Nearly all economists agree that immigration (legal or not) benefits overall economy. Contrary to fears among Americans, immigration reforms by Republican and Democrat Presidents are good for the economy.
So improving innovation and global exports would do more to fix U.S. economy than disrupting industries by deporting millions of illegal immigrants at tremendous cost.
I think people should discuss the specifics on how to make it work. Otherwise, nothing ever gets done.
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Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:
Nearly all economists agree that immigration (legal or not) benefits overall economy. Contrary to fears among Americans, immigration reforms by Republican and Democrat Presidents are good for the economy.
So improving innovation and global exports would do more to fix U.S. economy than disrupting industries by deporting millions of illegal immigrants at tremendous cost.
I think people should discuss the specifics on how to make it work. Otherwise, nothing ever gets done.
Statements like the above illustrate just how limited your grasp and understanding of the situation really is.
If only the world were as black and white as you eagerly paint it, I get why you do that, it makes being a nutjob extremist so much easier to justify...unfortunately for you, it is also the penultimate sign of limited intellect and reasoning abilities...
You are a rightwinger's long lost twin. Two peas in a pod. Way more in common than you would ever admit...
I missed your counter solution to his. How would you differentiate?
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Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:
Statements like the above illustrate just how limited your grasp and understanding of the situation really is.
If only the world were as black and white as you eagerly paint it, I get why you do that, it makes being a nutjob extremist so much easier to justify...unfortunately for you, it is also the penultimate sign of limited intellect and reasoning abilities...
You are a rightwinger's long lost twin. Two peas in a pod. Way more in common than you would ever admit...
I missed your counter solution to his. How would you differentiate?
Some of them are and that's why we need a screening process. Btw, the border doesn't close by itself for us to secure it so it has to be a cut-off point. Lets take care the ones that have been here forever and been staying out of troubles.
That's what we've been doing: taking care of them.
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Quote Originally Posted by bunny651:
Some of them are and that's why we need a screening process. Btw, the border doesn't close by itself for us to secure it so it has to be a cut-off point. Lets take care the ones that have been here forever and been staying out of troubles.
That's what we've been doing: taking care of them.
As I have said many times a renewal of some form of 'Operation ---back' ---or at least the threat of it. Coupled with more secure border and threats against those hiring illegals. I actually feel this solves a major portion of it. Even providing free trips 'home' to those coming forward if necessary. Once they realize they cannot work and will be prosecuted if caught, a lot will leave.
Of course, there could be some extenuating situations with family and whatnot. But they would have to wait a huge time to be legit.
There are very many deserving people that have been in a huge wait list. There Gould be some repercussions for being illegal at the least.
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Quote Originally Posted by bunny651:
I am interested in solution, not sound bites.
As I have said many times a renewal of some form of 'Operation ---back' ---or at least the threat of it. Coupled with more secure border and threats against those hiring illegals. I actually feel this solves a major portion of it. Even providing free trips 'home' to those coming forward if necessary. Once they realize they cannot work and will be prosecuted if caught, a lot will leave.
Of course, there could be some extenuating situations with family and whatnot. But they would have to wait a huge time to be legit.
There are very many deserving people that have been in a huge wait list. There Gould be some repercussions for being illegal at the least.
Don't know your stances as much as his. But there is more to it than 'socially liberal and fiscally conservative'. This is used as a copout to me. It is mostly a catchphrase. Just to be fiscally conservative doesn't make you anything more than someone with common sense. Libertarians actually have stances on lots of issues. They tend to be more to the right. Independents almost always lean left, and very hard.
What are your stances on other issues besides fiscal issues? And besides just saying socially liberal? That just is more of--- if it doesn't hurt anyone else, we could care less what you do, etc.
What issues would you like to know my feelings on?
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Don't know your stances as much as his. But there is more to it than 'socially liberal and fiscally conservative'. This is used as a copout to me. It is mostly a catchphrase. Just to be fiscally conservative doesn't make you anything more than someone with common sense. Libertarians actually have stances on lots of issues. They tend to be more to the right. Independents almost always lean left, and very hard.
What are your stances on other issues besides fiscal issues? And besides just saying socially liberal? That just is more of--- if it doesn't hurt anyone else, we could care less what you do, etc.
What issues would you like to know my feelings on?
I agree with you rick but what's the answer? As espy suggested self deportation? You believe these people are going to go back to where they came from? Where they have nothing. Sorry , will never happen so what will be the cost to deport them? Isn't the new game plan to at least give them a chance to become citizens? Be productive, integrate. At least this is something since for the last 40 years no one did anything.
I think tough laws that punish those that hire illegal aliens, and making it worse than Mexico for illegal workers would stop the flow fairly quickly, and reverse it in time.
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
I agree with you rick but what's the answer? As espy suggested self deportation? You believe these people are going to go back to where they came from? Where they have nothing. Sorry , will never happen so what will be the cost to deport them? Isn't the new game plan to at least give them a chance to become citizens? Be productive, integrate. At least this is something since for the last 40 years no one did anything.
I think tough laws that punish those that hire illegal aliens, and making it worse than Mexico for illegal workers would stop the flow fairly quickly, and reverse it in time.
1. secure borders 2. enact tough laws on people that employ illegals, and encourage them to apply for work visas. 3. start accepting applications for citizenship, or work visas with a clear set of criteria. 4. have a 1 year amnesty period while we get our shite together, and collect applications. 5. after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases, during these 2 years (unfortunately) the borders will be closed. The people that have come over illegally have effectively "skipped the line". Too bad I guess, but the extra capacity of all immigration offices will be needed to clear the 15 million cases in the 2 years allotted. IT should also be noted that the applicants will be given proof of application, so that their status is not "illegal". 6. (secretly) there will be an additional year planned for in case the cases are not completely cleared. (It is the govt. after all) 7. after this 3-4 year period we should have super strict laws against being an illegal. I know it is expensive to jail people in our country for being here illegally, but a few 5-10 year sentences should act as a deterrent. 8.I am really against mandatory sentencing, but there should be 5 years jail or $100K added to any crime or fine levied against an illegal after this.
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Hypothetically,
1. secure borders 2. enact tough laws on people that employ illegals, and encourage them to apply for work visas. 3. start accepting applications for citizenship, or work visas with a clear set of criteria. 4. have a 1 year amnesty period while we get our shite together, and collect applications. 5. after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases, during these 2 years (unfortunately) the borders will be closed. The people that have come over illegally have effectively "skipped the line". Too bad I guess, but the extra capacity of all immigration offices will be needed to clear the 15 million cases in the 2 years allotted. IT should also be noted that the applicants will be given proof of application, so that their status is not "illegal". 6. (secretly) there will be an additional year planned for in case the cases are not completely cleared. (It is the govt. after all) 7. after this 3-4 year period we should have super strict laws against being an illegal. I know it is expensive to jail people in our country for being here illegally, but a few 5-10 year sentences should act as a deterrent. 8.I am really against mandatory sentencing, but there should be 5 years jail or $100K added to any crime or fine levied against an illegal after this.
that's a good effort but even hypothetically, i'd say it would be easier to cure world hunger by developing a michine that could make it rain steaks and salads on demand in any area where people are hungry.
the one thing i'll change is this though:
after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2000 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases
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that's a good effort but even hypothetically, i'd say it would be easier to cure world hunger by developing a michine that could make it rain steaks and salads on demand in any area where people are hungry.
the one thing i'll change is this though:
after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2000 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases
The Southern border can never be made secure from the invasion of illegal aliens ...unless Mexico starts to cooperate and help prevent border crossings ..
This can be done by Mexico patrolling their side of the the border and not allowing people to come close to the U.S.-Mexico border region...
Notice any time you see footage of the US border control on the border ..you will not see a counterpart on the other side..that's because they are not there .. America apprehends hundreds of thousands of border crossers every year ..the number Mexico apprehends ?
I have never heard of any ..not one.
The incentive for Mexico to help secure the US-Mexico border ?
The reduction or elimination of foreign aid we give Mexico ( in the hundreds of millions) to stem the corruption and human rights violations, development assistance, economic assistance, child survival and health programs, and combating drug trafficking.
This step can be done as soon as the 114th Congress is seated in January ....
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The Southern border can never be made secure from the invasion of illegal aliens ...unless Mexico starts to cooperate and help prevent border crossings ..
This can be done by Mexico patrolling their side of the the border and not allowing people to come close to the U.S.-Mexico border region...
Notice any time you see footage of the US border control on the border ..you will not see a counterpart on the other side..that's because they are not there .. America apprehends hundreds of thousands of border crossers every year ..the number Mexico apprehends ?
I have never heard of any ..not one.
The incentive for Mexico to help secure the US-Mexico border ?
The reduction or elimination of foreign aid we give Mexico ( in the hundreds of millions) to stem the corruption and human rights violations, development assistance, economic assistance, child survival and health programs, and combating drug trafficking.
This step can be done as soon as the 114th Congress is seated in January ....
You don't need a food machine .you only need shmoos ....
They are incredibly prolific, multiplying exponentially faster than rabbits...Shmoos are delicious to eat, and are eager to be eaten. If a human looks at one hungrily, it will happily immolate itself .. either by jumping into a broiling pan, after which they taste like steak.
They also produce eggs ,milk (bottled, grade-A), and butter...and they have no bones, so there's absolutely no waste
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You don't need a food machine .you only need shmoos ....
They are incredibly prolific, multiplying exponentially faster than rabbits...Shmoos are delicious to eat, and are eager to be eaten. If a human looks at one hungrily, it will happily immolate itself .. either by jumping into a broiling pan, after which they taste like steak.
They also produce eggs ,milk (bottled, grade-A), and butter...and they have no bones, so there's absolutely no waste
The real story here is,,that the Chinese have become more capitalistic..
China is less regulated and freer whereas the United States is becoming more and more regulated and controlled...
America is losing it's FREEEEEDDDDDDDOMMM.
While China is gaining theirs..
China is building a new coal power plant every week. The US is forcing coal power plants to close..The new EPA regulations when they go into effect will increase the cost of everything in the US ....
Obama last month inked a deal with China to limit carbon emissions ..so the Chinese are sticking it to us with Obama's UN Climate Change deal.. another deal that was made without Congressional approval....More executive overreach from President Barack Hussein Obama.
The U.S. commits to cutting carbon emissions......... China agrees to nothing more than capping its emissions at 2030 levels. ...lol
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
The real story here is,,that the Chinese have become more capitalistic..
China is less regulated and freer whereas the United States is becoming more and more regulated and controlled...
America is losing it's FREEEEEDDDDDDDOMMM.
While China is gaining theirs..
China is building a new coal power plant every week. The US is forcing coal power plants to close..The new EPA regulations when they go into effect will increase the cost of everything in the US ....
Obama last month inked a deal with China to limit carbon emissions ..so the Chinese are sticking it to us with Obama's UN Climate Change deal.. another deal that was made without Congressional approval....More executive overreach from President Barack Hussein Obama.
The U.S. commits to cutting carbon emissions......... China agrees to nothing more than capping its emissions at 2030 levels. ...lol
All good stuff. But how do you convince the American people to get on board?
They tell me the hardest part about getting into US from Central America, is getting into Mexico from the south. They don't have a need to guard their northern border---nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently.
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Rick and Slim----
All good stuff. But how do you convince the American people to get on board?
They tell me the hardest part about getting into US from Central America, is getting into Mexico from the south. They don't have a need to guard their northern border---nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently.
All good stuff. But how do you convince the American people to get on board?
They tell me the hardest part about getting into US from Central America, is getting into Mexico from the south. They don't have a need to guard their northern border---nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently.
"-nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently".
...... isn't that the truth...lol
Whats needed is a leader....a Commander-in Chief who gives it a priority with federal support and not a leader that encourages illegal immigration..A leader like Hoover ("repatriation"campaign) Truman (after the war,, deportation to create jobs for returning vets)..and like Ike ('Operation ***back' )..
From the above presidential models of dealing with illegal aliens in this country more that 10 illegals self deported,,..for every illegal deported ...
Maybe we should consider a moratorium on all immigration into this country ...40% of undocumented workers in the United States are foreigners who came legally mostly through visas but have overstayed the length of the visas or overstayed their legal residence here.....till we can come up with away to keep track of these people and make sure they do not overstay and that they return to their home country ..no visas...
Now if they could deport the illegal's back then - we could do it today...all it will take is leadership..
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Rick and Slim----
All good stuff. But how do you convince the American people to get on board?
They tell me the hardest part about getting into US from Central America, is getting into Mexico from the south. They don't have a need to guard their northern border---nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently.
"-nobody is trying to get into Mexico from the North. Except gun runners apparently".
...... isn't that the truth...lol
Whats needed is a leader....a Commander-in Chief who gives it a priority with federal support and not a leader that encourages illegal immigration..A leader like Hoover ("repatriation"campaign) Truman (after the war,, deportation to create jobs for returning vets)..and like Ike ('Operation ***back' )..
From the above presidential models of dealing with illegal aliens in this country more that 10 illegals self deported,,..for every illegal deported ...
Maybe we should consider a moratorium on all immigration into this country ...40% of undocumented workers in the United States are foreigners who came legally mostly through visas but have overstayed the length of the visas or overstayed their legal residence here.....till we can come up with away to keep track of these people and make sure they do not overstay and that they return to their home country ..no visas...
Now if they could deport the illegal's back then - we could do it today...all it will take is leadership..
1. secure borders 2. enact tough laws on people that employ illegals, and encourage them to apply for work visas. 3. start accepting applications for citizenship, or work visas with a clear set of criteria. 4. have a 1 year amnesty period while we get our shite together, and collect applications. 5. after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases, during these 2 years (unfortunately) the borders will be closed. The people that have come over illegally have effectively "skipped the line". Too bad I guess, but the extra capacity of all immigration offices will be needed to clear the 15 million cases in the 2 years allotted. IT should also be noted that the applicants will be given proof of application, so that their status is not "illegal". 6. (secretly) there will be an additional year planned for in case the cases are not completely cleared. (It is the govt. after all) 7. after this 3-4 year period we should have super strict laws against being an illegal. I know it is expensive to jail people in our country for being here illegally, but a few 5-10 year sentences should act as a deterrent. 8.I am really against mandatory sentencing, but there should be 5 years jail or $100K added to any crime or fine levied against an illegal after this.
I like some of your ideas and it would be a start except the mandatory sentencing part. I am just not too keen on footing the bill. Demand creates supply and usually not the other way around and it's much cheaper to jail a couple than 50 of them(one company for example).
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Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
Hypothetically,
1. secure borders 2. enact tough laws on people that employ illegals, and encourage them to apply for work visas. 3. start accepting applications for citizenship, or work visas with a clear set of criteria. 4. have a 1 year amnesty period while we get our shite together, and collect applications. 5. after the 1 year period, no applications will be received. During the next 2 years work to clear the 15 million individual cases, during these 2 years (unfortunately) the borders will be closed. The people that have come over illegally have effectively "skipped the line". Too bad I guess, but the extra capacity of all immigration offices will be needed to clear the 15 million cases in the 2 years allotted. IT should also be noted that the applicants will be given proof of application, so that their status is not "illegal". 6. (secretly) there will be an additional year planned for in case the cases are not completely cleared. (It is the govt. after all) 7. after this 3-4 year period we should have super strict laws against being an illegal. I know it is expensive to jail people in our country for being here illegally, but a few 5-10 year sentences should act as a deterrent. 8.I am really against mandatory sentencing, but there should be 5 years jail or $100K added to any crime or fine levied against an illegal after this.
I like some of your ideas and it would be a start except the mandatory sentencing part. I am just not too keen on footing the bill. Demand creates supply and usually not the other way around and it's much cheaper to jail a couple than 50 of them(one company for example).
When you have unarmed citizens being murdered in the street for petty theft of two dollars worth of tobacco, or for selling a cigarette without a license, we have become a fascist police state.
Worst still, You have both sides of the same coin, the right and the left, In support of the state being given a power so great as to take your life away. Well then , it's just a big open air gulag
But even worst still, a certain independent non partisan poster is still skipping like a broken record. Does this forum have no moderators?
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I agree, the country is going to shit
When you have unarmed citizens being murdered in the street for petty theft of two dollars worth of tobacco, or for selling a cigarette without a license, we have become a fascist police state.
Worst still, You have both sides of the same coin, the right and the left, In support of the state being given a power so great as to take your life away. Well then , it's just a big open air gulag
But even worst still, a certain independent non partisan poster is still skipping like a broken record. Does this forum have no moderators?
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