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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 142143144 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    KittyKatz286
    SirJohnDrake
    matt4000
    Sugarbear19
    smoothd20
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    KittyKatz286
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 27, 2011 - 9:13 PM ET #3526

    To further this: here is how I could prove Harry Potter exists.

    Let's say I discovered Hogwarts in real life. And this Hogwarts is exactly as described in the book. There is clear and convincing evidence of Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger. There are magical pictures on the wall and I can talk to Albus Dumbledore and Severus Snape. Then, we could establish Harry Potter most likely exists.

    How could you prove the bible is true? NOT BY SAYING IT IS THE WORD OF GOD. (unless of course, you prove god exists WITHOUT using the bible, if you prove god exists, then you can prove the validity of what's in the bible). However, let's leave out god for now. How could you prove the bible is true? You would present external evidence of events or persons described in the bible. That would be acceptable. You cannot use the bible to validate the bible.
    Reply
    To further this: here is how I could prove Harry Potter exists.

    Let's say I discovered Hogwarts in real life. And this Hogwarts is exactly as described in the book. There is clear and convincing evidence of Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger. There are magical pictures on the wall and I can talk to Albus Dumbledore and Severus Snape. Then, we could establish Harry Potter most likely exists.

    How could you prove the bible is true? NOT BY SAYING IT IS THE WORD OF GOD. (unless of course, you prove god exists WITHOUT using the bible, if you prove god exists, then you can prove the validity of what's in the bible). However, let's leave out god for now. How could you prove the bible is true? You would present external evidence of events or persons described in the bible. That would be acceptable. You cannot use the bible to validate the bible.
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 27, 2011 - 9:23 PM ET #3527

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    To further this: here is how I could prove Harry Potter exists.

    I guess you didn't understand me the first time...so let me say it one more time.

    who cares? certainly I don't care one bit.

    Again let's get back to the Holy Bible so I can make a valid point.

    The reason why there can never be any outside source to prove the Holy Bible is the truth is because no one can ever verity that if you accept/reject Jesus Christ our Lord Savior that you will either go to heaven/hell.

    With that said, my faith tells me everything in the Holy Bible is the truth because it is the Word of God, so heaven/hell is the real deal.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    To further this: here is how I could prove Harry Potter exists.

    I guess you didn't understand me the first time...so let me say it one more time.

    who cares? certainly I don't care one bit.

    Again let's get back to the Holy Bible so I can make a valid point.

    The reason why there can never be any outside source to prove the Holy Bible is the truth is because no one can ever verity that if you accept/reject Jesus Christ our Lord Savior that you will either go to heaven/hell.

    With that said, my faith tells me everything in the Holy Bible is the truth because it is the Word of God, so heaven/hell is the real deal.

     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 27, 2011 - 11:52 PM ET #3528

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that

    Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from

    https://www.gotquestions.org/argument-existence-God.html

    I already stated earlier that when I was in school that many of my answers where coming from their website.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    Hey matt... I was going to continue our debate and attempting to debunk some of your claims, but I'm starting to suspect that you are not answering these questions yourself, but instead stealing from other people who have attempted to answer the same thing. I don't appreciate you plagiarizing from another in order to provide an unnecessarily dense response. Please understand that this is the only reason I will not continue to debate with you... You answers are well-structured but still logically implausible, and although I wanted to thank you for trying to valiantly to answer me, it seems all you've done is copy and paste and I don't appreciate that

    Here is the website I believe you took your second answer almost word for word from

    https://www.gotquestions.org/argument-existence-God.html

    I already stated earlier that when I was in school that many of my answers where coming from their website.
     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:02 AM ET #3529

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Now you're accusing me of plagiarizing like your friend matt?  That's funny.

    My arguments have no holes.  What you are attempting to do is question my motives, which we have already established is not a valid argument strategy...

    I didn't plagiarize anything.  I already told Kittykat that I was going to use the website to get those answers. 

    The questions that he was asking the great majority (if not close to all) would have no clue what he is talking about, unless they went to some form of a higher Christian education in order to learn about it.

    I already stated that I was going to go to their website in order to get the some of the answers to his questions, otherwise he would not get an answer to his questions from anyone in here.

    I could still give him answers, if he wants me to. Either way, though I think it won't be suffice for him.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Now you're accusing me of plagiarizing like your friend matt?  That's funny.

    My arguments have no holes.  What you are attempting to do is question my motives, which we have already established is not a valid argument strategy...

    I didn't plagiarize anything.  I already told Kittykat that I was going to use the website to get those answers. 

    The questions that he was asking the great majority (if not close to all) would have no clue what he is talking about, unless they went to some form of a higher Christian education in order to learn about it.

    I already stated that I was going to go to their website in order to get the some of the answers to his questions, otherwise he would not get an answer to his questions from anyone in here.

    I could still give him answers, if he wants me to. Either way, though I think it won't be suffice for him.
     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:10 AM ET #3530

    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    I got tons of material from when I was in college and can access articles from my school's web page.

    That is some of what I still had on my files.

    Anyway, I am off to bed.

    Here is when I said it.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    I got tons of material from when I was in college and can access articles from my school's web page.

    That is some of what I still had on my files.

    Anyway, I am off to bed.

    Here is when I said it.
     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:16 AM ET #3531

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    I have gotten ONE attempt at answering these questions, and all the volunteer could do was plagiarize from other websites and give obscenely dense and logically unsound answers... Therefore, to those other than copyright infringers like Matt, I have some questions, and I STILL want some answers:

    1) Ex4Life, Rostos, Smoothd have ALL admitted that the Bible has been edited, changed, rewritten, parts lost, etc. By comparison, if I showed you an old history book and said: "Out of 20 chapters, 8 of them are historically inaccurate because of rewrites or missing pieces," you wouldn't give the book a second look. In Ex4Life's masterpiece composition of idiocy (where he uses lines from the BIBLE to prove that the BIBLE is true, a method that would get him laughed out of even special education classes), even he admits that it's a book that's been written by 50+ authors over 1000+, not to mention we have NO IDEA what's supposed to be "metaphor" and what's "real." So:

    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    a) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    b) But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

    c) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    YOU CAN'T STEAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE. DO NOT MAKE THE ANSWERS PAGES AND PAGES LONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT. Oh, and as always:

    IF ANYBODY TRIES TO REFERENCE THE BIBLE FOR ANY ANSWERS, YOU'RE A MORON. YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS

    Will give you more simplified and precise answers, but stand 100% by what I already posted before, cause we were all trained under the teachings of those above us, so my answers coincide with them.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    I have gotten ONE attempt at answering these questions, and all the volunteer could do was plagiarize from other websites and give obscenely dense and logically unsound answers... Therefore, to those other than copyright infringers like Matt, I have some questions, and I STILL want some answers:

    1) Ex4Life, Rostos, Smoothd have ALL admitted that the Bible has been edited, changed, rewritten, parts lost, etc. By comparison, if I showed you an old history book and said: "Out of 20 chapters, 8 of them are historically inaccurate because of rewrites or missing pieces," you wouldn't give the book a second look. In Ex4Life's masterpiece composition of idiocy (where he uses lines from the BIBLE to prove that the BIBLE is true, a method that would get him laughed out of even special education classes), even he admits that it's a book that's been written by 50+ authors over 1000+, not to mention we have NO IDEA what's supposed to be "metaphor" and what's "real." So:

    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    a) "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    b) But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

    c) Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    YOU CAN'T STEAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE. DO NOT MAKE THE ANSWERS PAGES AND PAGES LONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT. Oh, and as always:

    IF ANYBODY TRIES TO REFERENCE THE BIBLE FOR ANY ANSWERS, YOU'RE A MORON. YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE AS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS

    Will give you more simplified and precise answers, but stand 100% by what I already posted before, cause we were all trained under the teachings of those above us, so my answers coincide with them.
     
    KittyKatz286
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:30 AM ET #3532

    Just remember Matt, you can't make assumptions and use them as foundations for logical statements.

    Example: If A then B. If B then C. Therefore, If A, then C. If you are assuming A, you cannot use it in the statement. That's all. (you can qualify it though by saying ASSUMING A is true...) that's ok, but it would essentially render your argument weak.
    Reply
    Just remember Matt, you can't make assumptions and use them as foundations for logical statements.

    Example: If A then B. If B then C. Therefore, If A, then C. If you are assuming A, you cannot use it in the statement. That's all. (you can qualify it though by saying ASSUMING A is true...) that's ok, but it would essentially render your argument weak.
     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:47 AM ET #3533

    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    I do not believe that any of it was changed from it's original state.
    The Original Autograghs are authentic and have not been changes or altered in any way.

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    As I have already stated. The Bible is to be taken literally throughout, as much as you possibly can. And it must always be kept in context.

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    Since Jehovah chose God's chosen people... the person, it is the oldest and first religion known to man. Jesus fulfilled all that was in the Old Testament and followers of Christ were mocked and persecuted with the label "Christians". So, actually God dislikes religion. This is something that man instituted. God wanted followers and lovers of Him, not an organized religion.

    It is stood the test of time, persecution and countless attacks by man over the centuries.

    Out of all the other religions, it is the only one where there is a way for man to be saved by grace and not by man's works. It is the only one where one doesn't have to earn salvation/eternal life, but it is provided to man FREELY.

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood.

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    One is not God's child, until he/she is born again and becomes his son/daughter, so everyone is NOT God's child.

    Biblical interpretation must follow certain guidelines and principles in order for it to be properly understood.

    Must keep the verses in Context.

    We must remember the Bible was written to the original audience of the people at that time. So, certain controversial subjects and issues that pertained to their time period was addressed in the Bible at that time.

    Each passage has only one correct interpretation, but obviously can have many applications that apply to someone or something in many various ways.

    There are many other ways to understand how to correctly read and interpret the Bible, that I will not address right now.

    I am answering your question by stating the above because I do not think that you are correctly interpreting what the Bible says or else you would not be asking this question.

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    Yes, a Authentic Christian would say there will be a void/blind without Christ in one's life. But, I think that that void can be filled in other Spiritual ways that are outside of Christianity, but that person according to what Christ teaches is in error.

    I believe that one can find truth in many other ways in life outside of Christianity, but ultimately Christ stated that he IS the truth. So all truth in this world, must be filtered through Christ first, in order to see if it really is a truth. So no, Christians are not the only ones that are correct.

    But when it comes to salvation, yes Christians believe that we are right. But, we base this standing on what Christ said and teaches.
    This isn't a Christian being arrogant or a bigot (as they are called or said to be). It is simply a Christian standing on Christ's words.










     





    Reply
    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    I do not believe that any of it was changed from it's original state.
    The Original Autograghs are authentic and have not been changes or altered in any way.

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    As I have already stated. The Bible is to be taken literally throughout, as much as you possibly can. And it must always be kept in context.

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    Since Jehovah chose God's chosen people... the person, it is the oldest and first religion known to man. Jesus fulfilled all that was in the Old Testament and followers of Christ were mocked and persecuted with the label "Christians". So, actually God dislikes religion. This is something that man instituted. God wanted followers and lovers of Him, not an organized religion.

    It is stood the test of time, persecution and countless attacks by man over the centuries.

    Out of all the other religions, it is the only one where there is a way for man to be saved by grace and not by man's works. It is the only one where one doesn't have to earn salvation/eternal life, but it is provided to man FREELY.

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood.

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    One is not God's child, until he/she is born again and becomes his son/daughter, so everyone is NOT God's child.

    Biblical interpretation must follow certain guidelines and principles in order for it to be properly understood.

    Must keep the verses in Context.

    We must remember the Bible was written to the original audience of the people at that time. So, certain controversial subjects and issues that pertained to their time period was addressed in the Bible at that time.

    Each passage has only one correct interpretation, but obviously can have many applications that apply to someone or something in many various ways.

    There are many other ways to understand how to correctly read and interpret the Bible, that I will not address right now.

    I am answering your question by stating the above because I do not think that you are correctly interpreting what the Bible says or else you would not be asking this question.

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    Yes, a Authentic Christian would say there will be a void/blind without Christ in one's life. But, I think that that void can be filled in other Spiritual ways that are outside of Christianity, but that person according to what Christ teaches is in error.

    I believe that one can find truth in many other ways in life outside of Christianity, but ultimately Christ stated that he IS the truth. So all truth in this world, must be filtered through Christ first, in order to see if it really is a truth. So no, Christians are not the only ones that are correct.

    But when it comes to salvation, yes Christians believe that we are right. But, we base this standing on what Christ said and teaches.
    This isn't a Christian being arrogant or a bigot (as they are called or said to be). It is simply a Christian standing on Christ's words.










     





     
    Sugarbear19
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:48 AM ET #3534

    And thank you Matt, but you cannot quote the Bible nor can you use unfounded assumptions to structure your arguments upon
    Reply
    And thank you Matt, but you cannot quote the Bible nor can you use unfounded assumptions to structure your arguments upon
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:49 AM ET #3535

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Just remember Matt, you can't make assumptions and use them as foundations for logical statements.

    Example: If A then B. If B then C. Therefore, If A, then C. If you are assuming A, you cannot use it in the statement. That's all. (you can qualify it though by saying ASSUMING A is true...) that's ok, but it would essentially render your argument weak.

    Fair enough!
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    Just remember Matt, you can't make assumptions and use them as foundations for logical statements.

    Example: If A then B. If B then C. Therefore, If A, then C. If you are assuming A, you cannot use it in the statement. That's all. (you can qualify it though by saying ASSUMING A is true...) that's ok, but it would essentially render your argument weak.

    Fair enough!
     
    Sugarbear19
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 12:50 AM ET #3536

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Frankly Sugarbear I find you quite boring with your repetitive requests for evidence and proof. 

    Need I say more?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Frankly Sugarbear I find you quite boring with your repetitive requests for evidence and proof. 

    Need I say more?
     
    Sugarbear19
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:08 AM ET #3537

    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    I do not believe that any of it was changed from it's original state.
    The Original Autograghs are authentic and have not been changes or altered in any way.

    (Understand, but does that mean you think god inspired and spoke through EVERY single author in the Bible? Because if so, there shouldn't be a single contradiction anywhere despite the authorship of so many, but such issues exist within these pages.)

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    As I have already stated. The Bible is to be taken literally throughout, as much as you possibly can. And it must always be kept in context.

    (But the problem is that you can't both take something "literally" and "in context," because if you translate something literally there is no need to understand its context. Also, we still can't decide what's metaphor and what's literal, so logically we can't really say for certain either way about any statement.)

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    Since Jehovah chose God's chosen people... the person, it is the oldest and first religion known to man.  (I don't think that's true at all...?) Jesus fulfilled all that was in the Old Testament and followers of Christ were mocked and persecuted with the label "Christians". So, actually God dislikes religion. This is something that man instituted. God wanted followers and lovers of Him, not an organized religion. (But then that begs the question: why be "Christian" at all?)

    It is stood the test of time, persecution and countless attacks by man over the centuries.

    Out of all the other religions, it is the only one where there is a way for man to be saved by grace and not by man's works. It is the only one where one doesn't have to earn salvation/eternal life, but it is provided to man FREELY. (I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it still doesn't really answer the question at hand. The methodology by which one would achieve salvation doesn't really matter in contemplating which system is correct.)

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood. (I admire your attempts to answer these questions, but I really don't know what to say to this. Do you genuinely believe that scientists, who generally agree that dinosaurs existed tens of millions of years ago, could be THIS far off in their dating techniques? I find that to be legitimately "unbelievable.")

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    One is not God's child, until he/she is born again and becomes his son/daughter, so everyone is NOT God's child.

    Biblical interpretation must follow certain guidelines and principles in order for it to be properly understood.

    Must keep the verses in Context. (Why would an omniscient god need to write in a "context," especially when this same god preaches a peaceful way of life in the next iteration of his testament?)

    We must remember the Bible was written to the original audience of the people at that time. So, certain controversial subjects and issues that pertained to their time period was addressed in the Bible at that time.

    Each passage has only one correct interpretation, but obviously can have many applications that apply to someone or something in many various ways.

    There are many other ways to understand how to correctly read and interpret the Bible, that I will not address right now.

    I am answering your question by stating the above because I do not think that you are correctly interpreting what the Bible says or else you would not be asking this question. (But you said that we must take the Bible literally... not only that, but when I read those passages I don't see any room for interpretation... it states clearly that people need to be put to death for these actions, so where is that decree is there room for misinterpretation?)

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    Yes, a Authentic Christian would say there will be a void/blind without Christ in one's life. But, I think that that void can be filled in other Spiritual ways that are outside of Christianity, but that person according to what Christ teaches is in error. (I think this is a fair answer.)

    I believe that one can find truth in many other ways in life outside of Christianity (Agreed), but ultimately Christ stated that he IS the truth. So all truth in this world, must be filtered through Christ first, in order to see if it really is a truth. So no, Christians are not the only ones that are correct.

    But when it comes to salvation, yes Christians believe that we are right. But, we base this standing on what Christ said and teaches.
    This isn't a Christian being arrogant or a bigot (as they are called or said to be). It is simply a Christian standing on Christ's words.


    Thank you for trying to engage in a genuine discussion. I really appreciate this, and I feel you are the only person who regularly posts here that has made an earnest, honest effort at having a real dialogue.

    I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with us.

    -Mike
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by matt4000:

    a) How can you trust a single word in that book when you ACCEPT that parts of it are changed from its original state?

    I do not believe that any of it was changed from it's original state.
    The Original Autograghs are authentic and have not been changes or altered in any way.

    (Understand, but does that mean you think god inspired and spoke through EVERY single author in the Bible? Because if so, there shouldn't be a single contradiction anywhere despite the authorship of so many, but such issues exist within these pages.)

    b) How can you use any shred of it as evidence for anything when you know parts of the book are incorrect as they were originally intended, AND that "supposively" (as SirJohnDrake might say) some of it is to be taken metaphorically?

    As I have already stated. The Bible is to be taken literally throughout, as much as you possibly can. And it must always be kept in context.

    (But the problem is that you can't both take something "literally" and "in context," because if you translate something literally there is no need to understand its context. Also, we still can't decide what's metaphor and what's literal, so logically we can't really say for certain either way about any statement.)

    2) How do you justify Christianity over any other religion? How is it any more valid than say Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Magicology, Santaology, TheWorldSprangFromAdam'sErectPenisOlogy, etc...?

    Since Jehovah chose God's chosen people... the person, it is the oldest and first religion known to man.  (I don't think that's true at all...?) Jesus fulfilled all that was in the Old Testament and followers of Christ were mocked and persecuted with the label "Christians". So, actually God dislikes religion. This is something that man instituted. God wanted followers and lovers of Him, not an organized religion. (But then that begs the question: why be "Christian" at all?)

    It is stood the test of time, persecution and countless attacks by man over the centuries.

    Out of all the other religions, it is the only one where there is a way for man to be saved by grace and not by man's works. It is the only one where one doesn't have to earn salvation/eternal life, but it is provided to man FREELY. (I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it still doesn't really answer the question at hand. The methodology by which one would achieve salvation doesn't really matter in contemplating which system is correct.)

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood. (I admire your attempts to answer these questions, but I really don't know what to say to this. Do you genuinely believe that scientists, who generally agree that dinosaurs existed tens of millions of years ago, could be THIS far off in their dating techniques? I find that to be legitimately "unbelievable.")

    4) Why, if Christianity such a peaceful religion (and if we are all "God's children," does the Bible condone killing (a) homosexuals, (b) non-virgins, (c) for hitting one's parents, among other things?

    One is not God's child, until he/she is born again and becomes his son/daughter, so everyone is NOT God's child.

    Biblical interpretation must follow certain guidelines and principles in order for it to be properly understood.

    Must keep the verses in Context. (Why would an omniscient god need to write in a "context," especially when this same god preaches a peaceful way of life in the next iteration of his testament?)

    We must remember the Bible was written to the original audience of the people at that time. So, certain controversial subjects and issues that pertained to their time period was addressed in the Bible at that time.

    Each passage has only one correct interpretation, but obviously can have many applications that apply to someone or something in many various ways.

    There are many other ways to understand how to correctly read and interpret the Bible, that I will not address right now.

    I am answering your question by stating the above because I do not think that you are correctly interpreting what the Bible says or else you would not be asking this question. (But you said that we must take the Bible literally... not only that, but when I read those passages I don't see any room for interpretation... it states clearly that people need to be put to death for these actions, so where is that decree is there room for misinterpretation?)

    5) Why do we have a "spiritual void" if we don't believe in Christianity? Since a huge majority of the world ISN'T Christian, are they spiritually blind as well? Are only Christians correct? This refers to question two as well.

    Yes, a Authentic Christian would say there will be a void/blind without Christ in one's life. But, I think that that void can be filled in other Spiritual ways that are outside of Christianity, but that person according to what Christ teaches is in error. (I think this is a fair answer.)

    I believe that one can find truth in many other ways in life outside of Christianity (Agreed), but ultimately Christ stated that he IS the truth. So all truth in this world, must be filtered through Christ first, in order to see if it really is a truth. So no, Christians are not the only ones that are correct.

    But when it comes to salvation, yes Christians believe that we are right. But, we base this standing on what Christ said and teaches.
    This isn't a Christian being arrogant or a bigot (as they are called or said to be). It is simply a Christian standing on Christ's words.


    Thank you for trying to engage in a genuine discussion. I really appreciate this, and I feel you are the only person who regularly posts here that has made an earnest, honest effort at having a real dialogue.

    I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with us.

    -Mike
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:18 AM ET #3538

    I will try to tackle some of your questions/points over the course of the next several days, because there is just too much info out there that relates to your questions.
    Plus this will leave time for you to give your responses.

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood. (I admire your attempts to answer these questions, but I really don't know what to say to this. Do you genuinely believe that scientists, who generally agree that dinosaurs existed tens of millions of years ago, could be THIS far off in their dating techniques? I find that to be legitimately "unbelievable.")


    As I stated before to Kitty Kat. I could make an argument for a Young earth theory or a old earth theory, but I tend to lean and believe heavier on a young earth theory. It just makes more sense to me!

    Anyway, I will address this question first over the next several days.
    Reply
    I will try to tackle some of your questions/points over the course of the next several days, because there is just too much info out there that relates to your questions.
    Plus this will leave time for you to give your responses.

    3) If you REALLY believe the world is 6,000 years old, how do you explain dinosaurs? Or ancient Egyptians? Or Mesopotamians?

    I believe that they existed during the Old Testament time period, as is discussed in Genesis, Job and Exodus.
    With obviously, the dinosaurs being destroyed by the flood. (I admire your attempts to answer these questions, but I really don't know what to say to this. Do you genuinely believe that scientists, who generally agree that dinosaurs existed tens of millions of years ago, could be THIS far off in their dating techniques? I find that to be legitimately "unbelievable.")


    As I stated before to Kitty Kat. I could make an argument for a Young earth theory or a old earth theory, but I tend to lean and believe heavier on a young earth theory. It just makes more sense to me!

    Anyway, I will address this question first over the next several days.
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:25 AM ET #3539

    6,000 year old earth.

    There are 107 processes and scientific measurements listed in P. S. Taylor's Origins Answer Book that speak of a young earth, and it in itself is not an all inclusive list. 

    Taylor's research talks about short-period comets, the shrinking sun, and interstellar dust, to Earth's oxygen, the rapid rate of soil and rock erosion, and human population growth.

    The following excerpts are from a 1992 article in Creation ex nihilo, vol. 14, under the title "Fresh Dinosaur Bones Found":

    Scientists at the University of Montana were shocked when they found T. rex bones that were not totally fossilized.

    Not only were the bones not fossilized, but they appeared to have blood cells, which would be impossible if they were millions of years old. 

    The following is part of the report issued by the scientists:

    A thin slice of T. rex bone glowed amber beneath the lens of my microscope...the lab filled with murmurs of amazement, for I had focused on something inside the vessels that none of us had ever noticed before: tiny round objects, translucent red with a dark center...red blood cells?
    The shape and location suggested them, but blood cells are mostly water and couldn't possibly have stayed preserved in the 65-million-year-old tyrannosaur.

    The bone sample that had us so excited came from a beautiful, nearly complete specimen of Tyrannosaurus rex unearthed in 1990...when the team brought the dinosaur into the lab, we noticed that some parts deep inside the long bone of the leg had not completely fossilized...So far, we think that all of this evidence supports the notion that our slices of T. rex could contain preserved heme as hemoglobin fragments. But more work needs to be done before we are confident enough to come right out and say, Yes, this T. rex has blood compounds left in its tissues.



    Reply
    6,000 year old earth.

    There are 107 processes and scientific measurements listed in P. S. Taylor's Origins Answer Book that speak of a young earth, and it in itself is not an all inclusive list. 

    Taylor's research talks about short-period comets, the shrinking sun, and interstellar dust, to Earth's oxygen, the rapid rate of soil and rock erosion, and human population growth.

    The following excerpts are from a 1992 article in Creation ex nihilo, vol. 14, under the title "Fresh Dinosaur Bones Found":

    Scientists at the University of Montana were shocked when they found T. rex bones that were not totally fossilized.

    Not only were the bones not fossilized, but they appeared to have blood cells, which would be impossible if they were millions of years old. 

    The following is part of the report issued by the scientists:

    A thin slice of T. rex bone glowed amber beneath the lens of my microscope...the lab filled with murmurs of amazement, for I had focused on something inside the vessels that none of us had ever noticed before: tiny round objects, translucent red with a dark center...red blood cells?
    The shape and location suggested them, but blood cells are mostly water and couldn't possibly have stayed preserved in the 65-million-year-old tyrannosaur.

    The bone sample that had us so excited came from a beautiful, nearly complete specimen of Tyrannosaurus rex unearthed in 1990...when the team brought the dinosaur into the lab, we noticed that some parts deep inside the long bone of the leg had not completely fossilized...So far, we think that all of this evidence supports the notion that our slices of T. rex could contain preserved heme as hemoglobin fragments. But more work needs to be done before we are confident enough to come right out and say, Yes, this T. rex has blood compounds left in its tissues.



     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:30 AM ET #3540

    so that overrules the thousands of dinosaur fossils that have clearly been preserved for millions of years?
    Reply
    so that overrules the thousands of dinosaur fossils that have clearly been preserved for millions of years?
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:36 AM ET #3541

    6,000 year old earth continued...

    Mary Schweitzer post-graduate student has been trying to extract DNA from the bones of T. rex. 

    Originally, she had intended to thin-section the bones and conduct a histologic investigation. But under the microscope there appeared to be blood cells preserved within the bone tissue.

    Mary conducted a number of tests in an attempt to rule out the possibility that what she'd discovered were in fact blood cells. The tests instead confirmed her initial interpretation.

    Ken Ham 
    Author, popular lecturer and broadcaster weighed in with the following comment on this subject:

    "These red blood cells provide excellent evidence that these fossils are not millions of years old, but are no more than a few thousand years old."

    Research scientist Mary Schweitzer, now of North Carolina State University, surfaces again in a 2005 issue of Science cited in Creation. Excerpts follow:

    In the September-November 2005 Creation magazine, excerpts from the March 25, 2005, issue of Science were published followed by Creation's comments. Under the heading Dino Soft Tissue Find was found the following:

    A research team led by Mary Schweitzer of North Carolina State University has discovered the remarkable preservation of soft cellular tissues inside several T. rex and other dinosaur bones. They observed dinosaur blood vessels still flexible and elastic after 68 million years and apparently intact cells.

    Science journal recaptured the evident excitement and disbelief of the researchers at the time of their discovery: Back in the lab, Schweitzer and her technician demineralized the [dinosaur skeleton] fragments ... 

    As the fossil dissolved, transparent vessels were left behind. "It was totally shocking,Schweitzer says. I didn't believe it until we'd done it 17 times."

    Dr. Schweitzer and her team justifiably identified the flexible branching structures in the T. rex bone as blood vessels. But such soft tissue should not be there if the bones are as old as they claim. 

    These discoveries are powerful evidence that these fossils are NOT millions of years old, but thousands at most!!!

    Reply
    6,000 year old earth continued...

    Mary Schweitzer post-graduate student has been trying to extract DNA from the bones of T. rex. 

    Originally, she had intended to thin-section the bones and conduct a histologic investigation. But under the microscope there appeared to be blood cells preserved within the bone tissue.

    Mary conducted a number of tests in an attempt to rule out the possibility that what she'd discovered were in fact blood cells. The tests instead confirmed her initial interpretation.

    Ken Ham 
    Author, popular lecturer and broadcaster weighed in with the following comment on this subject:

    "These red blood cells provide excellent evidence that these fossils are not millions of years old, but are no more than a few thousand years old."

    Research scientist Mary Schweitzer, now of North Carolina State University, surfaces again in a 2005 issue of Science cited in Creation. Excerpts follow:

    In the September-November 2005 Creation magazine, excerpts from the March 25, 2005, issue of Science were published followed by Creation's comments. Under the heading Dino Soft Tissue Find was found the following:

    A research team led by Mary Schweitzer of North Carolina State University has discovered the remarkable preservation of soft cellular tissues inside several T. rex and other dinosaur bones. They observed dinosaur blood vessels still flexible and elastic after 68 million years and apparently intact cells.

    Science journal recaptured the evident excitement and disbelief of the researchers at the time of their discovery: Back in the lab, Schweitzer and her technician demineralized the [dinosaur skeleton] fragments ... 

    As the fossil dissolved, transparent vessels were left behind. "It was totally shocking,Schweitzer says. I didn't believe it until we'd done it 17 times."

    Dr. Schweitzer and her team justifiably identified the flexible branching structures in the T. rex bone as blood vessels. But such soft tissue should not be there if the bones are as old as they claim. 

    These discoveries are powerful evidence that these fossils are NOT millions of years old, but thousands at most!!!

     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:38 AM ET #3542

    I will do my best to just keep providing quotes, so that I am not plagiarizing in any way!!!
    Reply
    I will do my best to just keep providing quotes, so that I am not plagiarizing in any way!!!
     
    matt4000
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    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 1:45 AM ET #3543

    6,000 year old earth continued...

    A research initiative called RATE which stands for Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth was launched in 1997 jointly by the Institute for Creation Research, the Creation Research Society, and Answers in Genesis. 

    These following excerpts are from an article published in the December 2003 issue of Impact, which carries vital articles on science and creation. 

    The title of the article is "New RATE Data Support a Young World".

    The first excerpt reads,
    New experiments done this year for the RATE project strongly support a young earth. 
    This article updates results announced in an ICR Impact article last year and documented at a technical conference last summer.

    Our experiments measured how rapidly nuclear-decay-generated Helium escapes from tiny radioactive crystals in granite-like rock.

    The new data extend into a critical range of temperatures, and they resoundingly confirm a numerical prediction we published several years before the experiments.

    The Helium loss rate is so high that almost all of it would have escaped during the alleged 1.5 billion year uniformitarian age of the rock, and there would be very little Helium in the crystals today.

    But the crystals in granitic rock presently contain a very large amount of Helium, and the new experiments support an age of only 6000 years. 

    Thus these data are powerful evidence against the long age of uniformitarianism.


    After laborious research measuring Helium loss in radioactive crystals called Zircons, which are common in granitic rock, and after reviewing all existing data on the Helium subject, the RATE team made this final conclusion:

    "The Zircons are young!!!

    The new data allow us to calculate more exactly how long the diffusion has been taking place.

    The result is 6000 (2000) years about 250,000 times smaller than the alleged 1.5 billion year Uranium-Lead age.

    This and other exciting new developments in RATE projects are confirming our basic hypothesis:

    that God drastically speeded up decay rates of long half-life nuclei during the Genesis Flood and other brief periods in the earth's short history. Such accelerated nuclear decay collapses the uniformitarian ages down to the Scriptural timescale of thousands of years."






    Reply
    6,000 year old earth continued...

    A research initiative called RATE which stands for Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth was launched in 1997 jointly by the Institute for Creation Research, the Creation Research Society, and Answers in Genesis. 

    These following excerpts are from an article published in the December 2003 issue of Impact, which carries vital articles on science and creation. 

    The title of the article is "New RATE Data Support a Young World".

    The first excerpt reads,
    New experiments done this year for the RATE project strongly support a young earth. 
    This article updates results announced in an ICR Impact article last year and documented at a technical conference last summer.

    Our experiments measured how rapidly nuclear-decay-generated Helium escapes from tiny radioactive crystals in granite-like rock.

    The new data extend into a critical range of temperatures, and they resoundingly confirm a numerical prediction we published several years before the experiments.

    The Helium loss rate is so high that almost all of it would have escaped during the alleged 1.5 billion year uniformitarian age of the rock, and there would be very little Helium in the crystals today.

    But the crystals in granitic rock presently contain a very large amount of Helium, and the new experiments support an age of only 6000 years. 

    Thus these data are powerful evidence against the long age of uniformitarianism.


    After laborious research measuring Helium loss in radioactive crystals called Zircons, which are common in granitic rock, and after reviewing all existing data on the Helium subject, the RATE team made this final conclusion:

    "The Zircons are young!!!

    The new data allow us to calculate more exactly how long the diffusion has been taking place.

    The result is 6000 (2000) years about 250,000 times smaller than the alleged 1.5 billion year Uranium-Lead age.

    This and other exciting new developments in RATE projects are confirming our basic hypothesis:

    that God drastically speeded up decay rates of long half-life nuclei during the Genesis Flood and other brief periods in the earth's short history. Such accelerated nuclear decay collapses the uniformitarian ages down to the Scriptural timescale of thousands of years."






     
    matt4000
    matt4000
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    Joined: Aug, 2007
    Posts: 1104
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 2:09 AM ET #3544

    6,000 year old earth continued...

    Dr. D. Chittick, in his book, "The Puzzle of Ancient Man," discusses in some detail the DNA chain to mother Eve.

    Scientists have followed the trail of human DNA and discovered that all human life originated from just one woman, appropriately calling her Eve.

    Concerning the methodology used to date the DNA chain to mother Eve, Chittick explains:

    How was this date of 200,000 years obtained? Over time, mutations occur in the DNA of humans (and other animals). How many mutations have occurred since Eve? How fast do mutations occur? In other words, what is the rate at which the mitochondrial DNA clock runs?

    If the number of mutations since Eve were known, and if the mutation rate were also known, then one could calculate how long ago mitochondrial Eve lived.

    Because of their evolutionist world-view, and their belief that humans had been here for a million years or more, those who investigated the mitochondrial DNA attempted to calibrate the clock in accord with their belief system.

    Only by speculating or hypothesizing about the past could a clock rate be obtained because no actual rates for the mitochondrial clock had been observed.

    Chittick continues his dissertation, and goes on to quote Ann Gibbons as she wrote in the January 2, 1998, issue of Science. 

    The title of the Gibbons article is, "Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock." Chittick writes:

    What has been the result of further investigation since the 1988 and 1995 results were published?

    An interesting subsequent development has been calibration of the mitochondrial DNA clock by using actually observed data rather than by using speculations from evolutionism.

    The result has shown that the clock ticks very much faster than expected.

    Ann Gibbons reports:

    "Mitochondrial DNA appears to mutate much faster than expected, prompting new DNA forensics procedures and raising troubling questions about the dating of evolutionary events."

    In 1991, Russians exhumed a Siberian grave containing nine skeletons thought to be the remains of the last Russian tsar, Nicholas II, and his family and retinue, who were shot by firing squad in 1918.

    But two bodies were missing, so no one could be absolutely certain of the identity of the remains. And DNA testing done in 1992 expected to settle the issue quickly instead raised a new mystery.

    The mystery concerned dates relating to the clock rate.

    It appears that mutations occur at a much more rapid rate than had been imagined. Although there seems to be considerable debate about the cause of the faster rate, the faster rate has been verified by independent investigations.

    Again, Gibbons says:

    Regardless of the cause, evolutionists are most concerned about the effect of a faster mutation rate. 

    For example, researchers have calculated that mitochondrial Eve the woman whose mtDNA was ancestral to that in all living people lived 100,000 to 200,000 years ago in Africa. Using the new clock, she would be a mere 6,000 years old.


    Reply
    6,000 year old earth continued...

    Dr. D. Chittick, in his book, "The Puzzle of Ancient Man," discusses in some detail the DNA chain to mother Eve.

    Scientists have followed the trail of human DNA and discovered that all human life originated from just one woman, appropriately calling her Eve.

    Concerning the methodology used to date the DNA chain to mother Eve, Chittick explains:

    How was this date of 200,000 years obtained? Over time, mutations occur in the DNA of humans (and other animals). How many mutations have occurred since Eve? How fast do mutations occur? In other words, what is the rate at which the mitochondrial DNA clock runs?

    If the number of mutations since Eve were known, and if the mutation rate were also known, then one could calculate how long ago mitochondrial Eve lived.

    Because of their evolutionist world-view, and their belief that humans had been here for a million years or more, those who investigated the mitochondrial DNA attempted to calibrate the clock in accord with their belief system.

    Only by speculating or hypothesizing about the past could a clock rate be obtained because no actual rates for the mitochondrial clock had been observed.

    Chittick continues his dissertation, and goes on to quote Ann Gibbons as she wrote in the January 2, 1998, issue of Science. 

    The title of the Gibbons article is, "Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock." Chittick writes:

    What has been the result of further investigation since the 1988 and 1995 results were published?

    An interesting subsequent development has been calibration of the mitochondrial DNA clock by using actually observed data rather than by using speculations from evolutionism.

    The result has shown that the clock ticks very much faster than expected.

    Ann Gibbons reports:

    "Mitochondrial DNA appears to mutate much faster than expected, prompting new DNA forensics procedures and raising troubling questions about the dating of evolutionary events."

    In 1991, Russians exhumed a Siberian grave containing nine skeletons thought to be the remains of the last Russian tsar, Nicholas II, and his family and retinue, who were shot by firing squad in 1918.

    But two bodies were missing, so no one could be absolutely certain of the identity of the remains. And DNA testing done in 1992 expected to settle the issue quickly instead raised a new mystery.

    The mystery concerned dates relating to the clock rate.

    It appears that mutations occur at a much more rapid rate than had been imagined. Although there seems to be considerable debate about the cause of the faster rate, the faster rate has been verified by independent investigations.

    Again, Gibbons says:

    Regardless of the cause, evolutionists are most concerned about the effect of a faster mutation rate. 

    For example, researchers have calculated that mitochondrial Eve the woman whose mtDNA was ancestral to that in all living people lived 100,000 to 200,000 years ago in Africa. Using the new clock, she would be a mere 6,000 years old.


     
    smoothd20
    smoothd20
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    Posts: 8162
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 4:55 AM ET #3545

    Somehow things have gotten so twisted that people think God and Science is mutually exclusive. That is simply not the case. Matt- with all due respect the Earth isn't 6000 years old. This is simply not the case. We have evidence of civilizations right here in North America that are older than 6000 years. We haven't even touched other civilizations like Atlantis, Lemuria and others. No the Earth has been around for millions of years just like the Universe. God isn't finite he is the Alpha and the Omega creator of  all things longer than we can calculate. Unfortunately some Christians in their zealousness to justify whatever are holding on to antiquated ideas like the Earth is 6000 years old, Dinosaurs aren't real and the rest of the nonsense that fundamentalist have adopted. I choose to view God as almighty regardless of the circumstance of the Universe. Some Christians are threatened by extraterrestrials, viewing them as satanic. This is another outdated idea. The list goes and on and on. The Bible says that we wont know all the secrets of the Universe so with that in mind. I can't box God into some sort of category where he is limited in any way. This is similar to what the atheist do on the other side of the spectrum. By giving God no credit they prefer to think that this is all some happenstance existence created by pure luck. Again this is constricting to God. God is omnipotent and omnipresence and can't be defined with Earthly terms. God most certainly can't be defined by a group of delusional atheists who reject the notion of his very existence.  Man's inability to comprehend the very essence of our history doesn't mean that God started the Earth 6000 years ago. God created this Earth eons ago and there have been many civilizations on this Earth before us. We are simply the latest of his creation. 
    Reply
    Somehow things have gotten so twisted that people think God and Science is mutually exclusive. That is simply not the case. Matt- with all due respect the Earth isn't 6000 years old. This is simply not the case. We have evidence of civilizations right here in North America that are older than 6000 years. We haven't even touched other civilizations like Atlantis, Lemuria and others. No the Earth has been around for millions of years just like the Universe. God isn't finite he is the Alpha and the Omega creator of  all things longer than we can calculate. Unfortunately some Christians in their zealousness to justify whatever are holding on to antiquated ideas like the Earth is 6000 years old, Dinosaurs aren't real and the rest of the nonsense that fundamentalist have adopted. I choose to view God as almighty regardless of the circumstance of the Universe. Some Christians are threatened by extraterrestrials, viewing them as satanic. This is another outdated idea. The list goes and on and on. The Bible says that we wont know all the secrets of the Universe so with that in mind. I can't box God into some sort of category where he is limited in any way. This is similar to what the atheist do on the other side of the spectrum. By giving God no credit they prefer to think that this is all some happenstance existence created by pure luck. Again this is constricting to God. God is omnipotent and omnipresence and can't be defined with Earthly terms. God most certainly can't be defined by a group of delusional atheists who reject the notion of his very existence.  Man's inability to comprehend the very essence of our history doesn't mean that God started the Earth 6000 years ago. God created this Earth eons ago and there have been many civilizations on this Earth before us. We are simply the latest of his creation. 
     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2010
    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 5:20 AM ET #3546

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Somehow things have gotten so twisted that people think God and Science is mutually exclusive. That is simply not the case. Matt- with all due respect the Earth isn't 6000 years old. This is simply not the case. We have evidence of civilizations right here in North America that are older than 6000 years. We haven't even touched other civilizations like Atlantis, Lemuria and others. No the Earth has been around for millions of years just like the Universe. God isn't finite he is the Alpha and the Omega creator of  all things longer than we can calculate. Unfortunately some Christians in their zealousness to justify whatever are holding on to antiquated ideas like the Earth is 6000 years old, Dinosaurs aren't real and the rest of the nonsense that fundamentalist have adopted. I choose to view God as almighty regardless of the circumstance of the Universe. Some Christians are threatened by extraterrestrials, viewing them as satanic. This is another outdated idea. The list goes and on and on. The Bible says that we wont know all the secrets of the Universe so with that in mind. I can't box God into some sort of category where he is limited in any way. This is similar to what the atheist do on the other side of the spectrum. By giving God no credit they prefer to think that this is all some happenstance existence created by pure luck. Again this is constricting to God. God is omnipotent and omnipresence and can't be defined with Earthly terms. God most certainly can't be defined by a group of delusional atheists who reject the notion of his very existence.  Man's inability to comprehend the very essence of our history doesn't mean that God started the Earth 6000 years ago. God created this Earth eons ago and there have been many civilizations on this Earth before us. We are simply the latest of his creation. 

    I actually agree with most of this, except the delusional part of course.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Somehow things have gotten so twisted that people think God and Science is mutually exclusive. That is simply not the case. Matt- with all due respect the Earth isn't 6000 years old. This is simply not the case. We have evidence of civilizations right here in North America that are older than 6000 years. We haven't even touched other civilizations like Atlantis, Lemuria and others. No the Earth has been around for millions of years just like the Universe. God isn't finite he is the Alpha and the Omega creator of  all things longer than we can calculate. Unfortunately some Christians in their zealousness to justify whatever are holding on to antiquated ideas like the Earth is 6000 years old, Dinosaurs aren't real and the rest of the nonsense that fundamentalist have adopted. I choose to view God as almighty regardless of the circumstance of the Universe. Some Christians are threatened by extraterrestrials, viewing them as satanic. This is another outdated idea. The list goes and on and on. The Bible says that we wont know all the secrets of the Universe so with that in mind. I can't box God into some sort of category where he is limited in any way. This is similar to what the atheist do on the other side of the spectrum. By giving God no credit they prefer to think that this is all some happenstance existence created by pure luck. Again this is constricting to God. God is omnipotent and omnipresence and can't be defined with Earthly terms. God most certainly can't be defined by a group of delusional atheists who reject the notion of his very existence.  Man's inability to comprehend the very essence of our history doesn't mean that God started the Earth 6000 years ago. God created this Earth eons ago and there have been many civilizations on this Earth before us. We are simply the latest of his creation. 

    I actually agree with most of this, except the delusional part of course.
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2006
    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 5:32 AM ET #3547

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    you cannot quote the Bible nor can you use unfounded assumptions to structure your arguments upon

    Says who? The Holy Bible is the Word of God and that is the source of our faith.

    So you can't say the Holy Bible is off limits...understand?

    You either believe it or don't. No one is going to ever be able to prove or disprove it so you atheists got to get that message through those thick skulls of yours. We are not here to prove anything because it is impossible, however we have evidences but if it is not good enough for you well so be it...don't believe...it is simple as that.

    So once again the Holy Bible is the truth because it is the Word of God.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarbear19:

    you cannot quote the Bible nor can you use unfounded assumptions to structure your arguments upon

    Says who? The Holy Bible is the Word of God and that is the source of our faith.

    So you can't say the Holy Bible is off limits...understand?

    You either believe it or don't. No one is going to ever be able to prove or disprove it so you atheists got to get that message through those thick skulls of yours. We are not here to prove anything because it is impossible, however we have evidences but if it is not good enough for you well so be it...don't believe...it is simple as that.

    So once again the Holy Bible is the truth because it is the Word of God.

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2006
    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 5:47 AM ET #3548

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    I actually agree with most of this, except the delusional part of course.

    Well of course we know that. But anyway God still loves everyone because He is all good!

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    I actually agree with most of this, except the delusional part of course.

    Well of course we know that. But anyway God still loves everyone because He is all good!

     
    I_Need_A_Detox
    I_Need_A_Detox
    Banned
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    Joined: Feb, 2011
    Posts: 27139
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 6:16 AM ET #3549

    I here summarize briefly the evidence that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old.

    https://earthfusion.org/faqs/dalrymple/scientific_age_earth.html
    Reply
    I here summarize briefly the evidence that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old.

    https://earthfusion.org/faqs/dalrymple/scientific_age_earth.html
     
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2006
    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Dec. 28, 2011 - 6:28 AM ET #3550

    Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

    I here summarize briefly the evidence that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old.

    Did those scientists say that 4.5 to 4.6 billion years are within plus a day or two on either side?...lol

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by I_Need_A_Detox:

    I here summarize briefly the evidence that has convinced scientists that the Earth is 4.5 to 4.6 billion years old.

    Did those scientists say that 4.5 to 4.6 billion years are within plus a day or two on either side?...lol

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