Posted:
#551
Correction: Part 1 of 23
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Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity
Posted:
#553
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
i think i explained my view on the relevance of the term creation ina very simple way. i can't account for drake misinterpreting it.
however, i think i contributed to the disaster of a discussion led by rostos that dealt with faith when i said that i think everyone has faith. i was referring to the most basic (nonreligious) definition of faith, which is simply to have condifence in a person or thing. of course rostos took that in a religious context when i meant it in a way that contemplates the probabilities and cost/benefit analysis that is part of every decision. when i say i have faith, it's not blind faith in the airplane pilot and maintenance crew. it's confidence based on the probabilities of safe air travel based on my knowledge and past experince.
in these threads, i shouldn't underestimate these guys' tendencies to confuse meanings and pretend they support their positions.
Its even worse than that.
They literally cant / wont even attempt to address the points we make. Im happy when they at least "misinterpret" - at least the tried to interpret in the first place! Look at SJD - in the midst of a 20 part cut and paste that nobody will read. He probably hasnt read it.
But it keeps him from thinking. Anything to not actually think for yourself. Ignore, deflect, get back to the script.
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Posted:
#554
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
You must acknowledge the fact that human existence may entirely be meaningless. After all, what evidence do we have that there needs to be a meaning?
You must acknowledge the fact that human existence may entirely be meaningless. After all, what evidence do we have that there needs to be a meaning?
They wont acknowledge this because they wont acknowledge anything.
He has just announced his cut and paste is 23 posts long instead of 20.
I am taking the approach that if someone comes here (like the original poster intended, but bailed when things got tough) and wants to debate this stuff intelligently - I will be here. But I cant participate in a thread like this anymore. After 23 pages it is perfectly clear that there is no intelligent thought process on the other side here - so I will wait until there is actually an opponent.
Playing tennis by yourself might be fun for a couple of serves, but it gets really old quickly.
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Posted:
#556
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
Oh look the biggest brightest accident has appeared...when vanzack speaks everyone listens...well maybe not everyone...lol
Congratulations on your most engaged post to date.
I assume in order to make this post, you actually had to read my username (I still assume you read none of my actual post), but at least that is a start.
Try reading some of the posts, and engaging in some discussion - instead of posting a cut and paste with 23 parts you mindless, thoughtless, moronic box.
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Posted:
#558
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
People with understanding control their anger; a hot temper shows great foolishness.---Proverbs 14:29
Praise the Lord Almighty!!
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
Praise Vanzack Almighty.
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Posted:
#562
What SJD is saying is correct
Have a think about it. If something is CREATED by someone or something, it has a purpose. No matter what it is, if it is created by someone it has a purpose.
If something came together by a pure accident (no mind behind it) and it happened as a result of a pure fluke, then yes, it has no purpose. The earth, sun, moon thererfore have ZERO purpose.
As we know, the universe has a beginning. Many thought the universe was eternal (it always existed), this is not the cse. The big bang happened.
The atheist has 2 problems with this. I have been through this before and i will say it again.
If the universe began to exist, then time, space and energy began to exist.
As i have stated, something cannot come from nothing in this realm that we live in.
Threrefore, the "thing" that caused the universe MUST be outside of space, time and matter. Our brain cannot comprehend anything outside our realm let alone ask for proof of it.
If you look at that argument alone, while it is not 100% proof for God, it creates a strong case for him and definitly puts the naturlist on the back foot as the naturist only believes in the physical world, can the physical world create itself out of nothing?
Furthermore, it amazes me that a person can believe that a random explosion can cause what we see now, that is order and design without a mind behind it.
Those 2 arguments i have put are not only 100% proof "that God did it" BUT, they are extremely strong. Furthermore, to believe the contrary, the person must be breaking some scientific conservation laws and rely on extreme odds that our heads cannot fathom.
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Posted:
#563
I love arguments that base their logic on false facts. A fact, by definition, MUST BE TRUE. The universe may have been created by the rubbing together of two other universes because we may live in a multiverse. Therefore, the claim that there was NOTHING before the big bang is already not 100% fact. Additionally, the initial singularity that became the big bang could have "always as existed." There's no reason why it couldn't have. It's a lot more plausible than an imaginary being that created all this shit. Remember, we are only human. We are bound by the concepts of time and space and beginning and end. These are human invented concepts. The fact that something simply "always was" is beyond our ability to comprehend, but that doesn't necessarily rule it out.
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Posted:
#564
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
I love arguments that base their logic on false facts. A fact, by definition, MUST BE TRUE. The universe may have been created by the rubbing together of two other universes because we may live in a multiverse. Therefore, the claim that there was NOTHING before the big bang is already not 100% fact. Additionally, the initial singularity that became the big bang could have "always as existed." There's no reason why it couldn't have. It's a lot more plausible than an imaginary being that created all this shit. Remember, we are only human. We are bound by the concepts of time and space and beginning and end. These are human invented concepts. The fact that something simply "always was" is beyond our ability to comprehend, but that doesn't necessarily rule it out.
I love arguments that base their logic on false facts. A fact, by definition, MUST BE TRUE. The universe may have been created by the rubbing together of two other universes because we may live in a multiverse. Therefore, the claim that there was NOTHING before the big bang is already not 100% fact. Additionally, the initial singularity that became the big bang could have "always as existed." There's no reason why it couldn't have. It's a lot more plausible than an imaginary being that created all this shit. Remember, we are only human. We are bound by the concepts of time and space and beginning and end. These are human invented concepts. The fact that something simply "always was" is beyond our ability to comprehend, but that doesn't necessarily rule it out.
Multiverse is only a theory, we have no proof of that as you say. yes, it obviously did come from singularity, but where did the energy in the single point come from? Could this be God's way of putting energy in a single point and letting it explode with the "debris" being arranged by his will to what we call the universe?
We are bound by space and time, i refuse to believe space and time created itself out of nothing. Something beyond space and time had to have created it, unless you believe something can come from nothing in this realm that we live in. Remember, the atheist thinks and ONLY knows what is in this universe, therefore, they cannot accpet anything outside this. Yes, multiverse may exist, but one must ask, those other universes must have derived from somewhere. Again, something cannot come from nothing and we cant have an infite regress.
All this aside, i find it strange that a random explosion can result in the order and design we see. And that design and order just co-incidently and fittingly supports our life conviniently.
All that aside, we know this now cause of technology, therefore i think we dont need to look at this when looking at God's existence, it has to be something closer to each and one of us (in our hearts). I believe deep down we all know the truth.
Anyways, the reason why i think God constructed life the way we know it is for free will. If there was a cross in the sky, me thinks this free will is restricted. Its like a man that wants to speed, deep down he wants to break the speed limit, but because there is a cop watching, he wont do it. If he thinks no cop is watching, then he will most likely do it. Therefore, it is not free will in the purest form, when someone is watching.
It is the same with God, he doesnt show himself to us in the traditional sense because then it really isnt free will.
If he puts a cross in the sky, then one would think someone doesnt have a choice to believe in him, they are forced to. he believes, a relationship by faith is the ultimate. Much like a married couple have the ultimate marriage when they have faith in each other. When this breaks, then there is no real relationship.
God wants us to have a relationship by faith where we choose to either go to him or reject him. Furthermore, where we either sin or not sin.
if he shows himself to us via a cross in the sky, the free will is restricted and people will be forced to do things under duress rather than love for God...
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Posted:
#565
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Multiverse is only a theory, we have no proof of that as you say. yes, it obviously did come from singularity, but where did the energy in the single point come from? Could this be God's way of putting energy in a single point and letting it explode with the "debris" being arranged by his will to what we call the universe?
We are bound by space and time, i refuse to believe space and time created itself out of nothing. Something beyond space and time had to have created it, unless you believe something can come from nothing in this realm that we live in. Remember, the atheist thinks and ONLY knows what is in this universe, therefore, they cannot accpet anything outside this. Yes, multiverse may exist, but one must ask, those other universes must have derived from somewhere. Again, something cannot come from nothing and we cant have an infite regress.
All this aside, i find it strange that a random explosion can result in the order and design we see. And that design and order just co-incidently and fittingly supports our life conviniently.
All that aside, we know this now cause of technology, therefore i think we dont need to look at this when looking at God's existence, it has to be something closer to each and one of us (in our hearts). I believe deep down we all know the truth.
Anyways, the reason why i think God constructed life the way we know it is for free will. If there was a cross in the sky, me thinks this free will is restricted. Its like a man that wants to speed, deep down he wants to break the speed limit, but because there is a cop watching, he wont do it. If he thinks no cop is watching, then he will most likely do it. Therefore, it is not free will in the purest form, when someone is watching.
It is the same with God, he doesnt show himself to us in the traditional sense because then it really isnt free will.
If he puts a cross in the sky, then one would think someone doesnt have a choice to believe in him, they are forced to. he believes, a relationship by faith is the ultimate. Much like a married couple have the ultimate marriage when they have faith in each other. When this breaks, then there is no real relationship.
God wants us to have a relationship by faith where we choose to either go to him or reject him. Furthermore, where we either sin or not sin.
if he shows himself to us via a cross in the sky, the free will is restricted and people will be forced to do things under duress rather than love for God...
Why, if their was such a thing as god, is it so important to him
Worship me, believe in me, love me....I am the greatest! like I've said in the past, sounds more like human characteristics to me
like I've said in the past, sounds more like human characteristics to meAnd you make no sense, didn't god supposedly talk to people? Isn't that the same as putting a cross in the sky
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Posted:
#567
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Thats easy.
God spoke to people in the traditional sense in the old testament. This was before Jesus' time. Once Jesus came to this earth that was the word.
God does continue to speak to us. But are we listening?
Once again, for at least the 100th time in this thread and others - you avoid the question.
Why dont you try to answer the simple question that has been asked 10 times in this thread, and ignored every time by you:
Why does god need worship? Why does he need constant praise? Is that the attributes of a being that is all knowing, all loving - to be so insecure as to need constant reassurance that he is loved? Worship me, believe in me, love me....I am the greatest! like I've said in the past, sounds more like human characteristics to me.
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Posted:
#568
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Once again, for at least the 100th time in this thread and others - you avoid the question.
Why dont you try to answer the simple question that has been asked 10 times in this thread, and ignored every time by you:
Why does god need worship? Why does he need constant praise? Is that the attributes of a being that is all knowing, all loving - to be so insecure as to need constant reassurance that he is loved? Worship me, believe in me, love me....I am the greatest! like I've said in the past, sounds more like human characteristics to me.
So you dont worship the creator of all life? The very one who created you?
If anyone or anything is worth worship, isnt it the one who created you and loves you?
Oh i suppose people prefer to worship gambling, money, girls etc instead.
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Posted:
#569
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
So you dont worship the creator of all life? The very one who created you?
If anyone or anything is worth worship, isnt it the one who created you and loves you?
Oh i suppose people prefer to worship gambling, money, girls etc instead.
That is not the question.
The question is NOT the motivation for US to worship HIM - it is the REQUIREMENT of HIM for US to worship HIM.
I expected you to totally avoid that question, which you did. Now, go read the original question again:
Why does god need worship? Why does he need constant praise? Is that the attributes of a being that is all knowing, all loving - to be so insecure as to need constant reassurance that he is loved? Worship me, believe in me, love me....I am the greatest! like I've said in the past, sounds more like human characteristics to me.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Posted:
#571
I dont see it as him demanding us to worship him. I see it as more the other way around. Our love for God is so great and exceeds any love we have for anything, that level of love is a form of worship in itself.
Dont think of the worship as a form of dictatorship demanding. Its the complete opposite.
Therefore the level of love and reciting prayer is a form of acknowledgement and therefore a form of worship.
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Posted:
#572
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
So you dont worship the creator of all life? The very one who created you?
If anyone or anything is worth worship, isnt it the one who created you and loves you?
Oh i suppose people prefer to worship gambling, money, girls etc instead.
now we're getting somewhere. i have nothing but respect for my creators and will do whatever i can for them- i.e. my parents. now, if i worshipped them, i'd guess they'd think i'm an idiot so that's probably not the right word, but there are plenty of other, more normal ways to show my appreciation.
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Posted:
#573
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
now we're getting somewhere. i have nothing but respect for my creators and will do whatever i can for them- i.e. my parents. now, if i worshipped them, i'd guess they'd think i'm an idiot so that's probably not the right word, but there are plenty of other, more normal ways to show my appreciation.
And how much greater is God than any human being..
Getting the pattern now
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Posted:
#574
I will go back to a quote from a friend of mine (born again gal). She was anti-premaritical sex.....but just ths same, her and her boyfriend were having sex while not married. And she got pregnant.
She looked me straight in the eye and said, "we think it's a gift from God."
More like a gift from her egg and his sperm.
Like Van said, what in the heck does an omnicient, all powerful God gain from worship by us?
So He says to the murderer, "because you believe in me for the last month of your life and you were truly sorry for killing that baby........and for that single reason, I give you everlasting life."
But he says to the skeptic who lives a good life giving to others....raising solid citizens, "you are condemned for the single reason you didn't believe in me even though you raised a good family....and donated your time and money to charities.....and was a pillar in your community."
Please tell me how this makes sense.
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