9/11 conspiracy theories

Say that you apologize for the fact that you could track down OBL and kill him, yet despite been in control of government , with all those state secrets I was privy to, I could not find any evidence of conspiracy until I saw those You Tube Videos

You're right.  How silly of me to watch something on Youtube and assume for a second that it could be true.  Because we all know that Youtube is a site that is full of nothing but videos made up of lies 

 

I never stated "how long buildings take to collapse".  So please don't misquote me again.

Also, I have listened to many experts.  And many of them simply don't believe that those planes were able to bring down those buildings in that fashion.  These are engineers I've listened to.  Architects of buildings like these.  Chemists, doctors... you name it.  There are thousands that simply don't believe those buildings should have fallen like that.

SteelCash: No offense, but WHEN I SEE PICTURES OF PERFECT DIAGONAL CUTS TO STEEL COLUMNS, it makes me scratch my head.  Mmmm.  Oh wait a minute.  This couldn't have happened because the NIST said that the amount needed probably couldn't be brought in undetected.  Okay.  Sure.
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NIST   members

Valentine Junker

Mr. Junker acted as the WTC Investigation team's liaison in New York charged with helping with the identification of relevant visual material, interfacing with copyright holders, receiving and forwarding to NIST photographs and videos to be used for investigative purposes, and obtaining necessary copyright releases.  Mr. Junker was uniquely qualified for this position based on more than 15 years in the information technology field, with emphasis on digital workflow and image capture, storage, and reproduction technologies and extensive experience in the collection of visual material related to the World Trade Center disaster.   As a volunteer, he worked extensively with the Here Is New York exhibition that chronicled the events of September 11th in a number of shows worldwide.  His responsibilities included developing approaches for acquiring photos and videos, developing procedures for handling material, and specifying and setting up the computer systems used to digitize and archive various forms of photos and video.  Through his efforts with Here Is New York, Mr. Junker became associated with the SEAoNY and FEMA World Trade Center Building Performance Study (BPS).  Initially, he acted as the liaison between the Here Is New York exhibition and the BPS team, but ultimately his duties grew until he was the primary person responsible for the BPAT team's efforts to secure photo and videographic imagery and for establishing a database of images.  He was instrumental in obtaining the necessary copyright releases for images published in the BPS team's final report.

Vincent Dunn
Retired FDNY, Consultant, Educator, and Fire Service Writer, Building Construction and Fire Department Operations
 
Mr. Dunn has more than 40 years experience with the New York City Fire Department (FDNY) as a firefighter and fire officer in midtown New York City working with fire fighting operations and rescue of building occupants.  His work included daily activities associated with the protection of occupants and safe fire service operations in high rise buildings.  Mr. Dunn's fire service career includes responsibilities as a Battalion Chief, and Deputy Chief where he managed operations and personnel in Division 7 and Division 3 of FDNY.  He has been involved with the firefighter training, fire safety directors, and New York City building codes.  Mr. Dunn is a nationally recognized authority on fire fighting operations in tall buildings, the safety of firefighters related to structural fire fighting, and the collapse of structures.  He is a member of NFPA and several other professional organizations.  Mr. Dunn is a contributing editor for Firehouse Magazine, and holds a Masters Degree from Queens College, City University of New York.

John J. Hodgens
Retired FDNY, Consultant, Fire Science and Fire Department Operations
 
Mr. Hodgens has more than 30 years experience as a career firefighter and officer in lower and midtown Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Staten Island in New York City.  Mr. Hodgens was the FDNY Technology Manager and Chief of Fire Prevention and worked with World Trade Center fire fighting technology, fire prevention processes, fire safety directors, and operations.  As a Citywide Tour Commander, Mr. Hodgens has extensive command level working knowledge of the New York City Fire Department.  He was also a member of the New York City, World Trade Center Code Revision Committee following the terrorist attack on the Trade Center, in 1993.  He has also worked closely with NFPA, Life Safety Codes.  He has written journal articles on "Fire Command" and "Safe Use of Elevators During Fires."  Mr. Hodgens is a graduate of New York City Community College of the City University of New York in Brooklyn, and John Jay College in Manhattan, New York City.
 
Kevin S. Malley
Retired FDNY, Fire Science Program Coordinator, Assistant Professor of Fire Science, New Jersey City University
 
Mr. Malley has more than 20 years experience as a career firefighter and fire officer in Manhattan, Harlem, and South Bronx.  He has worked closely with the FDNY firefighter training program and was the Director of Human Performance for FDNY.  He has extensive experience and knowledge related to the physical performance of firefighters, health and safety of firefighters, and the capabilities of firefighters and their equipment when operating in life saving and fire fighting environments.  He worked with the NFPA Committee on Structural Fire Fighting Protective Clothing and Equipment and the NFPA Committee on Special Operations Protective Clothing and Equipment.  Mr. Malley has also worked with the training of high-rise building Fire Safety Directors.  He was a Guest Researcher for FDNY at NIST, in 1998.  He has written numerous publications for the fire service concerning firefighter health and safety.  Mr. Malley is a graduate of Columbia University and holds a Masters Degree from Queens College.  He is currently an Assistant Professor of Fire Science at New Jersey City University.

and others, full profile available on the NIST Web Site



Dr. S. Shyam Sunder  Lead Technical Investigator

 Dr. William L. Grosshandler    
Investigation of Active Fire Protection Systems

Dr. Hai S. Lew    
Analysis of Building and Fire Codes and Practices

Richard Bukowski  Analysis of Building and Fire Codes and Practices

Dr. Fahim H. Sadek  Structural Engineer
Materials and Construction Research

Frank W. Gayle   Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel
Baseline Structural Performance and Aircraft Impact Damage Prediction

Dr. Richard G. Gann 
Reconstruction of Thermal and Tenability Environment

Dr. John L. Gross Structural Fire Response and Collapse

Dr. Therese P. McAllister  Structural Fire Response and Collapse

Jason D. Averill  Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communications

Randy Lawson  Fire Service Technologies and Guidelines


Harold E. Nelson  Fire Protection Engineering Expert


Stephen A. Cauffman  Materials and Construction Research

SteelCash  V NIST




SteelCash 

What is your fascination with NIST anyways?  Oh I forgot.  The gov't couldn't have put bombs in the towers without everybody in NIST knowing about it.

I said it before and I'll say it again.  I'm not sure what all happened that day, but I do know that we don't know everything.  There are things we don't know and it's because the gov't doesn't want us to know.

Why are there videos of fake Osama's and who were these made by.
Why are there videos of Osama with distorted audio and interpretations? Thanks BMA

I'll wait for the state-sanctioned response.

Good stuff BMA.  I'll hand it to you.  You can copy and paste pretty quickly.

Agree to disagree  

Nobody will ever convince me that the gov't is clean in all this. Good night bro... no hard feelings

Really gotta crash.  It's fucking late!  Didn't notice the time!

The structural engineering community rejects the controlled-demolition conspiracy theory. Its consensus is that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was a fire-induced, gravity-driven collapse, an explanation that does not involve the use of explosives.


 If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?



JONES  

Thomas Eagar, a professor of materials science and engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology,

 also dismissed the controlled-demolition conspiracy theory. Eagar remarked,

 "These people (in the 9/11 truth movement) use the 'reverse scientific method.' They determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion.

NIST REPORT

World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein said,

 "Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day."

The structural engineering community rejects the controlled-demolition conspiracy theory. Its consensus is that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was a fire-induced, gravity-driven collapse, an explanation that does not involve the use of explosives.

No... it doesn't.  Where do you come up with this stuff?  No steel building has EVER collapsed due to fire.  It's never happened.

Gravity-driven

That's a good one.  Wow!  Thanks for that!

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NIST REPORT

World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein said,

 "Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day."





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 "Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day."

I'm sure investigation dishonors the fallen in the eyes of Larry Silverstein.

Guy has lease on building full of asbestos that would have to be leveled because clean up would be to expensive.

Oh how convenient he doubly cashed those insurance policies.

HutchEmAll	View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
Legend Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 32249 Location: Minnesota	#25 Posted: 4/2/2012 1:39:32 PM Oh, and re. that youtube clip.  You know why that guy was smirking? Because someone mentioned Steven Jones.  That guy is a hack and he was placed on leave because no one else at BYU bought his bullshit.   On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave.[21] The university cited its concern about the "increasingly speculative and accusatory nature" of Jones' work and the concern that perhaps it had "not been published in appropriate scientific venues" as reasons for putting him under review. The review was to have been conducted at three levels: BYU administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, and the Physics Department.[22] Jones' colleagues also defended Jones' 9/11 work to varying degrees,[23] and Project Censored lists his 9/11 research among the top mainstream media censored stories of 2007.[24]

You an expert on

Structural Performance and Aircraft Impact Damage Prediction

Structural Fire Response and Collapse

Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel

Civil Engineering

Mechanical Engineering

Structural Engineering,

Metallurgy

Mechanical Engineering & Materials Science

Physical Chemistry

Physics,

Then don't make such declarations. Leave it to the panel of experts that do. Don't try and tell us how long buildings take to collapse when really you have no idea.

Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone?

The collapse of WTC 7 is the first known instance of a tall building brought down primarily by uncontrolled fires. The fires in WTC 7 were similar to those that have occurred in several tall buildings where the automatic sprinklers did not function or were not present. These other buildings, including Philadelphia's One Meridian Plaza, a 38-story skyscraper that burned for 18 hours in 1991, did not collapse due to differences in the design of the structural system (see the answer to Question 9).

Factors contributing to WTC 7's collapse included: the thermal expansion of building elements such as floor beams and girders, which occurred at temperatures hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire-resistance ratings; significant magnification of thermal expansion effects due to the long-span floors in the building; connections between structural elements that were designed to resist the vertical forces of gravity, not the thermally induced horizontal or lateral loads; and an overall structural system not designed to prevent fire-induced progressive collapse.

What are the major differences between "typical" major high-rise building fires that have occurred in the United States and the fire in the WTC 7 building on Sept. 11, 2001?

There are more similarities than differences between the uncontrolled fires that burned in WTC 7 and those that occurred in the following buildings: First Interstate Bank Building (1988), One Meridian Plaza Building (1991), One New York Plaza (1970), and WTC 5¹ (2001).

NIST NCSTAR Report 1-9, Section 8.5, provides details about these building fires.

The following factors describe the fire events that occurred in both WTC 7 and the referenced buildings:

• The fuel for the fires was ordinary office combustibles at ordinary combustible load levels.
• There was no use of accelerants.
• The spread of fire from combustible to combustible was governed by ordinary fire physics.
• Fire-induced window breakage provided ventilation for continued fire spread and growth.
• There were simultaneous fires on multiple floors.
• The fires on each floor occupied a substantial portion of the floor.
• The fires on each floor had passed the point of flashover and the structure was subjected to typical post-flashover temperatures.
• The sprinklers were inoperative or ineffective; and 9) the fires burned for sufficient time to cause significant distortion and/or failure to the building structure.

There were some differences between the fires in WTC 7 and those in the referenced buildings, but these differences were secondary to the fire factors that led to the collapse of WTC 7:

• Fires in high-rise buildings typically have a single point of origin on a single floor, whereas the fires in WTC 7 likely had a single point of origin on multiple (10) floors.
• Fires in other high-rise buildings were due to isolated events, whereas the fires in WTC 7 followed the collapse of WTC 1.
• Water was available to fight fires in the other high rise buildings, but the water supply to fight fires in WTC 7 was impaired.
• While the fires in the other buildings were actively fought by firefighters to the extent possible, in WTC 7, no efforts were made to fight the fires because of the lack of a water supply.

The differences in the fires were not meaningful for the following reasons. By the time WTC 7 collapsed, the fires in WTC 7 had advanced well beyond the likely points of origin on multiple floors (i.e., south and west faces), and points of fire origin had no bearing on the fire conditions when the building collapsed (i.e., in the northeast quadrant). Additionally, in each of the other referenced buildings, the fires burned out several floors, even with available water and firefighting activities (except for WTC 5). Thus, whether the fire fighters fought the WTC 7 fires or not is not a meaningful point of dissimilarity from the other cited fires.

more conspirators, more people whose mouths have to be kept shut, more liars.

What has happened to leaks and whistle-blowers


Thousands can keep their mouths shut, it is a miracle.

Nixon could have done with such loyalists (no Watergate)
Reagan ( No Irangate)
Clinton (No Impeachment)

Hundreds of Political Scandals if not thousands, because people could not keep their mouths shut

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All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.

https://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

https://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026

Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

CONT..........

-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.

CONT........................

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?

-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of  Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...

What happens to steel under intense heat?