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Im bored. No sports for me to bet on. How about a religion thread?

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Posted: #626

god does heal amputees.  god doesn't like humans because

they are mostly assholes and mean to the gay people god

 created.    the sea star is pretty like gay people ,

god loves them and does heal them when they lose a limb. 

 
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Posted: #627

The real cost of religious faith. If this doesn't say it all,

I don't know what does...

 

i just listened to this.  we really don't disagree on faith. 

 they shun faith completely but i think they define it in religious

 terms as i did in one respect.  by definition, faith includes jsut

trust or confidence in something, not necessarily dependent upon

evidence, which we all have in some respects, but that's really

semantics.

he does make a good point that makes a good question for

christians.  i, vanzack, system and others have raised this issue

in various ways before but the atheist guys phrases it very well. 

there are a thousand + religions with no actual evidence which

one is the right one or if any of them are correct in their

discussions of their god or gods.  if faith is required to follow your

religion, what distinguishes your religion from any of the many

others?  in other words, if you aren't dealing with evidence, why

choose yours over any of the others?  i know a lot of people do

what their parents or friends did or what they learned as a child

(you go with what you know) but what about the other people?

 

 
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Posted: #628
this # is great to call for a laugh if you like this topic 908-752-3615
 
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Posted: #629
 
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Posted: #630
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

 

if faith is required to follow your

religion, what distinguishes your religion from any of the many

others?  in other words, if you aren't dealing with evidence, why

choose yours over any of the others? 


Jesus was a historical person.  That is accepted as fact by almost everyone sane (call is science - or history - if you will).

And I will say again...give a plausible explanation for jesus' resurrection being a contrived story.  you can't because there is not one.  it is the most LOGICAL historical explanation.  they didn't even have a category for resurrection in biblical times, much less make it up in the face of eyewitnesses.
 
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Posted: #631
Rostos - i do not have faith that there is other life in the universe. I believe there is based on the mathematical probability of life existing elsewhere based on the vast size of the universe and how unlikely it is that human beings are the only intelligent life anywhere. The universe is billions and billions of light years wide. It is logical to conclude that there is a higher likelihood of other life existing besides humans than not. Do not call this faith.
 
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Posted: #632
sims, i'm not exactly sure what you are asking but i'm going to go ahead and stick with my belief that no one has ever died and come back later without the benefit of a defibrillator, cpr or other medical procedure because i've never know it to happen and i've never spoken to anyone reliable who has seen it happen.

it may be written in some book that was written in some foreign language many years ago and interpreted and translated and reinterpreted and retranslated and passed down based on what some people i don't know passed on to some other people who extrapolated stories from what they heard and provided some version of those stories to another person who may have written what he thought he heard in some language i don't recognize..  
 
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Posted: #633

WOW, i see the term "faith", is being changed and equivicated to whatever suits that person.

KittyKatz, u are pointing to SIGNPOSTS that there is other forms of life. Yet you have NOT witnessed other forms of life but you believe there are. I am afraid to say, you HAVE FAITH that there are other forms of life.

Clubdirt, u said u are married. At the time you got married, were either you or wife 100% certain for a FACT that either of you will be married at tleast until one of you die? ie, you will NOT break up cause you might grow apart or find someone else etc etc (i think u get the drift of what i am trying to say). The answer is, of course NOT, you are NOT guaranteed that you will remain married till one of you die. So why did you enter into marriage if it is NOT 100% full proof guaranteed? Cause you have faith.......

At the end of the day EVERYONE has faith in one way shape or form.

When anyone here goes to a resteraunt, there is a chance, very small albeit that the chef will poison you. You DONT KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE CHEF WONT POISON YOU, so when you go to the resteraunt, do u ask to watch the chef cook your food so he doesnt poison you?

The answer is NO, Why? cause you have FAITH THAT HE DOESNT.

When you drive your car, do you have 100% scientific fact that the person in the other lane WONT swerve at you and write you off? Of course NOT. So why do you still drive? Cause you have faith that fellow motorists wont.

EVERYONE here has faith in one way or another, if you didnt, you couldnt practically live.

So why do i get bashed for having faith in God?

 

 
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Posted: #634
rostos, i agree with you on that.  i agree that everyone likely has faith in some aspect of their lives.  but i would make some distinctions.  first, not all faiths are equal.  some make more sense than others.  some faiths are based on slight evidence or mathematical likelihoods that may put them on a fine line between faith and something more concrete and educated.  

for instance i would say a belief in alien life may be considered faith if you define it as some level of confidence, which is one definition.  but i can see someone thinking it's stronger than that if you based that belief on the fact that we exist, we are just one tiny part of a larger universe and it's logical and probable to think that there is life elswhere given how big the universe is presumed to be.  call it faith or not, it's semantics, but i think it's a more educated belief than the belief in hell which has no basis in fact, logic or probabilities.

as for the marriage xample, i think it is well taken.  i had faith it was the right thing to do or i wouldn't have done it (although you wonder what a lot of people are thinking).  call it faith but i think it's a stronger faith or belief because it is based on tangibles- we were together for a while before getting married, we have observed other examples of marriages that work and we seem to get along pretty well.  so it may be faith but it's based on some evidence and logical analysis.  hell, on the other hand is pure faith.  

so anyway, i would agree everyone has faith, and there's nothing wrong with faith.  it's a human characteristic.  but not all faiths are created equal and pure faith is just a wild guess and should never be used to set policies, standards or affect anyone else.  
 
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Posted: #635
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

rostos, i agree with you on that.  i agree that everyone likely has faith in some aspect of their lives.  but i would make some distinctions.  first, not all faiths are equal.  some make more sense than others.  some faiths are based on slight evidence or mathematical likelihoods that may put them on a fine line between faith and something more concrete and educated.  

for instance i would say a belief in alien life may be considered faith if you define it as some level of confidence, which is one definition.  but i can see someone thinking it's stronger than that if you based that belief on the fact that we exist, we are just one tiny part of a larger universe and it's logical and probable to think that there is life elswhere given how big the universe is presumed to be.  call it faith or not, it's semantics, but i think it's a more educated belief than the belief in hell which has no basis in fact, logic or probabilities.

as for the marriage xample, i think it is well taken.  i had faith it was the right thing to do or i wouldn't have done it (although you wonder what a lot of people are thinking).  call it faith but i think it's a stronger faith or belief because it is based on tangibles- we were together for a while before getting married, we have observed other examples of marriages that work and we seem to get along pretty well.  so it may be faith but it's based on some evidence and logical analysis.  hell, on the other hand is pure faith.  

so anyway, i would agree everyone has faith, and there's nothing wrong with faith.  it's a human characteristic.  but not all faiths are created equal and pure faith is just a wild guess and should never be used to set policies, standards or affect anyone else.  

Agreed, i like to look at faith where it makes up the shortfall between signposts and 100% certainty.

I, simply me, i cant talk about anyone else, but i consider the origins of the universe, fine tuning and order in the universe as extremely strong signposts for Gods existence, combined with the bible and my experience. Its as simple as that.

A non believer has FAITH that science will one day find the answer to the origins and fine tuning of the universe. Or the non believer has faith that it is anything but God as the origins. Again, Faith. Its where you want to put it.....

 
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Posted: #636
and you could also do the opposite and say why would you believe in science when, for thousands of years, science has been disproved over and over again.  so, based on probability (or math) there is high probability that today's science is wrong in a lot of ways.

you guys are completely ignoring the foundational BELIEFS that you have.   they may be mathematically most true today, but why be so short-sighted.  they are probably untrue a thousand years from now.  and this is what you are basing your life on...something that is probably untrue.

sound familiar?
 
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Posted: #637
The problem with the Bible is that there are no other corroborating works of literature. Wouldn't you think there should be?
 
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Posted: #638
Whoa, whoa, whoa...  When was the existence of Jesus ever proven??  The "story" of Jesus wasn't even original 2000 years ago...  Just watch...

Watch

I especially like when the woman says, "I believe it because it's true."  That makes me laugh every time.  Complete ignorance on display.  EVERYONE should watch this movie...

A lot of the Bible is just nonsense.  Over time Kings would have themselves written into it.
 
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Posted: #639
Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:


Jesus was a historical person.  That is accepted as fact by almost everyone sane (call is science - or history - if you will).

And I will say again...give a plausible explanation for jesus' resurrection being a contrived story.  you can't because there is not one.  it is the most LOGICAL historical explanation.  they didn't even have a category for resurrection in biblical times, much less make it up in the face of eyewitnesses.

Is Jesus a historical figure?


Do you believe "god" sacrificed his only son? If yes, what kind of sacrifice is that, when he rose again after three days  He might have gone through a lot of pain, but many people were crucified during those times...so how was this a sacrifice?
 
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Posted: #640
Quote Originally Posted by sims_key:


Jesus was a historical person.  That is accepted as fact by almost everyone sane (call is science - or history - if you will).

And I will say again...give a plausible explanation for jesus' resurrection being a contrived story.  you can't because there is not one.  it is the most LOGICAL historical explanation.  they didn't even have a category for resurrection in biblical times, much less make it up in the face of eyewitnesses.


False...  Horus was believed to be resurrected... Try again...
 
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Posted: #641
Why don't we have anything written by Jesus? Why don't we know anything about him during his toddler and teen years? How come all accounts of him and what he said were second hand and came long after he died? hmmmmmmmmmmmm 
 
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Posted: #642
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

Why don't we have anything written by Jesus? Why don't we know anything about him during his toddler and teen years? How come all accounts of him and what he said were second hand and came long after he died? hmmmmmmmmmmmm 


Welllllll because it was made up
 
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Posted: #643

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

Whoa, whoa, whoa...  When was the existence of Jesus ever proven??  The "story" of Jesus wasn't even original 2000 years ago...  Just watch...

Watch

I especially like when the woman says, "I believe it because it's true."  That makes me laugh every time.  Complete ignorance on display.  EVERYONE should watch this movie...

A lot of the Bible is just nonsense.  Over time Kings would have themselves written into it.

WOW, why dont u do the research yourselves first and you will realise from the evidence that they are completely different.

 
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Posted: #644
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


Is Jesus a historical figure?


Do you believe "god" sacrificed his only son? If yes, what kind of sacrifice is that, when he rose again after three days  He might have gone through a lot of pain, but many people were crucified during those times...so how was this a sacrifice?

The majority of the the most respected historical scholars accept as true the life including the reserection of Jesus.

But System said it is not true, so it musnt........

 
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Posted: #645
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

WOW, why dont u do the research yourselves first and you will realise from the evidence that they are completely different.



Ok, show me evidence then (if you can)...
 
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Posted: #646

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Welllllll because it was made up

So everything written by man is fallacious, so everything u write is fallacious?

 
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Posted: #647
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

The majority of the the most respected historical scholars accept as true the life including the reserection of Jesus.

But System said it is not true, so it musnt........



So you're saying there is no proof?  You're going by what other people "think"?
 
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Posted: #648

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



Ok, show me evidence then (if you can)...

I have been through this 1 mill times on this site.

Here is a video, watch and learn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4

 
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Posted: #649
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

So everything written by man is fallacious, so everything u write is fallacious?



Did I say that?  No...  But a lot of what is written in the bible is untrue, so who is to say the story of Jesus is true?
 
 
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Posted: #650

Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:



So you're saying there is no proof?  You're going by what other people "think"?

I absolutely accept Christ as the only way.

I was being sarcastic at system

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