Trump has changed on immigration?

Question

Why are the left - and some on the right, saying Trump has changed on immigration?

Trump on illegal immigration, “We have at least 11 million people in this country that came in illegally. They will go out, they will come back, and some will come back, the best, through a process. It may not be a very quick process, but I think that’s very fair and very fine.”

“We’re going to see what happens once we strengthen up our border,” “when asked if Trump was going to deport all undocumented immigrants, “there’s a very good chance the answer is yes.” He added that there would be no path to legalization unless people leave the US first and come back.

Trump called for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.” - With exceptions for “Muslim friends” and Muslims serving in the military.

Trump stopped saying Muslims when talking about bans. “I’m talking about territories now,” he told Fox News. “People don’t want me to say Muslim. I prefer not saying it, frankly, myself. So we’re talking about territories.”

The only change is see is the word “Muslim” changed with territory. And we all know Trump means "Muslim territories." Where is the flip flopping or softening? It looks like another imaginary left wing fabrication.

MoneySRH · Answer

Why are the left - and some on the right, saying Trump has changed on immigration?

Trump on illegal immigration, “We have at least 11 million people in this country that came in illegally. They will go out, they will come back, and some will come back, the best, through a process. It may not be a very quick process, but I think that’s very fair and very fine.”

“We’re going to see what happens once we strengthen up our border,” “when asked if Trump was going to deport all undocumented immigrants, “there’s a very good chance the answer is yes.” He added that there would be no path to legalization unless people leave the US first and come back.

Trump called for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.” - With exceptions for “Muslim friends” and Muslims serving in the military.

Trump stopped saying Muslims when talking about bans. “I’m talking about territories now,” he told Fox News. “People don’t want me to say Muslim. I prefer not saying it, frankly, myself. So we’re talking about territories.”

The only change is see is the word “Muslim” changed with territory. And we all know Trump means "Muslim territories." Where is the flip flopping or softening? It looks like another imaginary left wing fabrication.

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Money, the fact is that everyone&#x27;s favorite candidate, HRC, has done more flip-flopping over the years than any candidate in recent memory. She is the queen of pandering. When she does it is referred to as good politics.Trump softens his stance on immigration, without flip-flopping, and it is dissected in the media as if he just grew a third arm out of his rectum. The MSM refuses to report the news sans a spin. If they would steadfastly report on the fact that there are too many ILLEGAL immigrants in this country, and explain the burden they impose on our economic system, and emphasis who is paying for this burden, then the people in general would fully support Trumps stance on immigration. And then the queen of pandering would have a much different &#x27;opinion&#x27; on this subject

Ktrain · Answer

https://ballotpedia.org/Gary_Johnson_presidential_campaign,_2016/Immigrationhttps://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Immigration.htm

Inyourlife16 · Answer

MONEY: why are people saying that Trump has changed his stance on immigration?

HUGH: Blame the media

TRUTH: During primaries Trump claimed that all Illegals must leave the country. Now Trump saying that the good ones can stay. FLIP FLOP

TheGoldenGoose · Answer

What you are witnessing here is simply a novice politician.  Trump is learning that brash statements leave little wiggle room in future discussions.  Politics 101 - NEVER paint yourself into a corner.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

That is good advice.  Paint fumes don&#x27;t make the best high.

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Once again you read my words and that&#x27;s all you can come away with? I would enjoy an intelligent discourse on the issues, unfortunately i&#x27;m not quite so sure you are a potential partner due to the requirement of &#x27;intelligent&#x27;

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Well said.I&#x27;m still not so sure that Trump cares, but there&#x27;s still time to prove me wrong

wallstreetcappers · Answer

I never thought he had a position..he speaks in broad idiotic generalities with no substance or details.

You go to 10 of his barn burner pitchfork meetings and you might come away with 5 different platforms for what he blabs about at the moment.

The guy has no clue about what his policies will actually require to enact let alone succeed.

Yeah lets round up all the brown people from Mexico, form military convoys to go and hunt them down...and he can hire some of his building contractors to build that wall on the cheap, because he has built lots of things...lots and lots of things, its really quite easy.

How can anyone take him seriously, he makes little sense and there is ZERO chance if he were elected that any of his blabberings actually unfold as he rants about it now.

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Wally, most reasonable people agree with what you wrote.

I know that I do.

IMO, the other side of this election has also been vague in her positions. Her ideas and desires have some detail, as I will show below, but she fails to detail one incredibly important item.

HRC recognized Bernie as having generated a following with young people, so she claims that there would be free college for many, lower tuition for most, and debt forgiveness for the masses.

But wait, there's more!

Did you make a bad life decision and have a child at a very young age?

No worries, you can be, in effect, PAID for having that child, because not only will you be given free tuition, but you can also receive additional funding for nanny-care.

Not yet satisfied? No worries, we have more gifts!!!

$25 Billion to support black colleges.

Income based repayment. That's right, you can be a slacker with no ramifications.

The Pell-Grant fund will now be year round (you can look it up for an explanation)

Her list of gifts for college students goes on and on.

Her details are in her ideas and concepts. Where her details are nonexistent is the most important detail of all.

Who is paying for all of this???

HRC's vague answer is that this will be FULLY paid for by limiting certain tax expenditures for the wealthy.

Excuse me???

I'm no economist, but it only requires a little investigation and some remedial math skills to understand that her "free college" plan as laid out would cost Trillions of dollars.

This means 2 things.

#1 The national debt rises dramatically

#2 My tax rate also rises dramatically

The truth is, her plan has no chance of becoming policy, and as a career politician, she is well aware of this.

This is textbook pandering, and nothing more.

Trump has no details on policy.

HRC simply details her lies.

If nothing else, HRC is a much better politician than Trump is.

We can debate whether this is good or bad

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Now I know why HRC is trying to play Santa Claus and give free gifts to everyone ...

https://nypost.com/video/over-300-reindeer-found-dead-after-lightning-strike/

The real Santa won't be able to make his rounds this year due to some mechanical issues with his vehicle

wallstreetcappers · Answer

I agree, Clinton without question is more polished and experienced, but I also agree she is horrible...just the kind of person I would not and do not trust.

This immigration garbage floats up every four years, the repubs like to rally the scaredy cat voters by making the election about fear topics...last time it was the marriage issue, immigration, the usual "fair share" joke..

Come December these issues are long gone and we go forward until the next election. Its a sham and nothing changes.

Reality about immigration is the issue is LOCAL...it is not some wall or segregating like Trump does, its day to day struggle with people making bad choices..there are abuses from all colors and walks of life, a segment of all mankind makes bad choices for a variety of reasons.

As humans we like to blame others for our ills...and immigration is low fruit, it is an easy mark to target and so the little brains like to use it to scare others into voting their way...and other little brains fall for it so the bigger little brains will keep using the tactic because it works!

Ktrain · Answer

I agree that Trump is vague and HRC is an awful human being. If only there was a viable third option to choose from.......

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

A voice of reason I don&#x27;t agree with everything you wrote, but I can see where you&#x27;re coming from. As far as immigration is concerned, while I can appreciate your suggestion that it is a local issue, I believe the larger problem to be illegals and the financial burden they impose on our system, and this is a national issue. I would like to see more discussion on this topic.The entire thing with &#x27;the wall&#x27; was simply stupid from the get go, and just Trump being the bombastic fool that he is. But I fully support Trump&#x27;s plan to deport illegals who do not meet certain criteria (I&#x27;m not sure yet what that criteria is, or should be, but give me some time and I will have an opinion on this, as I do most things) The issue with Muslims from the M.E. not being allowed in for any length of time is just fear mongering. I do believe in some sort of attempted vetting process, but I&#x27;m not certain that is achievable given our limited knowledge of the goings on in that region

Inyourlife16 · Answer

The entire thing with &#x27;the wall&#x27; was simply stupid from the get go, and just Trump being the bombastic fool that he is. But I fully support Trump&#x27;s plan to deport illegals who do not meet certain criteria (I&#x27;m not sure yet what that criteria is, or should be, but give me some time and I will have an opinion on this, as I do most things) -       This is awesome Hugh. Here is my quick take.A man stands on the debate stage and call his competitors weak on immigration because they wont deport ALL illegals. Trump said that he could and would deport ALL illegals because he was self funding his campaign and thus didn&#x27;t need to be politically correct. He rode that horse to victory in the primary. That&#x27;s why I believe that he should stick to that campaign promise. Tomorrow after his speech in AZ we should know if he stays with his promise or flip flops.

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

I don&#x27;t believe Trumps issue to be flip-flopping, although what I am about to express could be deemed as semantics. By definition, to flip-flop is to change direction, and I do not believe Trump has done that. What he has rightly and smartly done is soften his stance. IMO, he should stay true to deporting illegals, and I fully support that, but there should be reasonable exceptions, and I believe there will be.Yes, previously he did say "all illegals" would be deported. As you correctly pointed out, that might have worked for the primary, but that won&#x27;t fly in the general election, and Trumps camp knows this.I remain hesitant to believe that Trump wants to win, but with a few more politically savvy moves, I could be proven wrong, and he could have at least a punchers chance of winning. Doubtful, but possible

dl36 · Answer

It would appear that Trump has really done himself in on this one.   Took a lot of wild emotional colors and large brushes with broad strokes to paint him self in this badly

Inyourlife16 · Answer

Hugh......You are correct. We may call it different things.......softening, humane, course correction etc.

And you are also completely correct about a hard line immigration stance not playing well in the general.

I guess that leaves me with the following question: Why didn't Trump's competitors in the primary call for deportation forces also?..........especially if they knew that they could soften it up for the general election? It's more of a rhetorical question I guess.

Regardless, tomorrow after his immigration speech we should have a better idea of where he is headed on the issue.

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

I think the reason his competitors did not also call for mass deportation is that they were all either politicians, or politically correct.I would imagine a few of them privately approve of mass deportation of illegals, but they won&#x27;t dare say it publicly, lest they be verbally assaulted by the MSM (you didn&#x27;t think I would go 3 consecutive posts without referencing this, did you?) As you wrote, Trumps speech tomorrow, which is in a place where illegals is a very hot topic, will be very telling. Will he pacify those in attendance by taking a hard stance, or will he get &#x27;political&#x27; and play to the masses by softening his stance?It should be good fodder for discussion

Inyourlife16 · Answer

Rush Limbaugh put forth an interesting hypothetical solution to immigration reform last week. A main reason that Republicans are opposed to granting amnesty to 11 million illegals is they are potentially giving Democrats 11 million new voters.

So Rush floated the idea of granting amnesty with the condition that they can't vote for 25 years from the time that they become a citizen. I can't speak to the legality of this but it was an interesting solution to a complex problem.

dl36 · Answer

I remember people trying to call Rodney&#x27;s flipping and flopping around as evolving.  Such a sad and sorry attempt at trying to spin a lack of principles for personal growth.  But it was desperate times and a desperate spin was needed. The problem with trump was that he painted himself in a corner with such and extreme and absolute stance and that one of the only identifiable policies or proposals in getting all immigrants and Muslims out of the country and building a wall. Typically emotionally based view points are black and white extremes and the emotional content of the rhetoric leads toward such extreme view points.  And with black and white thinking and thinkers trump needed to sell this message so that it would resonate with how the GOP majority voting base thinks.  This would Differentiate him from Rubio and the gang of 8 that considered and negotiated a whole spectrum of ideas and possibilities other than the emotional  extremes.

wallstreetcappers · Answer

Hugh,I have to disagree with you about the conclusion of social cost from illegals and why we are spending so much time focusing on the pennies on the ground when the real theft is happening while we are looking down at the brown people again.Illegals in my opinion are net providers to the social system...they perform tasks at rates white folk are not interested in performing and that provides profits for businesses and goods at an artificially low cost to the consumer...that includes produce, labor, landscaping, etc etc...jobs that they WILL do while non-illegals are not interested in hard labor at cheap rates. Those benefits are tangible and real...also illegals purchase goods and services which add to the economy, Real theft that swamps illegals is in the following areas....the horrendous abuse of SS disability claims, corporate tax avoidance, non-illegals abuse of social programs, workmans comp abuse, personal injury litigation etc etc etc....I dont like theft of any kind but really to me the real theft isnt just from illegals and their NET social contribution is positive IMO....

Hugh_Jorgan · Answer

Wally, everything that you pointed out as being great burdens on our economy I 100% agree with. You are preaching to the choir when you discuss this with me.

Your points about illegals being a net positive are interesting, and I agree with the things which you referenced. It all makes perfect sense. Although, I'm still not of the opinion it is actually a net positive. I can provide a few reasons why I have this opinion, health care being one of the main ones, but something else you wrote has caught my attention, so I will move on to that.

Speaking of illegals you wrote "they perform tasks at rates which white people are not interested"

You lost me right there.

What about black people, or hispanics?

I apologize for going off topic, but I will venture off the reservation for a brief moment.

Too many black people are not interested in doing those jobs at any rates. This is a direct result of generations of welfare. Welfare is one of the most substantial draws on our economy (now I'm back on topic!) and it is abused more frequently than most other government programs.

Back to the intended subject ... tomorrow I will try to dig up some stats on the financial cost to society that is caused by illegals. If possible, I will attempt to offset these numbers by the benefits which you pointed out. Let's see where this takes us

Trump has changed on immigration?

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