NBA takes up a significant amount of my life but off season i can get back on the tables. Here's the hand:
- Blinds are 50/100 - still early in the tourny - I have a below average chip stack and opponent has an average stack. - I'm Button & opponent is SB - My opponent is conservative and can play tight. - I have been dealt Pocket 6 off suit
- Pre-flop everybody folds but the blinds (Me and opponent) - Flop is A J 2 with two hearts - Opponent checks, I bet minimum and opponent calls. - River 5 of hearts - Opponent checks, I bet minimum & opponent calls - River 8 of spade - Opponent checks, I bet minimum again & he raises extra 500 on top - (remember blinds is 50/100) so there's about 1400 in the pot.
I whent deep into the think tank..............
What would you do?
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
NBA takes up a significant amount of my life but off season i can get back on the tables. Here's the hand:
- Blinds are 50/100 - still early in the tourny - I have a below average chip stack and opponent has an average stack. - I'm Button & opponent is SB - My opponent is conservative and can play tight. - I have been dealt Pocket 6 off suit
- Pre-flop everybody folds but the blinds (Me and opponent) - Flop is A J 2 with two hearts - Opponent checks, I bet minimum and opponent calls. - River 5 of hearts - Opponent checks, I bet minimum & opponent calls - River 8 of spade - Opponent checks, I bet minimum again & he raises extra 500 on top - (remember blinds is 50/100) so there's about 1400 in the pot.
He can not put you on an ace because of no raise preflop.
I do not hate your non raise preflop, even though it may have cost you this time. Just the blinds yet to act, he knows you may raise very light. Your hand range here is huge so if he calls any over card on flop freezes you. with 6 6 an over card is coming probably two of them. Also if he pushes pre flop, or you did and he calls, you are more then likely racing at best.
You mention stack sizes but do not tell us actual amounts so 1400 in pot is vague. However it sounds like he is raising to get paid off on river and nor bluffing, which means 6 6 is dead.
I would not kill you for calling at those odds though, that is what makes value bets by your opponent such trouble, you SHOULD call most of them .
Good luck
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3ball,
He can not put you on an ace because of no raise preflop.
I do not hate your non raise preflop, even though it may have cost you this time. Just the blinds yet to act, he knows you may raise very light. Your hand range here is huge so if he calls any over card on flop freezes you. with 6 6 an over card is coming probably two of them. Also if he pushes pre flop, or you did and he calls, you are more then likely racing at best.
You mention stack sizes but do not tell us actual amounts so 1400 in pot is vague. However it sounds like he is raising to get paid off on river and nor bluffing, which means 6 6 is dead.
I would not kill you for calling at those odds though, that is what makes value bets by your opponent such trouble, you SHOULD call most of them .
3) Min betting at any point is generally a bad idea and a flat out AWFUL when youre hoping for a fold, as I HOPE you were on the flop. Plus if he's flush drawing youre making it correct for him to call so when he spikes blame yourself for bet-sizing him in, dont curse the poker gods for bad luck.
4) Did you really min-bet the turn again??? All youre doing is handing $ away here. Im not folding Ace-high to min bets cuz theyre usually weak, weak hands like the one youre holding (pp with 2 overs on board).
5) You really didnt min bet the river again did you? WHat were you hoping for here? To get him to fold a better hand or to get paid off by a worse? Cuz u MIGHT get paid off by worse occasionally but noone is EVER folding a better hand here to a friggen min bet. Also, I hoped you mucked to his raise. Yeah, he could be making a move on you (i prolly would cuz limp, minbet, minbet, minbet is an absolutely WEAK looking line) but more than not youre gonna be beat (prolly 90% of the time) so its not a profitable call
Overall (and I dont mean to be a dick but) you pretty much fucked up every single thing you could have on this hand. You HAVE to raise preflop on the button with a PP when its folded to you, dont min-bet EVER (EVER is a bit much but maybe, minbetting just doesnt accomplaish ANYTHING, it doesnt give u info or value), and (Im assuming this is a $20 buy-in or lower) DONT try to make hero calls at this level, ITS NOT profitable and thats what 90% of losing players arte their #1 leaks, all they wanna do is bluff and make hero calls when it is NOT NECESSARY.
I would have :
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
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1) HAVE to raise oreflop on button with a PP
2) Did you really say 66 offsuit?
3) Min betting at any point is generally a bad idea and a flat out AWFUL when youre hoping for a fold, as I HOPE you were on the flop. Plus if he's flush drawing youre making it correct for him to call so when he spikes blame yourself for bet-sizing him in, dont curse the poker gods for bad luck.
4) Did you really min-bet the turn again??? All youre doing is handing $ away here. Im not folding Ace-high to min bets cuz theyre usually weak, weak hands like the one youre holding (pp with 2 overs on board).
5) You really didnt min bet the river again did you? WHat were you hoping for here? To get him to fold a better hand or to get paid off by a worse? Cuz u MIGHT get paid off by worse occasionally but noone is EVER folding a better hand here to a friggen min bet. Also, I hoped you mucked to his raise. Yeah, he could be making a move on you (i prolly would cuz limp, minbet, minbet, minbet is an absolutely WEAK looking line) but more than not youre gonna be beat (prolly 90% of the time) so its not a profitable call
Overall (and I dont mean to be a dick but) you pretty much fucked up every single thing you could have on this hand. You HAVE to raise preflop on the button with a PP when its folded to you, dont min-bet EVER (EVER is a bit much but maybe, minbetting just doesnt accomplaish ANYTHING, it doesnt give u info or value), and (Im assuming this is a $20 buy-in or lower) DONT try to make hero calls at this level, ITS NOT profitable and thats what 90% of losing players arte their #1 leaks, all they wanna do is bluff and make hero calls when it is NOT NECESSARY.
I would have :
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
________
So often people think they have to make some tricky play when the hand is really pretty straight-forward. Easily possible he has a J or an A and you have no information to think that he's a crazy bastard capable of making a nut play. He calls a pre-flop raise and then a bet with 2 overs on the board....and you said he plays pretty tight. Don't make it harder then it has to be....he might do something crazy with either a short stack or a big stack....but for a medium stack...how the hand plays out....if he doesn't have you beat, he's playing WAY different then you witnessed. Why gamble that you caught him on some exotic play?
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I would have :
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
________
So often people think they have to make some tricky play when the hand is really pretty straight-forward. Easily possible he has a J or an A and you have no information to think that he's a crazy bastard capable of making a nut play. He calls a pre-flop raise and then a bet with 2 overs on the board....and you said he plays pretty tight. Don't make it harder then it has to be....he might do something crazy with either a short stack or a big stack....but for a medium stack...how the hand plays out....if he doesn't have you beat, he's playing WAY different then you witnessed. Why gamble that you caught him on some exotic play?
BTW, if you had raised standard, you would have gotten more information about his hand...by min raising, you gave him odds to call with a bunch of hands and thus learned nothing.
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BTW, if you had raised standard, you would have gotten more information about his hand...by min raising, you gave him odds to call with a bunch of hands and thus learned nothing.
He can not put you on an ace because of no raise preflop.
I do not hate your non raise preflop, even though it may have cost you this time. Just the blinds yet to act, he knows you may raise very light. Your hand range here is huge so if he calls any over card on flop freezes you. with 6 6 an over card is coming probably two of them. Also if he pushes pre flop, or you did and he calls, you are more then likely racing at best.
You mention stack sizes but do not tell us actual amounts so 1400 in pot is vague. However it sounds like he is raising to get paid off on river and nor bluffing, which means 6 6 is dead.
I would not kill you for calling at those odds though, that is what makes value bets by your opponent such trouble, you SHOULD call most of them .
Good luck
It was still very early in the tourny as the blinds started at 25/50. we started with 2000 in chips and i probably had about 1700 to my opponents 2200 or so.
I had close to about 3-1 to call but odds was the last thing on my mind once he check-raised me when the 8 hit on the river.
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Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:
3ball,
He can not put you on an ace because of no raise preflop.
I do not hate your non raise preflop, even though it may have cost you this time. Just the blinds yet to act, he knows you may raise very light. Your hand range here is huge so if he calls any over card on flop freezes you. with 6 6 an over card is coming probably two of them. Also if he pushes pre flop, or you did and he calls, you are more then likely racing at best.
You mention stack sizes but do not tell us actual amounts so 1400 in pot is vague. However it sounds like he is raising to get paid off on river and nor bluffing, which means 6 6 is dead.
I would not kill you for calling at those odds though, that is what makes value bets by your opponent such trouble, you SHOULD call most of them .
Good luck
It was still very early in the tourny as the blinds started at 25/50. we started with 2000 in chips and i probably had about 1700 to my opponents 2200 or so.
I had close to about 3-1 to call but odds was the last thing on my mind once he check-raised me when the 8 hit on the river.
3) Min betting at any point is generally a bad idea and a flat out AWFUL when youre hoping for a fold, as I HOPE you were on the flop. Plus if he's flush drawing youre making it correct for him to call so when he spikes blame yourself for bet-sizing him in, dont curse the poker gods for bad luck.
4) Did you really min-bet the turn again??? All youre doing is handing $ away here. Im not folding Ace-high to min bets cuz theyre usually weak, weak hands like the one youre holding (pp with 2 overs on board).
5) You really didnt min bet the river again did you? WHat were you hoping for here? To get him to fold a better hand or to get paid off by a worse? Cuz u MIGHT get paid off by worse occasionally but noone is EVER folding a better hand here to a friggen min bet. Also, I hoped you mucked to his raise. Yeah, he could be making a move on you (i prolly would cuz limp, minbet, minbet, minbet is an absolutely WEAK looking line) but more than not youre gonna be beat (prolly 90% of the time) so its not a profitable call
Overall (and I dont mean to be a dick but) you pretty much fucked up every single thing you could have on this hand. You HAVE to raise preflop on the button with a PP when its folded to you, dont min-bet EVER (EVER is a bit much but maybe, minbetting just doesnt accomplaish ANYTHING, it doesnt give u info or value), and (Im assuming this is a $20 buy-in or lower) DONT try to make hero calls at this level, ITS NOT profitable and thats what 90% of losing players arte their #1 leaks, all they wanna do is bluff and make hero calls when it is NOT NECESSARY.
I would have :
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
I actually agree with what you stated i should have done and in no way was this a standard method to play the hand.
Can i ask you a question!? fair enough he just check-called the min bet on the flop but what did you think of him check-calling the turn again?? Is he still disguising his hand? is he chasing because he has the odds to play? was it so he could bluff the river?
I think his actions on the turn was what i thought of the most when i made my decision.
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Quote Originally Posted by ChanceP:
1) HAVE to raise oreflop on button with a PP
2) Did you really say 66 offsuit?
3) Min betting at any point is generally a bad idea and a flat out AWFUL when youre hoping for a fold, as I HOPE you were on the flop. Plus if he's flush drawing youre making it correct for him to call so when he spikes blame yourself for bet-sizing him in, dont curse the poker gods for bad luck.
4) Did you really min-bet the turn again??? All youre doing is handing $ away here. Im not folding Ace-high to min bets cuz theyre usually weak, weak hands like the one youre holding (pp with 2 overs on board).
5) You really didnt min bet the river again did you? WHat were you hoping for here? To get him to fold a better hand or to get paid off by a worse? Cuz u MIGHT get paid off by worse occasionally but noone is EVER folding a better hand here to a friggen min bet. Also, I hoped you mucked to his raise. Yeah, he could be making a move on you (i prolly would cuz limp, minbet, minbet, minbet is an absolutely WEAK looking line) but more than not youre gonna be beat (prolly 90% of the time) so its not a profitable call
Overall (and I dont mean to be a dick but) you pretty much fucked up every single thing you could have on this hand. You HAVE to raise preflop on the button with a PP when its folded to you, dont min-bet EVER (EVER is a bit much but maybe, minbetting just doesnt accomplaish ANYTHING, it doesnt give u info or value), and (Im assuming this is a $20 buy-in or lower) DONT try to make hero calls at this level, ITS NOT profitable and thats what 90% of losing players arte their #1 leaks, all they wanna do is bluff and make hero calls when it is NOT NECESSARY.
I would have :
Raised 2.5-3.5X preflop, then made my standard c-bet preflop and most likely shut it down if I was called. Maybe thats too standard or weak for you but its BY FAR a more profitable way to play the hand than the line you took.
I actually agree with what you stated i should have done and in no way was this a standard method to play the hand.
Can i ask you a question!? fair enough he just check-called the min bet on the flop but what did you think of him check-calling the turn again?? Is he still disguising his hand? is he chasing because he has the odds to play? was it so he could bluff the river?
I think his actions on the turn was what i thought of the most when i made my decision.
shoulda made it about 300 preflop or shoved all in if u had less then 1000 in your stack. forget this hand ever happened
all in at the early stage of a tourny? that's crazy. We started with 2k, if i only had 1k i would not shove it all in when there was only 150 in the pot before SB (my opponent) was still to call.
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Quote Originally Posted by ScamDCappn:
shoulda made it about 300 preflop or shoved all in if u had less then 1000 in your stack. forget this hand ever happened
all in at the early stage of a tourny? that's crazy. We started with 2k, if i only had 1k i would not shove it all in when there was only 150 in the pot before SB (my opponent) was still to call.
I actually agree with what you stated i should have done and in no way was this a standard method to play the hand.
Can i ask you a question!? fair enough he just check-called the min bet on the flop but what did you think of him check-calling the turn again?? Is he still disguising his hand? is he chasing because he has the odds to play? was it so he could bluff the river?
I think his actions on the turn was what i thought of the most when i made my decision.
Bro he saw 3 minimum bets on every sense, it didn't matter what two cards he was holding he knew you would muck to a big re-raise standard play IMO especially when you have the villain covered.
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Quote Originally Posted by 3BallBomber:
I actually agree with what you stated i should have done and in no way was this a standard method to play the hand.
Can i ask you a question!? fair enough he just check-called the min bet on the flop but what did you think of him check-calling the turn again?? Is he still disguising his hand? is he chasing because he has the odds to play? was it so he could bluff the river?
I think his actions on the turn was what i thought of the most when i made my decision.
Bro he saw 3 minimum bets on every sense, it didn't matter what two cards he was holding he knew you would muck to a big re-raise standard play IMO especially when you have the villain covered.
BTW, if you had raised standard, you would have gotten more information about his hand...by min raising, you gave him odds to call with a bunch of hands and thus learned nothing.
don't you also think by him check-calling on the flop and the turn that that in itself gives you some information that you can process!?! Remember when that turn dropped there was now 3 hearts on the board.
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Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
BTW, if you had raised standard, you would have gotten more information about his hand...by min raising, you gave him odds to call with a bunch of hands and thus learned nothing.
don't you also think by him check-calling on the flop and the turn that that in itself gives you some information that you can process!?! Remember when that turn dropped there was now 3 hearts on the board.
Bro he saw 3 minimum bets on every sense, it didn't matter what two cards he was holding he knew you would muck to a big re-raise standard play IMO especially when you have the villain covered.
If you were in his shoes would you believe your opponent would fold on a raise on the last street after you check-called on the flop & turn?
your right though, during the thinking process in this hand it doesn't really matter what hand he is playing i think the betting was a good indication wether he had something or bluffing.
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Quote Originally Posted by AceDeuceShipIt:
Bro he saw 3 minimum bets on every sense, it didn't matter what two cards he was holding he knew you would muck to a big re-raise standard play IMO especially when you have the villain covered.
If you were in his shoes would you believe your opponent would fold on a raise on the last street after you check-called on the flop & turn?
your right though, during the thinking process in this hand it doesn't really matter what hand he is playing i think the betting was a good indication wether he had something or bluffing.
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