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    All Forums | Politics

    Trump Tariffs and job losses

    «First Previous 123
    ilsp2003
    Rush51
    wallstreetcappers
    BWS77
    nature1970
    ...
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    Views: 2637
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    «First Previous 123
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posts: 4590
    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 5:11 AM ET #51

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Fantastic post..  Sarasota Slim posts about GDP growth, and you fail to address it.  Great job (insert sarcasm).

    The truth is that GDP has increased nicely under Trump, and yeah, I don't think anybody would call a "stable economy" at 1.9% growth a success..  The sooner you folks on the left realize that "real" GDP growth and real wage growth are the secrets to better standards of living .. the better.   Get on board with the facts you guys !   


    How about you get your facts straights before you  ask people to get on board 

    Let's not evolve into exaggerations, embellishment 

    US GDP Growth before Trump

    —5.1% Q2 2014 —4.9% Q3 2014 —4.7% Q4 2011 —4.5% Q4 2009


    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Fantastic post..  Sarasota Slim posts about GDP growth, and you fail to address it.  Great job (insert sarcasm).

    The truth is that GDP has increased nicely under Trump, and yeah, I don't think anybody would call a "stable economy" at 1.9% growth a success..  The sooner you folks on the left realize that "real" GDP growth and real wage growth are the secrets to better standards of living .. the better.   Get on board with the facts you guys !   


    How about you get your facts straights before you  ask people to get on board 

    Let's not evolve into exaggerations, embellishment 

    US GDP Growth before Trump

    —5.1% Q2 2014 —4.9% Q3 2014 —4.7% Q4 2011 —4.5% Q4 2009


    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posts: 4590
    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 5:38 AM ET #52

      Oh 4.5%  GDP growth  Q4 2009 was after the guy born in Kenya took over a massive f u c k up

    There were no embellishments, no exaggerations back in Q4 2009

    yeah the bailout was a necessary evil.

    1.2 trillion dollars in tax cut to the 1% who are using it to buy back their stocks. 
    Business tax cuts are PERMANENT 
    12 billions dollars to the farmers after starting a trade war 


    Republican strategy

    1) Create a mess

    2) Do everything possible to keep others from fixing their mess

    3) Blame others for the mes they created

    4) Propose the same policies (hmm tax cuts for the 1% , start wars while cutting taxes ...)  that created the mess in the first place 
    as the way to fix the mess they created. ( repeat again )

    Reply
      Oh 4.5%  GDP growth  Q4 2009 was after the guy born in Kenya took over a massive f u c k up

    There were no embellishments, no exaggerations back in Q4 2009

    yeah the bailout was a necessary evil.

    1.2 trillion dollars in tax cut to the 1% who are using it to buy back their stocks. 
    Business tax cuts are PERMANENT 
    12 billions dollars to the farmers after starting a trade war 


    Republican strategy

    1) Create a mess

    2) Do everything possible to keep others from fixing their mess

    3) Blame others for the mes they created

    4) Propose the same policies (hmm tax cuts for the 1% , start wars while cutting taxes ...)  that created the mess in the first place 
    as the way to fix the mess they created. ( repeat again )

     
    Rush51
    Rush51
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2005
    Posts: 8841
    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 3:58 PM ET #53

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    How about you get your facts straights before you  ask people to get on board 

    Let's not evolve into exaggerations, embellishment 

    US GDP Growth before Trump

    —5.1% Q2 2014 —4.9% Q3 2014 —4.7% Q4 2011 —4.5% Q4 2009


    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

    Way to cherry pick your data points.    What a fool you are...

    How about this one, since you guys AGAIN cannot understand the concept of AVERAGES .


    The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. has experienced since World War II. It's even below the rather sluggish rebound during President George W. Bush's tenure of 2.7%.




    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    How about you get your facts straights before you  ask people to get on board 

    Let's not evolve into exaggerations, embellishment 

    US GDP Growth before Trump

    —5.1% Q2 2014 —4.9% Q3 2014 —4.7% Q4 2011 —4.5% Q4 2009


    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

    Way to cherry pick your data points.    What a fool you are...

    How about this one, since you guys AGAIN cannot understand the concept of AVERAGES .


    The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. has experienced since World War II. It's even below the rather sluggish rebound during President George W. Bush's tenure of 2.7%.




     
    Rush51
    Rush51
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    Posts: 8841
    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 3:59 PM ET #54

    ^  BTW, this was posted from Oct. 2016, just before the election...
    Reply
    ^  BTW, this was posted from Oct. 2016, just before the election...
     
    Rush51
    Rush51
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2005
    Posts: 8841
    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 4:45 PM ET #55

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    How can I applaud Trump on GDP growth ?  Because I also understand the concept of AVERAGES...   Simple, let's look at the body of work thus far in 18 months !!    compared to O'bama's accomplishments (if you can call it that) over 8 years.  You can credit changes he has put in place in the economy for the performance.    Hard to argue w/ the facts, Wall !!

     

    Facts? I think you completely ignored what I said and just repeated the same tired throw-up as if it came from Trump himself.

    You want small government, what does that mean exactly? Are you going to go all "free market" on me and we can have a ten page laugh fest about that? Or are you going to go all "community/family take care of the poor and elderly" and we go over that boring erroneous concept?

    Government is large due to abuses and neglect to the common citizen...so you can do this government get out of the way farce that Trump is doing yet the real plunder from these choices are borne by the environment and citizens. If you want small government then you have to throw down on corps because they cause government in the first place...abuses of free market cause governments to take action AFTER the damage is done, far long after the abuses are done and shady profits are taken. Free markets are not interested in taking care of the lesser, your side wants to take FROM the lesser and reward the elite...the chasm of income inequality and wealth inequality shows what happens when you take from and abuse those without power to reward those with power.

    Last thing...you of course did not address the cost of this GDP print, how much should it cost to make a 4.1, how much for a 3.1 or a 5.1, how much in debt and future taxes/reduction in benefit for the lesser should it cost to print that 4.1 that you are applauding? A trillion, two trillion, ten trillion? How much in real cash, real debt, real benefit reduction should it cost so you can applaud a BK loser/cheater like Trump?

    What does small government mean..  Really ??   How about reducing the size of government so we don't spend so much.   That's what small government means..   I think I addressed that already in an earlier post.  BIG government entitlement programs are the cause (i.e. cost drivers) of today's debt problems.   That fact cannot be disputed. 


    And you say Government is large due to abuses and neglect to the common citizen.   WTF ??     This is such a scary comment I don't even know where to begin.  It almost begs the question, in your world,  was government created to protect of the individual from abuses. 

    I'm sorry, but I'm a believer that government is the problem, and not the answer (remember that one ?) , and believing in comments such as "ask what not your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."   H3LL, a democrat even said that one, go figure !   Tells you how lopsided our current democrats are in thinking big government is good..

    And for god's sake, since you are calling out at what cost Trump's tax plan is having on your national debt, do I really need to point out to you again the REAL drivers of our debt again.  C'mon Wall, you're  smarter than that..  But , I will point out this to you...

    You or anyone else don't  even know IF there  will be a negative impact to the economy in the form of a larger debt because of the tax plan .  DEMS always have a difficult time understanding the concept of growth, not fully realizing that growth leads to greater spending by consumers, greater paychecks for workers, and thus, greater tax receipts for the IRS.   Yes, a Surplus is possible.. Imagine that !!! 

    Try thinking of making the pie larger, instead of cutting the pie into different slices. A gain from one doesn't need to come at the expense of another, but DEMS (read O'bama)  love engaging in this class warfare that pits individuals against other individuals.  Not healthy, nor the truth..  I think I've covered enough ground here for you to ponder.. 



    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    How can I applaud Trump on GDP growth ?  Because I also understand the concept of AVERAGES...   Simple, let's look at the body of work thus far in 18 months !!    compared to O'bama's accomplishments (if you can call it that) over 8 years.  You can credit changes he has put in place in the economy for the performance.    Hard to argue w/ the facts, Wall !!

     

    Facts? I think you completely ignored what I said and just repeated the same tired throw-up as if it came from Trump himself.

    You want small government, what does that mean exactly? Are you going to go all "free market" on me and we can have a ten page laugh fest about that? Or are you going to go all "community/family take care of the poor and elderly" and we go over that boring erroneous concept?

    Government is large due to abuses and neglect to the common citizen...so you can do this government get out of the way farce that Trump is doing yet the real plunder from these choices are borne by the environment and citizens. If you want small government then you have to throw down on corps because they cause government in the first place...abuses of free market cause governments to take action AFTER the damage is done, far long after the abuses are done and shady profits are taken. Free markets are not interested in taking care of the lesser, your side wants to take FROM the lesser and reward the elite...the chasm of income inequality and wealth inequality shows what happens when you take from and abuse those without power to reward those with power.

    Last thing...you of course did not address the cost of this GDP print, how much should it cost to make a 4.1, how much for a 3.1 or a 5.1, how much in debt and future taxes/reduction in benefit for the lesser should it cost to print that 4.1 that you are applauding? A trillion, two trillion, ten trillion? How much in real cash, real debt, real benefit reduction should it cost so you can applaud a BK loser/cheater like Trump?

    What does small government mean..  Really ??   How about reducing the size of government so we don't spend so much.   That's what small government means..   I think I addressed that already in an earlier post.  BIG government entitlement programs are the cause (i.e. cost drivers) of today's debt problems.   That fact cannot be disputed. 


    And you say Government is large due to abuses and neglect to the common citizen.   WTF ??     This is such a scary comment I don't even know where to begin.  It almost begs the question, in your world,  was government created to protect of the individual from abuses. 

    I'm sorry, but I'm a believer that government is the problem, and not the answer (remember that one ?) , and believing in comments such as "ask what not your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."   H3LL, a democrat even said that one, go figure !   Tells you how lopsided our current democrats are in thinking big government is good..

    And for god's sake, since you are calling out at what cost Trump's tax plan is having on your national debt, do I really need to point out to you again the REAL drivers of our debt again.  C'mon Wall, you're  smarter than that..  But , I will point out this to you...

    You or anyone else don't  even know IF there  will be a negative impact to the economy in the form of a larger debt because of the tax plan .  DEMS always have a difficult time understanding the concept of growth, not fully realizing that growth leads to greater spending by consumers, greater paychecks for workers, and thus, greater tax receipts for the IRS.   Yes, a Surplus is possible.. Imagine that !!! 

    Try thinking of making the pie larger, instead of cutting the pie into different slices. A gain from one doesn't need to come at the expense of another, but DEMS (read O'bama)  love engaging in this class warfare that pits individuals against other individuals.  Not healthy, nor the truth..  I think I've covered enough ground here for you to ponder.. 



     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 5:16 PM ET #56

    Actually you did not cover a single thing...you repeated what you said earlier...big government bad, small government good...growth good..DEMS bad.

    That is what you said..read your above post.

    I asked for specifics and a very direct question and you did none of that in the reply.

    To answer the big government comment...yep I 100% confirm that the government gets larger because of the abuses to citizens via corps and those with power. Regulations are created due to abuses of corps...lawsuits, complaints, deaths, crises come and the government reacts to those things by adding regulation and safeguards to stop the abuses of the common citizen and THAT adds to the size of government. Corps bring regulation onto themselves with abuses of power to increase profits, regulations come from harm done to citizens. The tax code gets larger and larger due to the abuses of the code and loopholes, exclusions get closed because of abuses to general language.

    The government is LOUSY at implementing anything, lousy at executing most everything because it is not quick enough to take action before abuses occur and there are not enough people in government that are capable of taking their job to a higher level...too many levels of low and middle management, too many roadblocks due to corps etc etc...my inlaws worked in the FDA for over 25 yrs on the front lines and back office, Ive heard a zillion stories plus the facts are pretty easy to find. I am not a fan of large government but I do not blindly call for small government and less regulation because it is not warranted and does not benefit the average citizen. When Trump has dismantled regulation the beneficiaries are corps and those harmed are private citizens...many many examples of this. 

    Corps are 10 steps ahead at all times and there is zero motivation or rationalization to even think that there is solid reason things will be different than the last 100 years when regulation and oversight is removed. When profit is a motive then nobody matters to a corp outside maximizing that profit.

    So back to the other thing...that itsy bitsy issue you side stepped. How much should a 4.1 cost? How much did it and does it cost? Adding ANY debt when there is not a catastrophe is the opposite of what should be happening...we should not be expanding the military, cutting taxes for corps and the elite unless the SURPLUS pays for these cuts and expansions. If ANY cut is funded off debt, if ANY unneeded expansion is made off debt it is NOT ok. You cannot pull a Trump and say that the cuts will be budget positive, there is no proof of this now or in the past...that top income tax cuts generate economic expansion and are worthy of the trillions in lost tax revenue. If you keep kicking the bucket like Trump is, saying "well maybe things wont be so bad" as your rationalization then you are no better than the BK King in office now.

    So how much in debt and lost benefit for the little guy should it cost for a 4.1 print? Oh and if you forgot interest rates are artificially low so those lower guys and retirees who might benefit from interest income are not able to do so, but those corps and the government is benefitting in the form of higher profits, lower interest expense and lower interest to GDP ratios.

    Reply

    Actually you did not cover a single thing...you repeated what you said earlier...big government bad, small government good...growth good..DEMS bad.

    That is what you said..read your above post.

    I asked for specifics and a very direct question and you did none of that in the reply.

    To answer the big government comment...yep I 100% confirm that the government gets larger because of the abuses to citizens via corps and those with power. Regulations are created due to abuses of corps...lawsuits, complaints, deaths, crises come and the government reacts to those things by adding regulation and safeguards to stop the abuses of the common citizen and THAT adds to the size of government. Corps bring regulation onto themselves with abuses of power to increase profits, regulations come from harm done to citizens. The tax code gets larger and larger due to the abuses of the code and loopholes, exclusions get closed because of abuses to general language.

    The government is LOUSY at implementing anything, lousy at executing most everything because it is not quick enough to take action before abuses occur and there are not enough people in government that are capable of taking their job to a higher level...too many levels of low and middle management, too many roadblocks due to corps etc etc...my inlaws worked in the FDA for over 25 yrs on the front lines and back office, Ive heard a zillion stories plus the facts are pretty easy to find. I am not a fan of large government but I do not blindly call for small government and less regulation because it is not warranted and does not benefit the average citizen. When Trump has dismantled regulation the beneficiaries are corps and those harmed are private citizens...many many examples of this. 

    Corps are 10 steps ahead at all times and there is zero motivation or rationalization to even think that there is solid reason things will be different than the last 100 years when regulation and oversight is removed. When profit is a motive then nobody matters to a corp outside maximizing that profit.

    So back to the other thing...that itsy bitsy issue you side stepped. How much should a 4.1 cost? How much did it and does it cost? Adding ANY debt when there is not a catastrophe is the opposite of what should be happening...we should not be expanding the military, cutting taxes for corps and the elite unless the SURPLUS pays for these cuts and expansions. If ANY cut is funded off debt, if ANY unneeded expansion is made off debt it is NOT ok. You cannot pull a Trump and say that the cuts will be budget positive, there is no proof of this now or in the past...that top income tax cuts generate economic expansion and are worthy of the trillions in lost tax revenue. If you keep kicking the bucket like Trump is, saying "well maybe things wont be so bad" as your rationalization then you are no better than the BK King in office now.

    So how much in debt and lost benefit for the little guy should it cost for a 4.1 print? Oh and if you forgot interest rates are artificially low so those lower guys and retirees who might benefit from interest income are not able to do so, but those corps and the government is benefitting in the form of higher profits, lower interest expense and lower interest to GDP ratios.

     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 6:26 PM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Way to cherry pick your data points.    What a fool you are...

    How about this one, since you guys AGAIN cannot understand the concept of AVERAGES .


    The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. has experienced since World War II. It's even below the rather sluggish rebound during President George W. Bush's tenure of 2.7%.






    Where do you get your data ?

    You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"

    How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?


    You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. 

    who said this ?

    Do you have the data to back this up ?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Way to cherry pick your data points.    What a fool you are...

    How about this one, since you guys AGAIN cannot understand the concept of AVERAGES .


    The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. has experienced since World War II. It's even below the rather sluggish rebound during President George W. Bush's tenure of 2.7%.






    Where do you get your data ?

    You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"

    How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?


    You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. 

    who said this ?

    Do you have the data to back this up ?

     
    BWS77
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 7:40 PM ET #58

    it's ok...  Trump said the farmers don't mind the tariffs.  All is great!!!!
    Reply
    it's ok...  Trump said the farmers don't mind the tariffs.  All is great!!!!
     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 7:49 PM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:

    it's ok...  Trump said the farmers don't mind the tariffs.  All is great!!!!

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:

    it's ok...  Trump said the farmers don't mind the tariffs.  All is great!!!!

     
    nature1970
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2018 - 8:04 PM ET #60

    JudgrJudgrJruuled againat a gag order for stormy Daniels Testimony and Hearing... well swing and.miss for.team Guliani....  TarrifsTwTlT drive.the cost.of manufacture goods up and.price per food down .b ut stormy and Trump had an affair Micheal"s seized property will be well should be public knowledge.... Oh this is going to be interesting. Like Bush's doctor .... Interesting.

     

    Reply

    JudgrJudgrJruuled againat a gag order for stormy Daniels Testimony and Hearing... well swing and.miss for.team Guliani....  TarrifsTwTlT drive.the cost.of manufacture goods up and.price per food down .b ut stormy and Trump had an affair Micheal"s seized property will be well should be public knowledge.... Oh this is going to be interesting. Like Bush's doctor .... Interesting.

     

     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2018 - 3:22 PM ET #61

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:



    Where do you get your data ?

    You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"

    How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?


    You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. 

    who said this ?

    Do you have the data to back this up ?

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.html


    Holy smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents..

    And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. 


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:



    Where do you get your data ?

    You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"

    How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?


    You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. 

    who said this ?

    Do you have the data to back this up ?

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.html


    Holy smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents..

    And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. 


     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2018 - 3:38 PM ET #62

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Actually you did not cover a single thing...you repeated what you said earlier...big government bad, small government good...growth good..DEMS bad.

    That is what you said..read your above post.

    I asked for specifics and a very direct question and you did none of that in the reply.

    To answer the big government comment...yep I 100% confirm that the government gets larger because of the abuses to citizens via corps and those with power. Regulations are created due to abuses of corps...lawsuits, complaints, deaths, crises come and the government reacts to those things by adding regulation and safeguards to stop the abuses of the common citizen and THAT adds to the size of government. Corps bring regulation onto themselves with abuses of power to increase profits, regulations come from harm done to citizens. The tax code gets larger and larger due to the abuses of the code and loopholes, exclusions get closed because of abuses to general language.

    The government is LOUSY at implementing anything, lousy at executing most everything because it is not quick enough to take action before abuses occur and there are not enough people in government that are capable of taking their job to a higher level...too many levels of low and middle management, too many roadblocks due to corps etc etc...my inlaws worked in the FDA for over 25 yrs on the front lines and back office, Ive heard a zillion stories plus the facts are pretty easy to find. I am not a fan of large government but I do not blindly call for small government and less regulation because it is not warranted and does not benefit the average citizen. When Trump has dismantled regulation the beneficiaries are corps and those harmed are private citizens...many many examples of this. 

    Corps are 10 steps ahead at all times and there is zero motivation or rationalization to even think that there is solid reason things will be different than the last 100 years when regulation and oversight is removed. When profit is a motive then nobody matters to a corp outside maximizing that profit.

    So back to the other thing...that itsy bitsy issue you side stepped. How much should a 4.1 cost? How much did it and does it cost? Adding ANY debt when there is not a catastrophe is the opposite of what should be happening...we should not be expanding the military, cutting taxes for corps and the elite unless the SURPLUS pays for these cuts and expansions. If ANY cut is funded off debt, if ANY unneeded expansion is made off debt it is NOT ok. You cannot pull a Trump and say that the cuts will be budget positive, there is no proof of this now or in the past...that top income tax cuts generate economic expansion and are worthy of the trillions in lost tax revenue. If you keep kicking the bucket like Trump is, saying "well maybe things wont be so bad" as your rationalization then you are no better than the BK King in office now.

    So how much in debt and lost benefit for the little guy should it cost for a 4.1 print? Oh and if you forgot interest rates are artificially low so those lower guys and retirees who might benefit from interest income are not able to do so, but those corps and the government is benefitting in the form of higher profits, lower interest expense and lower interest to GDP ratios.

    Wall, seriously, I can't keep explaining the same thing over and over...stop playing games..   It's clear (and always has been), that you and I believe in the role of government through different lenses.  Your above post clearly shows that you have a bias that business is bad,  and is the reason why we need to create regulations and add on to government to protect the consumer.  Granted, there was a time in the early 20th century when this mindset had merit.. but now ??   I'm sorry, but corporations are made up of "individuals", and those individuals have every right to maximize profits for their companies that are legal under law.   People feel left out at not being paid what they are worth?  They have the freedom to  go find another higher paying job (and they are)...   That is the basis of capitalism.   Is there a more successful form of "capitalism" that you believe would help advance society ??   Honest Question....   Do yourself a favor, and stop denigrating corporation and big business..


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Actually you did not cover a single thing...you repeated what you said earlier...big government bad, small government good...growth good..DEMS bad.

    That is what you said..read your above post.

    I asked for specifics and a very direct question and you did none of that in the reply.

    To answer the big government comment...yep I 100% confirm that the government gets larger because of the abuses to citizens via corps and those with power. Regulations are created due to abuses of corps...lawsuits, complaints, deaths, crises come and the government reacts to those things by adding regulation and safeguards to stop the abuses of the common citizen and THAT adds to the size of government. Corps bring regulation onto themselves with abuses of power to increase profits, regulations come from harm done to citizens. The tax code gets larger and larger due to the abuses of the code and loopholes, exclusions get closed because of abuses to general language.

    The government is LOUSY at implementing anything, lousy at executing most everything because it is not quick enough to take action before abuses occur and there are not enough people in government that are capable of taking their job to a higher level...too many levels of low and middle management, too many roadblocks due to corps etc etc...my inlaws worked in the FDA for over 25 yrs on the front lines and back office, Ive heard a zillion stories plus the facts are pretty easy to find. I am not a fan of large government but I do not blindly call for small government and less regulation because it is not warranted and does not benefit the average citizen. When Trump has dismantled regulation the beneficiaries are corps and those harmed are private citizens...many many examples of this. 

    Corps are 10 steps ahead at all times and there is zero motivation or rationalization to even think that there is solid reason things will be different than the last 100 years when regulation and oversight is removed. When profit is a motive then nobody matters to a corp outside maximizing that profit.

    So back to the other thing...that itsy bitsy issue you side stepped. How much should a 4.1 cost? How much did it and does it cost? Adding ANY debt when there is not a catastrophe is the opposite of what should be happening...we should not be expanding the military, cutting taxes for corps and the elite unless the SURPLUS pays for these cuts and expansions. If ANY cut is funded off debt, if ANY unneeded expansion is made off debt it is NOT ok. You cannot pull a Trump and say that the cuts will be budget positive, there is no proof of this now or in the past...that top income tax cuts generate economic expansion and are worthy of the trillions in lost tax revenue. If you keep kicking the bucket like Trump is, saying "well maybe things wont be so bad" as your rationalization then you are no better than the BK King in office now.

    So how much in debt and lost benefit for the little guy should it cost for a 4.1 print? Oh and if you forgot interest rates are artificially low so those lower guys and retirees who might benefit from interest income are not able to do so, but those corps and the government is benefitting in the form of higher profits, lower interest expense and lower interest to GDP ratios.

    Wall, seriously, I can't keep explaining the same thing over and over...stop playing games..   It's clear (and always has been), that you and I believe in the role of government through different lenses.  Your above post clearly shows that you have a bias that business is bad,  and is the reason why we need to create regulations and add on to government to protect the consumer.  Granted, there was a time in the early 20th century when this mindset had merit.. but now ??   I'm sorry, but corporations are made up of "individuals", and those individuals have every right to maximize profits for their companies that are legal under law.   People feel left out at not being paid what they are worth?  They have the freedom to  go find another higher paying job (and they are)...   That is the basis of capitalism.   Is there a more successful form of "capitalism" that you believe would help advance society ??   Honest Question....   Do yourself a favor, and stop denigrating corporation and big business..


     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2018 - 4:04 PM ET #63

    Back to the OP of this thread.. I will point out that I do not agree with Trump's position of applying tariffs to our allies (Europe, Japan, Mexico, Canada), but I do agree with him applying tariffs to China.. 

    And the reason is simple  China is not even hiding the fact that they steal  U.S. technology from companies that wish to do business in China.  This forced technology transfer, or  "pay to play" form of access to Chinese markets is downright illegal, and the WTO is too weak to even call out their illegal behavior.  

    So, Trump has had his economic advisers Gary Cohn (now departed), Steve Mnuchin, Larry Kudlow try to work a deal with the Chinese before these tariffs were applied..  No luck w/ the Chinese.  They have no ambitions of changing this behavior and expanding their technical know-how at the expense of others.   

    I think the trade tariffs w/ the rest of the free world will mellow out, and deals will be formed... but I think the trade tariffs w/ China could escalate and  get real ugly. 

    Reply

    Back to the OP of this thread.. I will point out that I do not agree with Trump's position of applying tariffs to our allies (Europe, Japan, Mexico, Canada), but I do agree with him applying tariffs to China.. 

    And the reason is simple  China is not even hiding the fact that they steal  U.S. technology from companies that wish to do business in China.  This forced technology transfer, or  "pay to play" form of access to Chinese markets is downright illegal, and the WTO is too weak to even call out their illegal behavior.  

    So, Trump has had his economic advisers Gary Cohn (now departed), Steve Mnuchin, Larry Kudlow try to work a deal with the Chinese before these tariffs were applied..  No luck w/ the Chinese.  They have no ambitions of changing this behavior and expanding their technical know-how at the expense of others.   

    I think the trade tariffs w/ the rest of the free world will mellow out, and deals will be formed... but I think the trade tariffs w/ China could escalate and  get real ugly. 

     
    StumpTownStu
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2018 - 6:20 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    Where do you get your data ?You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. who said this ?Do you have the data to back this up ?
    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama..

    So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

    R.I.P. #94 MARSHAWN KNEELAND - DC4L
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    Where do you get your data ?You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. who said this ?Do you have the data to back this up ?
    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama..

    So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2018 - 9:10 PM ET #65

    Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    Where do you get your data ?You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. who said this ?Do you have the data to back this up ?
    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama..
    So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

     

    Stu.. I'm not a fan of cherry picking any data point.  People can always look at a one off to suit their argument .. But the averages back up Trump thus far..  3% growth so far ain't shabby...and   wages are rising.   People are doing better .   

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    Where do you get your data ?You went from GDP to US economy growth and now "Law of averages"How about you stopped running your mouth and cite your source ?You stated that The U.S. economy has only grown 2% a year since it bottomed out in June 2009. That's far below the typical growth in rosy times of over 4% a year that the U.S. who said this ?Do you have the data to back this up ?
    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama..
    So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

     

    Stu.. I'm not a fan of cherry picking any data point.  People can always look at a one off to suit their argument .. But the averages back up Trump thus far..  3% growth so far ain't shabby...and   wages are rising.   People are doing better .   

     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: Aug. 3, 2018 - 10:57 PM ET #66

    GDP growth is an imperfect measure of a president's economic impact.  Economic performance index should include unemployment, inflation, GDP growth and budget deficits.  According to 5minuteeconomist, Obama is ranked 10th best president in economic performance.  In C-span survey of 80+ presidential historians, Obama is ranked 8th best in economic management in US history.

    Wallstreetcapper is right.  Presidents should be judged by circumstances of the times.  Good governments are supposed to increase deficits during recessions and decrease deficits during booms.  Obama successfully did both.  However Trump is unnecessarily increasing deficits instead of decreasing them.

    Trump is overrated since he inherits a strong economy.  Whereas Obama inherits the worst recession since the great depression of the 1930s.  Unlike minor recessions, a long recovery period of slow GDP growth is necessary for many countries  Still Obama lead one of the greatest economic turnaround in US history with job creation stronger than Trump and other presidents according to Bureau of labor statistics.

    Trump takes too much credit for years of economic recovery by Obama that has nothing to do with Trump.  Some of  Trump policies haven't made any positive impact yet.  Historically, US economy has averaged 3% GDP growth from 1947 to 2018.  Most economists doubt high growth is sustainable and forecast slower economy in future years.
    Reply
    GDP growth is an imperfect measure of a president's economic impact.  Economic performance index should include unemployment, inflation, GDP growth and budget deficits.  According to 5minuteeconomist, Obama is ranked 10th best president in economic performance.  In C-span survey of 80+ presidential historians, Obama is ranked 8th best in economic management in US history.

    Wallstreetcapper is right.  Presidents should be judged by circumstances of the times.  Good governments are supposed to increase deficits during recessions and decrease deficits during booms.  Obama successfully did both.  However Trump is unnecessarily increasing deficits instead of decreasing them.

    Trump is overrated since he inherits a strong economy.  Whereas Obama inherits the worst recession since the great depression of the 1930s.  Unlike minor recessions, a long recovery period of slow GDP growth is necessary for many countries  Still Obama lead one of the greatest economic turnaround in US history with job creation stronger than Trump and other presidents according to Bureau of labor statistics.

    Trump takes too much credit for years of economic recovery by Obama that has nothing to do with Trump.  Some of  Trump policies haven't made any positive impact yet.  Historically, US economy has averaged 3% GDP growth from 1947 to 2018.  Most economists doubt high growth is sustainable and forecast slower economy in future years.
     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Aug. 4, 2018 - 12:08 PM ET #67

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.html


    Holy smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents..

    And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. 



     "Law of Averages"


    Could not find "Law of averages " in ths CCN ( oops "Fake news" ) report 
    CNN is no longer "fake news"  

    Dude please 


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.html


    Holy smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents..

    And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. 



     "Law of Averages"


    Could not find "Law of averages " in ths CCN ( oops "Fake news" ) report 
    CNN is no longer "fake news"  

    Dude please 


     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Aug. 4, 2018 - 12:09 PM ET #68

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

     

    Stu.. I'm not a fan of cherry picking any data point.  People can always look at a one off to suit their argument .. But the averages back up Trump thus far..  3% growth so far ain't shabby...and   wages are rising.   People are doing better .   


    You are still running your mouth 

     isn't CNN "fake news" ?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:

    https://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.htmlHoly smokes..  Let me slow down and explain this all to you.. GDP growth, economic growth.. they are the same..  and when I'm talking "average"  economic growth, I'm talking about the average annual GDP growth (or economic growth) under O'bama..   Look at the above link ; they cite the same "average" annual growth under different presidents.. And stop cherry picking your data points as I pointed out earlier.  Those are "outliers", and clearly far away from the pitiful 2.0% growth under O'bama.. So is Trump's "4.1%" for one quarter not cherry picking?

     

    Stu.. I'm not a fan of cherry picking any data point.  People can always look at a one off to suit their argument .. But the averages back up Trump thus far..  3% growth so far ain't shabby...and   wages are rising.   People are doing better .   


    You are still running your mouth 

     isn't CNN "fake news" ?
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: Aug. 29, 2018 - 9:14 PM ET #69

    U.S. economic growth was a bit stronger than initially thought in the second quarter, notching its best performance in nearly four years and putting the economy on track to hit the Trump administration’s goal of 3 % annual growth.

    Today the Commerce Department said the Gross domestic product is revised up to 4.2 % annualized rate..

    ..and Nasdaq is at a record high,,,

    We keep on winning..
    Reply
    U.S. economic growth was a bit stronger than initially thought in the second quarter, notching its best performance in nearly four years and putting the economy on track to hit the Trump administration’s goal of 3 % annual growth.

    Today the Commerce Department said the Gross domestic product is revised up to 4.2 % annualized rate..

    ..and Nasdaq is at a record high,,,

    We keep on winning..
     
    Midnight1
    Midnight1
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    Posted: Aug. 29, 2018 - 9:49 PM ET #70

    Trump, July 13: And yet the United States pays 4.2 per cent — is the actual number not 3.5 — it’s 4.2 per cent of a much larger GDP. In fact the GDP since I’ve taken over has doubled and tripled. So it’s very you know it’s a very unfair number.

    What a moron

    Reply

    Trump, July 13: And yet the United States pays 4.2 per cent — is the actual number not 3.5 — it’s 4.2 per cent of a much larger GDP. In fact the GDP since I’ve taken over has doubled and tripled. So it’s very you know it’s a very unfair number.

    What a moron

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: Nov. 27, 2023 - 9:01 AM ET #71

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    1) BMW will would move production for some of its SUVs out of the U.S. as a result of new tariffs placed on the vehicles, according to The Post and Courier in South Carolina.   BMW is the largest U.S. auto exporter and employs 10,000 people at a plant in Spartanburg, S.C. The brand’s X3, X4, X5 and X6 SUV models and their variants are produced there.   Trump hit China last week with steep tariffs on about $34 billion worth of products.   China responded with retaliatory tariffs on American imports, including SUVs, soybeans and seafood.     2) Harley Davidson has announced that it was moving some of its operations overseas because Trump’s tariffs will raise prices of its bikes in the U.S. and shrink the market.     3) The country’s biggest nail maker, Mid-Continent Nail, said it laid off 60 U.S. employees on June 15 and that the whole company might go out of business by Labor Day. The Missouri company had been importing the steel for its nails from Mexico before the Trump administration placed a 25% tariff on the steel.     4) China  buys soy from Russia after canceling US orders over Trump threats   5) REC Silicon, which manufactures polysilicon for solar equipment, said it laid off 100 workers at its factory in Washington State because of the U.S.’s ongoing trade dispute with China. The company said its Washington plant has gone down to a quarter of its production capacity because of the dispute. The Solar Energy Industries Association estimates that new tariffs imposed by the Trump administration in January will remove 23,000 jobs from the U.S. solar industry. General Motors sent a letter to the Commerce Department complaining that further tariffs on imported auto parts and materials could result in higher car prices and, ultimately, a smaller GM.     5) Volvo just opened a new plant in Ridgeville, South Carolina, and promised that 4,000 new employees would eventually work there. The company is now saying it may have to break its hiring promise because of the Trump administration’s steel tariffs and the threat of retaliatory tariffs by other countries.         “I said that I will be the greatest jobs producer that God ever created–and I mean that.”  Donald J Trump      Sources: The Post and Courier (South Carolina), FastCompany.com

    This didn't age well.

    BMW is still in Spartanburg, now has 11,000 employees

    Volvo in Ridgeville huming along.

    REC Silicon looking for growth in 2024.

    Harley-Davidson announced Thailand operations before Trump tariffs

    Mid-Continent Nail still going strong.

    Coca-cola, Whirlpool?? Still there.

    AND SO ARE THE TARIFFS. an_lightan_light

     

     

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:

    1) BMW will would move production for some of its SUVs out of the U.S. as a result of new tariffs placed on the vehicles, according to The Post and Courier in South Carolina.   BMW is the largest U.S. auto exporter and employs 10,000 people at a plant in Spartanburg, S.C. The brand’s X3, X4, X5 and X6 SUV models and their variants are produced there.   Trump hit China last week with steep tariffs on about $34 billion worth of products.   China responded with retaliatory tariffs on American imports, including SUVs, soybeans and seafood.     2) Harley Davidson has announced that it was moving some of its operations overseas because Trump’s tariffs will raise prices of its bikes in the U.S. and shrink the market.     3) The country’s biggest nail maker, Mid-Continent Nail, said it laid off 60 U.S. employees on June 15 and that the whole company might go out of business by Labor Day. The Missouri company had been importing the steel for its nails from Mexico before the Trump administration placed a 25% tariff on the steel.     4) China  buys soy from Russia after canceling US orders over Trump threats   5) REC Silicon, which manufactures polysilicon for solar equipment, said it laid off 100 workers at its factory in Washington State because of the U.S.’s ongoing trade dispute with China. The company said its Washington plant has gone down to a quarter of its production capacity because of the dispute. The Solar Energy Industries Association estimates that new tariffs imposed by the Trump administration in January will remove 23,000 jobs from the U.S. solar industry. General Motors sent a letter to the Commerce Department complaining that further tariffs on imported auto parts and materials could result in higher car prices and, ultimately, a smaller GM.     5) Volvo just opened a new plant in Ridgeville, South Carolina, and promised that 4,000 new employees would eventually work there. The company is now saying it may have to break its hiring promise because of the Trump administration’s steel tariffs and the threat of retaliatory tariffs by other countries.         “I said that I will be the greatest jobs producer that God ever created–and I mean that.”  Donald J Trump      Sources: The Post and Courier (South Carolina), FastCompany.com

    This didn't age well.

    BMW is still in Spartanburg, now has 11,000 employees

    Volvo in Ridgeville huming along.

    REC Silicon looking for growth in 2024.

    Harley-Davidson announced Thailand operations before Trump tariffs

    Mid-Continent Nail still going strong.

    Coca-cola, Whirlpool?? Still there.

    AND SO ARE THE TARIFFS. an_lightan_light

     

     

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posts: 10454
    Posted: Nov. 30, 2023 - 7:23 PM ET #72

    AJanuary 2021 study commissioned by the U.S.-China Business Council (USCBC) claims that former president Donald Trump’s trade policies cost the United States 245,000 jobs. As a Reuters news report put it, 

    SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

    • Trump’s tariffs did not help the U.S. negotiate better trade agreements or significantly improve national security.

    • SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

    FORBES; TRUMP'S TARIFFS WERE MUCH MORE DAMAGING THAN THOUGHT.

    SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

    Reply

    AJanuary 2021 study commissioned by the U.S.-China Business Council (USCBC) claims that former president Donald Trump’s trade policies cost the United States 245,000 jobs. As a Reuters news report put it, 

    SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

    • Trump’s tariffs did not help the U.S. negotiate better trade agreements or significantly improve national security.

    • SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

    FORBES; TRUMP'S TARIFFS WERE MUCH MORE DAMAGING THAN THOUGHT.

    SO WHY ARE THEY STILL IN PLACE?

     

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posted: May. 18, 2024 - 4:42 PM ET #73

    Sure had fun searching "tariffs" and finding these partisan gems.

    an_roll_laugh

    Reply

    Sure had fun searching "tariffs" and finding these partisan gems.

    an_roll_laugh

     
    UNIMAN
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    Posts: 10454
    Posted: May. 18, 2024 - 7:05 PM ET #74

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    GDP growth is an imperfect measure of a president's economic impact.  Economic performance index should include unemployment, inflation, GDP growth and budget deficits.

    For Biden, one out of four. 

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    GDP growth is an imperfect measure of a president's economic impact.  Economic performance index should include unemployment, inflation, GDP growth and budget deficits.

    For Biden, one out of four. 

     
     
    thirdperson
    thirdperson
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    Joined: Feb, 2005
    Posts: 9493
    Posted: May. 23, 2024 - 10:45 AM ET #75

    If re-elected, Trump's plans to increase tariffs would cost Americans $500 billion per year according to Peterson institute for international economics.  Costing average family at least $1700 a year.  These estimates don't include damage from foreign retaliations, slower economic growth and lost competitiveness.  So actual impact could be twice as high.  Moody analytics estimate such tariffs could plunge US economy into a recession.

    Reply

    If re-elected, Trump's plans to increase tariffs would cost Americans $500 billion per year according to Peterson institute for international economics.  Costing average family at least $1700 a year.  These estimates don't include damage from foreign retaliations, slower economic growth and lost competitiveness.  So actual impact could be twice as high.  Moody analytics estimate such tariffs could plunge US economy into a recession.

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