What do you propose the older individuals do who are not promoted from within? Should they not try to get minimum wage jobs? Do you prefer they go on welfare? just does not make sense to me.
You mean to tell me that there are older people who never tried to learn a trade or improve their value or job skills?
Why would a person go through life and not try to improve their job skills or learn a trade?
Anyone that doesn't do that deserves to make minimum wage. Unless they live in Mexico or another 3rd world country.
Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:
another way to ask.
What do you propose the older individuals do who are not promoted from within? Should they not try to get minimum wage jobs? Do you prefer they go on welfare? just does not make sense to me.
You mean to tell me that there are older people who never tried to learn a trade or improve their value or job skills?
Why would a person go through life and not try to improve their job skills or learn a trade?
Anyone that doesn't do that deserves to make minimum wage. Unless they live in Mexico or another 3rd world country.
So you don't feel there should be any incentives to better oneself?
If a kid and a grown man offer to mow my lawn I should offer the grown man more for the job because he may have a family to support?
Of course there should be incentives to improves oneself. But what if this does not happen or if they are not hired at higher levels? I am just saying that I disagree with your comment that minimum wage jobs are only for young and recent grads. that is all.
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
So you don't feel there should be any incentives to better oneself?
If a kid and a grown man offer to mow my lawn I should offer the grown man more for the job because he may have a family to support?
Of course there should be incentives to improves oneself. But what if this does not happen or if they are not hired at higher levels? I am just saying that I disagree with your comment that minimum wage jobs are only for young and recent grads. that is all.
Of course there should be incentives to improves oneself. But what if this does not happen or if they are not hired at higher levels? I am just saying that I disagree with your comment that minimum wage jobs are only for young and recent grads. that is all.
So you think running the drive through window at Wendy's is for middle aged men or women?
And you think there was never any design intended for minimum wage jobs?
Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:
Of course there should be incentives to improves oneself. But what if this does not happen or if they are not hired at higher levels? I am just saying that I disagree with your comment that minimum wage jobs are only for young and recent grads. that is all.
So you think running the drive through window at Wendy's is for middle aged men or women?
And you think there was never any design intended for minimum wage jobs?
So you think running the drive through window at Wendy's is for middle aged men or women?
And you think there was never any design intended for minimum wage jobs?
it is obviously more ideal for teens and younger individuals. But guess what -- some people do not quite make it through the "system" as well as others (for a number of reasons). What are they to do? Should they remove themselves from the work force since they should not apply for minimum wage jobs?
It is a sad thing but it is a reality for some.
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
So you think running the drive through window at Wendy's is for middle aged men or women?
And you think there was never any design intended for minimum wage jobs?
it is obviously more ideal for teens and younger individuals. But guess what -- some people do not quite make it through the "system" as well as others (for a number of reasons). What are they to do? Should they remove themselves from the work force since they should not apply for minimum wage jobs?
Some jobs take a limited amount of skill to perform. There is no reason that people should be paid more just because they are overqualified to perform that job.
I ask you again. What value do these businesses get for the added cost to employ them if minimum wage is increased?
Some jobs take a limited amount of skill to perform. There is no reason that people should be paid more just because they are overqualified to perform that job.
I ask you again. What value do these businesses get for the added cost to employ them if minimum wage is increased?
Bowl -- Believe it or not I actually agree with you, for the most part, on minimum wage (although I can also understand the counter arguments to an extent).
I just had an issue with your stance that minimum wage jobs are only for a certain group of people.
Bowl -- Believe it or not I actually agree with you, for the most part, on minimum wage (although I can also understand the counter arguments to an extent).
I just had an issue with your stance that minimum wage jobs are only for a certain group of people.
Well I believe that minimum wage jobs were intended to be entry level jobs and most suitable for students and lower skilled workers or stepping stones to help one get back on their feet.
You show me a person of any age under 55 that doesn't aspire to seek better employment than minimum wage jobs and I'll show you a loser with no ambition.
Well I believe that minimum wage jobs were intended to be entry level jobs and most suitable for students and lower skilled workers or stepping stones to help one get back on their feet.
You show me a person of any age under 55 that doesn't aspire to seek better employment than minimum wage jobs and I'll show you a loser with no ambition.
Well I believe that minimum wage jobs were intended to be entry level jobs and most suitable for students and lower skilled workers or stepping stones to help one get back on their feet.
You show me a person of any age under 55 that doesn't aspire to seek better employment than minimum wage jobs and I'll show you a loser with no ambition.
the point is that unfortunately there are people who fall into this category (again I will say it -- for a number of reasons). It is easy to call them "losers" but at the end of the day that does not address the question of what should they do? Should they not apply for minimum wage jobs because they should be at a better point in their life? Then what?
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
Well I believe that minimum wage jobs were intended to be entry level jobs and most suitable for students and lower skilled workers or stepping stones to help one get back on their feet.
You show me a person of any age under 55 that doesn't aspire to seek better employment than minimum wage jobs and I'll show you a loser with no ambition.
the point is that unfortunately there are people who fall into this category (again I will say it -- for a number of reasons). It is easy to call them "losers" but at the end of the day that does not address the question of what should they do? Should they not apply for minimum wage jobs because they should be at a better point in their life? Then what?
the point is that unfortunately there are people who fall into this category (again I will say it -- for a number of reasons). It is easy to call them "losers" but at the end of the day that does not address the question of what should they do? Should they not apply for minimum wage jobs because they should be at a better point in their life? Then what?
The key word/words that I used from the beginning is aspirations and ambitions. And stepping stones.
Sometimes you have to start over completely, I get that. But they shouldn't be content with min wage.
Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:
the point is that unfortunately there are people who fall into this category (again I will say it -- for a number of reasons). It is easy to call them "losers" but at the end of the day that does not address the question of what should they do? Should they not apply for minimum wage jobs because they should be at a better point in their life? Then what?
The key word/words that I used from the beginning is aspirations and ambitions. And stepping stones.
Sometimes you have to start over completely, I get that. But they shouldn't be content with min wage.
No one is suggesting that large corporations could not absorb a small raise without repercussions.
What is naive on your part is when you forget about all of the small businesses that are barely out of the red each month and barely surviving as it is.
What value do these businesses get for that raise in wages they must pay out? Are the workers going to work 10% harder?
I'm pretty sure that for most small businesses they just have to pass on the cost to the consumers which continues to devalue the dollar. [/Quote) The 7.50 that these people make is their bread and butter, would you work a little harder for a little more bread and butter.Considering that these people know they can lose their job at the drop of a hat what makes you think they are not working hard to keep that 7.50.
[Quote: Originally Posted by bowlslit]
No one is suggesting that large corporations could not absorb a small raise without repercussions.
What is naive on your part is when you forget about all of the small businesses that are barely out of the red each month and barely surviving as it is.
What value do these businesses get for that raise in wages they must pay out? Are the workers going to work 10% harder?
I'm pretty sure that for most small businesses they just have to pass on the cost to the consumers which continues to devalue the dollar. [/Quote) The 7.50 that these people make is their bread and butter, would you work a little harder for a little more bread and butter.Considering that these people know they can lose their job at the drop of a hat what makes you think they are not working hard to keep that 7.50.
Biscuiteater, people like me don't believe in a minimum wage at all.
People like me see no value in someone setting a false value on the price of labor in the first place.
The free market can set that price for entry level labor very adequately.
If a person offers to mow my lawn they fools how much it would be worth it to them and offer me a bid. I either accept the bid or entertain another offer or do it myself.
If I'm a student and need a job I look around to see if there are jobs around that pay a fair wage for the job described. The employer tries to find applicants that will be best suited for the job and the company. People know full well the money they will make before they ever work one hour at the job. If they don't like the hourly wage, no one forces them to work there.
If jobs are plentiful in the area then the employer will have to offer a more competitive compensation package to entice the better workers. If jobs aren't as plentiful, the employer wont have to worry about that as much.
One other thing that you don't seem to be able to grasp and we've talked about this before....we need to have a healthy class of poor people (as harsh as it sounds) to keep inflation lower.
If everyone could afford to live in the penthouse apartment and drive a Cadillac Escalade then what does that do to the price and availability of those products?
Since we do have a minimum wage, keeping it low provides incentives for normal people to aspire to do/make more with their lives.
If minimum wage were $15/hr then soon we'd be one of the laziest, unproductive countries in the world and our natural resources would be used up quicker because everyone would be driving a gas guzzler and living in a 5,000 square foot house which consumes more energy to heat.
Biscuiteater, people like me don't believe in a minimum wage at all.
People like me see no value in someone setting a false value on the price of labor in the first place.
The free market can set that price for entry level labor very adequately.
If a person offers to mow my lawn they fools how much it would be worth it to them and offer me a bid. I either accept the bid or entertain another offer or do it myself.
If I'm a student and need a job I look around to see if there are jobs around that pay a fair wage for the job described. The employer tries to find applicants that will be best suited for the job and the company. People know full well the money they will make before they ever work one hour at the job. If they don't like the hourly wage, no one forces them to work there.
If jobs are plentiful in the area then the employer will have to offer a more competitive compensation package to entice the better workers. If jobs aren't as plentiful, the employer wont have to worry about that as much.
One other thing that you don't seem to be able to grasp and we've talked about this before....we need to have a healthy class of poor people (as harsh as it sounds) to keep inflation lower.
If everyone could afford to live in the penthouse apartment and drive a Cadillac Escalade then what does that do to the price and availability of those products?
Since we do have a minimum wage, keeping it low provides incentives for normal people to aspire to do/make more with their lives.
If minimum wage were $15/hr then soon we'd be one of the laziest, unproductive countries in the world and our natural resources would be used up quicker because everyone would be driving a gas guzzler and living in a 5,000 square foot house which consumes more energy to heat.
I would not advocate that and if past history is any indication its not likely to occur.
no you are wrong... saying that a minimum wage is needed in a specific instance can only mean that you would continue to push it upward infinitely until we are all making the exact same wage...
there is no other possible way to look at it... you either are against it or you support the infinite raising of minimum wage for all eternity....
I swear, I cant tell some times in his absurdity if he is serious or joking... because if his outlandish fantasyland absurdities are joke their are actually pretty funny...
Quote Originally Posted by Biscuiteater1:
I would not advocate that and if past history is any indication its not likely to occur.
no you are wrong... saying that a minimum wage is needed in a specific instance can only mean that you would continue to push it upward infinitely until we are all making the exact same wage...
there is no other possible way to look at it... you either are against it or you support the infinite raising of minimum wage for all eternity....
I swear, I cant tell some times in his absurdity if he is serious or joking... because if his outlandish fantasyland absurdities are joke their are actually pretty funny...
no you are wrong... saying that a minimum wage is needed in a specific instance can only mean that you would continue to push it upward infinitely until we are all making the exact same wage...
there is no other possible way to look at it... you either are against it or you support the infinite raising of minimum wage for all eternity....
I swear, I cant tell some times in his absurdity if he is serious or joking... because if his outlandish fantasyland absurdities are joke their are actually pretty funny...
Quote Originally Posted by dl36:
no you are wrong... saying that a minimum wage is needed in a specific instance can only mean that you would continue to push it upward infinitely until we are all making the exact same wage...
there is no other possible way to look at it... you either are against it or you support the infinite raising of minimum wage for all eternity....
I swear, I cant tell some times in his absurdity if he is serious or joking... because if his outlandish fantasyland absurdities are joke their are actually pretty funny...
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