embezzlement

It takes a very special person to extend a helping hand, especially when they have every right NOT to do so.  You know in your heart that you did the right thing bandit.  The one simple thing I've learned in my 50+ years on this planet... If you follow your heart, you will never go wrong.  This above all... To thine own self be true.  You are a great Human Being and as such will never want for lack of friends or business opportunities.  May the Gods stoke afire in your heart that burns brightly,strongly and forever guide your wisdom.

If she was such a bad person, don't you think she could've took a whole lot more in 10 yrs time? Although I'm not for keeping someone that violated my trust, it is bandit's decision and I like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing. Good man.

Dude, just make sure it was only the 5k you have found so far. In 5 out of every 10 frauds, the initial amount discovered is not the total amount taken.

By not prosecuting her, you are telling the other employees that loosing their job is the only consequence for theses actions. Is that what you want to do?

I understand your point DogB.  Nobody knows went down besides my CFO and I.  I highly doubt she ever tells anyone what she did.  We did go back over the last year and re-checked everything.  Nothing appears out of line, except the CC's. 

Thanks GoldenG.  I am inspired by your wisdom.  As I stated previously, I have never allowed a person back who has stolen from me, and never thought I would.  But in my heart of hearts, if there is ever  was an exception, I believe this is it.  Now, if this doesn't work out, I will most likely be jaded, and never again.  I just don't have that feeling.  I doubt I will ever totally get over the mis-trust, but I believe we can continue out business relationship.  At least I hope so.

Bandit - you have heard plenty of good opinions on both sides of this argument - so I am not going to give you another one.  What you do is ultimately up to you, as you know all of the facts involved.

What I am recommending you do, from my professional experience, is to do all of your CYA:

1.  Get a statement in writiting with her signature stating that she admits to these accusations, maybe even have a lawyer look at it. Verbal contracts are useless these days.

2.  Get a written agreement stating the terms of the re-payment.  You don't want her later claiming you were illegeally withholding money from her paycheck. 

3.  Get her to sign a "Non-compete" agreement so you can protect yourself in case she tries to screw you in the future and take your clients with her.

4.  And obviously, limit her access to funds and tighten up your internal control and have checks and balances in place to make sure nothing like this happens again...from her or other employees.

Use this as a learning experience and build a stronger company internally and reduce your risks in all areas possible.  Many business owners get narrow minded and are only focused on revenue, when they can get totally wipped out if they do not properly manage and reduce their risks and liabilities.  May cost a little more short term, worth it long term.

Best of luck and keep us updated.

I would be willing to bet the word is already out. The strongest  urge in humans is not sex, not drink or drugs - it's the urge to tell secrets.

I believe if you dig around you'll find out there is more than $5K. If it were me, I'd hire a third party to audit... then you'd be more prepared to render a decision when you have ALL the facts.

Thanks guys, apprecaite it.  We did do a complete audit for 2009 to present.  Nothing suspicious, except for the CC's.  Actually, not that it makes alot of difference, but the total amount stolen was $3300.

Great thread guys.  Thanks for all the astute the input.  Just curious, lets play this.  If this girl had been YOU...what would YOU have said to persuade me to keep you as my manager?   Especialy yours, CMT.  You seem pretty intelligent.  I know you never steal, but I am just curious how you would defned yourself if you were in her shoes.  Should be good.  I'll tell you exactly what our converation, and it was a GOOD one, when I get several of your.  Please, thought out and sincere replies only.  Thanks

Senor Bandito'

I'm different because I've been self employed since 1989. If I've learned anything over my 51 years on earth it's that Karma exists. I wouldn't put myself in that predicament.

If I were her? Well, I would probably start crying and telling you my sob story of why I did it, hoping to garner sympathy. Us men are suckers for boohoo'ing and my shake of the dice would be that you weren't a cold fish and think me lesser because of crying. I would probably focus on the positives of our relationship and what I've done for you in the past. I'd also focus on how you and I have been together 10 years and I was instrumental in taking this company from X - Y and with that, I'd tell you I'll never do it again, but in this case, circumstances warrant it because of sob sob sob...

As an aside here, it sounds to me that you've gotten in deep with her personal life. I learned not to do that the hard way. Other than the occasion of Christmas, Weddings, or the like, I never get involved. I never have my employees over to my house as well. The minute you start getting personal with people is the minute your judgment gets eschewed.

I am very surprised at how many people were empathetic to your employee and want to forgive. I would venture to guess that those people never started a business and had to pace the floors on the 31st of the month with a cholicy baby while sweating out payroll for the 1st. That $5K would be a ton of money to me during that time and I would never forget that.

I wonder how many of those guys would tolerate their wife/girlfriend cheating on them? With an employee and employer, allowing someone near your money, in my opinion, is just like the sacred trust between you and your wife. While a cheating spouse is sacrificing the sanctimonious trust between partners when she cheats,  allowing someone to handle your money is developing the same height of trust you can have with an employee.

Since you have already accepted her story, I wonder if it'll be worth your non peace of mind? After all, you're going to be hyper suspicious from this point on. Are you willing to live with yourself in that manner? Once that trust is broken, it's never the same.

Frankly I believe you're making the wrong choice, but you will be the one to look back on it and hopefully get the benefit of this decision.

Happy Hunting...

Thanks CMT.  Astute write-up.  I couldn't agree more with you about getting involved personally with employees.  I do not socialize with them or have any over to my home.  Ever.  having her attend GA was just a condition of mine, among several.  I want to make sure she gets treatment.  This is a good family, from what I can tell.  Her husband is the purschasing agent for a large door and window factory.  He is very involved in church, and has been president of the hockey association and lions club.  Sharp man.  They have two children, one in college and one in HS.  I have run into him many times at events/occasions.  I was apprehensive about letting her return, but I find myself being much better with it.  I just have this gut feeling that it won't happen again.  But, if it were to, I would definately file charges against her.  I believe the statute of limitations is 5 years from discovery.  She is aware of all of this.  Also, she is 49 years old.  When I hired her, I called the last business she was employed with, I think it was a Pension company,  I know the VP there very well.  At the time, I inquired about the need for a manager for my property.  He brought up only one name, hers.   She had been there for many years.  Her supervisor also gave me a glowing recommendation too.  She had access to volumes of personal information, which would have been easy to steal and use or sell--SS#, addresses, everything.  I also check everyones criminal record.  She has none.  I doubt I would ever do this again; but I do believe this is a very unique circumstance, and I pray it works.  In my heart of hearts, I don't believe if she wouldn't have been gambling, this would have ever happenned.  Your straight forward responses were very appreciated CMT, and you made me think long and hard.  I saw your points, and you made them well.  Yes, she cried.  Yes, she reminded me of her years of service and accomplishments.  I made her tell me of every illegal transaction she could remember doing.  She pulled out a piece of paper with every amount and date.  She told me that she had plans, in her warped gambling thinking, that she was going to repay this money someday when she got the money.  You could have knocked me over with a feather.  I believe that was my pivitol moment about hiring her back.  I am certain I wouldn't have if she hadn't pulled out that documentation.  That day was an epiphany for the both of us.  Anyone else?     

I'd still fire the CFO.

 

 

  We have definately spoken and have re-tuned procedures.

I was on the exact opposite side when i was younger.

I was the one doing the embezzling and had worked at this establishment for 5+ years and was very close friends with the boss which is why i got the job in the first place.

I would have never been caught had my buddy not got greedy but I can tell you I'm glad I did cuz who knows what kind of trouble I really could have gotten myself in.

He was so torn just like yourself....he was absolutely crushed. 

Months go by after being fired with my buddy and i get a phone call one day saying the quiet owners want to charge me because they've realized how much cash was embezzled.

He ended up cutting a deal with me, where I had to pay him 10K and they agreed to not charge me (although we both refused to sign any documents fearing blackmail/extortion repercussions)

Worst day of my life, not cuz of the money but because I've never felt so embarrased/scared/disappointed in my life. I ruined alot of close relationships and had a scarlett letter per se with people around me.

Since that day, I've been the straightest arrow known to man.  And had I been charged, hell no telling where i would be right now...scares me to even think about it.

I think you made the right choice.  I was always a great kid/student but when i found a way to secretly make money w/o hurting anyone (because nobody noticed for 4 years) I thought it was cool.

It took me 3-4 years to get over the whole ordeal.  In retrospect, I would have never ever ever ever ever done such a thing again, especially to someone who trusted me and vice versa.

 

Well put, MLB.  Appreciate you candor and sharing that teriffic story!

I can only imagine what she feels like, but I understand a little better now from your story.  You are exactly what I am hoping for in her, to be the straightest arrow posible.  I really believe that is what is going to happen.  Win/win.  She also, is paying me back, gentlemans agreement.

No worries, although I wouldn't call it terrific.

If you think she is contrite and has positive surroundings (family) there is no way she will do this again IMO and the feeling she has now will probably never leave her for the rest of her life.

It was just under 10 years ago for me, and to this day I still think about how dumb/lucky i was....even if I was just a teenager.

 

I never thought I was hurting my boss, even as I was taking the money. I thought hey what he doesn't know won't hurt him....stupid stupid rationale.  But atleast you should know it was not a personal attack...atleast not in her mind.

Seeing the look on his face will haunt me until the day i die.  He was such a good guy and I abused his trust. 

There is no feeling worse in life than that of disappointing someone who is close to you like that.

 

^Therein lies what I believe to be your fundamental flaw in this brouhaha. You're putting yourself in her shoes. Not to sound trite, but get a clue. She is the one that chose to steal from you. You only found out. You don't fire people - they fire themselves.What good can come of this? If word got out, you'll have some serious damage control to do with your current staff. That's a lofty risk IMHO. 1 person to potentially lose many?

By letting her back in, you're veiled threat of calling the law is nothing more than that. A good attorney will pick you apart if you chose to prosecute later. Also, when word got out about this, and it will, whomever you catch next will have a damn good defense.. "he let her borrow the money, why can't I? People are a helluva lot more astute than you think. Your employees know you better than you probably know yourself.

Too many landmines in this field for moi.

Well, my friend, how have things worked out so far?

This is all I can think of. You can't let crimes go unpunished... but ya, what ended up happening? New employee work out ok?

Give her a break.  She worked for him for 10 years as a good employee.  Obviously not that good but good enough.  I'm sure the employer didn't miss the money.

She couldn't have been that good of an employee while stealing.

 

As a long time employer, and having been robbed on a good number of ocassions, I can appreciate your situation.

You know the old expression ... Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice ...