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    All Forums | Politics

    Ukraine..What's the Next Step?

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    nature1970
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    kcblitzkrieg
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    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 8, 2023 - 5:24 PM ET #1876

    France England United States and Germany all have pledged support for Ukraine.

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    France England United States and Germany all have pledged support for Ukraine.

     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 8, 2023 - 5:25 PM ET #1877

    French President Emmanuel Macron told his visiting Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky that France is “determined” to lead Ukraine to victory in its war against Russia.  

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    French President Emmanuel Macron told his visiting Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky that France is “determined” to lead Ukraine to victory in its war against Russia.  

     
    Europa
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    Posted: Feb. 8, 2023 - 8:14 PM ET #1878

    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:

    France England United States and Germany all have pledged support for Ukraine.

    More than 50 countries have pledged to supply lethal military equipment to Ukraine, per June 15, 2022, DOD News.

    https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3064765/more-than-50-nations-pledge-to-help-build-ukraines-defense/

    Also there are a dozen of countries sending non-lethal military aid to Ukraine*.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:

    France England United States and Germany all have pledged support for Ukraine.

    More than 50 countries have pledged to supply lethal military equipment to Ukraine, per June 15, 2022, DOD News.

    https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3064765/more-than-50-nations-pledge-to-help-build-ukraines-defense/

    Also there are a dozen of countries sending non-lethal military aid to Ukraine*.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

     

     

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:16 AM ET #1879

    "Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

    Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

    Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

    Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible."

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    "Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.

    Two of the pipelines, which were known collectively as Nord Stream 1, had been providing Germany and much of Western Europe with cheap Russian natural gas for more than a decade. A second pair of pipelines, called Nord Stream 2, had been built but were not yet operational. Now, with Russian troops massing on the Ukrainian border and the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945 looming, President Joseph Biden saw the pipelines as a vehicle for Vladimir Putin to weaponize natural gas for his political and territorial ambitions.

    Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, “This is false and complete fiction.” Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: “This claim is completely and utterly false.”

    Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of highly secret back and forth debate inside Washington’s national security community about how to best achieve that goal. For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible."

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:19 AM ET #1880

    There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

    America’s political fears were real: Putin would now have an additional and much-needed major source of income, and Germany and the rest of Western Europe would become addicted to low-cost natural gas supplied by Russia—while diminishing European reliance on America. In fact, that’s exactly what happened. Many Germans saw Nord Stream 1 as part of the deliverance of former Chancellor Willy Brandt’s famed Ostpolitik theory, which would enable postwar Germany to rehabilitate itself and other European nations destroyed in World War II by, among other initiatives, utilizing cheap Russian gas to fuel a prosperous Western European market and trading economy.

    Opposition to Nord Stream 2 flared on the eve of the Biden inauguration in January 2021, when Senate Republicans, led by Ted Cruz of Texas, repeatedly raised the political threat of cheap Russian natural gas during the confirmation hearing of Blinken as Secretary of State. By then a unified Senate had successfully passed a law that, as Cruz told Blinken, “halted [the pipeline] in its tracks.” There would be enormous political and economic pressure from the German government, then headed by Angela Merkel, to get the second pipeline online.

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center’s hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

    America’s political fears were real: Putin would now have an additional and much-needed major source of income, and Germany and the rest of Western Europe would become addicted to low-cost natural gas supplied by Russia—while diminishing European reliance on America. In fact, that’s exactly what happened. Many Germans saw Nord Stream 1 as part of the deliverance of former Chancellor Willy Brandt’s famed Ostpolitik theory, which would enable postwar Germany to rehabilitate itself and other European nations destroyed in World War II by, among other initiatives, utilizing cheap Russian gas to fuel a prosperous Western European market and trading economy.

    Opposition to Nord Stream 2 flared on the eve of the Biden inauguration in January 2021, when Senate Republicans, led by Ted Cruz of Texas, repeatedly raised the political threat of cheap Russian natural gas during the confirmation hearing of Blinken as Secretary of State. By then a unified Senate had successfully passed a law that, as Cruz told Blinken, “halted [the pipeline] in its tracks.” There would be enormous political and economic pressure from the German government, then headed by Angela Merkel, to get the second pipeline online.

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:23 AM ET #1881

    Oh no, White House says that story is false. Don't ya know the russians did it.

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    Oh no, White House says that story is false. Don't ya know the russians did it.

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:24 AM ET #1882

    Over the next several meetings, the participants debated options for an attack. The Navy proposed using a newly commissioned submarine to assault the pipeline directly. The Air Force discussed dropping bombs with delayed fuses that could be set off remotely. The CIA argued that whatever was done, it would have to be covert. Everyone involved understood the stakes. “This is not kiddie stuff,” the source said. If the attack were traceable to the United States, “It’s an act of war.”

    At the time, the CIA was directed by William Burns, a mild-mannered former ambassador to Russia who had served as deputy secretary of state in the Obama Administration. Burns quickly authorized an Agency working group whose ad hoc members included—by chance—someone who was familiar with the capabilities of the Navy’s deep-sea divers in Panama City. Over the next few weeks, members of the CIA’s working group began to craft a plan for a covert operation that would use deep-sea divers to trigger an explosion along the pipeline.

    A hand-picked team of Central Intelligence Agency and National Security Agency operatives was assembled somewhere in the Washington area, under deep cover, and worked out a plan, using Navy divers, modified submarines and a deep-submarine rescue vehicle, that succeeded, after much trial and error, in locating the Russian cable. The divers planted a sophisticated listening device on the cable that successfully intercepted the Russian traffic and recorded it on a taping system.

    That underwater success, codenamed Ivy Bells, was innovative and risky, and produced invaluable intelligence about the Russian Navy's intentions and planning.

    Still, the interagency group was initially skeptical of the CIA’s enthusiasm for a covert deep-sea attack. There were too many unanswered questions. The waters of the Baltic Sea were heavily patrolled by the Russian navy, and there were no oil rigs that could be used as cover for a diving operation. Would the divers have to go to Estonia, right across the border from Russia’s natural gas loading docks, to train for the mission? “It would be a goat fuck,” the Agency was told.

    Throughout “all of this scheming,” the source said, “some working guys in the CIA and the State Department were saying, ‘Don’t do this. It’s stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.’”

    Nevertheless, in early 2022, the CIA working group reported back to Sullivan’s interagency group: “We have a way to blow up the pipelines.”

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Over the next several meetings, the participants debated options for an attack. The Navy proposed using a newly commissioned submarine to assault the pipeline directly. The Air Force discussed dropping bombs with delayed fuses that could be set off remotely. The CIA argued that whatever was done, it would have to be covert. Everyone involved understood the stakes. “This is not kiddie stuff,” the source said. If the attack were traceable to the United States, “It’s an act of war.”

    At the time, the CIA was directed by William Burns, a mild-mannered former ambassador to Russia who had served as deputy secretary of state in the Obama Administration. Burns quickly authorized an Agency working group whose ad hoc members included—by chance—someone who was familiar with the capabilities of the Navy’s deep-sea divers in Panama City. Over the next few weeks, members of the CIA’s working group began to craft a plan for a covert operation that would use deep-sea divers to trigger an explosion along the pipeline.

    A hand-picked team of Central Intelligence Agency and National Security Agency operatives was assembled somewhere in the Washington area, under deep cover, and worked out a plan, using Navy divers, modified submarines and a deep-submarine rescue vehicle, that succeeded, after much trial and error, in locating the Russian cable. The divers planted a sophisticated listening device on the cable that successfully intercepted the Russian traffic and recorded it on a taping system.

    That underwater success, codenamed Ivy Bells, was innovative and risky, and produced invaluable intelligence about the Russian Navy's intentions and planning.

    Still, the interagency group was initially skeptical of the CIA’s enthusiasm for a covert deep-sea attack. There were too many unanswered questions. The waters of the Baltic Sea were heavily patrolled by the Russian navy, and there were no oil rigs that could be used as cover for a diving operation. Would the divers have to go to Estonia, right across the border from Russia’s natural gas loading docks, to train for the mission? “It would be a goat fuck,” the Agency was told.

    Throughout “all of this scheming,” the source said, “some working guys in the CIA and the State Department were saying, ‘Don’t do this. It’s stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.’”

    Nevertheless, in early 2022, the CIA working group reported back to Sullivan’s interagency group: “We have a way to blow up the pipelines.”

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:25 AM ET #1883

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN:

    Oh no, White House says that story is false. Don't ya know the russians did it.


    This is huge.  Implications are scary.  This is an international story and it won't be able to be kept under wraps.  

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNIMAN:

    Oh no, White House says that story is false. Don't ya know the russians did it.


    This is huge.  Implications are scary.  This is an international story and it won't be able to be kept under wraps.  

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:26 AM ET #1884

    What came next was stunning. On February 7, less than three weeks before the seemingly inevitable Russian invasion of Ukraine, Biden met in his White House office with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who, after some wobbling, was now firmly on the American team. At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, “If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”

    Twenty days earlier, Undersecretary Nuland had delivered essentially the same message at a State Department briefing, with little press coverage. “I want to be very clear to you today,” she said in response to a question. “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    What came next was stunning. On February 7, less than three weeks before the seemingly inevitable Russian invasion of Ukraine, Biden met in his White House office with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who, after some wobbling, was now firmly on the American team. At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, “If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”

    Twenty days earlier, Undersecretary Nuland had delivered essentially the same message at a State Department briefing, with little press coverage. “I want to be very clear to you today,” she said in response to a question. “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 10:28 AM ET #1885

    Biden’s and Nuland’s indiscretion, if that is what it was, might have frustrated some of the planners. But it also created an opportunity. According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline “no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it.”

    The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, “There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress. All they had to do now is just do it—but it still had to be secret. The Russians have superlative surveillance of the Baltic Sea.”

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Biden’s and Nuland’s indiscretion, if that is what it was, might have frustrated some of the planners. But it also created an opportunity. According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline “no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it.”

    The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, “There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress. All they had to do now is just do it—but it still had to be secret. The Russians have superlative surveillance of the Baltic Sea.”

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 11:28 AM ET #1886

    The Norwegians were key to solving other hurdles. The Russian navy was known to possess surveillance technology capable of spotting, and triggering, underwater mines. The American explosive devices needed to be camouflaged in a way that would make them appear to the Russian system as part of the natural background—something that required adapting to the specific salinity of the water. The Norwegians had a fix.

    The Norwegians also had a solution to the crucial question of when the operation should take place. Every June, for the past 21 years, the American Sixth Fleet, whose flagship is based in Gaeta, Italy, south of Rome, has sponsored a major NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea involving scores of allied ships throughout the region. The current exercise, held in June, would be known as Baltic Operations 22, or BALTOPS 22. The Norwegians proposed this would be the ideal cover to plant the mines.

    The Americans provided one vital element: they convinced the Sixth Fleet planners to add a research and development exercise to the program. The exercise, as made public by the Navy, involved the Sixth Fleet in collaboration with the Navy’s “research and warfare centers.” The at-sea event would be held off the coast of Bornholm Island and involve NATO teams of divers planting mines, with competing teams using the latest underwater technology to find and destroy them.

    It was both a useful exercise and ingenious cover. The Panama City boys would do their thing and the C4 explosives would be in place by the end of BALTOPS22, with a 48-hour timer attached. All of the Americans and Norwegians would be long gone by the first explosion. 

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    The Norwegians were key to solving other hurdles. The Russian navy was known to possess surveillance technology capable of spotting, and triggering, underwater mines. The American explosive devices needed to be camouflaged in a way that would make them appear to the Russian system as part of the natural background—something that required adapting to the specific salinity of the water. The Norwegians had a fix.

    The Norwegians also had a solution to the crucial question of when the operation should take place. Every June, for the past 21 years, the American Sixth Fleet, whose flagship is based in Gaeta, Italy, south of Rome, has sponsored a major NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea involving scores of allied ships throughout the region. The current exercise, held in June, would be known as Baltic Operations 22, or BALTOPS 22. The Norwegians proposed this would be the ideal cover to plant the mines.

    The Americans provided one vital element: they convinced the Sixth Fleet planners to add a research and development exercise to the program. The exercise, as made public by the Navy, involved the Sixth Fleet in collaboration with the Navy’s “research and warfare centers.” The at-sea event would be held off the coast of Bornholm Island and involve NATO teams of divers planting mines, with competing teams using the latest underwater technology to find and destroy them.

    It was both a useful exercise and ingenious cover. The Panama City boys would do their thing and the C4 explosives would be in place by the end of BALTOPS22, with a 48-hour timer attached. All of the Americans and Norwegians would be long gone by the first explosion. 

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 11:31 AM ET #1887

    The days were counting down. “The clock was ticking, and we were nearing mission accomplished,” the source said.

    And then: Washington had second thoughts. The bombs would still be planted during BALTOPS, but the White House worried that a two-day window for their detonation would be too close to the end of the exercise, and it would be obvious that America had been involved.

    Instead, the White House had a new request: “Can the guys in the field come up with some way to blow the pipelines later on command?”

    Some members of the planning team were angered and frustrated by the President’s seeming indecision. The Panama City divers had repeatedly practiced planting the C4 on pipelines, as they would during BALTOPS, but now the team in Norway had to come up with a way to give Biden what he wanted—the ability to issue a successful execution order at a time of his choosing.  

    Being tasked with an arbitrary, last-minute change was something the CIA was accustomed to managing. But it also renewed the concerns some shared over the necessity, and legality, of the entire operation.

    The President’s secret orders also evoked the CIA’s dilemma in the Vietnam War days, when President Johnson, confronted by growing anti-Vietnam War sentiment, ordered the Agency to violate its charter—which specifically barred it from operating inside America—by spying on antiwar leaders to determine whether they were being controlled by Communist Russia.

    In unpublished, closed-door testimony, Helms ruefully explained that “you almost have an Immaculate Conception when you do something” under secret orders from a President. “Whether it’s right that you should have it, or wrong that you shall have it, [the CIA] works under different rules and ground rules than any other part of the government.” He was essentially telling the Senators that he, as head of the CIA, understood that he had been working for the Crown, and not the Constitution.

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    The days were counting down. “The clock was ticking, and we were nearing mission accomplished,” the source said.

    And then: Washington had second thoughts. The bombs would still be planted during BALTOPS, but the White House worried that a two-day window for their detonation would be too close to the end of the exercise, and it would be obvious that America had been involved.

    Instead, the White House had a new request: “Can the guys in the field come up with some way to blow the pipelines later on command?”

    Some members of the planning team were angered and frustrated by the President’s seeming indecision. The Panama City divers had repeatedly practiced planting the C4 on pipelines, as they would during BALTOPS, but now the team in Norway had to come up with a way to give Biden what he wanted—the ability to issue a successful execution order at a time of his choosing.  

    Being tasked with an arbitrary, last-minute change was something the CIA was accustomed to managing. But it also renewed the concerns some shared over the necessity, and legality, of the entire operation.

    The President’s secret orders also evoked the CIA’s dilemma in the Vietnam War days, when President Johnson, confronted by growing anti-Vietnam War sentiment, ordered the Agency to violate its charter—which specifically barred it from operating inside America—by spying on antiwar leaders to determine whether they were being controlled by Communist Russia.

    In unpublished, closed-door testimony, Helms ruefully explained that “you almost have an Immaculate Conception when you do something” under secret orders from a President. “Whether it’s right that you should have it, or wrong that you shall have it, [the CIA] works under different rules and ground rules than any other part of the government.” He was essentially telling the Senators that he, as head of the CIA, understood that he had been working for the Crown, and not the Constitution.

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 11:32 AM ET #1888

    The Americans at work in Norway operated under the same dynamic, and dutifully began working on the new problem—how to remotely detonate the C4 explosives on Biden’s order. It was a much more demanding assignment than those in Washington understood. There was no way for the team in Norway to know when the President might push the button. Would it be in a few weeks, in many months or in half a year or longer?

    The C4 attached to the pipelines would be triggered by a sonar buoy dropped by a plane on short notice, but the procedure involved the most advanced signal processing technology. Once in place, the delayed timing devices attached to any of the four pipelines could be accidentally triggered by the complex mix of ocean background noises throughout the heavily trafficked Baltic Sea—from near and distant ships, underwater drilling, seismic events, waves and even sea creatures. To avoid this, the sonar buoy, once in place, would emit a sequence of unique low frequency tonal sounds—much like those emitted by a flute or a piano—that would be recognized by the timing device and, after a pre-set hours of delay, trigger the explosives. (“You want a signal that is robust enough so that no other signal could accidentally send a pulse that detonated the explosives,” I was told by Dr. Theodore Postol, professor emeritus of science, technology and national security policy at MIT. Postol, who has served as the science adviser to the Pentagon’s Chief of Naval Operations, said the issue facing the group in Norway because of Biden’s delay was one of chance: “The longer the explosives are in the water the greater risk there would be of a random signal that would launch the bombs.”)

    On September 26, 2022, a Norwegian Navy P8 surveillance plane made a seemingly routine flight and dropped a sonar buoy. The signal spread underwater, initially to Nord Stream 2 and then on to Nord Stream 1. A few hours later, the high-powered C4 explosives were triggered and three of the four pipelines were put out of commission. Within a few minutes, pools of methane gas that remained in the shuttered pipelines could be seen spreading on the water’s surface and the world learned that something irreversible had taken place.

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    The Americans at work in Norway operated under the same dynamic, and dutifully began working on the new problem—how to remotely detonate the C4 explosives on Biden’s order. It was a much more demanding assignment than those in Washington understood. There was no way for the team in Norway to know when the President might push the button. Would it be in a few weeks, in many months or in half a year or longer?

    The C4 attached to the pipelines would be triggered by a sonar buoy dropped by a plane on short notice, but the procedure involved the most advanced signal processing technology. Once in place, the delayed timing devices attached to any of the four pipelines could be accidentally triggered by the complex mix of ocean background noises throughout the heavily trafficked Baltic Sea—from near and distant ships, underwater drilling, seismic events, waves and even sea creatures. To avoid this, the sonar buoy, once in place, would emit a sequence of unique low frequency tonal sounds—much like those emitted by a flute or a piano—that would be recognized by the timing device and, after a pre-set hours of delay, trigger the explosives. (“You want a signal that is robust enough so that no other signal could accidentally send a pulse that detonated the explosives,” I was told by Dr. Theodore Postol, professor emeritus of science, technology and national security policy at MIT. Postol, who has served as the science adviser to the Pentagon’s Chief of Naval Operations, said the issue facing the group in Norway because of Biden’s delay was one of chance: “The longer the explosives are in the water the greater risk there would be of a random signal that would launch the bombs.”)

    On September 26, 2022, a Norwegian Navy P8 surveillance plane made a seemingly routine flight and dropped a sonar buoy. The signal spread underwater, initially to Nord Stream 2 and then on to Nord Stream 1. A few hours later, the high-powered C4 explosives were triggered and three of the four pipelines were put out of commission. Within a few minutes, pools of methane gas that remained in the shuttered pipelines could be seen spreading on the water’s surface and the world learned that something irreversible had taken place.

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 11:34 AM ET #1889

    FALLOUT

    In the immediate aftermath of the pipeline bombing, the American media treated it like an unsolved mystery. Russia was repeatedly cited as a likely culprit, spurred on by calculated leaks from the White House—but without ever establishing a clear motive for such an act of self-sabotage, beyond simple retribution. A few months later, when it emerged that Russian authorities had been quietly getting estimates for the cost to repair the pipelines, the New York Times described the news as “complicating theories about who was behind” the attack. No major American newspaper dug into the earlier threats to the pipelines made by Biden and Undersecretary of State Nuland.

    While it was never clear why Russia would seek to destroy its own lucrative pipeline, a more telling rationale for the President’s action came from Secretary of State Blinken.

    Asked at a press conference last September about the consequences of the worsening energy crisis in Western Europe, Blinken described the moment as a potentially good one:

     

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    FALLOUT

    In the immediate aftermath of the pipeline bombing, the American media treated it like an unsolved mystery. Russia was repeatedly cited as a likely culprit, spurred on by calculated leaks from the White House—but without ever establishing a clear motive for such an act of self-sabotage, beyond simple retribution. A few months later, when it emerged that Russian authorities had been quietly getting estimates for the cost to repair the pipelines, the New York Times described the news as “complicating theories about who was behind” the attack. No major American newspaper dug into the earlier threats to the pipelines made by Biden and Undersecretary of State Nuland.

    While it was never clear why Russia would seek to destroy its own lucrative pipeline, a more telling rationale for the President’s action came from Secretary of State Blinken.

    Asked at a press conference last September about the consequences of the worsening energy crisis in Western Europe, Blinken described the moment as a potentially good one:

     

     
    fubah2
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 1:27 PM ET #1890

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par:

    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: NATO allies begin a hurried dialogue to include missle defense systems tanks and now state of the art fighter jets better Ng included in package to counter Russian escalation to n their sovereign nation. Russia launched what the head of Ukraine's armed forces called "massive" missile strikes Thursday, as Moscow hurled 55 air and sea-based missiles at targets including the capital Kyiv. The attacks come after the U.S. and Germany's momentous decision Wednesday to send battle tanks to Ukraine. Now, talk has turned to the possible supply of other firepower, namely fighter jets

    The tanks could be very helpful to repel attacks but may arrive to late. Those air defense systems seem much more urgent and more important to protect cities.

    Reports coming in suggest the Russkies have lost close to half their onfield tanks put into action in Ukraine

    an_cheers

     

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par:

    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970: NATO allies begin a hurried dialogue to include missle defense systems tanks and now state of the art fighter jets better Ng included in package to counter Russian escalation to n their sovereign nation. Russia launched what the head of Ukraine's armed forces called "massive" missile strikes Thursday, as Moscow hurled 55 air and sea-based missiles at targets including the capital Kyiv. The attacks come after the U.S. and Germany's momentous decision Wednesday to send battle tanks to Ukraine. Now, talk has turned to the possible supply of other firepower, namely fighter jets

    The tanks could be very helpful to repel attacks but may arrive to late. Those air defense systems seem much more urgent and more important to protect cities.

    Reports coming in suggest the Russkies have lost close to half their onfield tanks put into action in Ukraine

    an_cheers

     

     

     

     
    fubah2
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2023 - 1:29 PM ET #1891

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par:

    I am not in favor of fighter jets. Too many things could go wrong like straying into Russian or Bellarussian air space which would give Putin the excuse he needs for large scale city bombing and using tactical nuclear weapons.   I am in favor of missle defenses though!  The more the better!

    Have to agree there on the planes. 

    Increasing missile defenses though should be a priority in the battle of the skies.

     

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par:

    I am not in favor of fighter jets. Too many things could go wrong like straying into Russian or Bellarussian air space which would give Putin the excuse he needs for large scale city bombing and using tactical nuclear weapons.   I am in favor of missle defenses though!  The more the better!

    Have to agree there on the planes. 

    Increasing missile defenses though should be a priority in the battle of the skies.

     

     

     

     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Feb. 11, 2023 - 8:29 PM ET #1892

    Ukraine destroys terminator infantry support vehicle. First confirmed kill of the tank . The russian propagandists called the vehicle un- destroyable . 

    Satellite footage shown on state t.v clearly shows what left of the prize... Scrap iron....

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    Ukraine destroys terminator infantry support vehicle. First confirmed kill of the tank . The russian propagandists called the vehicle un- destroyable . 

    Satellite footage shown on state t.v clearly shows what left of the prize... Scrap iron....

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 15, 2023 - 1:07 PM ET #1893

    Coming up on one year anniversary of Biden telling us exactly what was going to happen....he called his shot and delivered.....

     

     https://youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM?feature=share

     

     

     

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    Coming up on one year anniversary of Biden telling us exactly what was going to happen....he called his shot and delivered.....

     

     https://youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM?feature=share

     

     

     

     
    fubah2
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    Posted: Feb. 15, 2023 - 4:39 PM ET #1894

    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:

    Ukraine destroys terminator infantry support vehicle. First confirmed kill of the tank . The russian propagandists called the vehicle un- destroyable .  Satellite footage shown on state t.v clearly shows what left of the prize... Scrap iron....

    Quite a bit of that now.......and an incredible number of dead Russsian soldiers as well.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:

    Ukraine destroys terminator infantry support vehicle. First confirmed kill of the tank . The russian propagandists called the vehicle un- destroyable .  Satellite footage shown on state t.v clearly shows what left of the prize... Scrap iron....

    Quite a bit of that now.......and an incredible number of dead Russsian soldiers as well.

     

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2023 - 3:40 PM ET #1895

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/23/statement-by-president-biden-on-nord-stream-2/

    FEBRUARY 23, 2022

    Since Russia began deploying troops to the Ukrainian border, the United States has worked closely with our Allies and partners to deliver a strong, unified response. As I said when I met with Chancellor Scholz earlier this month, Germany has been a leader in that effort, and we have closely coordinated our efforts to stop the Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia further invaded Ukraine.

    Yesterday, after further close consultations between our two governments, Germany announced that it would halt certification of the pipeline. Today, I have directed my administration to impose sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG and its corporate officers. These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate.

    Through his actions, President Putin has provided the world with an overwhelming incentive to move away from Russian gas and to other forms of energy. I want to thank Chancellor Scholz for his close partnership and continued dedication to holding Russia accountable for its actions.

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/23/statement-by-president-biden-on-nord-stream-2/

    FEBRUARY 23, 2022

    Since Russia began deploying troops to the Ukrainian border, the United States has worked closely with our Allies and partners to deliver a strong, unified response. As I said when I met with Chancellor Scholz earlier this month, Germany has been a leader in that effort, and we have closely coordinated our efforts to stop the Nord Stream 2 pipeline if Russia further invaded Ukraine.

    Yesterday, after further close consultations between our two governments, Germany announced that it would halt certification of the pipeline. Today, I have directed my administration to impose sanctions on Nord Stream 2 AG and its corporate officers. These steps are another piece of our initial tranche of sanctions in response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine. As I have made clear, we will not hesitate to take further steps if Russia continues to escalate.

    Through his actions, President Putin has provided the world with an overwhelming incentive to move away from Russian gas and to other forms of energy. I want to thank Chancellor Scholz for his close partnership and continued dedication to holding Russia accountable for its actions.

     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Feb. 17, 2023 - 3:44 PM ET #1896

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/07/biden-says-nord-stream-2-wont-go-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-.html

    “If Russia invades -- that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine, again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2,” Biden said at a joint press conference with Scholz. “We will bring an end to it.”

    “But how will you do that exactly, since the project and control of the project is within Germany’s control?” asked Andrea Shalal of Reuters, who had posed the original question to Biden about Nord Stream.

    “We will, I promise you, we’ll be able to do it,” Biden replied.

    On Tuesday, Denmark and Sweden said the leaks in the two Nord Stream pipelines were caused by deliberate acts of sabotage that had taken place in the country's respective exclusive economic zones.

    EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell warned of a strong response from the bloc.

    "Any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure is utterly unacceptable and will be met with a robust and united response," Borrell said.

    You will not survive here. You are not a wolf, and this is the land of wolves now...
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    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/07/biden-says-nord-stream-2-wont-go-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-.html

    “If Russia invades -- that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine, again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2,” Biden said at a joint press conference with Scholz. “We will bring an end to it.”

    “But how will you do that exactly, since the project and control of the project is within Germany’s control?” asked Andrea Shalal of Reuters, who had posed the original question to Biden about Nord Stream.

    “We will, I promise you, we’ll be able to do it,” Biden replied.

    On Tuesday, Denmark and Sweden said the leaks in the two Nord Stream pipelines were caused by deliberate acts of sabotage that had taken place in the country's respective exclusive economic zones.

    EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell warned of a strong response from the bloc.

    "Any deliberate disruption of European energy infrastructure is utterly unacceptable and will be met with a robust and united response," Borrell said.

     
    ColonelKlink
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    Posted: Feb. 19, 2023 - 9:40 AM ET #1897

    JoeXi tells China not to supply Russia with lethal aid

    While he's arming Ukraine with lethal aid

     

    He's a turd but he's our turd

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    JoeXi tells China not to supply Russia with lethal aid

    While he's arming Ukraine with lethal aid

     

    He's a turd but he's our turd

     
    ColonelKlink
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2023 - 7:08 AM ET #1898

    Wow, more money for Ukraine

    I don't pledge my unwavering support for Ukraine

    JoeXi's depleting our military and weakening us

    seems and endless bribe is being paid off at our expense

    Question is

     

    How long will the "intelligent' people put up with this?

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    Wow, more money for Ukraine

    I don't pledge my unwavering support for Ukraine

    JoeXi's depleting our military and weakening us

    seems and endless bribe is being paid off at our expense

    Question is

     

    How long will the "intelligent' people put up with this?

     
    KellyM_1964
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2023 - 10:52 AM ET #1899

    Quote Originally Posted by fubah2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par: I am not in favor of fighter jets. Too many things could go wrong like straying into Russian or Bellarussian air space which would give Putin the excuse he needs for large scale city bombing and using tactical nuclear weapons.   I am in favor of missle defenses though!  The more the better! Have to agree there on the planes.  Increasing missile defenses though should be a priority in the battle of the skies.

     

    biden announces more financial aid to counter international terrorists  

    an_cheers

     

     

     

     

     

    "I'm the MOST HONEST human being that GOD EVER created!" - Donald "the felon" Trump
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    Quote Originally Posted by fubah2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus4par: I am not in favor of fighter jets. Too many things could go wrong like straying into Russian or Bellarussian air space which would give Putin the excuse he needs for large scale city bombing and using tactical nuclear weapons.   I am in favor of missle defenses though!  The more the better! Have to agree there on the planes.  Increasing missile defenses though should be a priority in the battle of the skies.

     

    biden announces more financial aid to counter international terrorists  

    an_cheers

     

     

     

     

     

     
     
    ColonelKlink
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    Posted: Feb. 21, 2023 - 10:11 AM ET #1900

    Is Zelensky threatening China on our behalf?

    Wow, JoeXi's in deep with this guy

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    Is Zelensky threatening China on our behalf?

    Wow, JoeXi's in deep with this guy

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