Religion??? WTF

spoon-

Interesting that you and MrGlue answered differently.  Would be happy to discuss further if you can get your post to work.  I don't claim to know what is what....I have a lot more questions then answers.  But that's how you learn. 

Glue-

Then on what basis or criteria does God decide if He loves something?

Anyway, I'm unsure of how extensive your background in Descartes' philosophy is so please do not think less of me if I am not able to keep up but I will attempt to defend my understanding of what he meant to the best of my ability.

When you say that you do not have an idea of a perfect entity in your mind, I admit also that I do not. Only upon reading this text did I informally decide that I would more aptly name myself an agnostic rather than an atheist. If you want to refute the beliefs of a Judeo-Christian god, then I am not interested. This isn't the god that Descartes was talking about, at least as far as I understand and have been lead to believe. Back to the point, the idea of a perfect being, the characteristics that he refers to directly in his text are that of a sovereign, eternal, infinite, unchangeable, all-knowing, all-powerful and universal creator of things. Which of this do you have a problem buying into? Perhaps it is the meaning of perfect that is the problem here. God is perfect, according to Descartes, in that god is independent, complete and infinite in his being. He does not live an existence that is broken down into an infinite number of instances independent of each other as we do. He simply is. Basically, living infinity, which is impossible for us to understand fully but I think you will be able to distinguish a difference between our existence, a finite one, and that of an infinite existence.

As far as the problem of an imperfect being coming up with a perfect one, I think he comes to this by negation of his own being,. He realizes that his existence is dependent, limited, finite and incomplete; the opposite of this obviously being independent, unlimited, infinite and complete. You are correct in that, it is simply an idea however in the text he says that an effect cannot come with a cause and thus imperfection must come from perfection. Please bear in mind that I am not Descartes nor am I an expert on this, but merely am attempting to share my understanding. I think this belief that perfection being the cause and imperfection being the effect works in that, if you have 9 out of 10 parts you cannot simply come up with the last part but if you have 10 out of 10 parts, you can take away x parts. Please correct me if my logic is flawed.

In regard to perfection being through the eyes of the beholder, I disagree that everything is relative to perspective. There are things, such as virtues, that transcend language and are understood by every human, regardless of nomenclature or whatever else. I apologize if I did not address everything, I tried, but obviously there is a lot to respond to.

Hopefully that came out okay, I had to retype what I wrote in word into the message box for whatever reason.

I'm not going to bother reading all the posts as half are just gibberish.

God, in the Judeo-Christian context, probably doesn't have to decide on anything. Being infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent... all things are known to him... his will is manifest.

Meaning to say, "God" doesn't have another basis or criteria to refer to. He IS the basis and criteria.

As far as "love" goes, God doesn't shine his love around like a spotlight, picking and choosing, who to shine it on. His love would be the source of all love in the universe. Humans either step out into it or hide behind something else.

Now isnt this interesting.....  By reading the author of this topics post it is obvious you are one bitter SOB.  I would bet any amount of money that your job sucks, you have no wife/girfriend, your broke, alone, miserable.  You had terrible parents who you still hate.  Your horrific circumstances in life have lead you to be bitter towards God. (capitalized by the way....)  So bitter towards God that you have decided He doesnt exist.  I just would like to warn you my friend, cursing God only brings more misery to your life.  Embracing him will only bring more happiness.  I am no perfect Christian but have you ever heard of someone becoming a big time believer and yet there life is still miserable and hopeless?  No you dont ever hear stories like that because when you have God in your life it is better.  By the way, you even admitted you could see how someone would use the rationalization of the "Big Bang" THEORY having to have a creator?  Point freaking proven....  Look at the universe, think of the complexities of human emotions, thoughts.  How did religion (much less various ones all across the world that had no interaction) come about if there was no higher being?  Get a grip.  The must infuriating part of this authors ignorance is the fact that you are incredibly bitter towards believers.  You can be an atheistic, broke, lonely, miserable bastard if you want to but dont hate those of us who have found happiness through GOD!

First off, if God is man then he is not God.....  Secondly, assuming God is real would he make it so easy to believe in him?  Why should we live in a perfect Utopia?  That would not challenge anyone.  Everyone would believe in God if everything was perfect.  Not to mention without pain and suffering, there is no such thing as joy and elation.  There are some very good books that address the notion of pain and misery in the world.  You should read them and educate yourself before you make the most important decision you will make here on earth: to believe or not to believe in the creator of our universe.

Raiderpug
Your logic is that of an infant... If you want to have a productive argument at least make some sense and quit acting like a toddler in a toy store.  If you could say GOD strike me Dead and he would instantly do it EVERYONE would believe.  You have to think that IF THERE IS A GOD it would be SIGNIFICANT MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT DONT YOU THINK!

 "everything magically happened and we don't have any clue on what kind of energy that wasn't around yet, was able to create it's self out of nothing(yeah, this is against the laws of energy but just go with it) and then make everything perfect, physics, nervous systems, elements in perfect balance, DNA, reporduction the works"

-Science

 

right on boberts,,,,,this fucking world would be a hell of a lot better if we got rid of that science nonsense and just relied on the power of prayer !!!!!!! 

 

 you don't have children, do you? i do, i find the miracle of life to be impressive

wow that has nothing to do with what i said, if your going to quote me can your response be based off what the argument is? i guess in mis-reading this post you also misread my previous post where i talk about taking people going to doctors as well as praying for them, hurray lets all have a discussion where no one reads all of the posts so we can just go over the same thing again and again that sounds productive

Again, peoples problems arise from there ambitions in this mortal world........again, GOD never promised to save our bodies from a physical death........GOD promised to save our souls.....

Lets look at the big bang theory.......

There must be a creator for the most fundamental pieces that resulted in the big bang......

I wonder who created that........

That is the word of God......

U either choose to believe or u dont........Its as simple as that......

Happy to those who believe but do not see.........

I am a Christian and unapologetic about it, but that is a personal thing, and I don't judge, nor try and press upon anyone my beliefs! We all have the freedom to make the decision whether or not to subscribe to  religion. I am a Christian and do my best to live that life! Im not walking on water by no means, but I have been in a plethora of very bad car accidents, and I hit a car head on going about 50 mph on a motorcycle, and other bad accidents with racing go-carts etcetera, and I personally think my faith was and is the single most instrumental reason I am here today, among many other things! In my humble opinion it takes more faith to believe that all of us and the awesome majesty of nature was caused by a random event rather than a creator! Im just giving a little of my view and in no way am I trying to contradict your view in any way!  I respect everyone and their beliefs and opinions b/c its their's to have, and have the absolute RIGHT to believe how they choose to believe! I think an answer may lie in the definition of "religion" VS faith, or Christian!, IMO, if so many so called, "believers", especially the people on TV always asking for money for a prayer cloth or something else is laughable and give the true and genuine believers a bad wrap! I do live the Golden Rule ," Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"! For instance you wouldnt want anyone lying or stealing from you, so one shouldnt look to do that to someone else! JUst a thought! BOL this weekend Mwhit and have a great day! PG 

read whats so great about christianity by dinesh dsouza. of course he doesnt prove you wrong because he wasnt there. but i started really paying attention to this shit and everything you read from these weirdo atheist scientists like yourself is they started believing the way they do when they were 5 yrs old. and it was because they didnt want to be held accountable, not because of some brilliant discovery they made. an unperfect world is explained by freedom of choice. gods not gonna frequent the world like you when you play with your dolls. we are responsible what happens here. evolution is also easily matched perfectly with design. the arguement there was nothing before time, and that it was started by a superior being are equal. 

but then theres jesus. the odds that any person could do what jesus did is a 1 with a trillion 0's after it. thats not from a christian group. its from a college economics class.

i know youre mad that god can see you playin with your lil winkie. but get over it. theres more facts supporting a higher being than not. you have a feeling theres no god. you have no evidence.

ok im ready to get crushed.

no wait. one more thing i just pictured you with your pant leg roled up looking like the 40 year old virgin, riding your gay ass bike waiving your fist at all the people that pass you using up all of our fossil fuels.. hahahaha what a terd.

last thing, if there is no god, just enjoy it. dont go around stating your case. its pointless. its kinda like going into a bar, n telling everybody how healthy you are because you dont drink. just go hang out with your circle jerk crew, and dont worry about what the cool kids are doing. good luck. i dont think youre gonna change anybody, but ... whatever, good luck.

 

oh. i was 11 pages late joining in, n this is your only post ive read, but im gonna assume you already dusted em off. did i atleast help you out with the college economics findings? you dont have to answer, i dont think ill ever be in this thread again.

got it from a documentary about an atheist turned christian. its pretty good. basically comes down to if jesus rose from death everyone should be a christian. if not the entire religion will die.

its arguement is that if jesus' rising was a scam, then they wouldnt have had a bunch of skanks that nobody respected be the ones to find him missing. of course then he appeared in front of hundreds of witness the next day.