Immigration Issue

@Raiders22

 Says the person who thinks illegals who come from the south should be mowed into the Trump Gulf, that is brown unfortunately. I never see you reference anything but brown or even give context about historical implications. Ive asked so many times yet you never address it, instead you say as above SURE THERE IS...as if that makes it so.

If you want to be draconian to people who came across an OPEN BORDER today and within our lifetime and suggest they have no claim or value to citizenship then you MUST extend your thesis to include any and all for the history of this country who came here using any means and did not follow the immigration process, THEY have no claim either. And then when you love to toss out birth citizenship that same logic flows to include all the lineage of those who did not follow protocol and do not deserve the exact same concept you are trying to erase. THIS is non-partisan and factual, you cannot have a standard for one group then not extend the same standards to ALL GROUPS. You also SHOULD not be draconian to people entering our border when we have not closed it, that is OUR responsibility and if someone crosses over due to the border being open then that has implications due to the US not closing it. THAT is why I keep saying if you want to be draconian, first close the border and staff it with hundreds of thousands of staff because that is what it will take and fund it with hundreds of billions of dollars because that is what it will take...THEN you get to be tough guy and sweep all the illegals into the Trump Gulf, that is how you take accountability and ownership for the flaws to which your system operates. Then you give a moratorium and to any inside the closed border they can apply for citizenship and THEN you throw down the new rules with everything in proper order and with equity and fairness.

If you want to ignore the ancestry lineage gaping hole in your contention you should be consistent in current times, that is if you are really seeking to uphold justice and fairness per the constitution and not just playing cruel partisan destruction of "those" illegals who cause all the crime and vote liberal and take all the social program monies....while you turn your eyes from the hundreds of billions being spent and trillions of higher costs due to decisions being made by your dood.

Its all connected it is all relevant and there is no way to side step truth and reality even if you try so hard to do so.

@wallstreetcappers

 Says the person who thinks illegals who come from the south should be mowed into the Trump Gulf

Nope. More feelings and emotions.

Never said this or even indicated it.  So again, no facts back you up.

@wallstreetcappers

 I never see you reference anything but brown

When have you seen this?

@wallstreetcappers

 include any and all for the history of this country who came here using any means and did not follow the immigration process

Okay

@wallstreetcappers

 first close the border and staff it with hundreds of thousands of staff because that is what it will take and fund it with hundreds of billions of dollars because that is what it will take

Apparently not.

Why make these inane one line replies which do not address the question or add to discussion? Just skip it all together and spare the show me the proof nonsense when you are an exponentially worse example yourself. 

When have I seen this

Okay

Apparently not

Nope more feelings and emotions

Outstanding display there Raiders...way to say absolutely nothing and side step actual questions and issues.

@wallstreetcappers

 Why make these inane one line replies which do not address the question or add to discussion?

To make it simple for you.

What you said was untrue.  

So, it does not take a paragraph to ask you where you got it from.

@wallstreetcappers

 Outstanding display there Raiders...

Yessir, it usually is.  Thanks.

way to say absolutely nothing and side step actual questions and issues.

The issues have already been addressed.

@wallstreetcappers

 You never, ever are able or willing to answer questions.

That is why you never can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling and derogatory comments.

So, there is no point in demanding someone always answer your questions.  They are generally vague and do not key in on the issue at hand.

If you want a good discussion take your time and answer a few of these:

Where should the practical limit be?

How should immigration laws be enforced?

What are the effects on low-skilled workers?

How should public services be funded?

How do you maintain public support?

What about national security and criminal screening?

Fairness to legal immigrants?

These are the sorts of questions that your side can never answer.  They simply just try all sorts of platitudes and then try to appeal to the emotional side of the argument only.

This is where the feelings part of the discussion should be backed up with some sort of facts and delineation from appeal to emotion.

I am fine with any of those topics by themselves even.  Pick one you are comfortable with and go ahead.

@Raiders22

 So as usual the pulpit pro dictates the discussion, so you refuse to answer questions and insist that either you HAVE answered (false) or that it is my responsibility to answer you first. No pal it does not work like that. When you enter a convo on your own and start engaging that means you engage and inquire not throw down one liners of zero value and then demand others to follow your script. 

That list of questions means absolutely nothing to the underlying concept of our immigration system. You throw out seven unrelated questions and none are about this thread or the foundation and flaws of the system in fact why do you ask questions outside of #2 at all? Public support, public services, fairness (you do not seem to have that term in your mindset, the only fairness you want is when it serves you personally) those questions are not at all on point or of any purpose but for you to dictate things as you always do.

There can be no discussion about immigration that means anything until there IS an immigration system that works and is equitable, accessible and fair. If you want to become the wall country then build the stupid thing already this topic has been around since the 1990s as a political chew toy and nothing is done. So belly up to the bar or deal with the realities NOT having one implies. Unless you are willing to actually implement the law and back date it to include all of society then your side is being partisan hypocrites (which is true already) and you are not about upholding the law and the constitution. If immigration laws are based on ENTRY and immediate filing then that will net us millions of current citizens to deport for their ancestry not doing so thus under the framework of your side THEY are not allowed to be here. 

You care about funding? Since when...the only funding you care about is knocking out alleged liberal causes, eliminating programs that aid the least in this country and making sure our TRILLION dollar military has all the guns and cash they need to fight wars we have no place being involved with.

If you truly want an immigration policy you have to make it happen in its entire form and accept the implications your agenda places on ALL citizens.

@wallstreetcappers

 This is where I entered by answering your question first. 

...so all illegals should be deported even those who are law abiding, hard working honest humans?

@wallstreetcappers

 So, yes, it is now your turn.  

Pick one and answer it and we can go from there.  

You have to be able to acknowledge that there is even a problem in order to address it:

Gill:

“Is it a good thing that President Trump secured the border?”

Newman:

“I think our border has been secure for quite some time.”

Despite Trump campaign against illegal immigration, most of the damage is in legal immigration.  Cato institute study reveals that his administration cuts legal immigration far more than illegal crossings.  Dismantling legal pathways by extensive entry bans, visa holds and stricter processing rules.   Turning legal immigrants into illegal immigrants.  However polls show most Americans see immigration as beneficial overall.  Problem is overly restrictive immigration policies reduce US economic growth.

Brookings institution reveals that mass deportation is a jobs killer leading to loss of over 668,000 jobs in 9 months of 2025.  Immigrants aren't substitutes but instead are complements.  They do jobs that Americans don't want to do.  

 
More biased rhetoric that is misleading and conclusion-jumping.

This should identify the specific Brookings analysis. Different studies estimate different effects depending on the deportation scenario (number of people deported, timeframe, industries affected, etc.). Without citing the report, readers can't evaluate the claim.

Saying "mass deportation is a jobs killer" is rhetorical. Most economic studies would instead say something like:

"Brookings estimates that mass deportation could reduce employment by..."

or

"The analysis projects..."

"Immigrants aren't substitutes but instead are complements" is too absolute.

In labor economics, immigrants are often complements to native-born workers, meaning they can increase productivity and create additional jobs. However, whether they are complements or substitutes depends on:
skill level, occupation, industry, local labor market.

Economists generally do not argue they are never substitutes.

"They do jobs that Americans don't want to do" is an overgeneralization.

A more accurate version would be:

"Immigrants are disproportionately represented in physically demanding, seasonal, or lower-paying jobs that many employers report difficulty filling with native-born workers."

Some Americans do work in those occupations, so saying Americans "don't want to do" them is broader than the evidence supports.

There are plenty of people that will do the work and plenty of legal immigrant worker programs to get the jobs done. 

The issue is ‘allowing’ illegals to stay in the country just to do the work its citizens are too lazy or ‘too good’ to do.  

Import all illegals and the jobs will still get done. 

*Deport all illegals and import legal immigrant workers and the jobs will still get done. Or just incentivize the citizens to do the work.  

Supreme court upholds rule of law by rejecting Trump limits on birth right citizenship.  Revoking citizenship for potentially millions of Americans could be destructive for the US but xenophobic Trump does not care about consequences from mass deportation.  Contempt for civil rights is among characteristics of fascism.  

The Cons want you to believe that immigrants are a problem but we all saw who stormed the Capitol on January 6th.

Birth tourism is rare.  Under 1% of total births in the US.  But far right extremists have disdain for 14th amendment.  They want to end equality and revoke birth right citizenship to create second class caste.  They see immigrants as foreign invaders and threaten to use violence to protect US against perceived threat.  But their movement is not really about securing border.  It's about ethnic cleansing.  However polls show most Americans support birth right citizenship and see immigration as positive overall for country.

Yahoo news report that Marc Rosenblum has resigned as director of homeland security statistics department.  Blaming corrupt Trump administration wars against immigration, facts and federal government.

Be nice if he would say exactly what corruption he meant, instead of just generalizing and bellyaching about his other complaints and throwing it in with those.

They were COVID heroes in our hospitals & now they are being told to return to Haiti.

At the same time our, government is warning Americans to avoid travel to Haiti. 

How fucked up is that?? 

RELEASE THE TRUMP EPSTEIN FILES!

Even if they weren’t your heroes it would still be wrong - Haiti is among the most dangerous places on earth right now - it wouldn’t be ok even if it was your criminals you sent there