Swing-state Ohio at heart of union rights battle

those 34000 can go work somewhere else if they arent fairly compensated

Ford is a private company. people arent forced to work there

carry on

What? Is that supposed to mean that you can say anything you want to me and I'm just sposed to turn the other cheak?

If I had done to you and then you proved me to be wrong...like I did to you I would have apologized. Thats just me though.

I think it is clear that the artificially high wages of unions are unsustainable.  

That would be the christian thing to do...

Why do you waste your time and continue to argue with someone that you consider and idiot, rather then engaging in an intelligent discussion with someone you do respect on the site?

This is what happens when you follow 5FF/CD/RitardA for too long...

QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117

" I think it is clear that the artificially high wages of unions are unsustainable."

 

Once again.  

Ford's top 80 execs in compensation are paid more than the other 34,000 employees combined.

Why would you not say "I think the wage paid to Ford's top 80 execs is unsustainable. These 80 people make more than the 34,000 people who build the products."

I think that you have presented a very informed opinion in the rest of your post , which is very rare on this forum.

 But this opening statement seems a little strange considering the top 80's pay compared to the rest of the force. Given the disparity gap in income that has wrecked this nations finances for a decade, I would assume that opinions on "what" is sustainable would start to shift a little, even for those on the right.

Have you had the same discussion with him? Notice his reaction to my response to him accusing me of being an alias. I don't think he will do it again. Thats all I wanted to accomplish.

rick,


For the most part I agree with you and the notion of trying to eliminate the outsourcing of jobs because of the the even lower wages that individuals are paid in southeastern Asia. 

Because outsourcing and the sweat shops are so prevalent  in  parts of Asia do you support the idea of transnational advocacy networks that fight for the fair treatment of workers when ultimately those workers are the ones making all of our goods that we wear, drive, etc....

Me and you lack site specific knowledge when we buy a t shirt at  gift shop somewhere in the US, we have no problem buying it regardless of where it was made.  That's a pretty basic idea but, it never weighs in on a consumers decision to buy the t shirt or not.

When you picture the global market the 3rd world countries producing these goods for the US, the workers there, benefit even less, combined, compared to a few workers in the US.

I think the problem with certain corporations comes down to branching off in 3rd world countries where that revenue that is produced does not effect at all the economy or even society of that country. IE: When a McDonalds expands and builds a restaurant in Jamaica the, US, the World Trade Organization, and the International monetary fund systematically destroy every aspect of the Jamaican economy and culture.

I thnk that the US Government should not be allowed to favor closer firms, because that results in bad practices in foreign countries.

Also the US government not being able to subsidize domestic corporations. That's the main problem. But that can resolved with heavier government regulation which most people who run a big business are obviously opposed to. So then what do you end up doing?  What ends up happening to the 3rd world countries?

That is the trade off Stiln.  We have to decide as a country if our priorities lie in propping up third world countries while enjoying the fruits of an artificially created labor market, or providing jobs for our workers at the cost of less consumption due to higher prices.  

Want to bring jobs back home?

Yeah it certainly is the trade off and it becomes to detrimental at the expense of other nations depending on how you look at it.

And I think the main problem has to do with the US government subsidizing domestic companies. When you think about, it the subsidies that US gives cotton is more than 3rd world countries total income..

But I too would be against transnational advocacy networks, just playing some devils advocate here but actually there are tons of (NGO's) Non governmental organizations that act as transnational advocacy networks. 

But it really comes down to accountability politics and government regulation

I'd support that to an extent

Simple solution for all of the pro-union anti-union posters. 

every state should be a right to work state, where the employees of any given company can vote annually, bi-annually whatever, to have thier place of employment be represented by the union.  Each employee will have the right to choose whether to join or not, and each employee that chooses to join can voluntarily pay their dues, not have them deducted from their paycheck.

Lobbying is not a crime,

The attack on the worker is disgraceful. The truth is that a group of united employees  working in any industry consistently out-negotiate the "smartest and brightest" people from the top learning institutions in the world.

Um, huh?

State employees are not "the worker"

Further, these state employees are not "negotiating" with anyone.

Once again.  

Ford's top 80 execs in compensation are paid more than the other 34,000 employees combined

And then what?

This is an assertion with no meaning.

i am paid more than all of my 4 employees combined yet they are all quite happy to be treated well/employed.

True enough.  And the workers can collectively bargain to try to improve that ratio.

carry on.

Corporations should not pay any income taxes.  Tax capital gains and dividends, but corp income tax merely and generally just increases the cost of the product, i.e., it's just another tax the buyer bears.

Good points by Rick again.

An assertion with no meaning?  Seems meaningful to me.  Not saying it is right or wrong, but if true, seems pretty meaningful.

However, it sounds like bs.  Lets say the average compensation for those 80 is $10MM, that is $800MM.  Lets say the 34,000 make an average of $50K, that would be 1.7 billion.

Probably an exaggeration.

sounds good to me