What is the cost to deport them? Who foots the bill? What guarantee is there that they don't come back? Build a fence? What's the cost? Put them in prison? What's the cost? Shoot them? What's the cost to keep them? You are always the one with the answers , what should we do? I'll be waiting for all your answers.
keep waiting...
put downs in a condescending insecure tone... you can count on that...
"bail out"s rushing in to save a usual suspect in trouble, you can count on that...
repeating the prescribed partisan rhetoric... we've seen it time and again...
answers........................
keep waiting
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
What is the cost to deport them? Who foots the bill? What guarantee is there that they don't come back? Build a fence? What's the cost? Put them in prison? What's the cost? Shoot them? What's the cost to keep them? You are always the one with the answers , what should we do? I'll be waiting for all your answers.
keep waiting...
put downs in a condescending insecure tone... you can count on that...
"bail out"s rushing in to save a usual suspect in trouble, you can count on that...
repeating the prescribed partisan rhetoric... we've seen it time and again...
Who do you want Rolling Stone to come under fire from?
How hard is it to infer he means the same folks they are under fire about with the rape story? Anyone who reads something and realizes it is not true, etc.
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Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
Who do you want Rolling Stone to come under fire from?
How hard is it to infer he means the same folks they are under fire about with the rape story? Anyone who reads something and realizes it is not true, etc.
as a non-partisan independent, I agree with you in theory...
based on 21st century history there is no way that happens...
You have one side that favors the illegals and the other that favors them being there to exploit the cheap labor...
as a non-partisan independent that is an actual citizen and does not employee illegals it seems like neither side represents me...
But that of course a non-partisan independent view...
Since this has been more or less done before, as I have pointed out, why could it not happen again? It is all about the folks fortitude.
The implication is that politicians on both sides want illegal immigration. I intend this is wrong. Sure Left wants it. Who on the right does? And says it is for cheap labor? Name me those politicians. I posit they tax title are okay because they fear being seen as xenophobic and mean-hearted. The Left and Media perpetrate this myth (so they aren't seen as the only ones for it) that the Right approve of illegal immigration; they don't.
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Quote Originally Posted by dl36:
as a non-partisan independent, I agree with you in theory...
based on 21st century history there is no way that happens...
You have one side that favors the illegals and the other that favors them being there to exploit the cheap labor...
as a non-partisan independent that is an actual citizen and does not employee illegals it seems like neither side represents me...
But that of course a non-partisan independent view...
Since this has been more or less done before, as I have pointed out, why could it not happen again? It is all about the folks fortitude.
The implication is that politicians on both sides want illegal immigration. I intend this is wrong. Sure Left wants it. Who on the right does? And says it is for cheap labor? Name me those politicians. I posit they tax title are okay because they fear being seen as xenophobic and mean-hearted. The Left and Media perpetrate this myth (so they aren't seen as the only ones for it) that the Right approve of illegal immigration; they don't.
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
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Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
Dude, I get it.
You are a non-partisan independent.
You don't have to repeat it 3 times in a post
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
I know plenty on the right that claim it.
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
How hard is it to infer he means the same folks they are under fire about with the rape story? Anyone who reads something and realizes it is not true, etc.
Well that's silly. Who cares about that heat?
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
How hard is it to infer he means the same folks they are under fire about with the rape story? Anyone who reads something and realizes it is not true, etc.
Since this has been more or less done before, as I have pointed out, why could it not happen again? It is all about the folks fortitude.
The implication is that politicians on both sides want illegal immigration. I intend this is wrong. Sure Left wants it. Who on the right does? And says it is for cheap labor? Name me those politicians. I posit they tax title are okay because they fear being seen as xenophobic and mean-hearted. The Left and Media perpetrate this myth (so they aren't seen as the only ones for it) that the Right approve of illegal immigration; they don't.
What have republican politicians done about the border besides whine? Republicans had everyone in place not too long ago.
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Since this has been more or less done before, as I have pointed out, why could it not happen again? It is all about the folks fortitude.
The implication is that politicians on both sides want illegal immigration. I intend this is wrong. Sure Left wants it. Who on the right does? And says it is for cheap labor? Name me those politicians. I posit they tax title are okay because they fear being seen as xenophobic and mean-hearted. The Left and Media perpetrate this myth (so they aren't seen as the only ones for it) that the Right approve of illegal immigration; they don't.
What have republican politicians done about the border besides whine? Republicans had everyone in place not too long ago.
What is the cost to deport them? Who foots the bill? What guarantee is there that they don't come back? Build a fence? What's the cost? Put them in prison? What's the cost? Shoot them? What's the cost to keep them? You are always the one with the answers , what should we do? I'll be waiting for all your answers.
Each illegal costs US taxpayers 10k per year NET. What is your plan? Doing nothing?? That has cost billions and that bill will continue to increase. You have offered nothing and your party simply panders for votes. Legal immigration is designed to provide a benefit for the US citizen; illegal and unchecked influx of the desperate and poor is anathema to the American way of life and 70% of the populace wants the border secured. I've mentioned e-verify and the resulting self-deportation.
What do you have?? Perhaps a CBO study showing the benefit of illegals in the country? Perhaps proof that terrorists do not have easy access across our borders? Evidence that diseases eradicated on American soil are not being reintroduced?? Proof that illegals do not commit crimes in America on a daily basis??
Your work is cut out for you. Chop chop.
A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
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Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:
What is the cost to deport them? Who foots the bill? What guarantee is there that they don't come back? Build a fence? What's the cost? Put them in prison? What's the cost? Shoot them? What's the cost to keep them? You are always the one with the answers , what should we do? I'll be waiting for all your answers.
Each illegal costs US taxpayers 10k per year NET. What is your plan? Doing nothing?? That has cost billions and that bill will continue to increase. You have offered nothing and your party simply panders for votes. Legal immigration is designed to provide a benefit for the US citizen; illegal and unchecked influx of the desperate and poor is anathema to the American way of life and 70% of the populace wants the border secured. I've mentioned e-verify and the resulting self-deportation.
What do you have?? Perhaps a CBO study showing the benefit of illegals in the country? Perhaps proof that terrorists do not have easy access across our borders? Evidence that diseases eradicated on American soil are not being reintroduced?? Proof that illegals do not commit crimes in America on a daily basis??
Your work is cut out for you. Chop chop.
A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
Economic activity produced by illegal immigrant spending employs about 5% of the total US workforce. Illegal immigrants occupy over 3 million dwellings, or just under 4% of the total number of homes in the US. UCLA research indicates immigrants produce $150 billion of economic activity equivalent to spending stimulus every year. The advantages of illegal migration tend mostly to be on the side of the employer.
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Economic activity produced by illegal immigrant spending employs about 5% of the total US workforce. Illegal immigrants occupy over 3 million dwellings, or just under 4% of the total number of homes in the US. UCLA research indicates immigrants produce $150 billion of economic activity equivalent to spending stimulus every year. The advantages of illegal migration tend mostly to be on the side of the employer.
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
0
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
Heidi Shierholz,, told you ?
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Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
Each illegal costs US taxpayers 10k per year NET. What is your plan? Doing nothing?? That has cost billions and that bill will continue to increase. You have offered nothing and your party simply panders for votes. Legal immigration is designed to provide a benefit for the US citizen; illegal and unchecked influx of the desperate and poor is anathema to the American way of life and 70% of the populace wants the border secured. I've mentioned e-verify and the resulting self-deportation.
What do you have?? Perhaps a CBO study showing the benefit of illegals in the country? Perhaps proof that terrorists do not have easy access across our borders? Evidence that diseases eradicated on American soil are not being reintroduced?? Proof that illegals do not commit crimes in America on a daily basis??
Your work is cut out for you. Chop chop.
A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
Well that's probably the best answer I'll get from you on one of my questions. Now try and answer the rest. Since you have all the answers you should have no problem answering the rest. I'll try to make it simple for you. You appear to be in favor of deportation so how much would it cost? And what guarantee is there that some would not return.
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Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:
Each illegal costs US taxpayers 10k per year NET. What is your plan? Doing nothing?? That has cost billions and that bill will continue to increase. You have offered nothing and your party simply panders for votes. Legal immigration is designed to provide a benefit for the US citizen; illegal and unchecked influx of the desperate and poor is anathema to the American way of life and 70% of the populace wants the border secured. I've mentioned e-verify and the resulting self-deportation.
What do you have?? Perhaps a CBO study showing the benefit of illegals in the country? Perhaps proof that terrorists do not have easy access across our borders? Evidence that diseases eradicated on American soil are not being reintroduced?? Proof that illegals do not commit crimes in America on a daily basis??
Your work is cut out for you. Chop chop.
A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
Well that's probably the best answer I'll get from you on one of my questions. Now try and answer the rest. Since you have all the answers you should have no problem answering the rest. I'll try to make it simple for you. You appear to be in favor of deportation so how much would it cost? And what guarantee is there that some would not return.
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
I lean left. I've said before that I feel I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative . Sort of makes me a libertarian I guess?
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
I contend the more people feel compelled to say they are independent, the more Liberal they really are.
The current theory is people who say they are independent are just afraid to admit to being liberals. I can't recall the last person on the Right that said they were independent; I know plenty on the left that claim it.
I lean left. I've said before that I feel I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative . Sort of makes me a libertarian I guess?
be careful with that, Libertarian is what the Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans are calling themselves now, you know, because of the nutjob factor.
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be careful with that, Libertarian is what the Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans are calling themselves now, you know, because of the nutjob factor.
In six weeks over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states (California and Arizona). Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.
In Texas 80,000 were taken into custody and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left voluntarily.
Illegal aliens caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, aliens were taken deep within Mexico before being set free.
" I LIKE IKE "..................
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Bring back "Operation Aquaback".....
In six weeks over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states (California and Arizona). Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.
In Texas 80,000 were taken into custody and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left voluntarily.
Illegal aliens caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, aliens were taken deep within Mexico before being set free.
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
There is plenty of debate.
The artificially low cost of food based on near slave labor, that predominately comes from illegal immigrants is an issue that economists, Republicans, or Democrats will not touch with a ten foot poll.
What about the manipulation of bids in construction and the service economy based on the fact that there are unscrupulous entrepreneurs who pay under the table for labor, Making companies that pay into the system too expensive?
So the point is that to the average American, sure they are paying less for food, and having their homes built cheaper, but it does not reflect fair play within these markets, and does not contribute to making our country any better.
If I had the ability to forgo paying taxes on labor, insurance for workers, unemployment insurance, worker's comp etc, I would have enough to drop my prices by 15-25% tomorrow.
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Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:
There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.”
There is plenty of debate.
The artificially low cost of food based on near slave labor, that predominately comes from illegal immigrants is an issue that economists, Republicans, or Democrats will not touch with a ten foot poll.
What about the manipulation of bids in construction and the service economy based on the fact that there are unscrupulous entrepreneurs who pay under the table for labor, Making companies that pay into the system too expensive?
So the point is that to the average American, sure they are paying less for food, and having their homes built cheaper, but it does not reflect fair play within these markets, and does not contribute to making our country any better.
If I had the ability to forgo paying taxes on labor, insurance for workers, unemployment insurance, worker's comp etc, I would have enough to drop my prices by 15-25% tomorrow.
well, that theory will be tested because we will never secure that border. (or the other one).
If we were not all responsible for one another, and forced to pay to subsidize each other, I wouldn't really mind an open border.
The fact of the matter is that there is a failed state to our south that is in the middle of a war that has claimed more people than the entire war on terror.
They are more corrupt than Russia, and probably more of a long term threat than North Korea.
Yet we never talk about military action.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
well, that theory will be tested because we will never secure that border. (or the other one).
If we were not all responsible for one another, and forced to pay to subsidize each other, I wouldn't really mind an open border.
The fact of the matter is that there is a failed state to our south that is in the middle of a war that has claimed more people than the entire war on terror.
They are more corrupt than Russia, and probably more of a long term threat than North Korea.
Darkhorse, I have to agree with esplande on this one.
More directly : A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
You can't have a socialist utopia and open borders.
I agree with you rick but what's the answer? As espy suggested self deportation? You believe these people are going to go back to where they came from? Where they have nothing. Sorry , will never happen so what will be the cost to deport them? Isn't the new game plan to at least give them a chance to become citizens? Be productive, integrate. At least this is something since for the last 40 years no one did anything.
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Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
Darkhorse, I have to agree with esplande on this one.
More directly : A sovereign state can not exist without a secure border. A welfare state can't exist without a secure border either.
You can't have a socialist utopia and open borders.
I agree with you rick but what's the answer? As espy suggested self deportation? You believe these people are going to go back to where they came from? Where they have nothing. Sorry , will never happen so what will be the cost to deport them? Isn't the new game plan to at least give them a chance to become citizens? Be productive, integrate. At least this is something since for the last 40 years no one did anything.
i've given a rough estimate of the cost and it was so high, the conclusion is the chances of mass deportation happening is similar to the chances of forgoing our defense budget entirely for a couple of years.
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i've given a rough estimate of the cost and it was so high, the conclusion is the chances of mass deportation happening is similar to the chances of forgoing our defense budget entirely for a couple of years.
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