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    All Forums | General Discussion

    Here Are The New Taxes You’re Going To Pay For Obamacare

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    Daddy_Freddie
    666LES
    Raisethis2
    JEFFMARKETCAP
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    Daddy_Freddie
    Daddy_Freddie
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 12:35 PM ET #1

    .Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:

    • A 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when your adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. Taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to 18.8%--if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts. If Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%. (WSJ)
    • A 0.9% surtax on Medicare taxes for those making $200,000 or more ($250,000 joint). You already pay Medicare tax of 1.45%, and your employer pays another 1.45% for you (unless you're self-employed, in which case you pay the whole 2.9% yourself). Next year, your Medicare bill will be 2.35%. (WSJ)
    • Flexible Spending Account contributions will be capped at $2,500. Currently, there is no tax-related limit on how much you can set aside pre-tax to pay for medical expenses. Next year, there will be. If you have been socking away, say, $10,000 in your FSA to pay medical bills, you'll have to cut that to $2,500. (ATR.org)
    • The itemized-deduction hurdle for medical expenses is going up to $10,000. Right now, any medical expenses over $7,500 per year are deductible. Next year, that hurdle will be $10,000. (ATR.org)
    • The penalty on non-medical withdrawals from Healthcare Savings Accounts is now 20% instead of 10%. That's twice the penalty that applies to annuities, IRAs, and other tax-free vehicles. (ATR.org)
    • A tax of 10% on indoor tanning services. This has been in place for two years, since the summer of 2010. (ATR.org)
    • A 40% tax on "Cadillac Health Care Plans" starting in 2018.Those whose employers pay for all or most of comprehensive healthcare plans (costing $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for families) will have to pay a 40% tax on the amount their employer pays. The 2018 start date is said to have been a gift to unions, which often have comprehensive plans. (ATR.org)
    • A"Medicine Cabinet Tax" that eliminates the ability to pay for over-the-counter medicines from a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account. This started in January 2011. (ATR.org)
    • A "penalty" tax for those who don't buy health insurance. This will phase in from 2014-2016. It will range from $695 per person to about $4,700 per person, depending on your income. (More details here.)
    • A tax on medical devices costing more than $100. Starting in 2013, medical device manufacturers will have to pay a 2.3% excise tax on medical equipment. This is expected to raise the cost of medical procedures. (Breitbart.com)

    Note that these taxes are both "progressive" (aimed at rich people) and "regressive" (aimed at the middle class and poor people). The big ones--the 3.8% investment income hike and the Medicare tax increase--only hit you if you're making more than $200,000 a year. The rest hit you no matter how much you're making.

    Many Americans are furious that Obamacare will require them to buy health insurance. Most of these folks seem to hate the idea that Obama is forcing them to do something more than they hate the idea of shelling out money. But for those who also care about the money, here are the details.

    The good news is that, for most people, the "penalty tax" for those who choose not to buy health insurance will cost a lot less than health insurance. As with everything tax-related, there's no simple answer to "How much is the Obamacare penalty tax?" But here are some key points, from FactCheck.org:

    • The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
    • The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
    • The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
    • No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
    • The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you're exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula...
    • The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
    • However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.

    So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

    • Less than $9,500 income = $0
    • $9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
    • $50,000 income = $1,000
    • $75,000 income = $1,600
    • $100,000 income = $2,250
    • $125,000 income = $2,900
    • $150,000 income = $3,500
    • $175,000 income = $4,100
    • $200,000 income = $4,700
    • Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan

    The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare. But here's some more good news for those folks: The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.

    By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

    • Those who make less than $9,500
    • Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
    • Those with "hardships"
    • Members of Indian tribes
    • Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites or Mennonites
    Reply
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    .Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:

    • A 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when your adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. Taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to 18.8%--if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts. If Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%. (WSJ)
    • A 0.9% surtax on Medicare taxes for those making $200,000 or more ($250,000 joint). You already pay Medicare tax of 1.45%, and your employer pays another 1.45% for you (unless you're self-employed, in which case you pay the whole 2.9% yourself). Next year, your Medicare bill will be 2.35%. (WSJ)
    • Flexible Spending Account contributions will be capped at $2,500. Currently, there is no tax-related limit on how much you can set aside pre-tax to pay for medical expenses. Next year, there will be. If you have been socking away, say, $10,000 in your FSA to pay medical bills, you'll have to cut that to $2,500. (ATR.org)
    • The itemized-deduction hurdle for medical expenses is going up to $10,000. Right now, any medical expenses over $7,500 per year are deductible. Next year, that hurdle will be $10,000. (ATR.org)
    • The penalty on non-medical withdrawals from Healthcare Savings Accounts is now 20% instead of 10%. That's twice the penalty that applies to annuities, IRAs, and other tax-free vehicles. (ATR.org)
    • A tax of 10% on indoor tanning services. This has been in place for two years, since the summer of 2010. (ATR.org)
    • A 40% tax on "Cadillac Health Care Plans" starting in 2018.Those whose employers pay for all or most of comprehensive healthcare plans (costing $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for families) will have to pay a 40% tax on the amount their employer pays. The 2018 start date is said to have been a gift to unions, which often have comprehensive plans. (ATR.org)
    • A"Medicine Cabinet Tax" that eliminates the ability to pay for over-the-counter medicines from a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account. This started in January 2011. (ATR.org)
    • A "penalty" tax for those who don't buy health insurance. This will phase in from 2014-2016. It will range from $695 per person to about $4,700 per person, depending on your income. (More details here.)
    • A tax on medical devices costing more than $100. Starting in 2013, medical device manufacturers will have to pay a 2.3% excise tax on medical equipment. This is expected to raise the cost of medical procedures. (Breitbart.com)

    Note that these taxes are both "progressive" (aimed at rich people) and "regressive" (aimed at the middle class and poor people). The big ones--the 3.8% investment income hike and the Medicare tax increase--only hit you if you're making more than $200,000 a year. The rest hit you no matter how much you're making.

    Many Americans are furious that Obamacare will require them to buy health insurance. Most of these folks seem to hate the idea that Obama is forcing them to do something more than they hate the idea of shelling out money. But for those who also care about the money, here are the details.

    The good news is that, for most people, the "penalty tax" for those who choose not to buy health insurance will cost a lot less than health insurance. As with everything tax-related, there's no simple answer to "How much is the Obamacare penalty tax?" But here are some key points, from FactCheck.org:

    • The penalty/tax will be phased in from 2014 to 2016.
    • The minimum penalty/tax in 2016 will be $695 per person and up to 3-times that per family. After 2016, these amounts will increase at the rate of inflation.
    • The minimum penalty/tax per person will start at $95 in 2014 (and then increase through 2016)
    • No family will ever pay more than 3X the per-person penalty, regardless of how many people are in the family.
    • The $695 per-person penalty is only for those who make between $9,500 and ~$37,000 per year. If you make less than ~$9.500, you're exempt. If you make more than ~$37,000, your penalty is calculated by the following formula...
    • The penalty is 2.5% of any household income above the level at which you are required to file a tax return. That level is currently $9,500 per person and $19,000 per couple. The penalty on any income above that is 2.5%. So the penalty can get expensive quickly if you make a lot of money.
    • However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter.

    So, basically, you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

    • Less than $9,500 income = $0
    • $9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
    • $50,000 income = $1,000
    • $75,000 income = $1,600
    • $100,000 income = $2,250
    • $125,000 income = $2,900
    • $150,000 income = $3,500
    • $175,000 income = $4,100
    • $200,000 income = $4,700
    • Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan

    The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare. But here's some more good news for those folks: The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.

    By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

    • Those who make less than $9,500
    • Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
    • Those with "hardships"
    • Members of Indian tribes
    • Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites or Mennonites
     
    666LES
    666LES
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    Posts: 4321
    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 2:39 PM ET #2

    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.
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    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.
     
    Raisethis2
    Raisethis2
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 3:54 PM ET #3

    All you need to know is that if you're up to 26 years old and live at home you're covered assuming your folks are. If you're on your own you should be responsible enough to either get a job that offers health care or pay the bill yourself. 

    The days where my insurance premiums are artificially inflated to pay for the Emergency Room walk in's should end. Sure, you can ignore the law, dodge buying health care then walk in when you're sick. I just wish there was a provision to make you wait. You obviously don't care about your own welfare, why should we? 



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    All you need to know is that if you're up to 26 years old and live at home you're covered assuming your folks are. If you're on your own you should be responsible enough to either get a job that offers health care or pay the bill yourself. 

    The days where my insurance premiums are artificially inflated to pay for the Emergency Room walk in's should end. Sure, you can ignore the law, dodge buying health care then walk in when you're sick. I just wish there was a provision to make you wait. You obviously don't care about your own welfare, why should we? 



     
    JEFFMARKETCAP
    JEFFMARKETCAP
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 5:50 PM ET #4

    well, these are the taxes we have FOR NOW.  Wait till we find out how much more it's really gonna cost us.  These taxes are just a start
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    well, these are the taxes we have FOR NOW.  Wait till we find out how much more it's really gonna cost us.  These taxes are just a start
     
    Daddy_Freddie
    Daddy_Freddie
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 6:06 PM ET #5

    Quote Originally Posted by 666LES:

    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.

    MY guess 666 LES is that since we have to file I-9's with employers that helps them establish addresses and don't forget...with that all mighty social security number, yeah, the one that was NEVER intended to be used for identification purposes...they can find you.

    I am wondering if they will set up an automatic payroll deduction like they do now for FICA on our paychecks based on wages earned for the pay-periods, or you might see income tax withholding for those who are above the limit when they file their income tax...there are many things yet to learn.

    When this bill passed into law my first words were, I am GLAD I get my healthcare through the VA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 666LES:

    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.

    MY guess 666 LES is that since we have to file I-9's with employers that helps them establish addresses and don't forget...with that all mighty social security number, yeah, the one that was NEVER intended to be used for identification purposes...they can find you.

    I am wondering if they will set up an automatic payroll deduction like they do now for FICA on our paychecks based on wages earned for the pay-periods, or you might see income tax withholding for those who are above the limit when they file their income tax...there are many things yet to learn.

    When this bill passed into law my first words were, I am GLAD I get my healthcare through the VA.

     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 6:52 PM ET #6

    Thing is we are already paying for healthcare for people that don't have it.  They go to an emergency room who can't turn down treatment. Screw them.  I've seen it time and time again. Who do you think pays for that????????

    Punish the ones who aren't responsible to purchase healthcare, not the people who are.  THAT I have no problem with.
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    Thing is we are already paying for healthcare for people that don't have it.  They go to an emergency room who can't turn down treatment. Screw them.  I've seen it time and time again. Who do you think pays for that????????

    Punish the ones who aren't responsible to purchase healthcare, not the people who are.  THAT I have no problem with.
     
    thorpe
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 7:16 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Thing is we are already paying for healthcare for people that don't have it.  They go to an emergency room who can't turn down treatment. Screw them.  I've seen it time and time again. Who do you think pays for that????????

    Punish the ones who aren't responsible to purchase healthcare, not the people who are.  THAT I have no problem with.


    A 3 % tax increase on income over 200,000 is a punishment?  Or are you talking about the tax on tanning?  It is the people without health insurance who are getting fined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Thing is we are already paying for healthcare for people that don't have it.  They go to an emergency room who can't turn down treatment. Screw them.  I've seen it time and time again. Who do you think pays for that????????

    Punish the ones who aren't responsible to purchase healthcare, not the people who are.  THAT I have no problem with.


    A 3 % tax increase on income over 200,000 is a punishment?  Or are you talking about the tax on tanning?  It is the people without health insurance who are getting fined.
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 7:44 PM ET #8

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Jul. 2, 2012 - 10:49 PM ET #9

    Benefits exceed costs of universal healthcare system to make America stronger.  As Vanzack pointed out, it is also  the humane and right thing to do.
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    Benefits exceed costs of universal healthcare system to make America stronger.  As Vanzack pointed out, it is also  the humane and right thing to do.
     
    skoda
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 12:06 AM ET #10

    OC will not be takin seriously by most until 2014 when everything becomes reality. Most where I work say they can't afford to pay for any insurance an ask for a pack no two packs of Newports!!!!

    I was glad to hear today my State is ending CASH assistance for some and I want to say those who need or are entitled have only those who abused to thank for what they had taken away.......

     

     

     

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    OC will not be takin seriously by most until 2014 when everything becomes reality. Most where I work say they can't afford to pay for any insurance an ask for a pack no two packs of Newports!!!!

    I was glad to hear today my State is ending CASH assistance for some and I want to say those who need or are entitled have only those who abused to thank for what they had taken away.......

     

     

     

     
    esplanade
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 1:36 AM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.



    Because people are dying in the street right and left as it stands. Make your own healthcare a priority. Why should other people have to carry you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.



    Because people are dying in the street right and left as it stands. Make your own healthcare a priority. Why should other people have to carry you.
     
    esplanade
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 1:41 AM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Benefits exceed costs of universal healthcare system to make America stronger.  As Vanzack pointed out, it is also  the humane and right thing to do.


    What are the benefits EXACTLY? Crappy DMV quality health care?? Everyone will have coverage, but care will be scarce and rationed, as Palin correctly noted many months ago. Just hope your mom/grandmother doesn't need a hip replacement.............................





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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Benefits exceed costs of universal healthcare system to make America stronger.  As Vanzack pointed out, it is also  the humane and right thing to do.


    What are the benefits EXACTLY? Crappy DMV quality health care?? Everyone will have coverage, but care will be scarce and rationed, as Palin correctly noted many months ago. Just hope your mom/grandmother doesn't need a hip replacement.............................





     
    searchwarrant
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 2:08 AM ET #13

    Carry over tax losses for life.

    Looks good to me.

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    Carry over tax losses for life.

    Looks good to me.

     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 9:33 AM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:



    What are the benefits EXACTLY? Crappy DMV quality health care?? Everyone will have coverage, but care will be scarce and rationed, as Palin correctly noted many months ago. Just hope your mom/grandmother doesn't need a hip replacement.............................





    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.  Serving a larger population may or may not increase waiting times. but that is far better than zero access to healthcare.  

    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.  World health organization rank many such countries quality above the United States.
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    Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:



    What are the benefits EXACTLY? Crappy DMV quality health care?? Everyone will have coverage, but care will be scarce and rationed, as Palin correctly noted many months ago. Just hope your mom/grandmother doesn't need a hip replacement.............................





    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.  Serving a larger population may or may not increase waiting times. but that is far better than zero access to healthcare.  

    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.  World health organization rank many such countries quality above the United States.
     
    smoothd20
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:30 AM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.  Serving a larger population may or may not increase waiting times. but that is far better than zero access to healthcare.  

    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.  World health organization rank many such countries quality above the United States.
    Exactly. This propaganda that people are spewing about this plan is amazing. This is only a crumb off the table people. We shouldn't even be having this conversation because we should have resolved this issue a 100 years ago like every Industrialized country on the planet has. But we have missed the boat on this issue and now argue over simple basics. Americans need healthcare. Its not about being Socialist/Communist. It's about being human and having some respect for your fellow man. You're not "carrying" anyone. Is my Son the Marine "carrying" you while he's in Afghanistan. No! He is doing something that he believes in and it serves his country. We need to put the country and it's people first. The whole world has figured this out why can't we. I have known many people from these countries, Canada, Brazil, England, Germany and France personally. They laugh at our insane medical system. My friend went to the hospital last year for 3 days, $28,000 and he has insurance but it wasn't covered. That's ridiculous. I talk to people everyday in my business whose main hardship is medical bills. That simply shouldn't happen in the richest country on this planet. We have been hoodwinked by the pharmaceuticals and the medical industry including Insurance companies for too long. It's time to take back America from these greedy scoundrels who don't give a dam about us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.  Serving a larger population may or may not increase waiting times. but that is far better than zero access to healthcare.  

    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.  World health organization rank many such countries quality above the United States.
    Exactly. This propaganda that people are spewing about this plan is amazing. This is only a crumb off the table people. We shouldn't even be having this conversation because we should have resolved this issue a 100 years ago like every Industrialized country on the planet has. But we have missed the boat on this issue and now argue over simple basics. Americans need healthcare. Its not about being Socialist/Communist. It's about being human and having some respect for your fellow man. You're not "carrying" anyone. Is my Son the Marine "carrying" you while he's in Afghanistan. No! He is doing something that he believes in and it serves his country. We need to put the country and it's people first. The whole world has figured this out why can't we. I have known many people from these countries, Canada, Brazil, England, Germany and France personally. They laugh at our insane medical system. My friend went to the hospital last year for 3 days, $28,000 and he has insurance but it wasn't covered. That's ridiculous. I talk to people everyday in my business whose main hardship is medical bills. That simply shouldn't happen in the richest country on this planet. We have been hoodwinked by the pharmaceuticals and the medical industry including Insurance companies for too long. It's time to take back America from these greedy scoundrels who don't give a dam about us.
     
    kaponofor3
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:39 AM ET #16

    Here's my question -- if the government can force you to purchase a product like health insurance on the open market or force a payment from you for non-compliance, does the government then have a similar monetary interest in keeping health care costs low? If yes, how does Obamacare solve that? If yes, doesn't that somewhat open the door to the argument that the government should be able to have greater say or dictation on what types of activities the population engages in (i.e. no smoking? no alcohol? no fatty foods?)
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    Here's my question -- if the government can force you to purchase a product like health insurance on the open market or force a payment from you for non-compliance, does the government then have a similar monetary interest in keeping health care costs low? If yes, how does Obamacare solve that? If yes, doesn't that somewhat open the door to the argument that the government should be able to have greater say or dictation on what types of activities the population engages in (i.e. no smoking? no alcohol? no fatty foods?)
     
    TheGoldenGoose
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:40 AM ET #17



      smoothd20


    knocked it outta the park
    ~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
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      smoothd20


    knocked it outta the park
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:47 AM ET #18

    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.

    There is no evidence, anywhere at all, that "millions" have no access to "healthcare when they are sick"

     

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    Worthy sacrifice when millions of uninsured Americans can gain access to healthcare when they are sick.

    There is no evidence, anywhere at all, that "millions" have no access to "healthcare when they are sick"

     

     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:48 AM ET #19

    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.

     

    Yes!

    It is such a "myth" that all those rich people from around the world go to Great Britain to get medical treatment when they are dying!

    Really, they do!

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    Don't trust the MYTH of low quality healthcare in countries with universal healthcare systems.

     

    Yes!

    It is such a "myth" that all those rich people from around the world go to Great Britain to get medical treatment when they are dying!

    Really, they do!

     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:51 AM ET #20

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

     

     

    "pretty cheap" by what standard?

    America is going to spend 1.7 Trillion on this in the first 10 years.

    Since you mentioned Jesus, to put 1 trillion dollars into perspective - if you spent a million dollars every day from Jesus' birth to today, you wouldn't have spent a trillion.

    Oh, and I just love watching silly people like you try and use religion to justify your statism.

    Classic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

     

     

    "pretty cheap" by what standard?

    America is going to spend 1.7 Trillion on this in the first 10 years.

    Since you mentioned Jesus, to put 1 trillion dollars into perspective - if you spent a million dollars every day from Jesus' birth to today, you wouldn't have spent a trillion.

    Oh, and I just love watching silly people like you try and use religion to justify your statism.

    Classic.

     
    captjohn67
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:54 AM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:

    Here's my question -- if the government can force you to purchase a product like health insurance on the open market or force a payment from you for non-compliance, does the government then have a similar monetary interest in keeping health care costs low? If yes, how does Obamacare solve that? If yes, doesn't that somewhat open the door to the argument that the government should be able to have greater say or dictation on what types of activities the population engages in (i.e. no smoking? no alcohol? no fatty foods?)

    not somewhat, it kicks the door in

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:

    Here's my question -- if the government can force you to purchase a product like health insurance on the open market or force a payment from you for non-compliance, does the government then have a similar monetary interest in keeping health care costs low? If yes, how does Obamacare solve that? If yes, doesn't that somewhat open the door to the argument that the government should be able to have greater say or dictation on what types of activities the population engages in (i.e. no smoking? no alcohol? no fatty foods?)

    not somewhat, it kicks the door in

     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 11:58 AM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

    You have not the foggiest clue what Jesus said or did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Pretty cheap so that everyone has an equal chance of living.

    Im not in favor of letting people die and suffer so that your taxes remain lower.  Jesus isnt either.

    You have not the foggiest clue what Jesus said or did.

     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 12:02 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Exactly. This propaganda that people are spewing about this plan is amazing. This is only a crumb off the table people. We shouldn't even be having this conversation because we should have resolved this issue a 100 years ago like every Industrialized country on the planet has. But we have missed the boat on this issue and now argue over simple basics. Americans need healthcare. Its not about being Socialist/Communist. It's about being human and having some respect for your fellow man. You're not "carrying" anyone. Is my Son the Marine "carrying" you while he's in Afghanistan. No! He is doing something that he believes in and it serves his country. We need to put the country and it's people first. The whole world has figured this out why can't we. I have known many people from these countries, Canada, Brazil, England, Germany and France personally. They laugh at our insane medical system. My friend went to the hospital last year for 3 days, $28,000 and he has insurance but it wasn't covered. That's ridiculous. I talk to people everyday in my business whose main hardship is medical bills. That simply shouldn't happen in the richest country on this planet. We have been hoodwinked by the pharmaceuticals and the medical industry including Insurance companies for too long. It's time to take back America from these greedy scoundrels who don't give a dam about us.

    Misguided, Uninformed, Naive and Terribly Irresponsible...

    Its a shame really, you clowns are so opinionated about something you have no grasp or understanding about...its disgusting. Its a disorder brought upon by years of powerlessness and limited success in life. 

    And you guys wonder why I make fun of your politics


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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Exactly. This propaganda that people are spewing about this plan is amazing. This is only a crumb off the table people. We shouldn't even be having this conversation because we should have resolved this issue a 100 years ago like every Industrialized country on the planet has. But we have missed the boat on this issue and now argue over simple basics. Americans need healthcare. Its not about being Socialist/Communist. It's about being human and having some respect for your fellow man. You're not "carrying" anyone. Is my Son the Marine "carrying" you while he's in Afghanistan. No! He is doing something that he believes in and it serves his country. We need to put the country and it's people first. The whole world has figured this out why can't we. I have known many people from these countries, Canada, Brazil, England, Germany and France personally. They laugh at our insane medical system. My friend went to the hospital last year for 3 days, $28,000 and he has insurance but it wasn't covered. That's ridiculous. I talk to people everyday in my business whose main hardship is medical bills. That simply shouldn't happen in the richest country on this planet. We have been hoodwinked by the pharmaceuticals and the medical industry including Insurance companies for too long. It's time to take back America from these greedy scoundrels who don't give a dam about us.

    Misguided, Uninformed, Naive and Terribly Irresponsible...

    Its a shame really, you clowns are so opinionated about something you have no grasp or understanding about...its disgusting. Its a disorder brought upon by years of powerlessness and limited success in life. 

    And you guys wonder why I make fun of your politics


     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 12:17 PM ET #24

    Liberal logic:

    Let's wreck the health care delivery system for 280 million Americas to "save" this (mythical) 30 million uninsured.

    Classic.

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    Liberal logic:

    Let's wreck the health care delivery system for 280 million Americas to "save" this (mythical) 30 million uninsured.

    Classic.

     
     
    Biscuiteater1
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    Posted: Jul. 3, 2012 - 12:31 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by 666LES:

    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.
    You would not have to pay anything.End of story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 666LES:

    Very interesting Daddie- Let's just say that in 2014 I do not have an income of $9500 and I do not file an income tax form with IRS how would the IRS find me and tax me unless I went to hospital without a healthplan? If I don't have auto insurance and I'm stopped by police theres your enforcement. Will this require every citizan to carry a health-care card or more likly the IRS are the storm troopers in this case and avoid the IRS avoid the tax.
    You would not have to pay anything.End of story.
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