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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Power Rating System ($1000 to $100,000 in 36 months)

    «First Previous 303132 ... 596061 Next Last»
    TheThinker
    pokerfacedjoker
    lvporta
    scotth69
    oilcountry99
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    «First Previous 303132 ... 596061 Next Last»
     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 4:23 PM ET #726

    i think we can just about put a nail in these NFL dogs and thats ok..

    13-20 followed by 2-5 and so far today 0-3

    so 15-28 with 3 late ones pending...

    hopefully things are starting to clear a little.... football, both college and pro are very different than everyday baseball, hockey and even the nba...

    Thinker

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    i think we can just about put a nail in these NFL dogs and thats ok..

    13-20 followed by 2-5 and so far today 0-3

    so 15-28 with 3 late ones pending...

    hopefully things are starting to clear a little.... football, both college and pro are very different than everyday baseball, hockey and even the nba...

    Thinker

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 4:28 PM ET #727

    quick little afternoon recap

    Power Ratings Program: 138-144 (+$825)

    pending

    283. stl (+1.15) $35 to win $40

    284. nash (+1.20) $35 to win $42

     

    TOP plays: 26-27 (-$90)

    pending

    philly Under 46.5

    oak Under 40.5

     

     

    monitored nba

    dogs: 14-17 (+7.15 units)

    pending

    bos (+1.05)

    detroit (+1.00)

     

    totals: 8-7 (+0.30 units)

    pending

    gst/det Over 209

     

     

    looks like that is what we are dealing with, without breaking things down further..

     

    Thinker

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    quick little afternoon recap

    Power Ratings Program: 138-144 (+$825)

    pending

    283. stl (+1.15) $35 to win $40

    284. nash (+1.20) $35 to win $42

     

    TOP plays: 26-27 (-$90)

    pending

    philly Under 46.5

    oak Under 40.5

     

     

    monitored nba

    dogs: 14-17 (+7.15 units)

    pending

    bos (+1.05)

    detroit (+1.00)

     

    totals: 8-7 (+0.30 units)

    pending

    gst/det Over 209

     

     

    looks like that is what we are dealing with, without breaking things down further..

     

    Thinker

     
    pokerfacedjoker
    pokerfacedjoker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 6:10 PM ET #728

    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    quick little afternoon recap

    Power Ratings Program: 138-144 (+$825)

    pending

    283. stl (+1.15) $35 to win $40

    284. nash (+1.20) $35 to win $42

     

    TOP plays: 26-27 (-$90)

    pending

    philly Under 46.5

    oak Under 40.5

     

     

    monitored nba

    dogs: 14-17 (+7.15 units)

    pending

    bos (+1.05)

    detroit (+1.00)

     

    totals: 8-7 (+0.30 units)

    pending

    gst/det Over 209

     

     

    looks like that is what we are dealing with, without breaking things down further..

     

    Thinker


    hey thinker does edmonton show up on the ml dog system
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    quick little afternoon recap

    Power Ratings Program: 138-144 (+$825)

    pending

    283. stl (+1.15) $35 to win $40

    284. nash (+1.20) $35 to win $42

     

    TOP plays: 26-27 (-$90)

    pending

    philly Under 46.5

    oak Under 40.5

     

     

    monitored nba

    dogs: 14-17 (+7.15 units)

    pending

    bos (+1.05)

    detroit (+1.00)

     

    totals: 8-7 (+0.30 units)

    pending

    gst/det Over 209

     

     

    looks like that is what we are dealing with, without breaking things down further..

     

    Thinker


    hey thinker does edmonton show up on the ml dog system
     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 6:52 PM ET #729

    not today...

    Thinker

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    not today...

    Thinker

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 6:58 PM ET #730

    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

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    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

     
    lvporta
    lvporta
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 7:55 PM ET #731

    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    alright guys, for those following the nba ML dogs, we just nailed a (+3.00) one with philly... since the bad (2-8) start, the Program has been on a 12-9 run to go to (14-17) (+7.15 units)...

    any opinions?

    Thinker



    NBA dogs have sure been better than NFL dogs.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    alright guys, for those following the nba ML dogs, we just nailed a (+3.00) one with philly... since the bad (2-8) start, the Program has been on a 12-9 run to go to (14-17) (+7.15 units)...

    any opinions?

    Thinker



    NBA dogs have sure been better than NFL dogs.....
     
    scotth69
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 7:58 PM ET #732

    Need to relook at the totals. They have been killing us the last 3 days wiping out any NHL profits and then some....

    Friday NBA       1-4 (the win was by a 1/2 pt)

    Saturday NBA   2-2 (one win we needed a really good OT to cover the over)

    Sunday NFL      1-4 (at least 2 of these were painful losses)

    Sunday NBA 1 game pending

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    Need to relook at the totals. They have been killing us the last 3 days wiping out any NHL profits and then some....

    Friday NBA       1-4 (the win was by a 1/2 pt)

    Saturday NBA   2-2 (one win we needed a really good OT to cover the over)

    Sunday NFL      1-4 (at least 2 of these were painful losses)

    Sunday NBA 1 game pending

     
    lvporta
    lvporta
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 8:02 PM ET #733

    Quote Originally Posted by scotth69:

    Need to relook at the totals. They have been killing us the last 3 days wiping out any NHL profits and then some....

    Friday NBA       1-4 (the win was by a 1/2 pt)

    Saturday NBA   2-2 (one win we needed a really good OT to cover the over)

    Sunday NFL      1-4 (at least 2 of these were painful losses)

    Sunday NBA 1 game pending



    Agreed, I am done with totals, both NFL and NBA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotth69:

    Need to relook at the totals. They have been killing us the last 3 days wiping out any NHL profits and then some....

    Friday NBA       1-4 (the win was by a 1/2 pt)

    Saturday NBA   2-2 (one win we needed a really good OT to cover the over)

    Sunday NFL      1-4 (at least 2 of these were painful losses)

    Sunday NBA 1 game pending



    Agreed, I am done with totals, both NFL and NBA.
     
    oilcountry99
    oilcountry99
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 8:43 PM ET #734

    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

     

    Couldn't agree more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

     

    Couldn't agree more.

     
    oilcountry99
    oilcountry99
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 8:44 PM ET #735

    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

    Couldn't agree more!

    Thanks for all you do here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThinker:

    spent some time today, thinking about how scattered my thread has become...

    tomorrow im going to simplify alot of things... i dont like chaos and spreading myself out, all over the place.... time for me to make things really simple, espcially since ive got about 10 days left before i go on a vacation...

    sometimes "less is more" and thats where im headed...

     

    Thinker

    Couldn't agree more!

    Thanks for all you do here.

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 8:44 PM ET #736

    totals have been bad, looks like 8-8 for the nba and 1-4 for the nfl...

    if boston holds on the nba dogs move to 16-17 (+9.20 units) and this is recovering from a 2-8 (-4.10 unit) start...

    ill make this real simple for everyone and tell you what im going to do..

    play the mlb, nhl ml dogs,,,,, im going to play the nba dogs as well but for a lesser amount...  im dropping the totals altogether, as i was twisting the program anyway... ill be making 1 TOP play at a time... everyone must ultimately decide for themselves anyway... i think the proof is there for baseball and hockey and its getting there for the nba.. we shall see...

    Thinker

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    totals have been bad, looks like 8-8 for the nba and 1-4 for the nfl...

    if boston holds on the nba dogs move to 16-17 (+9.20 units) and this is recovering from a 2-8 (-4.10 unit) start...

    ill make this real simple for everyone and tell you what im going to do..

    play the mlb, nhl ml dogs,,,,, im going to play the nba dogs as well but for a lesser amount...  im dropping the totals altogether, as i was twisting the program anyway... ill be making 1 TOP play at a time... everyone must ultimately decide for themselves anyway... i think the proof is there for baseball and hockey and its getting there for the nba.. we shall see...

    Thinker

     
    Gator11
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 9:02 PM ET #737

     BOL,Thinker!

    Appreciate all your time and effort in making a successful program.

    I think as the NBA season matures and you have more data to go bye....the ML wins will pick up.

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     BOL,Thinker!

    Appreciate all your time and effort in making a successful program.

    I think as the NBA season matures and you have more data to go bye....the ML wins will pick up.

     
    blaaze
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 9:12 PM ET #738

    Thinker I wouldn't completely give up on the NBA yet but I would not be wagering real monies yet either.. to early in the season the odds makers don't even have a grip on the pecking order yet as the season progress's the odds will tighten and what you have may work.. don't loose sight this is a 36 month project and if we don't have that 3rd system till next year NBA so be it. I know others who have NCAA and NBA systems who won't even consider wagering until 20 games are played for each team in the NBA or conference play starts for the NCAA.. remember this is a Marathon not a sprint.

    Thanks for all that you do it is much appreciated I know my bank has been growing.
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    Thinker I wouldn't completely give up on the NBA yet but I would not be wagering real monies yet either.. to early in the season the odds makers don't even have a grip on the pecking order yet as the season progress's the odds will tighten and what you have may work.. don't loose sight this is a 36 month project and if we don't have that 3rd system till next year NBA so be it. I know others who have NCAA and NBA systems who won't even consider wagering until 20 games are played for each team in the NBA or conference play starts for the NCAA.. remember this is a Marathon not a sprint.

    Thanks for all that you do it is much appreciated I know my bank has been growing.
     
    aerojackel
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 10:04 PM ET #739

    Thinker - thanks for what you are doing here - posting picks and giving some advice.

    As for the NBA - I'd give it some more time before going more/less - teams are still getting their flow going.  I agree with blaaze - it is usually wise to get  a few games/stats going in basketball to be able to have some chance of prediciting outcomes - ML or ATS.

    Thanks again and GL

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    Thinker - thanks for what you are doing here - posting picks and giving some advice.

    As for the NBA - I'd give it some more time before going more/less - teams are still getting their flow going.  I agree with blaaze - it is usually wise to get  a few games/stats going in basketball to be able to have some chance of prediciting outcomes - ML or ATS.

    Thanks again and GL

     
    like2betmore
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    Posted: Nov. 7, 2010 - 11:47 PM ET #740

    Seems like the nba dogs so far the best for the third weapon but will have to see how this month ends as you have said.
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    Seems like the nba dogs so far the best for the third weapon but will have to see how this month ends as you have said.
     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 7:31 AM ET #741

    TIME IS MONEY !!!

    Wait until at least December 1st to decide on the third weapon

    Totals sucked this week, but who knows?  You can't take an accurate sample from only 10 games.  Same with NBA dogs.  Just be patient!  It's a marathon, remember.

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    TIME IS MONEY !!!

    Wait until at least December 1st to decide on the third weapon

    Totals sucked this week, but who knows?  You can't take an accurate sample from only 10 games.  Same with NBA dogs.  Just be patient!  It's a marathon, remember.

     
    metslider
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 8:10 AM ET #742

    NBA ML (just tracking not being played int he system)

    Philly (+3.00)

    Boston (+1.05)

    Detroit (+1.00)


    YTD 16-17 (+9.20 units)

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    NBA ML (just tracking not being played int he system)

    Philly (+3.00)

    Boston (+1.05)

    Detroit (+1.00)


    YTD 16-17 (+9.20 units)

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 8:46 AM ET #743

    thanks guys for all the comments (really) but unfortunately this is not a democracy, i must decide what to do with the project and my bankroll, as you have to do with your money... im just a regular guy that has developed a computer program that can make alot of money (i think) selecting ML underdogs...

    this post is going to clear everything up for me and it should for you as well..

     

    Lets not lose sight of the theme of this thread.... Can i turn $1000 into $100,000 in 36 months by making a return of 15% per month on my bankroll... Currently i am running almost exactly 2 months ahead...

    Now i need things simple in my life and here is how this thread will work..

    I will be playing for the Project:

    MLB: 75-75 record... boys this was during the worse time of the season to play this and we still went for 50% on the dogs.. to tell you i cant wait until march 28th would be an understatement. it will do as good as hockey.

    NHL: 47-38.... thats over 55% on ML dogs... quite frankly doesnt get any better... enjoy the profits..

    NBA: (2-8) and now (16-17)..... i am going to now include the nba as part of MY program, you do not have to include it... This is an investment in MY business. I am running 2 months ahead of schedule, i can afford the investment... But i will be playing it for a lesser amount... Today i will be risking $15 per play for the Project... I am currently  down (-$41) with the nba as it pertains to the project.. if i fall (-$300) down, i will stop betting the NBA... this is a gamble that im willing to take... I BELIEVE in my work and my Program.. but as long as the overall picture looks good, im willing to take this risk..

     

    Everything else that ive done will fall under the category of TOP plays.. I will take the best of all this and play (1 Play) at a time. Please understand this: the TOP play will come from the Program in one form or another and will be wagered out of my Overall Bankroll, which is over 10K for me... The amount wagered will be (2.5%) please note this.... dont ask me, why am i making this a larger wager than the dogs... please understand its 2 different things altogether... I will not make a TOP play today, i will be taking from (1-3) days off here.. I want to really get back in focus on these.. I think they will do well.... No advice but i will make money on them..

    Hope this clears things up, it did for me.... I have about 11 days and then ill be going on an 11 day vacation. the thread will run while im away as normal.. Metslider or myself will be posting the thread daily..

     

    good luck and make your own decision about what you play and for how much... ill post exactly what im doing and then you decide.

    update when all the lines for monday come out...

     

    Thinker

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    thanks guys for all the comments (really) but unfortunately this is not a democracy, i must decide what to do with the project and my bankroll, as you have to do with your money... im just a regular guy that has developed a computer program that can make alot of money (i think) selecting ML underdogs...

    this post is going to clear everything up for me and it should for you as well..

     

    Lets not lose sight of the theme of this thread.... Can i turn $1000 into $100,000 in 36 months by making a return of 15% per month on my bankroll... Currently i am running almost exactly 2 months ahead...

    Now i need things simple in my life and here is how this thread will work..

    I will be playing for the Project:

    MLB: 75-75 record... boys this was during the worse time of the season to play this and we still went for 50% on the dogs.. to tell you i cant wait until march 28th would be an understatement. it will do as good as hockey.

    NHL: 47-38.... thats over 55% on ML dogs... quite frankly doesnt get any better... enjoy the profits..

    NBA: (2-8) and now (16-17)..... i am going to now include the nba as part of MY program, you do not have to include it... This is an investment in MY business. I am running 2 months ahead of schedule, i can afford the investment... But i will be playing it for a lesser amount... Today i will be risking $15 per play for the Project... I am currently  down (-$41) with the nba as it pertains to the project.. if i fall (-$300) down, i will stop betting the NBA... this is a gamble that im willing to take... I BELIEVE in my work and my Program.. but as long as the overall picture looks good, im willing to take this risk..

     

    Everything else that ive done will fall under the category of TOP plays.. I will take the best of all this and play (1 Play) at a time. Please understand this: the TOP play will come from the Program in one form or another and will be wagered out of my Overall Bankroll, which is over 10K for me... The amount wagered will be (2.5%) please note this.... dont ask me, why am i making this a larger wager than the dogs... please understand its 2 different things altogether... I will not make a TOP play today, i will be taking from (1-3) days off here.. I want to really get back in focus on these.. I think they will do well.... No advice but i will make money on them..

    Hope this clears things up, it did for me.... I have about 11 days and then ill be going on an 11 day vacation. the thread will run while im away as normal.. Metslider or myself will be posting the thread daily..

     

    good luck and make your own decision about what you play and for how much... ill post exactly what im doing and then you decide.

    update when all the lines for monday come out...

     

    Thinker

     
    smdio
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 9:29 AM ET #744

    Fair enough
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    Fair enough
     
    the-profit
    the-profit
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 10:11 AM ET #745

    Keep it going
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    Keep it going
     
    like2betmore
    like2betmore
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 11:27 AM ET #746

    Awesome stuff.  Im so looking forward to what were going to be at a year from now.
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    Awesome stuff.  Im so looking forward to what were going to be at a year from now.
     
    smdio
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 11:48 AM ET #747

    Quote Originally Posted by like2betmore:

    Awesome stuff.  Im so looking forward to what were going to be at a year from now.

    +$20k by the looks of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by like2betmore:

    Awesome stuff.  Im so looking forward to what were going to be at a year from now.

    +$20k by the looks of it

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posts: 1245
    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 11:50 AM ET #748

    update for monday nov 8

    Beginning Balance on sept 5 2010: $1000

    Current Balance on nov 8 2010: $1830

     

    Power Ratings Program: 139-145 (+$830)

     

    breakdown:

    mlb: 75-75 (+$437)

    nhl: 47-38 (+$548)

    nba: 2-8 (-$41)

    FB: 15-24 (-$114)

     

    here is Power Ratings card for monday nov 8

    285. charolette (+1.55) $15 to win $23

    286. phx (+1.70) $15 to win $26

    287. denver (+1.30) $15 to win $20

    288. boston (+1.35) $15 to win $20

     

    those are the only plays tonight for the Power Ratings Program, if your not playing the nba, you have the day off.. for some reason the NHL decided to take the night off, no play on phx/det game.

     

    TOP plays: 26-29 (-$310)

     

    no TOP plays for tonight...  explanation in above post...

     

    good luck guys..

     

    Thinker

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    update for monday nov 8

    Beginning Balance on sept 5 2010: $1000

    Current Balance on nov 8 2010: $1830

     

    Power Ratings Program: 139-145 (+$830)

     

    breakdown:

    mlb: 75-75 (+$437)

    nhl: 47-38 (+$548)

    nba: 2-8 (-$41)

    FB: 15-24 (-$114)

     

    here is Power Ratings card for monday nov 8

    285. charolette (+1.55) $15 to win $23

    286. phx (+1.70) $15 to win $26

    287. denver (+1.30) $15 to win $20

    288. boston (+1.35) $15 to win $20

     

    those are the only plays tonight for the Power Ratings Program, if your not playing the nba, you have the day off.. for some reason the NHL decided to take the night off, no play on phx/det game.

     

    TOP plays: 26-29 (-$310)

     

    no TOP plays for tonight...  explanation in above post...

     

    good luck guys..

     

    Thinker

     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 12:18 PM ET #749

    here is a quick guide to how the goals breakdown:

    start sept 5 2010: $1000

    1. oct 1 2010: $1150 (check)

    2. nov 1 2010: $1323 (check)

    3. dec 1 2010: $1522

    4. jan 1 2011: $1750

    5. feb 1 2011: $2013 (money doubles 1st time)

    6. mar 1 2011: $2315

    7. april 1 2011: $2663

    8. may 1 2011: $3063

    9. june 1 2011: $3523

    10. july 1 2011: $4052 (money doubles 2nd time)

    11. aug 1 2011: $4660

    12. sept 1 2011: $5360

    13. oct 1 2011: $6164

    14. nov 1 2011: $7089 ( a year from now, sorry)

    15. dec 1 2011: $8153 (money doubles 3rd time)

    16. jan 1 2012: $9376

    17. feb 1 2012: $10,783

    18. mar 1 2012: $12,480

    19. april 1 2012: $14,260

    20. may 1 2012: $16,399 (money doubles 4th time)

    21. june 1 2012: $18,859

    22. july 1 2012: $21,688

    23. aug 1 2012: $24,942

    24. sept 1 2012: $28,684

    25. oct 1 2012: $32,986 (money doubles 5th time)

    26. nov 1 2012: $37,933

    27. dec 1 2012: $43,622

    28. jan 1 2013: $51,165 (if world doesnt end on 12/21/12)

    29. feb 1 2013: $57,689

    30. mar 1 2013: $66,342 (money doubles 6th time)

    31. april 1 2013: $76,293

    32. may 1 2013: $87,736

    33. june 1 2013: $100,896

     

    so you see it would end and this project would be over, sometime just before june 1 2013.....  so 33 months roughly and not 36..

    at that time, i will quietly move to vegas or develop some other business to work the Program.. if i can accomplish this, it should mean a blank check for the Program.

     

    there it is:

     

    Thinker

     

     

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    here is a quick guide to how the goals breakdown:

    start sept 5 2010: $1000

    1. oct 1 2010: $1150 (check)

    2. nov 1 2010: $1323 (check)

    3. dec 1 2010: $1522

    4. jan 1 2011: $1750

    5. feb 1 2011: $2013 (money doubles 1st time)

    6. mar 1 2011: $2315

    7. april 1 2011: $2663

    8. may 1 2011: $3063

    9. june 1 2011: $3523

    10. july 1 2011: $4052 (money doubles 2nd time)

    11. aug 1 2011: $4660

    12. sept 1 2011: $5360

    13. oct 1 2011: $6164

    14. nov 1 2011: $7089 ( a year from now, sorry)

    15. dec 1 2011: $8153 (money doubles 3rd time)

    16. jan 1 2012: $9376

    17. feb 1 2012: $10,783

    18. mar 1 2012: $12,480

    19. april 1 2012: $14,260

    20. may 1 2012: $16,399 (money doubles 4th time)

    21. june 1 2012: $18,859

    22. july 1 2012: $21,688

    23. aug 1 2012: $24,942

    24. sept 1 2012: $28,684

    25. oct 1 2012: $32,986 (money doubles 5th time)

    26. nov 1 2012: $37,933

    27. dec 1 2012: $43,622

    28. jan 1 2013: $51,165 (if world doesnt end on 12/21/12)

    29. feb 1 2013: $57,689

    30. mar 1 2013: $66,342 (money doubles 6th time)

    31. april 1 2013: $76,293

    32. may 1 2013: $87,736

    33. june 1 2013: $100,896

     

    so you see it would end and this project would be over, sometime just before june 1 2013.....  so 33 months roughly and not 36..

    at that time, i will quietly move to vegas or develop some other business to work the Program.. if i can accomplish this, it should mean a blank check for the Program.

     

    there it is:

     

    Thinker

     

     

     
     
    the-profit
    the-profit
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    Posted: Nov. 8, 2010 - 1:07 PM ET #750

    Man Without Dreams is like Bird Without Wings

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    Man Without Dreams is like Bird Without Wings

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