How would you have played this hand?

I strongly disagree with both of the bolded statements

Why would any limper outside of potentially the first one have a "monster"? At this stage of the tournament, no one who is even a 4% decent player is going to have a hand like QQ+ and limp with anotherl imper already in, and the BB already in. Makes no sense at all.

Also, why would I make it 3-4k? Thats committing 33-40% of my chips, which at that point i might as well go all in. If maybe made it 2.1k something like that, I could live with 20% of my chips, but thats just too much to put in and if I dont hit the flop then what?

Also, the BB didnt call, the Button called who had limped with 44

I strongly disagree with both of the bolded statements

Why would any limper outside of potentially the first one have a "monster"? At this stage of the tournament, no one who is even a 4% decent player is going to have a hand like QQ+ and limp with anotherl imper already in, and the BB already in. Makes no sense at all.

Also, why would I make it 3-4k? Thats committing 33-40% of my chips, which at that point i might as well go all in. If maybe made it 2.1k something like that, I could live with 20% of my chips, but thats just too much to put in and if I dont hit the flop then what?

Also, the BB didnt call, the Button called who had limped with 44

My apologies to you Crus, I did not read your post correctly.  The fucking button calls your shove with 44.  I do not claim to be a poker pro, but I have seen my share of stupid shit.  I will not sit back and be critical of your play.  Your play was thought out, and the button was feeling "lucky" that day.  Gathering chips in tournaments is fucking tough.  You made a move and just didnt hit your cards.  It was a miracle you were only up agaisnt 44.  Why didnt the button shove on the other limpers rather than call a shove behind him?

Seems the trend of playing tournaments is this small ball shit.  Gavin Smith, Negraneu, Hansen, have made this popular, these guys wanna see a flop because their post flop play is world class.  I like to reraise the 2.5 to 2.7 raise they come out with, but their play aggravates me because they never let me open a pot in position.  But what I do notice is that they do not want to play big pots or commit their whole stack unless they have monster hands.  Check out Hansen's book EVERY HAND REVEALED,  a thought by thought account of his Aussie Millions win over Jimmie Fricke. 

My analysis was wrong due to the sb, button mix up.  However, in that situation do you think a big raise represents more strength than a shove.  If you raise say 2.5 times the pot, do you represent strength or weakness?  I know you will be out of position, but does the raise signify you want action as opposed to the shove.  If I am a limper and you raise big, I take that play as indication of strength.  I limp and you shove, I think you might be squeezing.  The thought crosses my mind but I am not that good to call you with a pair of fours.  

What did the flop bring?  Any scare cards that might have folded the button with a cb?

Best of Luck to you.     

if i remember correctly negreanu did the nl hold em section, doyle did not write the entire thing, he didnt write the entire supersystem either.  youre reading way too much into what he is saying.  theres so many times that qq would be way ahead of another hand surely he doesnt think that its garbage everytime you get it.  i think that chance said it best that he was referring to ppl overplaying aq or qk.

Crus,

The problem is with hands like Ace Queen, Ace King, Tens, Jacks in tourny play is the expection people have of winning with those cards when they get them players want to get all their money in cause they have a "big hand" and they are afraid that they might not win this piticular hand cause somebody cracked their aces the last tourny they played and if they put in 10000 into a 1200 pot that will be enough to scare everyone away then 44 calls and you lose and cant figure out what went wrong or you got beat by a bad player again when infact it was you who made the bad play. If your short in chips I say pushing is a no brainer but because blinds where only 300 you definatley overplayed here. What if you limped and folded? you still have 10100 in chips as apposed to being elimated. I definatley think limping in this spot is a value play. Because with a hand like ace queen if you raise and get called you are either in a race or you are dominated and you know you will have to improve to continue because as you stated it was a tight table..remember there where guys in infront of you so limping probally is the safest play as far as your survival in the tounry(and that is all we are concerned about at this point in the tourny with the stack you had)and if you inprove you win a nice pot.. looking from the 4,4 point of view if you had aces,kings,queens, even ace king mabey, why would you over bet 8000 what are you protecting.I mean if you dont want action with those hands mabey poker isnt your game so calling with the 4,4 is a loose call, I disagree that it is unreasonable play because of your overbet (what could you have had to bet that much)(what where you afriad of?)(there is no way you have a permium hand!!).

  I think where you went wrong was your approach. You probally have read or heard this many times but once you broke in a tourny your out...So with that being the case the object is to survive to the end..Be the last one standing..So why would you ever want to put all your chips in the middle when you have only seen your 2 cards and nothing else to form a logical thought out opinion on the hand? There is nothing wrong with winning small pots with premium hands.A) you continue to add to your stack.B) you are still in the tourny..C)if they get cracked you are still alive..D)you are still alive...As much as Helmuth whines and cries if you listen to an interview with him after a tourny he always always always talks about the rarity of the times his tourny was in jeopardy because all of his chips where nearly never in the middle..There is a reason all you hear from a pro is small ball, small ball because these guys know that aslong as you have chips you can still win. If as you say you where on a tight table and you limpped and somone made a hand and reraised your bet from early postion after the flop you can fold confidently because you know you are beat but you would have lived to see more hands and mabey even win the tourny..Also the advantage to playing smaller pots is that now you can play more pots..And to cool thing is you can actually start to bully a table at a very reduced cost espicially if it is a tight table..

    I hope this helps because it took me along time to relise that I couldn't win a tourny at 150,300 blinds but I sure could lose a my tourny at level.So when I finally relised that aslong as I had chips I have a chance. So instead of worring how much I win I now focus on how much I lose in an hand for hand bases regardless of what I am holding preflop and I have REALLY REALLY improved my results... Postion Small ball is the shyttt...Figure that out and you then become a consistant winner..

i stopped reading after you imply that the 44 call was ok, it was even worse then the push, WAY WORSE.

Quote Originally Posted by Profit01:

Clown..

 

What possible hand could someone have to overbet a pot 8000? I did say it was a loose call it just isn't totally untreasonable to a super aggressive online player (or do you play on line?).. I also didnt say I would have made the call with 4,4...But if you want to get better you might aswell read it (spelling and grammer mistakes aside) because it does make alot of sense..And if it doesn't to you then mabey your game is not at the level I wrote that for which is cool, you will get there someday......Goodluck to you with any and all of your gambling

 so not only cant you spell but you have never seen anyone push with jj or qq in a situation like that completely out of position?  there's plenty of ppl i know that would just shove with jj in that spot.  youre probably one of these fools that every overbet he sees is automatically ak and loves to be ahead 1% in a big pot.  1% ahead or way behind sounds like a great spot to be in

Profit,

Try to ignore the comments of the totally challenged...His advice is so good he charges for it...my therapist is telling me that reading his posts are extremely taxing.

great im gonna have another stalker now like that seahawk idiot who finally is gone i hope.

why dont you comment on the captains hand if you are so intelligent?