Posted:
#26
Quote Originally Posted by gus1689:
66 off
i don't see what's funny.
NBA is over so i'm back on the Felt - Check This Hand, What Would You Do?
Posted:
#27
A few other information:
- I have not been in much pots & playing mostly premiums. So my table image is some what tight.
- The table is somewhat loose with a few fish and one very tight player and my opponent who i mentioned is somewhat tight/conservative.
- I have played my opponent before and have a gist of how he plays but he can be fairly tricky.
I know my approach on this hand is very unorthodox and most probably a more standard method of betting may have won this pot. Perhaps this is just my way of playing on a loose table filled with fish and only a couple of decent players.
- I have not been in much pots & playing mostly premiums. So my table image is some what tight.
- The table is somewhat loose with a few fish and one very tight player and my opponent who i mentioned is somewhat tight/conservative.
- I have played my opponent before and have a gist of how he plays but he can be fairly tricky.
I know my approach on this hand is very unorthodox and most probably a more standard method of betting may have won this pot. Perhaps this is just my way of playing on a loose table filled with fish and only a couple of decent players.
Posted:
#28
Quote Originally Posted by 3BallBomber:
don't you also think by him check-calling on the flop and the turn that that in itself gives you some information that you can process!?! Remember when that turn dropped there was now 3 hearts on the board.
don't you also think by him check-calling on the flop and the turn that that in itself gives you some information that you can process!?! Remember when that turn dropped there was now 3 hearts on the board.
Him check calling on the flop and turn tells you nothing specific. You raised so little on the flop that he pretty much had to call if he had hearts. He probably doesn't put you on hearts so if he's got an ace, he probably feels safe. If he made his flush, he's slow playing on the turn so that tells you nothing. If he calls a standard pre-flop raise, you can assume he likely has high cards or a crap pair. If he calls a continuation bet on a board like that on the flop, then you probably know you are beat. The standard raise gives you the BEST chance to win the hand pre-flop which is what you would like with a pair of 6's.
You gave him the option to pretty much play any two cards...you wandered around in no man's land the whold hand.
And 6-6 off is funny because ALL pairs are off-suits. 
You might be well served by reading a few books. 
Perhaps this is just my way of playing on a loose table filled with fish and only a couple of decent players.
You said the guy was pretty tight. And why would you ever want to give a loose player the proper odds to call with any two cards? They LIVE for that. You want to have it be a MISTAKE if he calls with any two cards. You accomplish that by making the odds in your favor with an appropriate pre-flop raise.
You aren't making any sense at all. 
Posted:
#29
Perhaps this is just my way of playing on a loose table filled with fish and only a couple of decent players.
Everybody has a different approach playing on different types of tables and this has been the way i have been successful in playing on loose tables which has worked for me over the years.
Again, like i stated in no way was this the orthodox way of playing the hand and most will probably say i butchered the hand but i reiterate that his play on the turn was the significant play that helped me make my decision on this hand.
And i just realised i wrote 6 6 off - how very silly of me lol.
Everybody has a different approach playing on different types of tables and this has been the way i have been successful in playing on loose tables which has worked for me over the years.
Again, like i stated in no way was this the orthodox way of playing the hand and most will probably say i butchered the hand but i reiterate that his play on the turn was the significant play that helped me make my decision on this hand.
And i just realised i wrote 6 6 off - how very silly of me lol.
Posted:
#36
- Pre-flop everybody folds but the blinds (opponent on SB)
- Flop is A J 2 with two hearts
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum and opponent calls.
- River 5 of hearts
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum & opponent calls
- River 8 of spade
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum again & he raises extra 500 on top
- (remember blinds is 50/100) so there's about 1400 in the pot.
I whent deep into the think tank..............
OK this was the order of thoughts that came into my head as soon as he check-raised me on the river. Keep in mind i did take reasonable amount of time trying to decypher the hand as i am known to do when placed in a predicament.
1. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
2. That 8s could not have helped him.
3. If he had the Ace or even the Jack the slow play with the min check-call on the flop was the play to deceive the hand.
4. BUT if he did have the ACE or the JACK and considering he is a tight/conservative player what if i was holding 2 hearts in my hand couldn't that min bet indicate i was chasing a flush? surely a tight/conservative player would try and protect his hand from somebody chasing his cards!?!
5. Even with the 3rd heart on the board on the turn (5h) he still check-called my minimum bet. If he truely had the ACE or JACK i think especially as a tight player he would have protected his hand on the turn especially because of my min-bet on the flop with 2 hearts on the board may have indicated a draw - i could be the one slow playing him on the turn with my already made flush yet he just calls rather than raising to see where he is in this hand???
6. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
7. Why did he check-call another min-bet on the turn with 3 hearts on the board if he had the ACE or JACK??????? Any player would protect his ACE/JACK right there.
8. I knew on the turn he didn't believe i had the Ace or JACK either because i think he would also be thinking i would protect my hand on the turn with that 3rd heart or even bet bigger on the flop with the 2 hearts to risk being called by someone on a flush draw - maybe he put me on something like K10 or Q10 which is why i think he called on the flop more than the fact i gave him odds to call.
9. repeated thoughts from number 7. Why did he check-call another min-bet on the turn with 3 hearts on the board if he had the ACE or JACK??????? Any player would protect his ACE/JACK right there.
10. I don't think he hit at all and is maybe just trying to steal this pot.
11.check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
12. check-call, check-call, check-raise?????? that is suspect.
*at this point i didn't even think of the fact i had reasonably odds to call.*
13. My min bet on the turn indicated to him i was not holding an ACE or JACK just like i thought he didn't have an ACE/JACK because he also just called the minimum bet so he must be trying to steal this pot.
14. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
- I finally say something like "There's something up!?! if you have the A or J then cool but check-call, check-call, check-raise?????? I gotta call you here" and i flip over my 6's..........
- Opponent has an embrassed sort of smile and flips over 52os
- He knocks the table and says to me "great call, you crippled me but i don't mind losing to a play like that great call"
- A few others say "nice call" and my table image just whent from Tight to Dangerous in one hand early in the tourny. I ended up winning that tournament.
- Flop is A J 2 with two hearts
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum and opponent calls.
- River 5 of hearts
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum & opponent calls
- River 8 of spade
- Opponent checks, I bet minimum again & he raises extra 500 on top
- (remember blinds is 50/100) so there's about 1400 in the pot.
I whent deep into the think tank..............
OK this was the order of thoughts that came into my head as soon as he check-raised me on the river. Keep in mind i did take reasonable amount of time trying to decypher the hand as i am known to do when placed in a predicament.
1. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
2. That 8s could not have helped him.
3. If he had the Ace or even the Jack the slow play with the min check-call on the flop was the play to deceive the hand.
4. BUT if he did have the ACE or the JACK and considering he is a tight/conservative player what if i was holding 2 hearts in my hand couldn't that min bet indicate i was chasing a flush? surely a tight/conservative player would try and protect his hand from somebody chasing his cards!?!
5. Even with the 3rd heart on the board on the turn (5h) he still check-called my minimum bet. If he truely had the ACE or JACK i think especially as a tight player he would have protected his hand on the turn especially because of my min-bet on the flop with 2 hearts on the board may have indicated a draw - i could be the one slow playing him on the turn with my already made flush yet he just calls rather than raising to see where he is in this hand???
6. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
7. Why did he check-call another min-bet on the turn with 3 hearts on the board if he had the ACE or JACK??????? Any player would protect his ACE/JACK right there.
8. I knew on the turn he didn't believe i had the Ace or JACK either because i think he would also be thinking i would protect my hand on the turn with that 3rd heart or even bet bigger on the flop with the 2 hearts to risk being called by someone on a flush draw - maybe he put me on something like K10 or Q10 which is why i think he called on the flop more than the fact i gave him odds to call.
9. repeated thoughts from number 7. Why did he check-call another min-bet on the turn with 3 hearts on the board if he had the ACE or JACK??????? Any player would protect his ACE/JACK right there.
10. I don't think he hit at all and is maybe just trying to steal this pot.
11.check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
12. check-call, check-call, check-raise?????? that is suspect.
*at this point i didn't even think of the fact i had reasonably odds to call.*
13. My min bet on the turn indicated to him i was not holding an ACE or JACK just like i thought he didn't have an ACE/JACK because he also just called the minimum bet so he must be trying to steal this pot.
14. check-call, check-call, check-raise??????
- I finally say something like "There's something up!?! if you have the A or J then cool but check-call, check-call, check-raise?????? I gotta call you here" and i flip over my 6's..........
- Opponent has an embrassed sort of smile and flips over 52os
- He knocks the table and says to me "great call, you crippled me but i don't mind losing to a play like that great call"
- A few others say "nice call" and my table image just whent from Tight to Dangerous in one hand early in the tourny. I ended up winning that tournament.
Posted:
#37
When i was first learning the game i watched a lot of Negreanu's game, i studied his game. I learnt a lot from his tutorials.
I played a lot on line. I would play specifically on play money tables to practice reading hands and i use to do this for hours each day.
I began to have a knack in reading hands on line & live. People would ask how i knew their hands &i never really had an answer until i realised it was betting & betting patterns that allowed me to determine what sort of hand people had. I then later read an article Negreanu wrote where he states that physical tells were over rated and that betting is where you can tell what hand your opponent was holding.
Anyway that leads me to this particular hand. Though this one was a bit different as I wasn't really trying to guess his hand rather more baffled by his betting. So all the hours on the poker table guessing hands by peoples betting approach, amounts and patterns helped in making my decision in this particular hand.
The 2 main factors for this hand was his check-call on the turn & the check-call, check-call, check-raise!!!! But the biggest give away had to be his check-call on the turn. As i mentioned i've played my opponent several times before and have a gist on how he plays and knew if he was holding an Ace or Jack that he would raise me on the turn with 3 hearts on the board to protect his hand. So that check-call, although you think it was a horrible play by me and again i won't argue that, was also a very weak play by my opponent as it helped me to determine his bluff. So by the time he check-raised me on the river with a card like 8s it just seemed very strange, suspiscious and baffling all at the same time and my natural instincts kicked in.
As you all mentioned why did i min-bet on the turn???........This reply answers that question about betting patterns. My ability to read hands by betting patterns allowed me to make a very unusual play on the turn, let me explain:
Yes i could have bet someting like 3X the blind on the turn to know where i am in this hand and it would have probably won the pot there, or something terrible may have occured like my opponent getting ballsy and re-raising a significant amount which may have me thinking of folding to a raise like that than his raise on the river as it didn't give me much room to process as that would have ben the only line of beting to think about.
But my decision to bet the minimum on the turn was calculated, no it was not a mistake. I figured it would be very interesting what he would choose to do if i bet minimum again knowing that if he just calls yet again it would defintely give me information. what if he raised me? then so be it if he did and depending on by how much i would then go back into the think tank but i don't know if i could have put him on an Ace or even a Jack just because he chooses to raise my min bet because it is after all a min bet that can be easily taken as a weak bet equating to me having nothing so if he did raise most likely it would be for that reason alone.
So betting min on the turn would give me information to outplay him on 5th street and, although he tried to out play me i ended up making the right call with the information given to me by him calling my min bet wich you all crucified. Also i form of small ball involved which is my preferred way to play tournies and by doing so i built up the pot from the initial 300 pre-flop to 1400 by the river and remember i only had about 1700 prior to this hand and after i almost doubled up early in the tourny which is always very helpfull!
I played a lot on line. I would play specifically on play money tables to practice reading hands and i use to do this for hours each day.
I began to have a knack in reading hands on line & live. People would ask how i knew their hands &i never really had an answer until i realised it was betting & betting patterns that allowed me to determine what sort of hand people had. I then later read an article Negreanu wrote where he states that physical tells were over rated and that betting is where you can tell what hand your opponent was holding.
Anyway that leads me to this particular hand. Though this one was a bit different as I wasn't really trying to guess his hand rather more baffled by his betting. So all the hours on the poker table guessing hands by peoples betting approach, amounts and patterns helped in making my decision in this particular hand.
The 2 main factors for this hand was his check-call on the turn & the check-call, check-call, check-raise!!!! But the biggest give away had to be his check-call on the turn. As i mentioned i've played my opponent several times before and have a gist on how he plays and knew if he was holding an Ace or Jack that he would raise me on the turn with 3 hearts on the board to protect his hand. So that check-call, although you think it was a horrible play by me and again i won't argue that, was also a very weak play by my opponent as it helped me to determine his bluff. So by the time he check-raised me on the river with a card like 8s it just seemed very strange, suspiscious and baffling all at the same time and my natural instincts kicked in.
As you all mentioned why did i min-bet on the turn???........This reply answers that question about betting patterns. My ability to read hands by betting patterns allowed me to make a very unusual play on the turn, let me explain:
Yes i could have bet someting like 3X the blind on the turn to know where i am in this hand and it would have probably won the pot there, or something terrible may have occured like my opponent getting ballsy and re-raising a significant amount which may have me thinking of folding to a raise like that than his raise on the river as it didn't give me much room to process as that would have ben the only line of beting to think about.
But my decision to bet the minimum on the turn was calculated, no it was not a mistake. I figured it would be very interesting what he would choose to do if i bet minimum again knowing that if he just calls yet again it would defintely give me information. what if he raised me? then so be it if he did and depending on by how much i would then go back into the think tank but i don't know if i could have put him on an Ace or even a Jack just because he chooses to raise my min bet because it is after all a min bet that can be easily taken as a weak bet equating to me having nothing so if he did raise most likely it would be for that reason alone.
So betting min on the turn would give me information to outplay him on 5th street and, although he tried to out play me i ended up making the right call with the information given to me by him calling my min bet wich you all crucified. Also i form of small ball involved which is my preferred way to play tournies and by doing so i built up the pot from the initial 300 pre-flop to 1400 by the river and remember i only had about 1700 prior to this hand and after i almost doubled up early in the tourny which is always very helpfull!
Posted:
#38
Also you all criticized me for not raising pre-flop........for one in BB was a very loose-aggressive fish that is also one hell of a calling station that calls with any hand, secondly it's the early stages of the tourny and feel i did not have to make big bets at that time. I also like to play small ball especially like to play small ball on loose tables. You all know there's different strategies during stages of a tournament, so if it was deeper into the tourny and i wasn't on such a loose table i would make the appropriate plays.
I bet small on loose tables, i play premiums and my main aim is to trap on loose tables - i also do all of the above especially at the early stages of tournies and i also don't do a lot of raising untill, of course the later stages of the tourny.
Like Negreanu i base my plays and decisions on betting patterns there for feel i can outplay opponents based on that so raising and betting big isn't neccessarily the only way for me to win hands as even calling the smallest of bets can give you information you need. by no means do i compare my skills with Negreanu, i still have so much to learn but feel my abilties are ok at this point to approach hands this way in certain situations.
I respect all your replies but wow 100% of you thought i was beat and all of you would have folded.
I bet small on loose tables, i play premiums and my main aim is to trap on loose tables - i also do all of the above especially at the early stages of tournies and i also don't do a lot of raising untill, of course the later stages of the tourny.
Like Negreanu i base my plays and decisions on betting patterns there for feel i can outplay opponents based on that so raising and betting big isn't neccessarily the only way for me to win hands as even calling the smallest of bets can give you information you need. by no means do i compare my skills with Negreanu, i still have so much to learn but feel my abilties are ok at this point to approach hands this way in certain situations.
I respect all your replies but wow 100% of you thought i was beat and all of you would have folded.
Posted:
#43
Quote Originally Posted by thethrill009:
i would reraise min bet, you fish.
no offense, but im dead serious about you being a fish. gl, try and get better quickly. dont raise stakes.
i would reraise min bet, you fish.
no offense, but im dead serious about you being a fish. gl, try and get better quickly. dont raise stakes.
i made the correct call, won the hand, won the tourny while everybody here thought my hand was beat and would have folded..........ok, thank you for your great input
Posted:
#49
Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
you should have laid it down......just because you won doesn't mean you made the right choice......
His point is even though you won the hand doesnt mean you made the "correct" decision.
Itd be like if you called an all in preflop with 27 offsuit and was up against AA. You end up rivering 2 paor and winning. Did you make the right choice? ABSOLUTELY NOT
My example was a bit extreme but you get the drift. Train69 is just saying he doesnt feel you played the hand well, which I and everyone else agree with also. The call on the river is whatever, but the min bet, min bet , min bet is just putrid anyway you look at it. But you feel you made the right decision and youre proud of it so congrats. Feel free to play hands this way at my table anytime
Yep. His thread became completely worthless when he never defended that dumb statement. 
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