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    All Forums | General Discussion

    9/11 conspiracy theories

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    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:13 AM ET #301

    NY911truth’s spent an hour arguing with an Air Force morgue technician who processed the remains from the Pentagon. Remember, this group claims that there were no remains of flight 77 passengers at the Pentagon, because that plane never crashed there. It takes a special kind of person to make that argument to the face of someone who personally handled those charred remains.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities

    What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

    A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

    Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

    AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack.

    "Our staff represented every branch of service," said Navy Capt. Glenn N. Wagner, AFIP director. "We also received tremendous support from the doctors, nurses and technicians stationed at Dover who participated in the investigation."

    AFIP used a well-designed and tested system for identifying the Pentagon victims. When remains arrived at Dover Air Force Base, a scanning device searched for the presence of unexploded ordnance or metallic foreign bodies. FBI experts collected trace evidence to search for chemicals from explosive devices and conducted fingerprint identifications.

    Forensic dentistry experts then performed dental charting and comparison with existing dental records. Full-body radiographs followed to document skeletal fractures and assist in identification, followed by autopsy inspection. At autopsy, forensic pathologists determined the cause of death, and a forensic anthropologist determined race, sex and stature of victims when necessary.

    An epidemiologist managed the tracking system for data collected during the autopsy process, and tissue samples were collected for DNA identification and further toxicology studies. Forensic photographers documented injuries and personal effects. Finally, mortuary specialists embalmed, dressed and casketed remains.

    For eight days a full complement of AFIP forensic specialists worked 12-hour shifts to complete the identification system.

    From DNA samples sent to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, scientists there generated DNA profiles of the victims. Their work also included the victims of United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Somerset County, Pa.

    The DNA lab's entire staff of 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, and logistics and administrative personnel worked 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to complete the work.

    DNA identifications for Flight 93 victims were sent to the Somerset County Coroner's Office for release. The Department of Defense released identification of Pentagon victims. All but four who worked in the Pentagon were identified. AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

    From the January 2002 Mercury, an Army Medical Department publication.







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    NY911truth’s spent an hour arguing with an Air Force morgue technician who processed the remains from the Pentagon. Remember, this group claims that there were no remains of flight 77 passengers at the Pentagon, because that plane never crashed there. It takes a special kind of person to make that argument to the face of someone who personally handled those charred remains.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities

    What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.

    A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology played a major role in Operation Nobel Eagle investigations, officials said. AFIP is an executive agency of the Army surgeon general.

    Many of the Pentagon casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital; the rest were killed on site. For some victims, only pieces of tissue could be found.

    AFIP's team of forensic pathologists, odontologists, a forensic anthropologist, DNA experts, investigators and support personnel worked for more than two weeks in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base, Del., and for weeks at the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Md., to identify victims of the attack.

    "Our staff represented every branch of service," said Navy Capt. Glenn N. Wagner, AFIP director. "We also received tremendous support from the doctors, nurses and technicians stationed at Dover who participated in the investigation."

    AFIP used a well-designed and tested system for identifying the Pentagon victims. When remains arrived at Dover Air Force Base, a scanning device searched for the presence of unexploded ordnance or metallic foreign bodies. FBI experts collected trace evidence to search for chemicals from explosive devices and conducted fingerprint identifications.

    Forensic dentistry experts then performed dental charting and comparison with existing dental records. Full-body radiographs followed to document skeletal fractures and assist in identification, followed by autopsy inspection. At autopsy, forensic pathologists determined the cause of death, and a forensic anthropologist determined race, sex and stature of victims when necessary.

    An epidemiologist managed the tracking system for data collected during the autopsy process, and tissue samples were collected for DNA identification and further toxicology studies. Forensic photographers documented injuries and personal effects. Finally, mortuary specialists embalmed, dressed and casketed remains.

    For eight days a full complement of AFIP forensic specialists worked 12-hour shifts to complete the identification system.

    From DNA samples sent to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, scientists there generated DNA profiles of the victims. Their work also included the victims of United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Somerset County, Pa.

    The DNA lab's entire staff of 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, and logistics and administrative personnel worked 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to complete the work.

    DNA identifications for Flight 93 victims were sent to the Somerset County Coroner's Office for release. The Department of Defense released identification of Pentagon victims. All but four who worked in the Pentagon were identified. AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

    From the January 2002 Mercury, an Army Medical Department publication.







     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:24 AM ET #302

    NY911truth’s

     these people give absolution to terrorists while accusing innocent people of mass murder, all without a shred of evidence.  They are the most delusional people , and their delusions are dangerous.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     On September 11, 2006, about a thousand members of the “9/11 Truth Movement” gathered at Ground Zero during memorial services to protest what they believe is the US government’s involvement in the attacks.
    They wore black shirts that said “Investigate 911” and carried banners that said “USA Did 9/11,” “The Bush Regime Engineered 9-11,” and the ever-popular “9/11 Was an Inside Job!”

    This throng of wrong was led by Alex Jones (not to be confused with journalist Alex S. Jones), a conspiracy salesman whose radio show, website, and videos make him the Prince of Paranoia to those who fear they’re being followed by silent black helicopters. Note how he works the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 into this brief audio clip, in which he plays a scary arachnid that’s out to ensnare us and take our freedoms away. Jones claims, apparently in all seriousness, that members of the U.S. political and economic elite practice satanic occult rituals. He also claimed:
    They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans. (Alex Jones Radio Show, 7/11/02)
    A good example of what a grandstanding, braying jackass Jones is can be seen in a video shot in New York on September 9, 2006 by the Loose Change crew: https://tinyurl.com/r3sxl. They enter a buffet restaurant, and at 1:40 in the video Jones approaches a group of Marines at a table and begins harassing them. The Marines leave the restaurant, with Jones and two cameramen on their heels. Jones follows them down the street while lecturing them about WTC building 7 being “pulled” and “thermite” being found on steel at Ground Zero (more about these falsehoods later). The Marines walk on with dignity. Jones takes a parting shot while jabbing his finger in the air:
    “The military-industrial complex tried to get this republic, but they failed!”


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    NY911truth’s

     these people give absolution to terrorists while accusing innocent people of mass murder, all without a shred of evidence.  They are the most delusional people , and their delusions are dangerous.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     On September 11, 2006, about a thousand members of the “9/11 Truth Movement” gathered at Ground Zero during memorial services to protest what they believe is the US government’s involvement in the attacks.
    They wore black shirts that said “Investigate 911” and carried banners that said “USA Did 9/11,” “The Bush Regime Engineered 9-11,” and the ever-popular “9/11 Was an Inside Job!”

    This throng of wrong was led by Alex Jones (not to be confused with journalist Alex S. Jones), a conspiracy salesman whose radio show, website, and videos make him the Prince of Paranoia to those who fear they’re being followed by silent black helicopters. Note how he works the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 into this brief audio clip, in which he plays a scary arachnid that’s out to ensnare us and take our freedoms away. Jones claims, apparently in all seriousness, that members of the U.S. political and economic elite practice satanic occult rituals. He also claimed:
    They're preparing for new terrorist attacks that are much larger. & they're planning to bring in foreign armies....The U.S. government is going to engage in large terrorist attacks domestically & probably internationally...They may kill millions of Americans. (Alex Jones Radio Show, 7/11/02)
    A good example of what a grandstanding, braying jackass Jones is can be seen in a video shot in New York on September 9, 2006 by the Loose Change crew: https://tinyurl.com/r3sxl. They enter a buffet restaurant, and at 1:40 in the video Jones approaches a group of Marines at a table and begins harassing them. The Marines leave the restaurant, with Jones and two cameramen on their heels. Jones follows them down the street while lecturing them about WTC building 7 being “pulled” and “thermite” being found on steel at Ground Zero (more about these falsehoods later). The Marines walk on with dignity. Jones takes a parting shot while jabbing his finger in the air:
    “The military-industrial complex tried to get this republic, but they failed!”


     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:40 AM ET #303

    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    did Larry Silverstein, a real estate developer, have the world’s largest fire department at his beck and call? Of course not. Larry Silverstein had no say in how firefighting operations in New York City were conducted.


    Who made the decision to pull? They. The fire department

    they pull their people away from buildings that are too dangerous to be near



    During an interview in 2002 for the PBS documentary America Rebuilds: A Year at Ground Zero, Mr. Silverstein said this about the fate of building 7 on 9/11:
    "I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein


    Summary of World Trade Center Building 7 Emergency Response

    • The building had sustained damage from debris falling into the building, and they were not sure about the structural stability of the building.
    • The building had large fires burning on at least six floors. Any one of these six fires would have been considered a large incident during normal FDNY operations.
    • There was no water immediately available for fighting the fires.
    • They didn’t have equipment, hose, standpipe kits, tools, and enough handie talkies for conducting operations inside the building.
    At approximately, 2:30 p.m., FDNY officers decided to completely abandon WTC 7, and the final order was given to evacuate the site around the building. The order terminated the ongoing rescue operations at WTC 6 and on the rubble pile of WTC 1. Firefighters and other emergency responders were withdrawn from the WTC 7 area, and the building continued to burn. At approximately 5:20 p.m., some three hours after WTC 7 was abandoned the building experienced a catastrophic failure and collapsed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    did Larry Silverstein, a real estate developer, have the world’s largest fire department at his beck and call? Of course not. Larry Silverstein had no say in how firefighting operations in New York City were conducted.


    Who made the decision to pull? They. The fire department

    they pull their people away from buildings that are too dangerous to be near



    During an interview in 2002 for the PBS documentary America Rebuilds: A Year at Ground Zero, Mr. Silverstein said this about the fate of building 7 on 9/11:
    "I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse." –Larry Silverstein


    Summary of World Trade Center Building 7 Emergency Response

    • The building had sustained damage from debris falling into the building, and they were not sure about the structural stability of the building.
    • The building had large fires burning on at least six floors. Any one of these six fires would have been considered a large incident during normal FDNY operations.
    • There was no water immediately available for fighting the fires.
    • They didn’t have equipment, hose, standpipe kits, tools, and enough handie talkies for conducting operations inside the building.
    At approximately, 2:30 p.m., FDNY officers decided to completely abandon WTC 7, and the final order was given to evacuate the site around the building. The order terminated the ongoing rescue operations at WTC 6 and on the rubble pile of WTC 1. Firefighters and other emergency responders were withdrawn from the WTC 7 area, and the building continued to burn. At approximately 5:20 p.m., some three hours after WTC 7 was abandoned the building experienced a catastrophic failure and collapsed.

     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:42 AM ET #304

    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Here’s a much-reprinted quote from FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:

    The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt. [Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]

    The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the collapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. https://tinyurl.com/g8c6y

    That’s certainly straightforward. Building 7 was severely damaged and had severe, uncontrollable fires, and the FDNY withdrew its firefighters to protect their safety.



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    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Here’s a much-reprinted quote from FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:

    The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt. [Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]

    The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the collapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. https://tinyurl.com/g8c6y

    That’s certainly straightforward. Building 7 was severely damaged and had severe, uncontrollable fires, and the FDNY withdrew its firefighters to protect their safety.



     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:50 AM ET #305

    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again and again, “pull” is how firefighters and EMTs describe the afternoon withdrawal from the area in and around WTC 7. In the accounts , excluding Larry Silverstein’s, “pull” is used 26 times to refer to the withdrawal of WTC firefighting operations. 23 of those references are about WTC 7. Add Silverstein’s statement and we’ve got 28 references to “pull” meaning “withdraw.” Details are in the appendix. My survey was by no means exhaustive.

    Here’s a summary of the first-person accounts I’ve read:

    People who specifically mention the severity of the WTC 7 fires    35
    People who specifically mention the extensive damage to WTC 7    25
    People who mention the FDNY order to withdraw from WTC 7 area    92
    Number of times “Pull” is used to mean “withdraw rescuers”    28
    Number of people who use “Pull” to mean “withdraw rescuers”    16
    Other witnesses who say the collapse of WTC 7 was expected    28   
        Total   208

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    Quote Originally Posted by slikstiks99:

    I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

    Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

    Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Again and again, “pull” is how firefighters and EMTs describe the afternoon withdrawal from the area in and around WTC 7. In the accounts , excluding Larry Silverstein’s, “pull” is used 26 times to refer to the withdrawal of WTC firefighting operations. 23 of those references are about WTC 7. Add Silverstein’s statement and we’ve got 28 references to “pull” meaning “withdraw.” Details are in the appendix. My survey was by no means exhaustive.

    Here’s a summary of the first-person accounts I’ve read:

    People who specifically mention the severity of the WTC 7 fires    35
    People who specifically mention the extensive damage to WTC 7    25
    People who mention the FDNY order to withdraw from WTC 7 area    92
    Number of times “Pull” is used to mean “withdraw rescuers”    28
    Number of people who use “Pull” to mean “withdraw rescuers”    16
    Other witnesses who say the collapse of WTC 7 was expected    28   
        Total   208

     
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:55 AM ET #306

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?
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    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?
     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 5:57 AM ET #307

    Seismic data from multiple sources indicates that, as with the Twin Towers, the collapse of WTC 7 began slowly, completely unlike an explosive demolition but consistent with internal failures leading to global collapse


    Any detonation of explosives within WTC 7 would have been detected by multiple seismographs monitoring ground vibration in the general area. No such telltale “spike” or vibratory anomaly was recorded by any monitoring instrument.  –Brent Blanchard of Protec https://tinyurl.com/z6zyc


    Explosive demolitions would not be very controlled, or likely to work at all, if they involved slamming tons of skyscraper debris through a building and then setting it on fire for seven hours. Precision explosives, timers, and wiring don’t like that sort of treatment.



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    Seismic data from multiple sources indicates that, as with the Twin Towers, the collapse of WTC 7 began slowly, completely unlike an explosive demolition but consistent with internal failures leading to global collapse


    Any detonation of explosives within WTC 7 would have been detected by multiple seismographs monitoring ground vibration in the general area. No such telltale “spike” or vibratory anomaly was recorded by any monitoring instrument.  –Brent Blanchard of Protec https://tinyurl.com/z6zyc


    Explosive demolitions would not be very controlled, or likely to work at all, if they involved slamming tons of skyscraper debris through a building and then setting it on fire for seven hours. Precision explosives, timers, and wiring don’t like that sort of treatment.



     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:08 AM ET #308

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    don't read copy and pate, visit the NIST websits and read about the experts and the reports, findings, trouble is people will not do that

    ________________________________________

    BBC documentary
    .
    9/11 Conspiracy Road Trip - BBC - Full Version

    The same question was asked by a truther at approx 6.24, they were taken to an airfield and met by a flight instructor, the answer is given by the expert with a demo



    link


    and if you are genuinely interested you can watch the video and see how other questions are answered and gain an insight into the mind set of some of these truthers



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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    don't read copy and pate, visit the NIST websits and read about the experts and the reports, findings, trouble is people will not do that

    ________________________________________

    BBC documentary
    .
    9/11 Conspiracy Road Trip - BBC - Full Version

    The same question was asked by a truther at approx 6.24, they were taken to an airfield and met by a flight instructor, the answer is given by the expert with a demo



    link


    and if you are genuinely interested you can watch the video and see how other questions are answered and gain an insight into the mind set of some of these truthers



     
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:16 AM ET #309

    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?

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    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?

     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:23 AM ET #310

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?


    --------------------------------------------------

    I've stayed away from this thread, seen it drop out of sight only to be resurrected again and again .

    Out of respect for this country and  for respect of those who died that day, those who choose to  dishonour the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day."will be answered

    #

    #

    #
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?


    --------------------------------------------------

    I've stayed away from this thread, seen it drop out of sight only to be resurrected again and again .

    Out of respect for this country and  for respect of those who died that day, those who choose to  dishonour the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day."will be answered

    #

    #

    #
     
    BMA
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:27 AM ET #311

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?




    the answer is at 6.24 and lasts a couple of minutes, you can see it quickly, the rest of the video covers all other points, but the flighing aspect is coverd from 6.24 minutes to 10.24 minutes, just move the  video slide to 6.24 if you really wish to see the answer



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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?




    the answer is at 6.24 and lasts a couple of minutes, you can see it quickly, the rest of the video covers all other points, but the flighing aspect is coverd from 6.24 minutes to 10.24 minutes, just move the  video slide to 6.24 if you really wish to see the answer



     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:32 AM ET #312

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?




    My opinion is that a conspiracy theory is Absurd.


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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    So my choice is to read through 308 posts here or watch an hour video which may or may not have an answer to 2 simple questions that I asked you?

    Can you not give an opinion without copying and pasting something that you read that is of course what YOU believe?




    My opinion is that a conspiracy theory is Absurd.


     
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:32 AM ET #313

    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:




    the answer is at 6.24 and lasts a couple of minutes, you can see it quickly, the rest of the video covers all other points, but the flighing aspect is coverd from 6.24 minutes to 10.24 minutes, just move the  video slide to 6.24 if you really wish to see the answer



    That has ZERO to do with what I asked.

    ........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:




    the answer is at 6.24 and lasts a couple of minutes, you can see it quickly, the rest of the video covers all other points, but the flighing aspect is coverd from 6.24 minutes to 10.24 minutes, just move the  video slide to 6.24 if you really wish to see the answer



    That has ZERO to do with what I asked.

    ........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?

     
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:41 AM ET #314

    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:




    My opinion is that a conspiracy theory is Absurd.


    That's OK.....I'm used to not getting an answer to my questions about this subject.

    At least you didn't answer my question with a question like Hutch does.

    Carry on copying and pasting instead of forming your own opinion of obvious flaws in what you read. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:




    My opinion is that a conspiracy theory is Absurd.


    That's OK.....I'm used to not getting an answer to my questions about this subject.

    At least you didn't answer my question with a question like Hutch does.

    Carry on copying and pasting instead of forming your own opinion of obvious flaws in what you read. 

     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:45 AM ET #315

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.



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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.



     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 6:52 AM ET #316

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    That's OK.....I'm used to not getting an answer to my questions about this subject.

    At least you didn't answer my question with a question like Hutch does.

    Carry on copying and pasting instead of forming your own opinion of obvious flaws in what you read. 



    I can only form opinions on the basic principles that occur in ones life, such as the inability for secrets to be kept, the incompetency of Governments that is so obvious, yet when it comes to killing their own people they do this so remarkably well. 

    I have no expertize, in buildings,fire, flying,metallurgy, physics, structural or civil engineering. That's why I visit sites of experts and copy and paste expert opinion as support for arguments.


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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    That's OK.....I'm used to not getting an answer to my questions about this subject.

    At least you didn't answer my question with a question like Hutch does.

    Carry on copying and pasting instead of forming your own opinion of obvious flaws in what you read. 



    I can only form opinions on the basic principles that occur in ones life, such as the inability for secrets to be kept, the incompetency of Governments that is so obvious, yet when it comes to killing their own people they do this so remarkably well. 

    I have no expertize, in buildings,fire, flying,metallurgy, physics, structural or civil engineering. That's why I visit sites of experts and copy and paste expert opinion as support for arguments.


     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:05 AM ET #317

    QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Why do you bother to quote my questions ....than answer it with a question?.............If you can't form an opinion on it just say so.

    It has nothing to do with how many people can keep there mouth shut.

    The problem with you and Hutch is ....just because a person asks one or two questions you guys make it sound like that person believes EVERYTHING that is questioned by conspiracy truthers on this event and any other in history.

    What I underlined in RED seems so true.

     

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    QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Why do you bother to quote my questions ....than answer it with a question?.............If you can't form an opinion on it just say so.

    It has nothing to do with how many people can keep there mouth shut.

    The problem with you and Hutch is ....just because a person asks one or two questions you guys make it sound like that person believes EVERYTHING that is questioned by conspiracy truthers on this event and any other in history.

    What I underlined in RED seems so true.

     

     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:08 AM ET #318

    If people wish to believe that the American Government murdered its own Citizens, that is their right and belief. I have no desire to attempt to change their opinion or belief.

    I respond on here to defend the honour of this Great Country and its People and the memory of those that died that day and the families that lost loved ones.

     
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    If people wish to believe that the American Government murdered its own Citizens, that is their right and belief. I have no desire to attempt to change their opinion or belief.

    I respond on here to defend the honour of this Great Country and its People and the memory of those that died that day and the families that lost loved ones.

     
     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:15 AM ET #319

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Why do you bother to quote my questions ....than answer it with a question?.............If you can't form an opinion on it just say so.

    It has nothing to do with how many people can keep there mouth shut.

    The problem with you and Hutch is ....just because a person asks one or two questions you guys make it sound like that person believes EVERYTHING that is questioned by conspiracy truthers on this event and any other in history.

    What I underlined in RED seems so true.

     



    yes it has everything to do with that, if you don't belive the expert opinion on the events at the Pentagon, then thousands of people have to keep their mouths shut. 
    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities
    AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    BMA......I'm not going to sift through your copy and paste 100 page thesis here to see if you already pasted this so I ask you........Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    can you see that a conspiracy is not possible, due to the basic principle that we all see in our daily lives people can't keep secrets, we all know that. Yet to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. You know from, Irangate,Watergate and many more Government can't stop leaks, even those involving a handful of people.. Its such a no brainier, I can't comprehend how the truthers fail this most obvious and basic principle.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Why do you bother to quote my questions ....than answer it with a question?.............If you can't form an opinion on it just say so.

    It has nothing to do with how many people can keep there mouth shut.

    The problem with you and Hutch is ....just because a person asks one or two questions you guys make it sound like that person believes EVERYTHING that is questioned by conspiracy truthers on this event and any other in history.

    What I underlined in RED seems so true.

     



    yes it has everything to do with that, if you don't belive the expert opinion on the events at the Pentagon, then thousands of people have to keep their mouths shut. 
    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities
    AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

     
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:20 AM ET #320

    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:

    If people wish to believe that the American Government murdered its own Citizens, that is their right and belief. I have no desire to attempt to change their opinion or belief.

    I respond on here to defend the honour of this Great Country and its People and the memory of those that died that day and the families that lost loved ones.

     

    Guess what?.....Me too.  

    That's why I think the 911 commision report is as bogus as it gets....

    But I guess you think that if anyone questions anything from that day it is a slap to the face to those who died.

     

    By the way.......Pretty bad choice of 5 people in that video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:

    If people wish to believe that the American Government murdered its own Citizens, that is their right and belief. I have no desire to attempt to change their opinion or belief.

    I respond on here to defend the honour of this Great Country and its People and the memory of those that died that day and the families that lost loved ones.

     

    Guess what?.....Me too.  

    That's why I think the 911 commision report is as bogus as it gets....

    But I guess you think that if anyone questions anything from that day it is a slap to the face to those who died.

     

    By the way.......Pretty bad choice of 5 people in that video.

     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:28 AM ET #321

    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    Guess what?.....Me too.  

    That's why I think the 911 commision report is as bogus as it gets....

    But I guess you think that if anyone questions anything from that day it is a slap to the face to those who died.

     

    By the way.......Pretty bad choice of 5 people in that video.




    Take that up with the BBC,


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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

    Guess what?.....Me too.  

    That's why I think the 911 commision report is as bogus as it gets....

    But I guess you think that if anyone questions anything from that day it is a slap to the face to those who died.

     

    By the way.......Pretty bad choice of 5 people in that video.




    Take that up with the BBC,


     
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:30 AM ET #322

    Pentagon Building Performance Study 2001

    On September 11, 2001, a hijacked commercial airliner was intentionally crashed into the building in an act of terrorism. One hundred eighty-nine persons were killed and a portion of the building was damaged by the associated impact, deflagration, and fire.

    That same day the American Society of Civil Engineers established a building performance study (BPS) team (that included one NIST researcher) to examine the damaged structure and make recommendations for the future. Team members possess expertise in structural, fire, and forensic engineering. The BPS team's analysis of the Pentagon and the damage resulting from the attack was conducted between September 2001 and April 2002.

    The members of the BPS team inspected the site as soon as was possible without interfering with the rescue and recovery operations. They reviewed the original plans, the renovation plans, and available information on the material properties of the structure. They scrutinized aircraft data, eyewitness information, and fatality records; consulted with the urban search and rescue engineers, the chief renovation engineer, and the engineer in charge of the crash site reconstruction; and examined the quick, focused assessments of the disaster conducted by the United States Army Corps of Engineers and Pentagon Renovation Program staff.

    The BPS team concluded that the impact of the aircraft destroyed or significantly impaired approximately 50 structural columns. The ensuing fire weakened a number of other structural elements. However, only a very small segment of the affected structure collapsed, approximately 20 minutes after impact. The collapse, fatalities, and damage were mitigated by the Pentagon's resilient structural system. Very few upgraded windows installed during the renovation broke during the impact and deflagration of aircraft fuel. The BPS team recommends that the features of the Pentagon's design that contributed to its resiliency in the crash—that is, continuity, redundancy, and energy-absorbing capacity—be incorporated in the future into the designs of buildings and other structures in which resistance to progressive collapse is deemed important. The team further advocates that additional research and development be conducted in the practical implementation of measures to mitigate progressive collapse and in the deformation capacity of spirally reinforced columns subjected to lateral loads applied over the height of the column.

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    Pentagon Building Performance Study 2001

    On September 11, 2001, a hijacked commercial airliner was intentionally crashed into the building in an act of terrorism. One hundred eighty-nine persons were killed and a portion of the building was damaged by the associated impact, deflagration, and fire.

    That same day the American Society of Civil Engineers established a building performance study (BPS) team (that included one NIST researcher) to examine the damaged structure and make recommendations for the future. Team members possess expertise in structural, fire, and forensic engineering. The BPS team's analysis of the Pentagon and the damage resulting from the attack was conducted between September 2001 and April 2002.

    The members of the BPS team inspected the site as soon as was possible without interfering with the rescue and recovery operations. They reviewed the original plans, the renovation plans, and available information on the material properties of the structure. They scrutinized aircraft data, eyewitness information, and fatality records; consulted with the urban search and rescue engineers, the chief renovation engineer, and the engineer in charge of the crash site reconstruction; and examined the quick, focused assessments of the disaster conducted by the United States Army Corps of Engineers and Pentagon Renovation Program staff.

    The BPS team concluded that the impact of the aircraft destroyed or significantly impaired approximately 50 structural columns. The ensuing fire weakened a number of other structural elements. However, only a very small segment of the affected structure collapsed, approximately 20 minutes after impact. The collapse, fatalities, and damage were mitigated by the Pentagon's resilient structural system. Very few upgraded windows installed during the renovation broke during the impact and deflagration of aircraft fuel. The BPS team recommends that the features of the Pentagon's design that contributed to its resiliency in the crash—that is, continuity, redundancy, and energy-absorbing capacity—be incorporated in the future into the designs of buildings and other structures in which resistance to progressive collapse is deemed important. The team further advocates that additional research and development be conducted in the practical implementation of measures to mitigate progressive collapse and in the deformation capacity of spirally reinforced columns subjected to lateral loads applied over the height of the column.

     
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    coldsnap55
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    Posts: 9818
    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:30 AM ET #323

    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:



    yes it has everything to do with that, if you don't belive the expert opinion on the events at the Pentagon, then thousands of people have to keep their mouths shut. 
    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities
    AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

    So your answer to my questions of.....

    Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon ........and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?

     

    is...........

    " to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. "

     

     

     

    Great answer.                  

     

     

    I give up asking that......again. 

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMA:



    yes it has everything to do with that, if you don't belive the expert opinion on the events at the Pentagon, then thousands of people have to keep their mouths shut. 
    Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities
    AFIP identified all but one of the passengers of Flight 77.

    So your answer to my questions of.....

    Why will they not show a film or still shot of  a PLANE hitting the Pentagon ........and do you realy think that a guy who could barely fly a 2 seater could maneuver a huge plane that size a couple of feet off the ground when pilots with 30 or more years experience say it is physicaly impossible?

     

    is...........

    " to have a conspiracy on this scale would involve thousands keeping their mouths shut. "

     

     

     

    Great answer.                  

     

     

    I give up asking that......again. 

     

     
    coldsnap55
    coldsnap55
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 7:54 AM ET #324

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

    HutchEmAll – If I did reveal the source would you listen anyway?

    You have to let patriotism go and let go of the idea that the US government is righteous. You have to let go of the idea that the US government is not capable of committing mass genocide. You have to let go of everything the media tells you. You have to let go of all of the things that you were taught to believe in school.

    I don’t believe you would listen to whatever I post because in order for you to see or understand it, you have to let go of everything you were taught to believe in. Unless you are willing to see the truth, there is no amount of evidence I can show you to change your mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

    HutchEmAll – If I did reveal the source would you listen anyway?

    You have to let patriotism go and let go of the idea that the US government is righteous. You have to let go of the idea that the US government is not capable of committing mass genocide. You have to let go of everything the media tells you. You have to let go of all of the things that you were taught to believe in school.

    I don’t believe you would listen to whatever I post because in order for you to see or understand it, you have to let go of everything you were taught to believe in. Unless you are willing to see the truth, there is no amount of evidence I can show you to change your mind.

     
     
    BMA
    BMA
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    Posted: Apr. 7, 2012 - 8:07 AM ET #325

    The Pentagon

    At 9:37 am on 9/11, 51 minutes after the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the Pentagon was similarly attacked. Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.


    Claim: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

    FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

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    The Pentagon

    At 9:37 am on 9/11, 51 minutes after the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the Pentagon was similarly attacked. Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.


    Claim: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

    FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

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