AOC: The true face of the DNC

@Raiders22

 For sure I did not lump general Christians with the toxic extremists, I mentioned that awful group once or twice and then "Christians" in general many times. I do quotes because people who claim to be followers but pick and choose how they follow and what actions they take are NOT Christians, you cant pick and choose the easy stuff and do the opposite with the hard stuff and claim to be of his teachings. 

My comments about the group in general are what I have been discussing in depth, the destructive toxic extremist group I wont even consider as to being of any faith, they are a cultish destructive populist group made to serve political aspirations and agendas and that has zero to do with Christ or religion. I would group them as money changers in the temple and Christ took a whip to them and chased them out...extremism has no place in religion it has no place in society. Money changers seek to take advantage of people who THINK they are following Christ and do so for monetary and political gain, that organization is abusing the concept of religion for non-Christ like purposes.

I have a big difference in views with you as to the place of religion in society and as followers how we are to put our beliefs into ACTION. You have stated several times that it is proper to take religious agendas to society and into politics and shape society in that fashion, I think that is completely incorrect and very toxic. My view is we need to follow the PRECEPTS of Christ not any religious framework or purpose, take the precepts he taught which are NOT religious in any form..the precepts of kindness, service, tolerance, acceptance, being non-judgmental and selfless are NOT religious. As you stated and I agree there are many atheists who have these precepts in their lives there are all spectrums of faiths and non-faiths that try to follow such a path and I would say that in large percentage "Christians" are terrible at doing those things because it means THEIR agendas and structures are lost and not forced onto others. We should think of others as to how we live outside our homes (and inside as well) and leave religious structure and agendas completely out of politics and society. Take the personal concepts and precepts and be a better person, take that framework and go into society and make the world better...religion destroys societies and divides and has been the direct cause of MILLIONS of deaths. 

Most people would rather ridicule and put down Biden, try and elevate their hollow self by insulting and hurting others than to be true Christians, to as Christ asked leave all your possessions and pride and follow him. 

I know I am missing a joke or line from somewhere?  This is a movie line?

@wallstreetcappers 

 For sure I did not lump general Christians with the toxic extremists, I mentioned that awful group once or twice and then "Christians" in general many times. I do quotes because people who claim to be followers but pick and choose how they follow and what actions they take are NOT Christians, you cant pick and choose the easy stuff and do the opposite with the hard stuff and claim to be of his teachings. 

Gotcha -- yes it seemed that you were grouping all together.  

Cool -- absolutely some give all a bad name.

I think Alice Cooper answered that question on Wayne's World movie.

@wallstreetcappers

 I would group them as money changers in the temple and Christ took a whip to them and chased them out...extremism has no place in religion it has no place in society. Money changers seek to take advantage of people who THINK they are following Christ and do so for monetary and political gain, that organization is abusing the concept of religion for non-Christ like purposes.

Yes--that was my point about judging the whole group by the extremists.  

Now, Zilwaukee Michigan was named to fool german immigrants looking for Milwaukee. 

@wallstreetcappers

 I have a big difference in views with you as to the place of religion in society and as followers how we are to put our beliefs into ACTION. You have stated several times that it is proper to take religious agendas to society and into politics and shape society in that fashion, I think that is completely incorrect and very toxic.

No, I have never stated that and do not believe that.

I am simply pointing out that that is what the societies in the West have base their whole moral code and laws around.  So, it cannot be suddenly dismissed with a 'live and let live' attitude.

But that is what a large segment wants to do in the West now and have done in many countries already.  But the argument would be when you get away from that and it is what your whole system is based on, then you end up with a bad free-for-all where no morals or rules are enforced.

So, you cannot dismiss that it was what led to the country being so unique and great.  Then you cannot dismiss the folks that have concerns about staying from that system.

But for sure, I never advocate a totalitarian enforcement of the religious part of it.  Even God does not force a person in that manner -- it is still, ultimately, left up to the individual to choose.

But the standards that set up the laws and behavior guidelines of acceptable societal norms cannot be done away with because you want to have a carefree attitude and worry that you are 'judging' them.  You can do this without the intolerant hardline attitude and without forcing religious beliefs on someone else.

@wallstreetcappers 

As you stated and I agree there are many atheists who have these precepts in their lives there are all spectrums of faiths and non-faiths that try to follow such a path and I would say that in large percentage "Christians" are terrible at doing those things because it means THEIR agendas and structures are lost and not forced onto others. We should think of others as to how we live outside our homes (and inside as well) and leave religious structure and agendas completely out of politics and society. Take the personal concepts and precepts and be a better person, take that framework and go into society and make the world better...religion destroys societies and divides and has been the direct cause of MILLIONS of deaths. 

Most people would rather ridicule and put down Biden, try and elevate their hollow self by insulting and hurting others than to be true Christians, to as Christ asked leave all your possessions and pride and follow him. 

It may be surprising, but even in some of those cultures you mentioned they have issue with crime and morals that they need to judge and correct.  

For example, the last time I was in India the big issue was the almost 'accpetance' of the gangrapes going on.  The women, especially tourists, were told not to go out alone and not to travel the transit system alone.  

This is not behavior that started big.  This started a small and a little at a time and grew big.  This has to be judged and corrected.  Hopefully, it is better now.  But this is not a situation that was unique.  There are many other issues that stem from bad moral behavior they were having to deal with.  

Even in China stealing is looked at as bad.

So, most reasonable people know that you cannot be carefree about the morals and behavior in your country -- it leads to other bad things that are bigger.

So, for sure, religion had done bad things and caused wars.  This cannot be swerved.

But, absolutely, the atheistic worldview has cause much more harm and far more deaths, just in the last century alone.

But look at all of the good that religion has done:  schools, hospitals, missions, foodbanks, etc.

But just because some abuse it -- the rest should not be judged by that.  I contend the good far outweigh the bad.

Aha! Is that where it is from?

I have never seen it.

@Raiders22

 Oh I in NO way am suggesting India is a model of anything, they are a mess and I used to have major disagreements with adults from India because of their massive cultural flaws and abuses to women, class abuse, LGBT abuse, so much is wrong there that was not my point.

The point was that I took the opportunity to learn and listen to something COMPLETELY FOREIGN to me, I had zero previous understanding and even though I find some of their dogma to be a bit out there I didnt preach or try and put down their beliefs and elevate Christianity, in fact I never went down that path it was never about MY faith vs THEIR faith and that MY faith was BETTER than theirs. I was open minded, listened and learned...that was the point.

Religion belongs in the home not in society or government or anywhere else. Even though it was forwarded before it was never acceptable and was embarrassing. Practice religion in private, take the precepts and positive values that are there and make society better WITHOUT any reference to religion.

@wallstreetcappers

 Gotcha.  Yes we can all learn from everyone.  But it can be argued we can also learn from our ancestors as well to correct the direction we are headed now.

Practicing your religion at home and not 'forcing' it on others is fine.  That does not take away from the foundational basis for the laws in the West deriving from the Christian ethics.  That has and should include 'judging' what is wrong and making the corrections needed -- at home and in society.  But in a humble and kind way.

we can all learn from everyone.  But it can be argued we can also learn from our ancestors as well to correct the direction we are headed now.

spoken word ^^^

@UNIMAN

There’s always good conversations in these MAGA threads . The other threads not so much . Certain factors in the equation make this happen . I’m happy about this fact . I don’t know how to say that in Algonquin so I just wrote it in English . School’s Out for Summer so no more Mister Nice Guy . Ya dig ?

Welcome back spock..

@Raiders22

 That twists in many directions, the path we are on now is actually repairing the mistakes of our ancestors. We can learn from their biases and lack of intelligence, lack of acceptance and using the heavy dull force of religion to shape politics and social structure. While society swings too far as it ebbs and flows, I completely 100% disagree with you in the assumption that ancestors did anything better because they for sure did not. Just because you do not like certain lifestyle choices does not mean suppressing and closing them out is the right thing to do at all.

I look back at the history of society in my life and its a pretty lousy disgusting closed minded mess, society has been toxic to many sub groups, you should seek to do the most good for everyone not just those you agree with.

My dude. Uniman is the goat. Happy 4th, brother.

@wallstreetcappers

 While society swings too far as it ebbs and flows

One of my favorite topics to expunge upon that is often left in silence.

We have been ebbing and flowing outside the mean variance this past decade plus.....the pendulum keeps swaying further and further back and forth.  The past 4 years its swung wildly in one direction while it is on the downswing right now getting ready to swing wildly back in the opposite.  

I always say, just look to whats happening in Europe if you want to see what is next to come for the US.....  ringing true again today as we speak.... 

"MAGA thread" 

Strange huh....coincidence?  I think not.... 

@wallstreetcappers

 That is a very, very simplistic and rather close-minded look at it.

Those very ancestors created the best -- by far -- country that you live in.  They based it on those very principles that you want to get away from.

There is a very, very strong argument to be made that straying from those values is exactly why the USA has fallen to where it is now.

When you just 'accept' any and all morals and behavior you get what you have now in the USA.

You can still stay on those principles and 'judge' the bad behavior and try to reinforce the good behavior.  You can do this without having the narrow-minded and intolerant attitude you are worried about.

It will always come down to some version of 'love the sinner but not the sin'.  

Wrong is still wrong; you cannot just allow any bad moral behavior and expect it to end well.

That is exactly how 'you do the most good for the most people'.  

Allowing bad behavior may be 'good' for the fringe minority that engage in it; but is overwhelmingly bad for the majority of the citizenry.

It always goes through what we call the three P system.  It is slow and gradual until it is too late.  This can be see in any failed historical society, for example the Roman Empire can be studied to see this.

@kcblitzkrieg

What is most curious and not saying this as an insult to you just a comment about that reply...people who are of the Christian majority and especially extremist think of the past as a roadmap to how society should function and they long for the good old days as if today society is so much worse than back then. I actually think society today is better and more advanced more accepting more open and tolerant than say 30-40-50 plus years ago. While the concept of social media and instant self gratification makes society WORSE that isnt really about fringe or outlier groups...its just that the fringe groups have a stage and a pulpit and with social media that gets exaggerated but there is PLENTY of extremist social media Christian trash out there just the same so it isnt the fringe groups that are ruining society.

We have a very diverse and unique society now, but we also had it then too just that then the ultra Christian authoritarian media/political landscape suppressed those groups so people had to hide in order to not be harmed by society...it isnt like as a species we suddenly evolved into LGBT beings, that existed long long ago as well just now it isnt in US society something that people fear for their life to display.

I lived in older eras before even basic rights for all ethnicities and genders was socially explored, I find it funny how the ultra extremist Christian flock, those that vehemently support Trump and that project 2025 think that their social construct is superior and better...well it is worse and draconian, abusive and disgusting. Keep religion in your home and same sex phobia in your home. I'll take this social version of wackiness over what we had to suffer through for hundreds of years.

@Raiders22

 The root of your message is that you and I have a several standard deviation difference in what you consider BAD behavior and what I do, what you consider fringe and what I do. 

@wallstreetcappers

 I actually think society today is better and more advanced more accepting more open and tolerant than say 30-40-50 plus years ago. 

Yes, of course.  Society as a whole this is very true.  The ebb/flow deal I'm talking / have talked about is more on the political spectrum.  Socially too yes but those two things usually flow in relation to each other.  You and Raidahs' discussion is on a much higher level.  I'm talking decades comparison on the western/American level.  You guys are talking on the centuries level of humanity.  Good discussion to observe, don't let me get in the way 

I agree wholeheartedly and honestly…..that the focusing on the makeover and the remodeling …. of the atrocities ……that have broken the properties of comity …. is getting slo-mo’d and sabotaged by fiends ….because of their nonchalant philosophies and pompous schemes ….without the  apropos dopeness that a soul cleansing apology breeds ….

feel me dogg ?