Posted:
#3251
What's so ironic is manuscripts have been found about Jesus's life. Gues who wrote and documented them? Atheists lol pagans, your brothers documented things that only support the Bible! Lol
If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
Posted:
#3252
The Bible is the Word of God VS the Apocrypha, the Qur’an, the Book of Mormon.
Continued...
Now consider the Quran - its author, Muhammad, performed no miracles to back up his message (even when he was asked to by his followers - Sura 17:91-95; 29:47-51).
Only in much later tradition (the Hadith) do any alleged miracles even show up and these are all quite fanciful (like Muhammad cutting the moon in half) and have zero reliable testimony to back them up.
Further, the Quran makes clear historical errors.
Muslims believe the Bible is inspired but with some errors from editing (Sura 2:136 as well as Suras 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23, 25). The question they cannot adequately answer is: "When was the Bible corrupted?"
If they say before 600 A.D. then how can the Quran admonish believers to read it? If they claim it was after 600 A.D., then they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, for we have absolutely no doubt as to the accuracy of biblical manuscripts from at least the 3rd century forward.
Even if Christianity were false, the Quran still has an insurmountable problem because it makes judgments against Christians for believing things that they do not (nor have they ever) believed.
For example, the Quran teaches that Christians believe the Trinity is the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Sura 5:73-75, 116), and the Quran also teaches that Christians believe that God had sex with Mary to have a son (Suras 2:116; 6:100-101; 10:68; 16:57; 19:35; 23:91; 37:149-151; 43:16-19).
If the Quran is really from God, then it should at least be able to accurately report what Christians believe.
Joseph Smith, the author of the Book of Mormon, tried to do some miracles such as prophecy (a test for a true prophet in Deuteronomy 18:21-22) but failed several times.
He foretold of Christ's second coming in History of the Church (HC) 2:382. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (about 1891). The second coming did not occur in 1891, and the Mormon Church does not claim that it did. Nor has it occurred since.
He also prophesied that several cities would be destroyed in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston were to be destroyed if they rejected the gospel according to Smith. Joseph Smith himself went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept his gospel, yet they have not been destroyed.
Another famous false prophecy of Joseph Smith was his "END OF ALL NATIONS" in D&C 87 concerning the rebellion of South Carolina in the war between the states. The South was supposed to call on Great Britain for aid, and as a result war would be poured out upon all nations; slaves would revolt; the inhabitants of the earth would mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations would result. The South finally did revolt in 1861, but the slaves did not rise up, war was not poured out upon all nations, there was no worldwide famine, plague, earthquake, etc., and there was no resulting "end of all nations."
The collection of writings that Protestants call the Apocrypha (hidden writings), Roman Catholics call the deuterocanonical (later or second canon) books. These books were written between 300 B.C. and 100 A.D., the Intertestamental Period between the inspired writings of God's Prophets in the Old Testament and those of the Apostles and their contemporaries in the New Testament.
These were "infallibly" accepted into the Bible by the Roman Catholic Church in 1546 at the Council of Trent. Now the Apocrypha would be covered under the evidence for the Bible if these writings were truly inspired - but evidence seems to indicate that they are not.
In the Bible we find prophets of God whose messages are ratified by miracles or prophecy that comes true, and whose message is immediately accepted by the people (Deut 31:26; Josh. 24:26; 1 Samuel 10:25; Daniel 9:2; Col. 4:16; 2 Peter 3:15-16). What we find in the apocrypha is just the opposite - no apocryphal book was written by a prophet.
None of these books were included in the Hebrew Scriptures. There is no ratification of the authors of any apocryphal book. No apocryphal book is cited as authoritative by later Biblical writers. There is no fulfilled prophecy in any apocryphal book. Finally, Jesus, who quoted from every section of Old Testament Scripture, never once quoted from the apocrypha. Neither did any of His disciples.
Conclusion
The Bible so far outshines every competing source for being God's revelation that if it is not God's Word, it would seem impossible to choose among the leftovers. If the Bible is not God's Word, then we have been left with no clear criteria by which to know what might be.
Posted:
#3253
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
Evidence of the bible, of course we know the bible exists. Books are everywhere.So, what are you guys asking precisely?
Evidence of the Bible...I gave it.
Evidence of God/Christ...I gave it.
Evidence of creation...I gave it.
Evidence of god? Where have you given it outside of pointing to the bible. Once again, we are not debating whether books, cities, or people exist.
Evidence of creation? I'm painting tonight as we speak. People create things everyday; problems, solutions, etc... what are you getting on about? And once again, don't point to the bible as your proof.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3254
Here is one of my favorites and there are so many lol, atheists documenting Jesus
Annals, xv. 44. Here is a pagan historian, hostile to Christianity, who had access to records about what happened to Jesus Christ. Mention of Jesus can also be found in Jewish Rabbinical writings from what is known as the Tannaitic period, between 70-200 A.D. In Sanhedrin 43a it says:
"Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, 'He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whoever has anything to say in his defence, let him come and declare it.' As nothing was brought forward in his defence, he was hanged on Passover Eve."
That there is any mention of Jesus at all is unususal. As far as the Roman world was concerned, Jesus was a nobody who live in an insignificant province, sentenced to death by a minor procurator.
Thanks for helping us Pagans! God Bless you and Merry Christ mas!
Here is to the billions that are celebrating!
That's right kids, Merry Christ mas to the billions that are celebrating!
When is atheist day?
Posted:
#3255
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
This is a complete value statement based on your own criteria. Where is the option for; and if there is no such thing as god then what the bible, and any other text which claims divine origin, is saying is total horseshit. Conclusion
The Bible so far outshines every competing source for being God's revelation that if it is not God's Word, it would seem impossible to choose among the leftovers. If the Bible is not God's Word, then we have been left with no clear criteria by which to know what might be.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3256
Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:
What's so ironic is manuscripts have been found about Jesus's life. Gues who wrote and documented them? Atheists lol pagans, your brothers documented things that only support the Bible! Lol
What's so ironic is manuscripts have been found about Jesus's life. Gues who wrote and documented them? Atheists lol pagans, your brothers documented things that only support the Bible! Lol
We are not debating that people lived, just some of their outlandish claims.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3257
Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:
Here is one of my favorites and there are so many lol, atheists documenting Jesus
Here is one of my favorites and there are so many lol, atheists documenting Jesus
Annals, xv. 44. Here is a pagan historian, hostile to Christianity, who had access to records about what happened to Jesus Christ. Mention of Jesus can also be found in Jewish Rabbinical writings from what is known as the Tannaitic period, between 70-200 A.D. In Sanhedrin 43a it says:
"Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, 'He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whoever has anything to say in his defence, let him come and declare it.' As nothing was brought forward in his defence, he was hanged on Passover Eve."
That there is any mention of Jesus at all is unususal. As far as the Roman world was concerned, Jesus was a nobody who live in an insignificant province, sentenced to death by a minor procurator.
Thanks for helping us Pagans! God Bless you and Merry Christ mas!
Here is to the billions that are celebrating!
That's right kids, Merry Christ mas to the billions that are celebrating!
When is atheist day?
Very true. Jesus existed. Thanks. We knew this. Where does it say he's god? Or the son of god? Which is it? I'm not sure.
Oh and...your final statement is proof you are a complete moron...having a holiday makes your religion valid...so I guess the existence of Ramadan validates Islam as true?
Posted:
#3258
Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:
See Matt4000, that's how closed off they are, 
They run from facts.
I am used to it. I have been talking to people like this for close to 18 years now.
What is funny is that I am actually close friends with a few of them, so I hear this kind of stuff all the time.
There are thousands of books of evidence out there.
But the truth is offensivestr...As I mentioned in this thread's begin somewhere, my mindset was just like theirs at one time. (I shared a little bit of my testimony).
People used to present compelling arguments, facts etc. to me and I still argued back and was convinced that I was right and that they were brainwashed. Nobody could of convinced me that Jesus was real and the only way to eternal life.
It took a deep personal encounter with God one on one in a jail cell one night, when I was very suicidal.
It was that night when I was so desperate, so lost, so confused and on death's doorstep, when God finally revealed himself to me.
And frankly I am CONVINCED, that no matter what we say or evidence that we present to anyone in here, it will NEVER change their minds or hearts.
The only thing that will, is when they have a one on one encounter with God HIMSELF!!!
Hopefully, they ALL will have that 1st encounter with Christ while they are still alive and not their 1st encounter with Him on Judgment Day.
Posted:
#3259
Because only christians have holidays... 
It never occured to this idiot that other peoples, cultures may have traditional festivals as well. I imagine the information of ancient pagan traditions being the source for his great, one and only holiday practice will be just as incomprehensible as well.
It never occured to this idiot that other peoples, cultures may have traditional festivals as well. I imagine the information of ancient pagan traditions being the source for his great, one and only holiday practice will be just as incomprehensible as well.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3264
Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:
Evidence of the bible, of course we know the bible exists. Books are everywhere.
Evidence of god? Where have you given it outside of pointing to the bible. Once again, we are not debating whether books, cities, or people exist.
Evidence of creation? I'm painting tonight as we speak. People create things everyday; problems, solutions, etc... what are you getting on about? And once again, don't point to the bible as your proof.
Evidence of the bible, of course we know the bible exists. Books are everywhere.
Evidence of god? Where have you given it outside of pointing to the bible. Once again, we are not debating whether books, cities, or people exist.
Evidence of creation? I'm painting tonight as we speak. People create things everyday; problems, solutions, etc... what are you getting on about? And once again, don't point to the bible as your proof.
I'm always hearing people say that there is no proof of Jesus outside the bible.
Well, the writings of the disciples weren't part of the bible when they were written.
In most cases, such as the letters of Luke (Gospel of Luke and Acts) and letters to the various churchs by Paul (1st and 2nd Corinthians, Galatians, etc...) were just that, letters.
These people weren't trying to write a book based on their beliefs, they wrote down what they witnessed as a letter.
It should also be known that Luke was a first-class historian and the rest of the disciples had nothing to gain by writing the accounts of Jesus and everything to lose.
All the writings didn't even become part of what we know as the bible today until a good thousand years later.
Posted:
#3265
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
I am used to it. I have been talking to people like this for close to 18 years now.
What is funny is that I am actually close friends with a few of them, so I hear this kind of stuff all the time.
There are thousands of books of evidence out there.
But the truth is offensivestr...As I mentioned in this thread's begin somewhere, my mindset was just like theirs at one time. (I shared a little bit of my testimony).
People used to present compelling arguments, facts etc. to me and I still argued back and was convinced that I was right and that they were brainwashed. Nobody could of convinced me that Jesus was real and the only way to eternal life.
It took a deep personal encounter with God one on one in a jail cell one night, when I was very suicidal.
It was that night when I was so desperate, so lost, so confused and on death's doorstep, when God finally revealed himself to me.
And frankly I am CONVINCED, that no matter what we say or evidence that we present to anyone in here, it will NEVER change their minds or hearts.
The only thing that will, is when they have a one on one encounter with God HIMSELF!!!
Hopefully, they ALL will have that 1st encounter with Christ while they are still alive and not their 1st encounter with Him on Judgment Day.
Funny how god visited you to let you know he was real, but he can't do that for the rest of us. If he comes and pays me a visit, I'll listen. Until then, fuck him lol
Posted:
#3266
You are blessed to have those experiences matt4000. I've experienced things in my life that confirm there is a God and even had an atheist nurse tell me it forever changed her outlook. That along with multiple doctors and neurologists saying there is no scientific answer for what my family experienced. They said thank God,
Atheists are closed off and won't experience those things. That's the sad thing but I'll sleep at night.
Posted:
#3268
Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:
Ahh, the appeal to emotion, sentiment. Sounds like a mental health issue to me. Not direct contact with a supernatural being.
"It took a deep personal encounter with God one on one in a jail cell one night, when I was very suicidal."
Ahh, the appeal to emotion, sentiment. Sounds like a mental health issue to me. Not direct contact with a supernatural being.
That so called "mental health" issue is an issue that everyone at one time or another goes through or will go through off and on throughout different periods of times in their lives.
Sadness, confusion, anger, despair, dealing with deaths of friends and family members, losing jobs, sufferings, addictions, bad habits that one can't overcome, loss of relationships (whether its friends or lovers), financial hardships etc.
For me, it wasn't a mental health issue. I have never had any type of mental problems.
I had reached a point in my life as a young man at age 18, where I lost my family and myself. (It a huge part of it was due to my atheistic beliefs).
I had no spiritual beliefs, no belief or fear of God or people....which led to coming up with my own belief systems and mindsets.
This of course gave me my own set of morals, which corrupted the way that I viewed religion, my fellow man, government and society as a whole.
Then, combine that with being abused for years by a friend of my family at the time, then losing my family, being a teen left on his own, drug use, then crime. This and much more led to hopeless and despair, then a long time in jail....but THANKFULLY LED ME TO JESUS!!!
Posted:
#3270
Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:
You are blessed to have those experiences matt4000. I've experienced things in my life that confirm there is a God and even had an atheist nurse tell me it forever changed her outlook. That along with multiple doctors and neurologists saying there is no scientific answer for what my family experienced. They said thank God,
You do not possess any outside power unavailable to I or any other human being. You do not possess any magical insight to the true nature of things over myself, or anyone else. Here is laid naked once again the conceit. Believe what you want. But when you claim you are better then the rest of us....You are blessed to have those experiences matt4000. I've experienced things in my life that confirm there is a God and even had an atheist nurse tell me it forever changed her outlook. That along with multiple doctors and neurologists saying there is no scientific answer for what my family experienced. They said thank God,
Atheists are closed off and won't experience those things. That's the sad thing but I'll sleep at night.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3271
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Funny how god visited you to let you know he was real, but he can't do that for the rest of us. If he comes and pays me a visit, I'll listen. Until then, fuck him lol
YOUR DAY WILL COME!
FUNNY THING IS, MOST OF THE TIME, GOD USES PEOPLE TO TRY TO VISIT YOU ALL THE TIME! (YOU JUST MIGHT NOT BE REALIZING THAT IT IS HIM TRYING TO TALK TO YOU...YET, BUT ONE DAY YOU WILL).
HE MAY BE USING ONE OF US OR ALL OF US FOR THAT MATTER...TO TRY TO REACH YOU...BUT YOU JUST AREN'T READY, OR DON'T WANT HIM OR YOUR HEART IS CLOSED OFF TO HIM...(I DON'T KNOW) NOR AM I ACTING LIKE I DO.
HE CAN USE ANYONE OR ANYTHING TO TRY TO GET YOUR ATTENTION, IN ORDER TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU.
YOU JUST HAVE TO BE OPEN MINDED, WANTING/DESIRING TO HAVE HIM IN YOUR LIFE AND SEEKING FOR HIM.
HE WON'T FORCE SOMEONE TO COME TO HIM, THAT DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM.
WOULD YOU WANT TO SPEND ETERNITY WITH SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T LIKE YOU? OR WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU? (NEITHER DOES HE. BUT THAT CRAZY PART, IS THAT HE STILL DESIRES FOR YOU TO ONE DAY CHOOSE HIM)!!!
HE SAYS IN HIS WORD (WHICH I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH), BUT HE SAYS IT ANYWAY...JEREMIAH 29:13 "IF YOU SEEK ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART, YOU WILL FIND ME"!!!
Posted:
#3272
Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:
For me, it wasn't a mental health issue. I have never had any type of mental problems.
That's called denial. Suicidal in a jail cell is a clear indication of mental health issues, and I am assuming probably drugs, and alcohol were contributing factors. Yeah, no mental health issues here. Seriously.
I'd rather be playing D&D.
Posted:
#3273
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Just watched the special on the universe on h2. Truly incredible stuff. I'm optimistic that before I die we will be able to disprove god as the creator of this universe. And although that doesn't rule one out altogether, it would be enough to convince me 100% that god doesn't exist. I am eager with anticipation.
Just watched the special on the universe on h2. Truly incredible stuff. I'm optimistic that before I die we will be able to disprove god as the creator of this universe. And although that doesn't rule one out altogether, it would be enough to convince me 100% that god doesn't exist. I am eager with anticipation.
Boy are you going to be terribly disappointed if Jesus returns before your optimism.
Posted:
#3275
Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:
Amen matt4000! God Bless u!
Amen matt4000! God Bless u!
GOD BLESS YOU TO BRO!!!
I AM OFF TO BED, SO THAT I AM NOT A TIRED MESS TOMORROW.
I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO VISIT.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO JAGERFURY AND KITTY KAT!!! TALK TO ALL YOU GUYS ANOTHER TIME!
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