Posted:
#226
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Religion??? WTF
Posted:
#227
| When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
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Posted:
#228
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Posted:
#229
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Posted:
#230
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Posted:
#231
In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike you dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? You are okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
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Posted:
#233
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Cant u read?
People on here have said they dont believe in GOD cause they havent seen him........yet the same people have said they believe Aliens exist.......have they seen Aliens........?
Sounds hypocrtical doesnt it?
Both are delusional. Doesn't prove anything.
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Posted:
#234
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Alot of people here it sounds like do not believe in GOD as it is convinient for them and justification for there sinful life so they do not hope to face judgement one day.........
Why should we believe in something that was created by man?
Everyone is a sinner,everyone will be judged......
Judged by which god of which religion?
So let me get this straight, everyone comes on this earth, just enjoys there life, once its over, goes into a dark place for eternity?
We die and our body decays and then that's it. Sorry, if that is hard for you to except. That's why this life is so precious. What do you think happens? You go to heaven and sit around with everyone whose died and is lucky enough to have found the correct religion for eternity
Double WOW!
WOW,
Can't answer this simple question?
If they don't believe in Jesus, wouldn't that be a problem? I don't believe, according to your belief that they would go to heaven. So, my question again is, what if you were born in a Muslim country?
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Posted:
#236
Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Presidents:
Any reasonable person who reads the bible will recognize it as fiction. I am amazed how that people can believe what the bible says is true and will accept bronze age myths as facts. The bible was written by people who thought the Earth was flat. Why would any rational person believe in a talking snake, a 600 year old man that built a boat that housed at least two of every animal in the world. This would include 10 million species. That seems like a difficult task for a man of that age. These myths are corrosive to rational thought and science. There are people that believe that the dinosaurs existed with humans. These people watch the flinstons as if it was a documentary. Most Christians have not even read the entire bible. I have read the bible and I gets much worse than just these fairy tale stories. The bible promotes genocide, slavery, and rape. Many are quick to cherry pick the topics that they like but discard the ones that they do not... The bible says anyone collecting sticks on the sabbath shoud be stoned to death.
The worst is these ignorant and delusional people believe they can force their irrational views on others. I can't even buy beer on Sundays where I live because these people have contaminated the laws in my state with their nonsence.
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Posted:
#237
Quote Originally Posted by Raiderpug:
THX George!
THX George!
You couldn't have just posted this?......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo
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Posted:
#238
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
Rapist......raped 89 people. Finds God the last day before he dies. He goes to heaven.
Girl has been sexually abused for 15 years. Doesn't believe in God but finds her life calling and cures cancer.
Rapist goes to heaven. Girl goes to hell.
That makes sense.
You say God makes the choice, but you also say you know on what parameters God makes the choice (or you wouldn't live your live a certain way).
There are two options: 1. You don't have any idea on what parameters God makes His choice but you think you do. Or 2. God decides no matter what we think.
Name me another option.
to be honest i think god makes the choice no matter what i dont see good people going to hell, only God can see what is in the heart, Hutch i honestly hope the chick that gets raped and cures cancer goes to heaven, i want everyone there, i dont see heaven as a gated community of people that got lucky and choice the right path person to call god
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Posted:
#240
Quote Originally Posted by boberts427:
to be honest i think god makes the choice no matter what i dont see good people going to hell, only God can see what is in the heart, Hutch i honestly hope the chick that gets raped and cures cancer goes to heaven, i want everyone there, i dont see heaven as a gated community of people that got lucky and choice the right path person to call god
On Sunday mornings, many would disagree with you-
Spread the word- 
Better yet-
Go Tell it on the Mountain-
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Posted:
#241
Each to there own, but when i walk outside, see the sun, sky, trees, mountains, oceans.............to me, i see GOD's creation.Only God can create that IMO.........
When i feel the love for my family, friends and neighbours, that echoes the love between GOD and myself.....
I believe, people who dont believe in GOd are lacking in love and are in a deep hole, it is easy in that case not to believe in him....
I pray that one day they do find him.......
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Posted:
#242
I do not claim to know much, however, I recently wrote a philosophy paper over Descartes's meaning of human will and human knowledge which, if anyone has read the meditations, goes into the existence of god to a large extent. I feel like an excerpt, which includes Descartes beliefs through my words, could possibly lend something to the discussion:
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Posted:
#243
Human
knowledge and human-will, or free-will,
through the eyes of Descartes, are the result of god’s creation of the
human
being—ironic perhaps that it is called so, as humans are finite and
never
actually are but instead are potential to be. And it is because of this
understanding of human knowledge as being something finite with the
capacity
for infinity, but yet unobtainable because of the incomplete nature of
human
existence, that it is evidence of the existence of god. If it is
considered
that, in finding one truth, the negation of that truth can be found
also; in
turn, leading to the conclusion that, if humans live a finite, limited
and
dependent existence but have knowledge of the infinite and aspirations
towards
perfection, in spite of it being an unachievable desire—god then must
live an
infinite, unlimited and independent existence. An existence in which he
simply
is and never struggles with understanding or limitation because he
exists
independent of everything else which lends him to possess an infinity of
knowledge and an infinity of free-will. With this considered, had god
chosen to
do so, humans could have been given these same qualities, those of
infinite
freewill as well as infinite knowledge. However, with infinite
knowledge, there
is not actually infinite free-will because, as explained earlier, the
more
knowledge that comes to be within a person, the more that it is required
to suppress
the desires of the free-will. Therefore, if knowledge were to be
infinite in
humans then they would possess no will at all since there would be no
choices
to make, as all of the answers would already be known. And if all of the
answers were already known to humans then there would be no ontological
question; even no philosophy. So then, because of god’s perfection, he
willed
human existence in a way that humans inherently search for knowledge and
thus
humans came to be philosophers; if only there weren’t so many deficient
in
understanding and allowing free-will to reign over their lives.
I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.
I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.
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Posted:
#244
Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Presidents:
Any reasonable person who reads the bible will recognize it as fiction. I am amazed how that people can believe what the bible says is true and will accept bronze age myths as facts. The bible was written by people who thought the Earth was flat. Why would any rational person believe in a talking snake, a 600 year old man that built a boat that housed at least two of every animal in the world. This would include 10 million species. That seems like a difficult task for a man of that age. These myths are corrosive to rational thought and science. There are people that believe that the dinosaurs existed with humans. These people watch the flinstons as if it was a documentary. Most Christians have not even read the entire bible. I have read the bible and I gets much worse than just these fairy tale stories. The bible promotes genocide, slavery, and rape. Many are quick to cherry pick the topics that they like but discard the ones that they do not... The bible says anyone collecting sticks on the sabbath shoud be stoned to death.
The worst is these ignorant and delusional people believe they can force their irrational views on others. I can't even buy beer on Sundays where I live because these people have contaminated the laws in my state with their nonsence.
Not trying to pick a fight DP... I see where you are coming from... but putting Science and Religion against each other is causing man tons of problems. Science is knowledge with no morals. Religion is morals with no scientific basis. They are not in direct opposition to each other.
The only fight that science picks with religion is with "biblical literalists". People who interpret the bible literally make claims about the physical universe that SOME scientists believe can be proven false. You mentioned some: a talking snake, a 600 year old man, a boat holding every species, etc...
Not all religious people interpret the bible literally.
Some interpret it as fables where the moral is the point, not the details.
Science came directly from religion. Trace scientific lineage back far enough and you'll find an ancestor that was part of the church.
There's a quote, I'm to lazy to look it up now but, the gist of it is:
Science focuses it's energy on worshiping the watch while religion focuses on worshiping the watch maker.
I think it's possible, and perfectly rational, to reconcile the scientific and religious perspectives.
Should we pray to God to fix our car? Probably not. We should probably use scientific method to find the problem, test hypothesis, and fix it.
However, while science gives us plenty of information about the physical universe it doesn't appear to give us much information as to HOW we should live while we are in it.
SOME religious perspectives do just that.
The old story about the priest who was asked to sum up the bible in one sentence, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
I'm not a "believer" but that's still pretty good moral advice.
Much of the argumentation in this thread is coming from contrasting the ancient laws of the bible with modern social laws. Particularly, American law. Most of those arguments make good points but when you look at the over all success of the American judicial system...
You can't help but wonder if we'd be better off with a little Old Testament "Eye for an Eye"...
I'm really just preaching "open minded / critical thinking". Whenever we jump on opposite sides of a coin, we just wind up yelling heads and tails at each other.
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Posted:
#245
Quote Originally Posted by spoondiggidy9:
Human knowledge and human-will, or free-will, through the eyes of Descartes, are the result of god’s creation of the human being—ironic perhaps that it is called so, as humans are finite and never actually are but instead are potential to be. And it is because of this understanding of human knowledge as being something finite with the capacity for infinity, but yet unobtainable because of the incomplete nature of human existence, that it is evidence of the existence of god. If it is considered that, in finding one truth, the negation of that truth can be found also; in turn, leading to the conclusion that, if humans live a finite, limited and dependent existence but have knowledge of the infinite and aspirations towards perfection, in spite of it being an unachievable desire—god then must live an infinite, unlimited and independent existence. An existence in which he simply is and never struggles with understanding or limitation because he exists independent of everything else which lends him to possess an infinity of knowledge and an infinity of free-will. With this considered, had god chosen to do so, humans could have been given these same qualities, those of infinite freewill as well as infinite knowledge. However, with infinite knowledge, there is not actually infinite free-will because, as explained earlier, the more knowledge that comes to be within a person, the more that it is required to suppress the desires of the free-will. Therefore, if knowledge were to be infinite in humans then they would possess no will at all since there would be no choices to make, as all of the answers would already be known. And if all of the answers were already known to humans then there would be no ontological question; even no philosophy. So then, because of god’s perfection, he willed human existence in a way that humans inherently search for knowledge and thus humans came to be philosophers; if only there weren’t so many deficient in understanding and allowing free-will to reign over their lives.
I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.
Human knowledge and human-will, or free-will, through the eyes of Descartes, are the result of god’s creation of the human being—ironic perhaps that it is called so, as humans are finite and never actually are but instead are potential to be. And it is because of this understanding of human knowledge as being something finite with the capacity for infinity, but yet unobtainable because of the incomplete nature of human existence, that it is evidence of the existence of god. If it is considered that, in finding one truth, the negation of that truth can be found also; in turn, leading to the conclusion that, if humans live a finite, limited and dependent existence but have knowledge of the infinite and aspirations towards perfection, in spite of it being an unachievable desire—god then must live an infinite, unlimited and independent existence. An existence in which he simply is and never struggles with understanding or limitation because he exists independent of everything else which lends him to possess an infinity of knowledge and an infinity of free-will. With this considered, had god chosen to do so, humans could have been given these same qualities, those of infinite freewill as well as infinite knowledge. However, with infinite knowledge, there is not actually infinite free-will because, as explained earlier, the more knowledge that comes to be within a person, the more that it is required to suppress the desires of the free-will. Therefore, if knowledge were to be infinite in humans then they would possess no will at all since there would be no choices to make, as all of the answers would already be known. And if all of the answers were already known to humans then there would be no ontological question; even no philosophy. So then, because of god’s perfection, he willed human existence in a way that humans inherently search for knowledge and thus humans came to be philosophers; if only there weren’t so many deficient in understanding and allowing free-will to reign over their lives.
I hope this can help lend something to the discussion.
Descartes examined himself further, and he found that he had in his mind the notion of a 'perfect being'. From this, he concluded that god must exist, in the following way:
1. I exist (Axiom)
2. I have in my mind the notion of a perfect being (Axiom, partly based on 1)
3. An imperfect being, like myself, cannot think up the notion of a perfect being (Axiom)
4. Therefore the notion of a perfect being must have originated from the perfect being himself (from 2 & 3)
5. A perfect being would not be perfect if it did not exist (Axiom)
6. Therefore a perfect being must exist (from 4 & 5)
But is this valid reasoning? Should this argument convince us that there is a god? I will now point out the weak spots in his reasoning.
I think we can all agree that point 1 is a valid axiom. We can all be sure that we at least exist. No problem there.
The second axiom however is not so obviously true. Maybe Descartes had an idea of the perfect entity in his mind, but I certainly don't have such an idea. What am I to believe? That God failed to put that idea into my mind, or that Descartes' idea of this perfect being was not as innate as he thought? It is obvious that not all of us have this idea. In fact, many Christians have told me that mankind cannot conceive God. This is in direct contradiction with Descartes' belief that everybody has this idea of a perfect being from birth on.
The third axiom is weaker still. Descartes postulates that an imperfect being can never think up the notion of a perfect being. But can we accept this as truth? Why would this be impossible? The imperfect being does not have to understand or contain the perfect being, it only has to think up the notion 'perfect being'. If an imperfect being can have an idea of a perfect being, why couldn't he think it up? And if we say that an imperfect being can not think up the notion of a perfect being, can we be sure that an imperfect being could recognize the notion of a perfect being? Maybe the notion Descartes had was in fact of an imperfect being, but seemed perfect to the imperfect mind of the imperfect Descartes.
Not only that, but who or what can define the notion 'perfect'? Many philosophers have argued that good and evil do not exist objectively, but are in the mind of the beholder; since a perfect being must be ultimately good, the definition of a perfect being is also in the mind of the beholder. If the imagined God differs from person to person, must we then say that there are as many Gods as there are people? A counter-argument could be that the notions of Him God has placed on us are not perfect, and thus we can differ in opinion about evil, good and God. But in this case, we wouldn't have the idea of a perfect being, but of an almost perfect being, and Descartes entire argument breaks down.
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Posted:
#247
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
Another question to ponder: Let's say you believe in God. Are certain actions on your part (let's say volunteering at a food kitchen....or a nursing home....or mowing your neighbors lawn) considered pious because God loves them. Or does He love those actions because they are pious?
In the dogma of certain Judeo-Christian religions...
Actions are considered pious because God loves them.
In those type of belief systems, God is the highest moral order.
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Posted:
#248
[Quote: Originally Posted by
HutchEmAll]
Another
question to ponder: Let's say you believe in God. Are certain
actions on your part (let's say volunteering at a food kitchen....or a
nursing
home....or mowing your neighbors lawn) considered pious because God
loves them.
Or does He love those actions because they are pious?
God would love them because they are pious.
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Posted:
#250
spoon-
Interesting that you and MrGlue answered differently. Would be happy to discuss further if you can get your post to work. I don't claim to know what is what....I have a lot more questions then answers. But that's how you learn.
Glue-
Then on what basis or criteria does God decide if He loves something?
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