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Here Are The New Taxes You’re Going To Pay For Obamacare

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SirJohnDrake

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Joined: Jan, 2006

Posts: 14765

Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 8:40 PM ET #51

Quote Originally Posted by dillon24:

Only problem is your candidate implemented the same thing in Massachusettes.... AND Massachusettes is doing better than most states

What works for Massachusettes doesn't necessarily mean it will work for the whole country...capiche?

Romney explained the differences very articulately and eloquently when questioned about his Romneycare in Massachusettes.

Having it for the state of Massachusettes is small scale compared to the very large scale of the entire country having it...it just won't be the same dynamics.

HoldEm00

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Joined: Oct, 2003

Posts: 8956

Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 9:16 PM ET #52

the thing is I HATE ROMNEY TOO!!!!! but not as bad as Obummer

We know how bad Obama is for our country.

We can only hope Mitt will be better.

RonPaul is the only one i actually want in

Raisethis2

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Joined: Sep, 2011

Posts: 535

Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 9:44 PM ET #53

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now you know why Al Bundy's wife was always sexually frustrated.

Biscuiteater1

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Joined: Jan, 2011

Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 2:37 AM ET #54

How the hell anyone can say the health care act will fail before it is given a chance shows a willingness on their part to pretend they know what they are talking about,or ownership of a crystal ball.

Biscuiteater1

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Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 3:16 AM ET #55

I'm just hoping that my carrier does not spend 80% on actual patient care so i may get a rebate.

smoothd20

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Joined: Mar, 2010

Posts: 8162

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 5:59 PM ET #56

Quote Originally Posted by Al_Bundy:

This entire thing could be resolved real easily for both parties and everybody, If you choose to buy insurancee you can go to the Doctors on your plan. If you choose to not buy insurance have money you can see any doctor you choose and pay cash out of pocket. If you choose to let the governtment be reposible for your own health care then the government needs to set up health care provided by people who became doctors via affirmative action. Win Win for everyone.

Plus it is not Obama Care it is the affordable care act oh wait i meant it called Obama Dont Care

The problem with that Al Bundy is that the system will fail if people can simply choose to opt out. Just like Social Security. The young fund the older generations. I do realize that that funding is falling short but that's because we're spending too much in other areas...Like wars that don't need to be fought. I'm thinking about Iraq. We should have left Afghanistan eons ago. WWII only lasted 4 years for us. Surely Afghanistan wasn't as crucial as the threat from the Japanese and Germans.

smoothd20

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Posts: 8162

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 6:04 PM ET #57

Quote Originally Posted by bigvern1013:

Personally, I am not well enough read on the entire Obamacare bill to debate the minute details of tax rates, coverage or possible tax liabilities......and I don't have to be.....

The US federal government is forcing individual citizens to do something (purchase healthcare coverage) or be subject to penalty. Issuing a "directive", such as this,undermines freedom of choice that has been the backbone of the US culture for 200+ years.

The healthcare debate is not at all about helping the poor get treatment...it is about the government being present in every decision that you make in your life.

If the Feds are indeed present in every decision that you and I make in our lives, then they can influence those decisions to a specific end.

The Soviets attempted to create a socialist utopia, where all were equal, and everyone was taken care of..... the result was hardship for all whom were not part of the government.

It is dissapointing that more Americans are not currently capable of recognizing the very real perils associated with large governments. It is a very real prospect, that through the implemenation of specific "directives" from the Federal Government, we are on our way to an ultimate consolidation of national power exclusively at the federal level. Essentially, an ultimate end to individualism and personal freedom as we know it.

I agree about the threat to our personal freedoms by the government. But the Right is illogical when it comes to this. They argue about personal freedom but we lost a lot of personal freedom under George Bush. The Right wants to ban abortion and you cant get more personal than that. Healthcare isn't a personal freedom issue. It should be a fundamental right of an American citizen to enjoy the benefits that the entire industrialized world enjoys. We are after all the only Super Power in the world. Why shouldn't our people have that benefit?

smoothd20

Captain

Joined: Mar, 2010

Posts: 8162

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 6:33 PM ET #58

Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:

We pay more in Corporate Welfare than any other entitlement except Social Security

================

False.

Well 14daroad you're actually right about something for a change. If we include the Bailout which by all reasonable analysis is Corportate Welfare on a massive scale. The cost according to the OMB is 2.5 Trillion possibly doubling to $5 Trillion. OMB is non-partisan by the way. That dwarfs all entitlements combine. Without the Bailouts the numbers add up to Corporate welfare being the 3rd most money spent in the Budget. Defense is #1 Social Security #2 Corporate Welfare #3 and Medicaid #4. Those are the facts so you can ignore them if you want but the facts remain as they are.

Biscuiteater1

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Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 6:37 PM ET #59

Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

OMB is only non partisan when they agree with the repucs.

smoothd20

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Posts: 8162

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 6:41 PM ET #60

Why anyone wouldn't want a healthcare system in place is amazing simply based on the fact that what we have now is unsustainable and will cost everybody more money in the end. For all you anti-healthcare people please rent John Q Citizen with Denzel Washington and then let's talk. I'm not advocating hostage taking but I think it illustrates the problem that middle America has. If the Insurance companies weren't so damn corrupt we wouldn't be in this position. Throw in the pharmaceuticals buying up the politicians and you see why we have been sold down the river.

Biscuiteater1

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Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 6:49 PM ET #61

Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Why anyone wouldn't want a healthcare system in place is amazing simply based on the fact that what we have now is unsustainable and will cost everybody more money in the end. For all you anti-healthcare people please rent John Q Citizen with Denzel Washington and then let's talk. I'm not advocating hostage taking but I think it illustrates the problem that middle America has. If the Insurance companies weren't so damn corrupt we wouldn't be in this position. Throw in the pharmaceuticals buying up the politicians and you see why we have been sold down the river.

Dude, in case you aint figured it out yet, its not so much about health care as it is about keeping the status quo and hoping and praying that the president fails.But i know that you know that.

Biscuiteater1

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Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 8:06 PM ET #62

Besides, the politicians and talking heads have theirs,they would not find themselves in Denzel's posisition.Which leads to the question of why they would deney others.? Maybe they feel they are worth more, and others dont deserve.No that could not be.

jasonwhitesknee

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Joined: Sep, 2004

Posts: 9425

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 8:13 PM ET #63

This is a "tax" which means it only needs a 51 majority vote to overturn. John roberts is smarter than all you stupid republicans but you're too blind to see that.

jasonwhitesknee

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Posts: 9425

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 8:14 PM ET #64

stir up the base and gain political capital (seats) and then overturn the "tax"

vanzack

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Posts: 60107

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 8:39 PM ET #65

Republicans wont be happy until only the rich have healthcare, and everyone else has to fight it out for scraps.

The problem is - most of them dont read - or know history - to understand that this is the fundamental downfall of every civilization.

Letting people have unequal access to basic fundamental human rights such as health care is a recipe for disaster. Whatever it costs - it must be done - it can be done - and it will be done.

Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.

Biscuiteater1

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Posts: 33049

Posted: Jul. 4, 2012 - 9:51 PM ET #66

So how much you figure its gonna cost you?

misfit_aka

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Joined: Dec, 2009

Posts: 3713

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 7:22 AM ET #67

truth is, we as Americans spend more on health care than any other country and yet we are about ot fall out of the top in terms of OVERALL QUALITY of health care...

thirdperson

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Posts: 9416

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:00 AM ET #68

Quote Originally Posted by misfit_aka:

truth is, we as Americans spend more on health care than any other country and yet we are about ot fall out of the top in terms of OVERALL QUALITY of health care...

Years ago, the World Health Organization already ranked US quality of healthcare in the middle range of countries. Also life expectancy is lower than many countries. US has the most unaffordable or inefficient healthcare system in the world because of greedy private sector. In the future, aging population can make problems worser.

14daroad

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Posts: 9261

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:10 AM ET #69

Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Really?

Obama rushes around the country saying the auto companies paid back the loans?

Also, the Treasury brags that TARP costs were recovered with interest.

Please provide a cite for you claims (shouting OMB isn't a cite).

14daroad

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Posts: 9261

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:11 AM ET #70

Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

And you do?

Yes.

Any other dumb questions?

14daroad

Captain

Joined: Aug, 2005

Posts: 9261

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:20 AM ET #71

Quote Originally Posted by Biscuiteater1:

Then let me help you. Here are examples health insurance premiums rising & coverage being dropped in response to the provisions of the law already in place or due to take place:

Here

It is an entirely reasonable conclusion that Obamacare will:

-Continue to raise premiums

-Lead to more people losing health insurance plans

Given that 1) It has already happened and 2) the most onerous, punativie, and complex portions of the law have not yet kicked in.

14daroad

Captain

Joined: Aug, 2005

Posts: 9261

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:21 AM ET #72

OMB is non-partisan by the way

I bet it is!

The OMB Director is appointed by the President.

Just stop.

Please.

14daroad

Captain

Joined: Aug, 2005

Posts: 9261

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 8:22 AM ET #73

Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Republicans wont be happy until only the rich have healthcare, and everyone else has to fight it out for scraps.

The problem is - most of them dont read - or know history - to understand that this is the fundamental downfall of every civilization.

Letting people have unequal access to basic fundamental human rights such as health care is a recipe for disaster. Whatever it costs - it must be done - it can be done - and it will be done.

Obamacare has already led to employers dropping health plans or raising costs.

Letting you access this forum to continue to make these stupid comments has been a recipe for disaster.

be easy

MVP

Joined: Oct, 2006

Posts: 15433

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 10:38 AM ET #74

Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Republicans wont be happy until only the rich have healthcare, and everyone else has to fight it out for scraps.

The problem is - most of them dont read - or know history - to understand that this is the fundamental downfall of every civilization.

Letting people have unequal access to basic fundamental human rights such as health care is a recipe for disaster. Whatever it costs - it must be done - it can be done - and it will be done.

wow vanzack, you sound rather misinformed.

First, the fundamental downfall of every civilization is when they reach a point where their investments in social complexity and energy subsidies reach the point of diminishing marginal returns (click). Welcome to today

Secondly, why do you think that AHA solves your problem of limited access to health care? In my opinion, it actually does the opposite (surprise, just like every other usfedgov initiative in the history of the usfedgov). Health insurers hold a monopoly over the services provided by the health care industry. Further strengthening their grip on this monopoly, imo, will end up giving us working shleps shittier coverage, not better

Is there any american that was at risk of not getting necessary health care last year, that will now recieve it because of AHA?

The biggest danger we have is going any further down this path of madness, that the government forces down our throats, of poisoning ourselves with this so called "food". OUr two biggest crops are corn and soy, neither of those have any value as nutritional subsistence. On the contrary, it appears that feeding them to our livestock and to humans, makes them all dangerously ill.

Hopefully, so long as we are stuck in this government enforced chinese finger trap, the next step will be a 1$ per gram tax on sugar. SO if you want the freedom to suck down that soda pop, you will pay 45$ per can. Enjoy

And while i obviously am not in favor of something so absurd, it is the only rational conclusion to this irrational pile of dung that is being cheerleaded by the left in this country, AHA

government initiatives to make things more affordable

Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Republicans wont be happy until only the rich have healthcare, and everyone else has to fight it out for scraps.

The problem is - most of them dont read - or know history - to understand that this is the fundamental downfall of every civilization.

Letting people have unequal access to basic fundamental human rights such as health care is a recipe for disaster. Whatever it costs - it must be done - it can be done - and it will be done.

And while i obviously am not in favor of something so absurd, it is the only rational conclusion to this irrational pile of dung that is being cheerleaded by the left in this country, AHA

government initiatives to make things more affordable

HutchEmAll

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Joined: Jan, 2004

Posts: 38704

Posted: Jul. 5, 2012 - 11:48 AM ET #75

Here's my question -- if the government can force you to purchase a product like health insurance on the open market or force a payment from you for non-compliance, does the government then have a similar monetary interest in keeping health care costs low? If yes, how does Obamacare solve that? If yes, doesn't that somewhat open the door to the argument that the government should be able to have greater say or dictation on what types of activities the population engages in (i.e. no smoking? no alcohol? no fatty foods?)

__________________

My sister is a registered nurse. Works in a trama center. Every single person WITH NO INSURANCE has to be treated if they show up at an ER for care. Simple cases....they go to the emergency room because they know that care can't be denied. We ALL pay for it now. Don't people get this??????

C'mon, Kap. Look at the choices: Don't "force" people to buy health insurance and let us pay for it (because you know they are going to the emergency room if they have issues). Or say, "you pay for it" because we're not letting you have a free lunch. In a sense, doesn't this get rid of a lot of the free loaders?

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