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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    One of these times, the mistake of scoring instead of taking a knee....

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    vanzack
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    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:48 PM ET #176

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:

    This really makes no sense.

    If he was all about "sticking it to the Patriots", why were they playing a prevent defense after scoring a touchdown?

    They wound up winning by the same amount of points if they had ended up taking a knee, with the only difference being it was a GUARANTEED WIN..

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:

    This really makes no sense.

    If he was all about "sticking it to the Patriots", why were they playing a prevent defense after scoring a touchdown?

    They wound up winning by the same amount of points if they had ended up taking a knee, with the only difference being it was a GUARANTEED WIN..

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:48 PM ET #177

    Quote Originally Posted by daysbtwin:

    Why do so many people insist on arguing with logic?

    The correct play would have been to down the ball. 100%

    Case closed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daysbtwin:

    Why do so many people insist on arguing with logic?

    The correct play would have been to down the ball. 100%

    Case closed.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:49 PM ET #178

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:


    It's still well over 99% in my opinion to win the game.  I think it is so minute its almost irrelevant, although the proper play is probably to down it.  Still definitely worth celebrating though.  They definitely higher their % to win with a td than other possibilities on that play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:


    It's still well over 99% in my opinion to win the game.  I think it is so minute its almost irrelevant, although the proper play is probably to down it.  Still definitely worth celebrating though.  They definitely higher their % to win with a td than other possibilities on that play.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:50 PM ET #179

    Quote Originally Posted by HRPufnstuf:

    This is LAUGHABLE...

    If Greene goes down at the 1. The Jets take a couple knees and end the game immediately with a 21-14 win.

    By Greene scoring the TD, they let the Patriots march down the field, answer the TD therefore being one onside kick recovery away from having a chance to tie the game. I won't even get into all the injury possibilities to Ellis, DeVito, Scott, Revis, Cromartie, etc. with all those defensive plays that should have NEVER happened.

    It's absolutely asinine and Vanzack is 100% correct. NFL coaching is in crisis mode. The let them score/go down at the 1 stuff will screw somebody over soon in a big game....

    Need I quote more?

    Go ahead.  Let the moron posse take on these guys for a while.  Its dinner time for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HRPufnstuf:

    This is LAUGHABLE...

    If Greene goes down at the 1. The Jets take a couple knees and end the game immediately with a 21-14 win.

    By Greene scoring the TD, they let the Patriots march down the field, answer the TD therefore being one onside kick recovery away from having a chance to tie the game. I won't even get into all the injury possibilities to Ellis, DeVito, Scott, Revis, Cromartie, etc. with all those defensive plays that should have NEVER happened.

    It's absolutely asinine and Vanzack is 100% correct. NFL coaching is in crisis mode. The let them score/go down at the 1 stuff will screw somebody over soon in a big game....

    Need I quote more?

    Go ahead.  Let the moron posse take on these guys for a while.  Its dinner time for me.

     
    bsforsale
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:54 PM ET #180

    when was the last time a team lost after scoring instead of kneeling?

    here's a scenario, 

    bears down three, throw a possible pick six and the packer kneels at midfield. 1:50 left and one timeout.

    packers kneel on first down, bear linebacker comes in on packer right tackle low, he "sweeps the leg", breaks his tibia and fibia, compound fracture, Theismann style. 1:46 left

    packers forced timeout. 

    after they cart the guy off, emotions are high, the packers snap and kneel again and there's a little scuffle, the right guard throws a punch. personal foul. 1:41 left

    after the refs regain peace the packers face a 3rd and 30 at their own 30. the bears still have a timeout. GAME ON!

    plausible, possible?


    the real question here at the "adult table" is...

    do you want an idiot player that's pumped up on emotion that's just intercepted a pass with nothing but green in between him and "game clinching" touchdown to do the mathematics on time left on the clock and time outs remaining... or if the two minute warming will make a difference. what if you kneeled a couple seconds early? these arent things you think about in the heat of battle. in the case of obvious, 30 seconds left and no timeout? yes, kneel, but how much time was left in the pats/jets game? almost two minutes? i think i'd rather my player error on aggression than with a calculator and slide ruler. "sorry coach, i forgot to carry the one". 

    could it be plausible that an early kneeling could cost a team a win more than a team coming back from a two touchdown deficit?
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    when was the last time a team lost after scoring instead of kneeling?

    here's a scenario, 

    bears down three, throw a possible pick six and the packer kneels at midfield. 1:50 left and one timeout.

    packers kneel on first down, bear linebacker comes in on packer right tackle low, he "sweeps the leg", breaks his tibia and fibia, compound fracture, Theismann style. 1:46 left

    packers forced timeout. 

    after they cart the guy off, emotions are high, the packers snap and kneel again and there's a little scuffle, the right guard throws a punch. personal foul. 1:41 left

    after the refs regain peace the packers face a 3rd and 30 at their own 30. the bears still have a timeout. GAME ON!

    plausible, possible?


    the real question here at the "adult table" is...

    do you want an idiot player that's pumped up on emotion that's just intercepted a pass with nothing but green in between him and "game clinching" touchdown to do the mathematics on time left on the clock and time outs remaining... or if the two minute warming will make a difference. what if you kneeled a couple seconds early? these arent things you think about in the heat of battle. in the case of obvious, 30 seconds left and no timeout? yes, kneel, but how much time was left in the pats/jets game? almost two minutes? i think i'd rather my player error on aggression than with a calculator and slide ruler. "sorry coach, i forgot to carry the one". 

    could it be plausible that an early kneeling could cost a team a win more than a team coming back from a two touchdown deficit?
     
    gfinger
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 6:58 PM ET #181

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    And with that supreme piece of stupidity, I rest my case.



    Yep and you still have yet to show me an NFL game where a team was up 7, went up 14 instead of taking a knee to end the game, then ended up losing the game. You know why you can't produce me that game?
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    And with that supreme piece of stupidity, I rest my case.



    Yep and you still have yet to show me an NFL game where a team was up 7, went up 14 instead of taking a knee to end the game, then ended up losing the game. You know why you can't produce me that game?
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:04 PM ET #182

    Quote Originally Posted by bsforsale:

    when was the last time a team lost after scoring instead of kneeling?

    here's a scenario, 

    bears down three, throw a possible pick six and the packer kneels at midfield. 1:50 left and one timeout.

    packers kneel on first down, bear linebacker comes in on packer right tackle low, he "sweeps the leg", breaks his tibia and fibia, compound fracture, Theismann style. 1:46 left

    packers forced timeout. 

    after they cart the guy off, emotions are high, the packers snap and kneel again and there's a little scuffle, the right guard throws a punch. personal foul. 1:41 left

    after the refs regain peace the packers face a 3rd and 30 at their own 30. the bears still have a timeout. GAME ON!

    plausible, possible?


    the real question here at the "adult table" is...

    do you want an idiot player that's pumped up on emotion that's just intercepted a pass with nothing but green in between him and "game clinching" touchdown to do the mathematics on time left on the clock and time outs remaining... or if the two minute warming will make a difference. what if you kneeled a couple seconds early? these arent things you think about in the heat of battle. in the case of obvious, 30 seconds left and no timeout? yes, kneel, but how much time was left in the pats/jets game? almost two minutes? i think i'd rather my player error on aggression than with a calculator and slide ruler. "sorry coach, i forgot to carry the one". 

    could it be plausible that an early kneeling could cost a team a win more than a team coming back from a two touchdown deficit?

    Well, at least you (finally someone) made a case that kneeling has a lower probability than kicking off.  For that I give you credit.

    For the content of your debate, I cant give you any credit.

    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.  All the coaching staff had to do on the Jets was say:  "If you get past the 10 yard line, go down instead of scoring".  I am open to the debate that a player has a hard time determining game situation in the heat of battle, but this was after a timeout, and a clear instruction could have been given to go down after the 10 yard line.

    So in conclusion, yes your series of events could happen.  But I would say you are making an argument that you have a better chance of blowing up the earth with a toy gun rather than a nuclear weapon, simply because it is plausible and neither have happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsforsale:

    when was the last time a team lost after scoring instead of kneeling?

    here's a scenario, 

    bears down three, throw a possible pick six and the packer kneels at midfield. 1:50 left and one timeout.

    packers kneel on first down, bear linebacker comes in on packer right tackle low, he "sweeps the leg", breaks his tibia and fibia, compound fracture, Theismann style. 1:46 left

    packers forced timeout. 

    after they cart the guy off, emotions are high, the packers snap and kneel again and there's a little scuffle, the right guard throws a punch. personal foul. 1:41 left

    after the refs regain peace the packers face a 3rd and 30 at their own 30. the bears still have a timeout. GAME ON!

    plausible, possible?


    the real question here at the "adult table" is...

    do you want an idiot player that's pumped up on emotion that's just intercepted a pass with nothing but green in between him and "game clinching" touchdown to do the mathematics on time left on the clock and time outs remaining... or if the two minute warming will make a difference. what if you kneeled a couple seconds early? these arent things you think about in the heat of battle. in the case of obvious, 30 seconds left and no timeout? yes, kneel, but how much time was left in the pats/jets game? almost two minutes? i think i'd rather my player error on aggression than with a calculator and slide ruler. "sorry coach, i forgot to carry the one". 

    could it be plausible that an early kneeling could cost a team a win more than a team coming back from a two touchdown deficit?

    Well, at least you (finally someone) made a case that kneeling has a lower probability than kicking off.  For that I give you credit.

    For the content of your debate, I cant give you any credit.

    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.  All the coaching staff had to do on the Jets was say:  "If you get past the 10 yard line, go down instead of scoring".  I am open to the debate that a player has a hard time determining game situation in the heat of battle, but this was after a timeout, and a clear instruction could have been given to go down after the 10 yard line.

    So in conclusion, yes your series of events could happen.  But I would say you are making an argument that you have a better chance of blowing up the earth with a toy gun rather than a nuclear weapon, simply because it is plausible and neither have happened.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:05 PM ET #183

    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:



    Yep and you still have yet to show me an NFL game where a team was up 7, went up 14 instead of taking a knee to end the game, then ended up losing the game. You know why you can't produce me that game?

    I can no longer discuss this with you.

    You have repeatedly made yourself out to be not qualified, and therefore I am going to decide that you are not able to understand what is being discussed and it is not my job to educate you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:



    Yep and you still have yet to show me an NFL game where a team was up 7, went up 14 instead of taking a knee to end the game, then ended up losing the game. You know why you can't produce me that game?

    I can no longer discuss this with you.

    You have repeatedly made yourself out to be not qualified, and therefore I am going to decide that you are not able to understand what is being discussed and it is not my job to educate you.

     
    shrimp1958
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:07 PM ET #184

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I was at that Eagle/Skins game,thought he had lost his mind,until I realized he was preventing the Skins from having a chance to get the ball back...The Eagles didn't cover the game,but it was the right play...no question..MJD also did it 2 years ago...Jags won too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I was at that Eagle/Skins game,thought he had lost his mind,until I realized he was preventing the Skins from having a chance to get the ball back...The Eagles didn't cover the game,but it was the right play...no question..MJD also did it 2 years ago...Jags won too...

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:07 PM ET #185

    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    So until a team loses a game by not taking a knee and goes up 14 points instead vs. a team taking a knee and fumbles the snap, neither has happened ever, so right now both are 100% perfect ways to end a game. Until one of these things fail to win the game at the end, then you can start saying which one is the better percentage play, until then you will have to stop it with these type of threads about how you think you are so superior to rest of the world.

    In the context of this thread - I would nominate the above post for the densest post in the history of the universe.

    I have read it again and again, and simply cannot believe that thoughts like this are possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    So until a team loses a game by not taking a knee and goes up 14 points instead vs. a team taking a knee and fumbles the snap, neither has happened ever, so right now both are 100% perfect ways to end a game. Until one of these things fail to win the game at the end, then you can start saying which one is the better percentage play, until then you will have to stop it with these type of threads about how you think you are so superior to rest of the world.

    In the context of this thread - I would nominate the above post for the densest post in the history of the universe.

    I have read it again and again, and simply cannot believe that thoughts like this are possible.

     
    gfinger
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:12 PM ET #186

    It's cool vanzack, I realize my intellect dwarfs whatever you got. I trumped all your cheap shit on this thread yet once again.
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    It's cool vanzack, I realize my intellect dwarfs whatever you got. I trumped all your cheap shit on this thread yet once again.
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:22 PM ET #187

    Im going to quote some of the other idiots in here who agree with me so that you guys can argue with them too.

    And then what?

    No matter how many times you make the assertion, it doesn't become true.

    This is just like talking to a child that learned a big word.

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    Im going to quote some of the other idiots in here who agree with me so that you guys can argue with them too.

    And then what?

    No matter how many times you make the assertion, it doesn't become true.

    This is just like talking to a child that learned a big word.

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:23 PM ET #188

    In the context of this thread - I would nominate the above post for the densest post in the history of the universe.

    Who cares what you have to say?

    You're someone who doesn't even grasp what "probability" means.
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    In the context of this thread - I would nominate the above post for the densest post in the history of the universe.

    Who cares what you have to say?

    You're someone who doesn't even grasp what "probability" means.
     
    bsforsale
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:25 PM ET #189

    van, lil bit hoity toity in this thread, but it's all good as usual. its fun to push the envelope. liked your insights on the 60 minutes Walters thing.

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    van, lil bit hoity toity in this thread, but it's all good as usual. its fun to push the envelope. liked your insights on the 60 minutes Walters thing.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:29 PM ET #190

    Quote Originally Posted by bsforsale:

    van, lil bit hoity toity in this thread, but it's all good as usual. its fun to push the envelope. liked your insights on the 60 minutes Walters thing.

    Watch the piece again and tell me if it doesnt look like one of those cheesy lite beer commercials where the ugly guy gets the hot babe.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsforsale:

    van, lil bit hoity toity in this thread, but it's all good as usual. its fun to push the envelope. liked your insights on the 60 minutes Walters thing.

    Watch the piece again and tell me if it doesnt look like one of those cheesy lite beer commercials where the ugly guy gets the hot babe.

     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:31 PM ET #191

    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.

    Actually, it was 2nd & 6.

    Bozo.
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    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.

    Actually, it was 2nd & 6.

    Bozo.
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:33 PM ET #192

    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

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    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:33 PM ET #193

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.

    Actually, it was 2nd & 6.

    Bozo.

    You got me.

    2nd down instead of 3rd (after a timeout, so the point is still the same, it could have been 1st through 4th, wouldnt have mattered, but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion).

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    BTW - it was after a timeout.  It was 3rd down.

    Actually, it was 2nd & 6.

    Bozo.

    You got me.

    2nd down instead of 3rd (after a timeout, so the point is still the same, it could have been 1st through 4th, wouldnt have mattered, but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion).

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:34 PM ET #194

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

     
    zooyorkinc
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:36 PM ET #195

    I skipped ahead, did the dude ever explain how you can lose with a royal flush?
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    I skipped ahead, did the dude ever explain how you can lose with a royal flush?
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:36 PM ET #196

    but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion

    Hysterical.

    What is important is you've revealed yourself to be such a clown.

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    but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion

    Hysterical.

    What is important is you've revealed yourself to be such a clown.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:36 PM ET #197

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

    I think we have gotten off subject....

    Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?  Or can you make a case that kneeling down is worse than kicking off?

    Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

    (I expect total avoidance to this request because as you state, you prefer to deflect instead of debate the topic)

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    and it is not my job to educate you.




    You don't know what "probability" means.

    You don't even know the down the play occurred on.

    EPIC Fail...

    I think we have gotten off subject....

    Can you reread my original post and tell me where you disagree?  Or can you make a case that kneeling down is worse than kicking off?

    Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

    (I expect total avoidance to this request because as you state, you prefer to deflect instead of debate the topic)

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:37 PM ET #198

    Quote Originally Posted by zooyorkinc:

    I skipped ahead, did the dude ever explain how you can lose with a royal flush?

    Nope.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooyorkinc:

    I skipped ahead, did the dude ever explain how you can lose with a royal flush?

    Nope.

     

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:39 PM ET #199

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion

    Hysterical.

    What is important is you've revealed yourself to be such a clown.

    Well, I would say that whether it was 3rd down or 2nd down is immaterial, while you seem to base your whole case on it.

    I would also say that stating something is "hysterical" doesnt make it so.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

    but I see you have a hard time seeing what is important and what isnt in a discussion

    Hysterical.

    What is important is you've revealed yourself to be such a clown.

    Well, I would say that whether it was 3rd down or 2nd down is immaterial, while you seem to base your whole case on it.

    I would also say that stating something is "hysterical" doesnt make it so.

     
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 17, 2011 - 7:40 PM ET #200

    Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

    Really?

    You have no data to back up your assertion.

    You don't even know what probability means.

    Your assertion is incorrect.

    I've stated this a number of times now.
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    Either would be great, because you do a lot of chirping, and have never addressed the point.

    Really?

    You have no data to back up your assertion.

    You don't even know what probability means.

    Your assertion is incorrect.

    I've stated this a number of times now.
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