Schumer shutdown continues to endanger Americans

@wallstreetcappers

 To a degree.  The difference is that some folks are more apt to reevaluate their positions with new information; others refuse to do, or simply are unable to do it.  
It may be just because they are not critical thinkers, therefore, they are overly reliant on non-neutral sources.  
But for sure, some people are uneasily swayed and just dig in.  

Correct...having an opinion does not in it of itself mean one is accurate in their opinion...that opinion is just that, a personal opinion or belief, but if it ignores facts, legal realm or context then that opinion is faulty...you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but to argue or debate a point that lacks merit in terms of facts or legality serves no purpose....and often times, even when it is pointed out, one or both parties ignore those facts and continue voicing an unsupported opinion that is not based on legitimate findings....this is where delusion sets in and individuals try to reinforce there content with baseless metaphors or analogies that are not relevant to the topic, but they think supports their unfounded opinionated position...this is why there are so many spirited debates...

@wallstreetcappers

 You don't talk down?  

@jpot34

 We all do at times here....perception on the internet is tough because you do not get tone or voice infliction or gestures that can be had with regular face to face conversation, so you lose that aspect..something we all could improve upon, but we all do it in here....doesn't make it right, but some do like to point it out while doing the very same thing they are condemning others for.....but I get your point

I can feel the emotion 

@jpot34

Actually no I do not. There is a massive difference between calling someone partisan and calling them of lesser intelligence like Raiders did...no comparison at all.

Partisan means you allow a political position to impact your decisions and process actions in a way you might not otherwise just due to protecting a political affiliation. I call out partisan deflection and brush off. Raiders insulted someones intelligence and ability to think and interact, that the view members here have are lesser due to the political position they hold.

I get called partisan all the time and that is opinion which anyone is entitled to but I do not call someone what Raiders did above, I might hold a position stronger than some do but I have never demeaned and debased someone like Raiders did and that is one of the most putrid comments I have seen in a very long time yet some people actually thought what he said was something to support. THAT is a problem, calling someone partisan and taking a stance is not.

I think you have an issue with me because you break the rules and there is recourse so you get mad about that and fail to take responsibility when you do.

@kcblitzkrieg

 Maybe....it was one of the most disgusting message I have seen on here in a very long time. Condescending elite trashing of someone like that is not what I consider good content or conversation.

House republicans reject Senate unanimous bill to separately pay TSA agents and others except for ICE and CBP which have been funded by big ugly bill.  Finally, Trump agrees to do the right thing by paying TSA agents.  This is what democrats recommended weeks ago.  Instead Trump delay payments to make people suffer in order to push for unnecessary SAVE act and continue lawless behavior of ICE.  Republicans have done nothing to hold ICE accountable for making US less safe. 

@wallstreetcappers

 Actually no I do not. There is a massive difference between calling someone partisan and calling them of lesser intelligence like Raiders did...no comparison at all.

At no point did I talk about anyone's intelligence.

I simply pointed out some folks are hardheaded and/or do not critically examine the topic.  Because they do not want to get away from what they want to believe.

This has absolutely nothing to do with their intelligence.

You see this very, very often with college-degreed folks that are in debates, but when confronted with facts that are contradictory to their argument -- they refuse to believe them.

For example, the lady that was on the other day that stated that the women being afraid of guys in general had nothing to do with the guy's comparison about race-on-race crime.

When shown the actual statistics, she then tried to deflect and would never concede the actual point.

She was very intelligent; but just hard-headed.

You can easily concede a point that you are wrong about and still hold an overall position; you just cannot ignore it altogether or still use it to back your position up.

Intelligence and hard-headed, or narrative-driven are not necessarily synonymous at all.

@wallstreetcappers

 I might hold a position stronger than some do but I have never demeaned and debased someone like Raiders did and that is one of the most putrid comments I have seen in a very long time yet some people actually thought what he said was something to support.

No way was it putrid at all.

It is simple facts.  When a person did not reason out a position or idea and are shown absolute facts that refute it, yet they still refuse to change their mind -- then reason and logic was not the reason for them having the position at all.

This is just someone (intelligent or not) that wants a position to be correct no matter what.

I feel pretty safe.....it may be different in other areas of course, but where I am I feel safe as can be and I am in the minority in my area by a considerable amount...ICE was in our area and no real major issues...they did pick up some some targeted illegals for various heinous crimes and took them out of our area.... 

 

77% latino

12-14% white

6-7% asian

and the rest is mixed 

 

If you mean big ugly bill as being the OBBBA, it will save a lot of Americans money when they factor in the savings in regards to overtime and tips....we pay about 5-6 million in overtime or so per year to employees and just under a million in tips, so that will be a considerable savings to those who file their taxes....not too shabby, but it is hard to track out here in California since our overtime is daily and weekly, as opposed to federal which is weekly....but, we are doing it....that's a nice little kickback for those who work a lot of overtime or work on tips....not sure how anyone could knock that....  

@Raiders22

 In here, you don't have to say it for it to be perceived a certain way....you know this....this is how others wish to project and spin replies as to paint the narrative or picture they wish to be seen...imagine in the real world having to fight two battles....the one in reality that was actually said or done and the other in a made up or make believe world that never happened....willfully obtuse comes to mind or bad faith interpreter.....This is done intentionally most of the time....I've seen it in the workplace too many times...it's called cognitive bias/distortion and it is a behavioral trait, and not a very good one, but people live by this trait... 

@Raiders22

 You can deflect and rationalize all you like I do not like your condescending elitist slant and that post was brutal. You wrote those words and you can either choose to own them and just move on acting like what you WROTE was with a different intent but it wont change what you said.  I already know you are condescending and for whatever reason in your real life you tell people what to do and they do it but that does not work here. I will give you credit though that unlike some members here that will deflect via saying someone is WORSE or deserving of the crappy message you did not go that route rather you tried to smooth it over with clarification and that still does not change what you posted.

@wallstreetcappers

  You can deflect and rationalize all you like I do not like your condescending elitist slant and that post was brutal.

That was not deflecting.  That was clearing what I said up.

It is not 'elitist' or 'condescending' -- it is just what it is.

What would you call it when someone is presented with evidence that they are wrong and they still stick to it?

@wallstreetcappers

 I already know you are condescending and for whatever reason in your real life you tell people what to do and they do it but that does not work here.

This is incorrect. It is just your opinion because you do not like it being straightforward.

I am never condescending, disparaging.  Nor do I name-call folks on here.

Plenty of this is done on here; just not by me.

Wrong is condescending because what YOU think is wrong and what your pocket experts think is wrong can be refuted or challenged by some other source. For you to make things WRONG when it is usually a differing opinion IS elitist and condescending. Nobody here falls into the slimy descript you said above, nobody fits the definition and it was lousy of you to write that and even worse for you to say stuff in response as you have above. IT IS WHAT IT IS means you have your opinion and they are not entitled to theirs, who says blanket comments about someone having an opinion or view?

I dont mind challenging actual content or an item but you debasing a person for having a different view or standing firm to their viewpoint is pretty much the worst and below the belt crap someone can use to elevate themselves. Trump debases and insults people all the time as if that makes him right or better, well it does not it just makes you look childish and closed minded.

@wallstreetcappers

 Wrong is condescending because what YOU think is wrong and what your pocket experts

No it is not.  That is not right at all.  

Saying someone is wrong because the facts prove them wrong is not condescending.

It is not condescending to point that out to folks.  Of course, you should do it in a nice manner unless they just keep digging in.

Then it may seem that way to the person that is wrong.  But why should it feel that way when all you are doing is saying their whole premise is based on bad facts.

@wallstreetcappers

 For you to make things WRONG when it is usually a differing opinion IS elitist and condescending.

Not sure what this has to do with anything.  

I am referring to when folks did not use logic and facts to reach their conclusion.

This is NOT a matter of differing opinions then.  

@wallstreetcappers

 I dont mind challenging actual content or an item but you debasing a person for having a different view

Yep.  I agree.  Like I said, I never debase anyone for having a different view.  If their view is not based on facts and I point out the facts -- that is not debasement.

As, I have pointed out to you before with the direct quotes, you actually do this by calling people names and calling their postings derogatory terms.

To me that is more of a condescending attitude or downright debasement.

I never do that because I think it weakens your point and you, more or less, have lost the argument when you have to resort to those things.

If someone can stick to facts to make their point they do not have to argue that way.

No name-calling or insulting should ever be necessary. 

It usually just means they are frustrated while trying to make their point.

I use name calling to cope with the stupidity (not because I feel like I am losing an argument) - like people that still like Trump and defend what he is doing - they are objectively speaking idiots or was raped as a child or something along those lines - you can’t have that world view and view on fellow humanbeings (both foreigners, women, gays etc.) unless there are something seriously wrong with you ! And it helps me cope with that fact if I keep making a clear distinction they are not like me 

@Raiders22

 I hoping your reference to hardheadedness is directed to the fans of additional facts and alternative information ! ….You know the party that has the majority in government but blames the minority for not passing legislation!    Yes that hardheaded group!

@joe pockets

 

Yessir.  I do not think either party has a lock on ignoring facts.

I was referring to the 80/20 issues that he was talking about.  Most of the stances on those issues are backed up by emotions rather than facts.

But you are correct that both sides certainly use 'alternative' facts. 

I would say that the majority not being able to simply 'force' through legislation is a bit more nuanced than that.

But I agree that both sides have a fair share of hardheadedness. 

@joe pockets

That would be the same party who supports, enables and defends the racist/rapist/fascist/convicted felon and his MAGA accomplices...

 

 

Well put, & backed up in this forum. Case in point......the Biden admin. allowed millions of unvetted people to enter our country, & did nothing to stop the rush of other illegals entering at points other than crossings. This is a fact. But some people want to deny it, & yet others seem to think it was OK to let it happen. These same people whine about ICE arresting/deporting people that are here illegally, even the ones with a violent history, yet don't say a word about the innocent Americans that were killed by these illegals. They make excuses, saying you're more likely to be harmed by an "American citizen" than an illegal. Great.....tell that to the people that have died at the hands of illegals. These same people want to do away with ICE, Border Patrol, Police, etc. What could possibly lead someone to think that way? Hate America & Americans? Or is it just that their hate for Trump is so strong that it clouds any sense of logic?