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A couple of poker pros gone busto

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Posted: #1

Barry Greenstein and Erik Lindgren. 

Barry Greenstein we'll start with.  Had his house forclosed on rumors he kept money instead of paying mortgage because he owed gambling debts.  Only had 220,000 left on a 2.2 million dollar house.  Hadnt made a payment in over a year.  Also heard he had quite a real estate portfolio to make income off of, bought a lot before the real estate market crashed.  This really hurt him.  Its on 2+2 forum and if you search google or yahoo you can read about it.  https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/pokerstars-pro-barry-greensteins-house-foreclosed-nearly-200k-owed-bank-1279871-print/

 
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Posted: #2

Erick Lindgren owes a bunch of people on fantasy sports.  Multiple people pod at him.  He owes over 150,000.  Hasnt payed in over 3 months.  When they contact him he keeps making excuses why he cant pay or says the check is in the mail and they never recieve money.  He has over 8.5 million in poker earnings.

The full tilt thing hurt him.  He was getting 350,000 a month from full tilt until that ended.  He also owes 4 million dollars to full tilt for loans from them to pay off gambling debts.  Eric on his time on full lost 1.7 million dollars playing cash games.

He has a history of paying up 3 to 9 months down the road but many people rumor he is now cash broke and big names will not side bet with him for fear they wont be paid back. 

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/erick-lindgren-owes-100k-2p2-fantasy-drafts-wont-pay-claims-cash-broke-1174183/

Supposidly he checked into somthing last week to get help but when he gets out cardplayer asked him what he planned on doing and he said gambling.

 
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Posted: #3
Every time I would see barry on T.V he was playing for charity. If this is true that he is broke thats pretty harsh.Hope his luck changes around he seems like a genuine nice guy.
 
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Posted: #4

He just played in the pca 10 main event yesterday in the bahmas, on day 1a yesterday.  He was the 10th player knocked out.   in .  So another 1100 dollar trip down the drain and the 10300 buy in .  https://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2013-pokerstars-caribbean-adventure/10-000-main-event/day1a/chips.htm  Oviously hes playing on borrowed money he hasnt cashed in a big tourney for a long time. 

He didnt play in the super high roller 100,000 buy in.  Their was 47 entries and some rebought but the winner was scott seiver who won somthing like 2.2 million.

 
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Posted: #5

article on super high roller https://www.highstakesdb.com/3534-new-super-high-roller-winner-crowned-at-the-pca.aspx 

day 1 b of main event tourney is going on right now you can get chip counts and updates here just click on the different tabs if your interested https://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2013-pokerstars-caribbean-adventure/10-000-main-event/chips.htm

 
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Posted: #6
WOW!

Barry??!! Really? 

I consider him one of the top pros in the world...

If Barry can go broke, anyone can...
 
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Posted: #7
It's a well kept secret, but almost every Poker Player goes broke at least several times throughout their career.  Why do you think you keep seeing these Poker players selling themselves out on national TV at these poker tournaments wearing all those ugly promotions?
 
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Posted: #8
what about dwan?
 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by packersbackers:

^^^ because there's only one guy in the world named Barry Greenstein, right? Could it be someone else with the same name?

Do you believe everything you read online as 100% fact?



Do you come into threads, say something is probably false with a derogatory "Do you believe..." and then offer no evidence to that fact?

I would go after the OP for posting such a thing, wouldn't you, if you believed it was false? Nah, guess not. Go after a poster who actually knows quite a bit about the high stakes poker community.

That makes you look like the most misinformed of all.

I read a significant portion of the 2+2 thread and it appears likely he owns the property based on what was said within it.

Come back when YOU have something to offer outside a flimsy "same name" garbage. 

How many Barry Greenstein's live in a ridiculous looking million dollar home, typical of the high stakes poker pro lifestyle, within the vicinity of Vegas...

Narrows it down a bit, don't ya think? For all the Barry G's living in say, upstate Maine who you are be default, including in your sample.


 
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Posted: #10

As for eric Lidgren, bluff magazine just did an article about his gambling problems in this months issue. https://www.bluff.com/magazine/broken-the-erick-lindgren-story-6094/  Its well known from reliable sources he is broke.  Lindgren had over 8.5 million in tourney winnings and was making 350,000 a month from full tilt as a sponser and still went broke.

Greenstein has only 7.5 million in tourney earnings, I dont know what he gets from stars for sponsership but its not near that since americans arnt playing online anymore..  Lindgren made well over 1 million more in tourney earnings, much more in sponsership deals and still went broke.  Its really not very hard to believe.

 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by spocsstocks:

As for eric Lidgren, bluff magazine just did an article about his gambling problems in this months issue. https://www.bluff.com/magazine/broken-the-erick-lindgren-story-6094/  Its well known from reliable sources he is broke.  Lindgren had over 8.5 million in tourney winnings and was making 350,000 a month from full tilt as a sponser and still went broke.

Greenstein has only 7.5 million in tourney earnings, I dont know what he gets from stars for sponsership but its not near that since americans arnt playing online anymore..  Lindgren made well over 1 million more in tourney earnings, much more in sponsership deals and still went broke.  Its really not very hard to believe.

Just boggles my mind that these Poker players were getting $350,000 a month in steady cash flow from these poker sites.  What a scam.  I am glad they are all going broke, don't feel bad for them one bit.
 
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Posted: #12
jmitseff got sucked out on by barry in razz event
bigFnPOO
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by Bling:

It's a well kept secret, but almost every Poker Player goes broke at least several times throughout their career.  Why do you think you keep seeing these Poker players selling themselves out on national TV at these poker tournaments wearing all those ugly promotions?

That is why I kept preaching to anyone that would listen that poker pros do not exist and the term is an oxymoron.  Without sponsorships or some other business income to support their high stakes entries and action, NO player can last just on his poker abilities. 

And in  a game that is 80% luck and 20% skill IMO, the guy that wins coin flips will barely stay above water, and the other guy will go broke quickly.  Without sponsorships, a poker player has little chance of making any significant money or surviving long-term.   


  
 
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Posted: #14

Let me know when Eric Seidel is broke and I will quit poker for good.

 
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Posted: #15
Quote Originally Posted by packersbackers:

I find it humorous how people hold such stock in tournament earnings, especially in the US,,,like that's their overall career accomplishments,,,don't forget what the tax man takes off immediately

People don't fully realize that most of these so called pros have always lived and died by the constant daily/weekly/monthly grind of the private cash game tour that exists behind closed doors,,,the familiar names most people recognize from TV from few years ago go broke multiple times a year because they win/lose millions in action each month based on the stakes they play, and how they are running...it's all one scum pool of filth borrowing and lending money to the same group of people,,,it's like what others have mentioned above,,,anyone who appears on TV at a poker table wearing a logo patch for anything other than the name brand of their shirt is likely either broke or living month to month pretending to appear like a successful poker pro

 
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Posted: #16
Vanzack brilliantly posed the question in a thread a while back that once you reach a certain skill level in poker, it comes down to the luck of the draw.  I completely agree, as the only people who are successful long-term took their winnings and parlayed it into some other business venture or wisely just took the money and quit playing all together.
 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

WOW!

Barry??!! Really? 

I consider him one of the top pros in the world...

If Barry can go broke, anyone can...

Anyone can, and almost everyone will.

These guys are the hares in the tortoise and the hare scheme.

Just sit back and wait.  Everyones hero Phil Ivey plays million dollar craps.  Huh?  Most of these guys are degenerates who were outliers on the luck spectrum, and now that sponsorship has dried up - they will go broke one by one.

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Posted: #18

Quote Originally Posted by Bling:

It's a well kept secret, but almost every Poker Player goes broke at least several times throughout their career.  Why do you think you keep seeing these Poker players selling themselves out on national TV at these poker tournaments wearing all those ugly promotions?

Bingo.

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Posted: #19
Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:


That is why I kept preaching to anyone that would listen that poker pros do not exist and the term is an oxymoron.  Without sponsorships or some other business income to support their high stakes entries and action, NO player can last just on his poker abilities. 

And in  a game that is 80% luck and 20% skill IMO, the guy that wins coin flips will barely stay above water, and the other guy will go broke quickly.  Without sponsorships, a poker player has little chance of making any significant money or surviving long-term.   


  

I dont think I have seen a thread at covers with a higher concentration of intelligent posts in the past 12 years.

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Posted: #20
Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:


That is why I kept preaching to anyone that would listen that poker pros do not exist and the term is an oxymoron.  Without sponsorships or some other business income to support their high stakes entries and action, NO player can last just on his poker abilities. 

And in  a game that is 80% luck and 20% skill IMO, the guy that wins coin flips will barely stay above water, and the other guy will go broke quickly.  Without sponsorships, a poker player has little chance of making any significant money or surviving long-term.   


  

 

I have finally found another person that thinks exactly like I do.... Tournament.Poker is 80% luck and 20% skill in my opinion as well...However, the cash games I make it 70% luck and 30% skill as you never really are forced to make stupid desperation moves like in a tourney when the blinds get really high.

Poker is certainly a tough way to make an honest living...The only  true winners are the operators and promoters.

The tournament players have to dodge a 10% "rake" or "vigorish" every time they play. How do you overcome that?

A $500 buy in tourney costs all entrants a minimum of $50 to enter with bigger tourneys costing even more.

Say that particular $500 tourney gets 300 players...Now there goes $15,000 out of the prize pool instantly and into the pockets of the casino....Multiply that by a new tournament each week, year after year, and the card rooms and casinos make out like bandits.

Blackjack only has a house edge of like .60 of a percent.

Poker tourneys take 10% on average out of the prize pool...add in travel and hotel costs...meals, etc. Unless you can repeatedly cash in the top 5 you will eventually go broke and have to admit failure, as most will do.

There will be a select few that can overcome all the pitfalls and stay ahead of the poker game...They are indeed blessed persons and very lucky...Just like the professional baseball players that are born with god given abilities and talents that allow them to throw a baseball 95 mph and get it over the plate most all of the time...And, they can get paid 20-40 million a year to do this so effortlessly and we peons can only watch in awe.

 

 

 

 

 
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Posted: #21
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Anyone can, and almost everyone will.

These guys are the hares in the tortoise and the hare scheme.

Just sit back and wait.  Everyones hero Phil Ivey plays million dollar craps.  Huh?  Most of these guys are degenerates who were outliers on the luck spectrum, and now that sponsorship has dried up - they will go broke one by one.


If Phil goes broke it's because of his craps gambling problem away from the felt, not his poker skill so I'm not sure what you are trying to argue there. Therefore his poker skill supports his degenerate craps gambling habit proving those poker based cash flows are sufficient for long-term success.

With regard to the 20% skill comment, it is completely ridiculous.

Poker isn't a game about coin-flips. If everyone pushed pre-flop or at some point on any street every hand, it would never be a result of skill (unless you count what hole cards you enter the hand with). 

The best pros never let you see their hand, thereby having the worst hand in a significant number of pots and still collecting the entire pot by well-timed bets and aggression. That amounts to a significant portion of their profits they would lose if they didn't bet appropriately.

In a game like blackjack, every hand is seen to the finish which is the reason why the house maintains its small edge for profits over the long-term.

The long-term profiting poker pro maintains their edge through proper reads and bets, and knowing the various ranges of their opponents to make and call value bets, and knowing what their opponent knows about their own ranges and styles and adjusting accordingly, sometimes every hand.

There are so many layers to the skill involved with poker beyond Wiz's obtuse, arbitrary off-base 'percentage' comments which are backed by nothing empirical. 

Tournament poker is completely different than cash games as you know so that's another conversation for another day but most of the above applies to an extent until the donk with 2 million chips just keeps pressing till you are forced into a coin-flip and you bust.


 
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Posted: #22
Quote Originally Posted by packersbackers:

^^^^^

So you think you're an educated follower of the high stake poker community because you read 2+2? 

Google Barry Greenstein, LV, you'll find more than one

You better answer your trailer front porch door, I think the tooth fairy is knocking,,,you're about to get a shiny new quarter 

So you come in a thread, attack a poster who believes the OP, say nothing to the OP who is clearly being duplicitous, and then you attack the very thread he got his information from, a thread you clearly never read because there are many people affirming the foreclosure with credible information, and then laughably, offer NOTHING as counter evidence other than something like "Other Barry G's exist in the world so it MUST be another Barry G." 

I'm sure there is a significant number that exist with that kind of net worth within the vicinity of Vegas.

And by the way, the house isn't even in LV which shows how educated you are with regard to the topic.

Beat it kid, you're wasting my time.
 
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Posted: #23
A well known casino mogul once put it like this:

The top 1% of poker players survive (continue to make their living via poker)
The bottom 90% go broke and never play again
The other 9% float in and out of the poker world. Usually because they have another significant source of income.
 
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Posted: #24
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


If Phil goes broke it's because of his craps gambling problem away from the felt, not his poker skill so I'm not sure what you are trying to argue there. Therefore his poker skill supports his degenerate craps gambling habit proving those poker based cash flows are sufficient for long-term success.

With regard to the 20% skill comment, it is completely ridiculous.

Poker isn't a game about coin-flips. If everyone pushed pre-flop or at some point on any street every hand, it would never be a result of skill (unless you count what hole cards you enter the hand with). 

The best pros never let you see their hand, thereby having the worst hand in a significant number of pots and still collecting the entire pot by well-timed bets and aggression. That amounts to a significant portion of their profits they would lose if they didn't bet appropriately.

In a game like blackjack, every hand is seen to the finish which is the reason why the house maintains its small edge for profits over the long-term.

The long-term profiting poker pro maintains their edge through proper reads and bets, and knowing the various ranges of their opponents to make and call value bets, and knowing what their opponent knows about their own ranges and styles and adjusting accordingly, sometimes every hand.

There are so many layers to the skill involved with poker beyond Wiz's obtuse, arbitrary off-base 'percentage' comments which are backed by nothing empirical. 

Tournament poker is completely different than cash games as you know so that's another conversation for another day but most of the above applies to an extent until the donk with 2 million chips just keeps pressing till you are forced into a coin-flip and you bust.


What you say is true........  for grinders.  For the high stake players it is a little different because the stakes they are playing for a high, even by their standards.  Most don't have the bankroll or cashflow to wait out for the variations to even out and eek your small % advantage.  They usually either hit it big or lose it big, and it is circular. A big loser one month may be the big winner the next, that is why in the interview Lindgren sounds pretty confident that he will be able to eventually pay back the people he owes, because he knows eventually the variations will swing his way.   In the end they just end up pushing chips to each other. 
 
 
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Posted: #25
What if you lead a semi-conservative life as a poker pro?  Sure the buy-ins may be high, but you don't need to lead an extravagant life.  Case in point, Daniel Negreanu
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