9/11 conspiracy theories

Mysterious and Suspicious Deaths


Any prosecutor,would confirm that, there are several occasions where witnesses are afraid to testify because they thought they would be killed if they did.


 If the witness was fearful of retaliation because his testimony would destroy a friend or relative, and the prosecutor was unable to provide adequate protection for him, The prosecutor would never, of course, put pressure on him to testify if he was unwilling to do so.

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 We are all aware of the many examples of people killing others to "get even" with them for "squealing," betraying a trust.

 But if the witness , had no relationship at all with the person or group of people against whom he would be testifying, a prosecutor is nearly always able to convince him of the logic that the very safest thing for him to do would be to testify.

 If the person or group the witness feared knew he had something to say that could destroy them, the only legitimate fear was that they would kill him to prevent him from talking, that is, silence him before he talked

But once the witness talks and it's part of the public record, not only wouldn't the person or group achieve anything at all by killing the witness, but it could very definitely end jeopardizing them. They would immediately be drawing attention and suspicion to them­ selves, since the person who testified against them had been murdered.

Mysterious and Suspicious Deaths


To accept a mysterious-deaths allegation, one has to believe that in every single one of the  mysterious deaths alleged to be murders, the police or coroner's office that investigated each one and concluded the death was by natural causes or resulted from causes unrelated to the 9/11 must have succumbed to threats by the conspirators and deliberately wrote up a report that they knew ,vas wrong, or, in more than one cases, they were always wrong in their determination as to the cause of death.

Hey Pokin

I do look at the evidence from all points of view -- I've literally had training to do that. That being said, is it possible that this is all a big conspiracy and cover-up? Yes, it is possible. The government has shown they are not above false flag or shady operations, even against their own population. Now, the next question is that if it is possible, is it probable? Are there other more likely explanations? The answer for me to that question is a resounding YES, without hesitation (maybe that's because I am well-versed on the issues of political Islam and the spread of fundamentalist Wahhabist doctrine in the Sunni world, and do not doubt for a second that those crazy jihadists would literally DIE to do something like 9/11). I also agree that the government does know how to keep secrets -- but the problem here is the scope of the secret. What happened then to the people on the flight that "didn't" crash into the Pentagon? Wouldn't they have called their families, as they did prior to crashing? Did the government just kill them all?

Newborn is doing well, not keeping me up at night because I do the 10pm feeding while my wife does the 2am feeding... that early morning feeding of 6am is a bitch though considering he often wakes up at 5am hungry. I am getting something close to 6 hours of sleep a night -- not optimal but apparently that is light years better than some people get, so I am counting my blessings. Everyone who has a kid who sees my young one says that we have a good baby, so I have to believe them, you know?

Thanks for asking though friend

Hey Money -- for a dude that listens religiously to the JRE, I am not surprised that you don't trust the government. I don't either. But that doesn't mean that the government is behind every single bad act that occurs in history. They've done terrible stuff before, but I think their hands are relatively clean on this one.

Never assume that maliciousness is behind an action that can be easily explained by incompetence.

so much for your training then

so much for your training then

even with the most basic of basic training you would know this


On a national scale we see this phenomenon at work with one presidential administration after another being unable to control, frequently for even a few days, "leaks" to the media on matters they did not want known.

 (One exam­ ple among thousands: USA Today reported on]July 19,2002, that "recent news leaks [of classified information from a congressional probe of 9-11 intelligence failures] have infu­riated the 'White House and prompted Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to issue a memo warning that staffers who spill secrets are jeopardizing American lives.")'

In the JFK assassination case , we saw that although only a few members of the FBI's Dallas office were involved, they were unable to keep secret their effort to suppress Oswald's leaving a threatening note at the Dallas office about ten days or so before the assassination.



When we apply this literal rule of life to the alleged massive conspiracy the conspir­acy theorists claim existed in 9/11-massive not only in the considerable number of people who would have had to be involved,  but also in the great number of details and matters that would have had to be suppressed, any one of which could have exposed the plot or given rise to an inference of its existence, and which allegedly included the doctoring of many photographs and crime scenes,  and the murder of  people to silence them, and then the cover-up of each of these murders-we can be certain that if such a conspiracy took place, its existence would have broken out of its original shell in a thousand different ways, and relatively quickly.



 Yet after 10 years, not one credible word, not one syllable has ever surfaced about any conspiracy .

 The reason why not the slightest trace of a conspiracy has ever been uncovered, of course, is that no such conspiracy ever existed.

 We all know from our own experi­ences in life that it is almost impossible to keep a secret.

And that's when only a few peo­ple, even two, are involved, and even if the matter that one wishes to remain undisclosed isn't terribly important.

 Somehow or other the information gets out, and it does so rather quickly, whether induced by one's conscience, as in a death-bed confession, or through a former wife or mistress, or inadvertently, or simply because people can't keep their mouths shut.t

 I'll stipulate that three people can keep a secret, but only if two are dead.

Yup, the US government is sharp enough to pull off 9/11and to use that (along with the WMD B.S. story) to make a case for war with Iraq. Yup, they are so sharp that instead of recruiting Iraqis to fly the planes, they recruited Saudis.  Yup, that makes perfect sense.  

In his book, Loving God, former presidential assistant Charles Colson, in writing about Watergate, said, "With the most powerful office in the world at stake, a small band of hand-picked loyalists [of President Richard Nixon] ... could not hold a conspiracy together for more than two weeks.


Obviously, the more complicated a plot is, the greater the likelihood that something will go wrong and it won't work.

 Everyone intuitively knows this, and hence we can assume that if there had been a 9/11 plot, the plotters would have made it as uncom­plicated as possible. But the massive conspiracy envisioned by most conspiracy theorists necessarily would be extremely complex, and this fact is greatly exacerbated by the ineptitude of human beings.


 The staggering incompetence at every level of our society, one that normally prevents any group, large or small, including the US. government and its agen­cies, from performing at anywhere near optimum capacity.

Indeed, on a scale of one to ten, they normally operate below five.

 Incompetence is so widely prevalent that it is expected, and when one finds competence ,one is always pleasantly surprised.

 One example among a great many, this one at the CIA, the main federal agency conspiracy theorists suspect of being behind the assassination.

 In 1994, Aldrich Ames, chief of the CIA's Soviet counterintelligence branch, pleaded guilty to the biggest espionage case in U.S. history.

Ames furnished the Soviets US. secrets in return for more than $2 million. His per­fidy led to the deaths of several Russian undercover agents working for the United States in the Soviet Union. Ames told his interrogators it was "really easy" to obtain the top­ secret information even after he was transferred to anti-narcotics work in the early 1990s.

In noting that it took an incredible nine years for Ames's colleagues and superiors at CIA headquarters to catch him, syndicated columnist Mary McGrory wrote that "Ames
and his wife did everything they could to arouse suspicion, living it up in the most provocative manner. What G5-14, on a salary of $69,000-plus, pays half a million in cash [$540,000] for a house in Arlington, Virginia, buys a bright red Jaguar [which he drove to work] and runs up Trumplike charges on his credit card?" A November 1994 report on the Ames case from the Senate Intelligence Committee found "gross negligence" ("negligence" being a euphemism here for incompetence) at CIA headquarters in Langley, Vir­ginia, and reports from both the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Select Committee on Intelligence "agreed that the agency [CIA] is in deep disarray," a condi­ tion, they said, that long predated the Ames case.

In 1986 the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), with billions of dollars spent, and the finest scientific minds available, and with the space shut­tle Challenger right in front of their noses for inspection, and with a defective pressure seal wrongly designed and about which they had been advised and warned on  numerous occa­sions, sent seven astronauts to their death because of their dreadful incompetence.



 Speak ing of NASA, on the first day of the Apollo 8 flight that circumnavigated the moon, when Colonel Frank Borman, the commander of the flight, was sending transmissions back to Cape Kennedy, he referred to the Apollo 8 flight as the Gemini 8 flight, a flight he had participated in three years earlier. That's life in the real world.

While we're talking about incompetence, let's look at an extreme example of it in the Kennedy case .

 Established procedure in the Secret Service during a presidential motorcade is to scan not only the crowds but also the roofs and windows of buildings as the motorcade goes along.

 But apparently, and unbelievably not one of the sixteen Secret Service agents in the motorcade through Dealey Plaza was looking anywhere near the upper floors of the Book Depository Building.

 If they had, they would have seen (as several Dealey Plaza witnesses who never had any obligation to look for such things did) a figure or a rifle in the window where Oswald was

. But there's no evidence, from any of the reports of the agents, that they saw anything in Oswald's window or even saw the three black Book Depository employees in the two windows beneath Oswald's window:

  Where in the hell were their heads when the president's limousine passed by the Book Deposi­tory Building, other than up the proverbial place?

Special Agent Roy Kellerman told the ·Warren Commission that in the Secret Service detail protecting the president, "when you are driving down [the] street ... and you have buildings on either side of you, you are going to scan your eyes up and down" the buildings.

 Can you imagine that? Thirty-two trained eyes belonging to sixteen men whose duty and responsibility was to protect the president, and not one of these thirty-two eyes saw Oswald, or a rifle, or anything worthy of their attention in the sniper's nest window.

 But several lay people did, and they were only there to watch the motorcade, not watch over the president's security.

The question is,

 How could the vast number of conspirators contemplated by the theorists have pulled off this incredibly complex conspiracy to such a degree of skill­ never bumbling or slipping in any way that would reveal or even suggest their existence to one outside their group--that eternal secrecy would be guaranteed?

Easy.

 You see, we know human beings are unable to keep their mouths shut and routinely incompetent, frequently stumbling over their own feet.

 But the conspirators envisioned by the theo­rists have their mouths permanently zippered and are extraordinarily competent, even prescient, being able to predict faultlessly all of the many uncontrollable variables in their mission to the point where everything worked perfectly, and with mathematical precision.

BMA, I know you are skeptical (probably too light of a word) about the possibility that there is some grand 9/11 conspiracy, but you at least have to be open minded to the possibility. Our government has done false flag operations in the past, no reason to think it couldn't or wouldn't occur in the future. With all that though, I find it highly, highly unlikely that it occurred in this situation.

BMA,

Russia and China are not even close to the same level as the United States. Russia is just a bunch of bears on unicycles. Things like basic electricity, cable, and plumbing are still a problem in Russia. You actually consider an empire stuck in Medieval times a threat?  

I’m sorry if I don’t take China seriously either. If your president and military personnel march in goose step, still where wool and dress like doctor evil? It’s hard to take them serious with a straight face. Russia and China still live in the past.

The United States lives in Modern times and is living in the future already. The US has the most powerful military technology in the world.

“We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world – no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”  
~ President Woodrow Wilson

"By the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions. You may find you can get away with Virtual Presidents, Virtual Prime Ministers, and Virtual Everything."
~President Bill Clinton

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."
~ President John F. Kennedy

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
~ President Dwight D. Eisenhower

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way."
~ President Franklin D. Roosevelt

I guess these presidents were just conspiracy nuts.

One of the most fascinating aspects of Operation Northwoods involved the proposed hijacking of an American passenger plane and to create public support for a war and 39 years later 911 happened and a war with Iraq and Afghanistan with public support.

I guess operation northwoods was just a coincidence but it is a hell of a coincidence.

Underground government cities, NSA secret buildings, and Area 51are examples of secrecy.   

Politicians are stupid but the FBI and CIA are the brightest agencies in the world and the most powerful military in the world is extremely bright and secretive.

So, sorry if I don’t believe the most powerful and intelligent military in the world is not capable of doing something so simple as 911.

You don’t know and I don’t know and that is the only thing we can be sure of.

FBI and CIA are the brightest agencies



In 1994, Aldrich Ames, chief of the CIA's Soviet counterintelligence branch, pleaded guilty to the biggest espionage case in U.S. history.

Ames furnished the Soviets US. secrets in return for more than $2 million. His per­fidy led to the deaths of several Russian undercover agents working for the United States in the Soviet Union. Ames told his interrogators it was "really easy" to obtain the top­ secret information even after he was transferred to anti-narcotics work in the early 1990s.

In noting that it took an incredible nine years for Ames's colleagues and superiors at CIA headquarters to catch him,

 syndicated columnist Mary McGrory wrote that "Ames
and his wife did everything they could to arouse suspicion,

living it up in the most provocative manner.

 What G5-14, on a salary of $69,000-plus, pays half a million in cash [$540,000] for a house in Arlington, Virginia, buys a bright red Jaguar [which he drove to work] and runs up Trumplike charges on his credit card?"

 A November 1994 report on the Ames case from the Senate Intelligence Committee found "gross negligence" ("negligence" being a euphemism here for incompetence) at CIA headquarters in Langley, Vir­ginia, and reports from both the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Select Committee on Intelligence "agreed that the agency [CIA] is in deep disarray," a condi­ tion, they said, that long predated the Ames case.

FBI and CIA are the brightest agencies


In the JFK assassination case , we saw that although only a few members of the FBI's Dallas office were involved, they were unable to keep secret their effort to suppress Oswald's leaving a threatening note at the Dallas office about ten days or so before the assassination.

and the most powerful military in the world is extremely bright and secretive.



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Bradley Manning, the US soldier accused of spilling a massive trove of military secrets to WikiLeaks

MoneySRH
"By the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions. You may find you can get away with Virtual Presidents, Virtual Prime Ministers, and Virtual Everything."
~President Bill Clinton

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It was a joke about how much signing his name he does.
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Of course there's a degree of truth behind it. Much of the things he signed were acts of congress, and not his decisions at all. But that's just the way the government works. Nothing like the implied conspiracy of shadowy figures behind the presidency. Such as in this mis-usage
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William J. Clinton    
Remarks to Employees at Gateway, Inc., in Santry, Ireland
September 4, 1998


Thank you for the wonderful welcome, the waving flag, the terrific shirts. I want one of those shirts before I leave. At least shirts have not become virtual; you can actually have one of them. [Laughter]

I want to say to the Taoiseach how very grateful I am for his leadership and friendship. But I must say that I was somewhat ambivalent when we were up here giving our virtual signatures. Do you have any idea how much time I spend every day signing my name? I'm going to feel utterly useless if I can't do that anymore. [Laughter] By the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions; you just sign your name. [Laughter] You may find you can get away with virtual Presidents, virtual Prime Ministers, virtual everything. Just stick a little card in and get the predictable response.

I want to congratulate Baltimore Technologies on making this possible, as well. And Ted Waitt, let me thank you for the tour of this wonderful facility. As an American, I have to do one little chauvinist thing. I asked Ted—I saw the Gateway—do you see the Gateway boxes over there and the Gateway logo, and I got a Gateway golf bag before I came in, and it was black and white like this. So I said, "Where did this logo come from?" And he said, "It's spots on a cow." He said, "We started in South Dakota and Iowa and people said, ‘How can there be a computer company in the farmland of America?"' And now there is one in the farmland of America that happens to be in Ireland. [Laughter]

full speech

#

like they did with the moon landing right? not saying we landed or did not but they think that we didn't...

OK, BMA you got me on one of the quotes. Continue

Who is calling the government and all of its tentacles stupid? To characterize the government and all of its branches as one entity is simply childish.

Speaking of childishness, you seem to behaving like the biggest child in this thread with all the name calling and rolling emoticons.

MoneySRH

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."
~ President John F. Kennedy
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is not a legitimate quote
there is no original source

MoneySRH

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. debunk

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The phrase was thought to have been "war-based" industrial complex before becoming "military" in later drafts of Eisenhower's speech, a claim passed on only by oral history.Geoffrey Perret, in his biography of Eisenhower, claims that, in one draft of the speech, the phrase was "military-industrial-congressional complex", indicating the essential role that the United States Congress plays in the propagation of the military industry, but the word "congressional" was dropped from the final version to appease the then-currently elected officials. James Ledbetter calls this a "stubborn misconception" not supported by any evidence; likewise a claim by Douglas Brinkley that it was originally "military-industrial-scientific complex". Additionally, Henry Giroux claims that it was originally "military-industrial-academic complex". The actual authors of the speech were Eisenhower's speechwriters Ralph E. Williams and Malcolm Moos.

MoneySRH


“We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world – no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”  
~ President Woodrow Wilson

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Note that on wikipedia they don't know what the source for that quote is either
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    I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.

This is a well-known conflation of several quotes, only two of which can actually be attributed to Woodrow Wilson. The source of the first two sentences is unknown, and nowhere on record can be found to be said by Wilson. The third sentence (although slightly altered in this version) is found in the eighth chapter of Wilson's book, The New Freedom,[24] and originally reads:

    A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

The final sentence (beginning with "We are no longer..."), although again slightly altered from its original version, can also be found in The New Freedom (ninth chapter), and in its original context, reads:

    We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.