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    All Forums | Politics

    Sec of Treas??? Are you kidding me???

    «First Previous 123 Next Last»
    ClubDirt
    sundance
    wallstreetcappers
    alangrrbs
    Europa
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    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 5:48 PM ET #26

    apparently, carrier also threatened to move jobs in 2013 and pence gave them $500,000 in grants.  i don't know what the answer is to this kind of thing, but if you keep giving these companies huge government handouts every time they make a threat, you have to know how this ends.  the taxpayer gets fucked and the company is going to do what it's going to do anyway eventually. 

    in this case, the taxpayer are now paying more than a million and a bunch of jobs are still going to mexico. 
    Reply
    apparently, carrier also threatened to move jobs in 2013 and pence gave them $500,000 in grants.  i don't know what the answer is to this kind of thing, but if you keep giving these companies huge government handouts every time they make a threat, you have to know how this ends.  the taxpayer gets fucked and the company is going to do what it's going to do anyway eventually. 

    in this case, the taxpayer are now paying more than a million and a bunch of jobs are still going to mexico. 
     
    sundance
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 6:24 PM ET #27

    wall, I did not  bash the hell out of O. I asked a question. That is all. What did O/O administration do to help Carrier stay and what did they do to keep Ford from moving an assembly line to Mexico. Without crunching numbers. 700k is not a big number. Indiana is in a serious financial situation if they can not handle $700,000. I believe the state and the employees of Carrier win in this specific situation.
    Reply
    wall, I did not  bash the hell out of O. I asked a question. That is all. What did O/O administration do to help Carrier stay and what did they do to keep Ford from moving an assembly line to Mexico. Without crunching numbers. 700k is not a big number. Indiana is in a serious financial situation if they can not handle $700,000. I believe the state and the employees of Carrier win in this specific situation.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 6:29 PM ET #28

    Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

    If UTX thinks Carrier is sinking then either subsidize or sell the unit..dont hold the state hostage over freebies.


    but here's the thing.  UTX is a hostage of the federal government, if anything.  they have $6.7 billion in federal contracts.  i didn't check but i have to think that's UTX's biggest client, or close.  why did the indiana taxpayers end up paying so much, why are more than half of those jobs still going to mexico and how long did carrier guarantee these other jobs would stay in IN anyway?

    Well I again do not have sympathy for UTX...they are not the originator of Carrier, they purchased them in 1979..so they have been in the family for 40 years and if they are not profitable and do not add value to the parent, then either sell it or try and find synergies with other subsidiaries of UTX.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

    If UTX thinks Carrier is sinking then either subsidize or sell the unit..dont hold the state hostage over freebies.


    but here's the thing.  UTX is a hostage of the federal government, if anything.  they have $6.7 billion in federal contracts.  i didn't check but i have to think that's UTX's biggest client, or close.  why did the indiana taxpayers end up paying so much, why are more than half of those jobs still going to mexico and how long did carrier guarantee these other jobs would stay in IN anyway?

    Well I again do not have sympathy for UTX...they are not the originator of Carrier, they purchased them in 1979..so they have been in the family for 40 years and if they are not profitable and do not add value to the parent, then either sell it or try and find synergies with other subsidiaries of UTX.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 6:34 PM ET #29

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    wall, I did not  bash the hell out of O. I asked a question. That is all. What did O/O administration do to help Carrier stay and what did they do to keep Ford from moving an assembly line to Mexico. Without crunching numbers. 700k is not a big number. Indiana is in a serious financial situation if they can not handle $700,000. I believe the state and the employees of Carrier win in this specific situation.

    You have been VERY critical of Obama and democrats over the last few years...I was not referencing this thread but your posting history. If you are critical of democratic actions and spending you cannot be ok with it when repubs are doing it...

    To me I am not in support of profitable corporate freebies, UTX is profitable and doing quite well, I would prefer to either not spend taxpayer money to give tax breaks to subs of massive profitable corps rather there are MANY MANY Indiana families who are in greater need than the 1000 employees and the corporation of Carrier.

    Focus on WHY Carrier is not competitive...even if you scalped half of the labor costs (which really is not accurate...the efficiency of labor in Mexico would not equal the US at first and for a while, so the "savings" are not as simple as what direct dollars are saved from labor) that STILL would not save Carrier if their gross margins are inferior or they are not able to meet their fixed costs relative to sales.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    wall, I did not  bash the hell out of O. I asked a question. That is all. What did O/O administration do to help Carrier stay and what did they do to keep Ford from moving an assembly line to Mexico. Without crunching numbers. 700k is not a big number. Indiana is in a serious financial situation if they can not handle $700,000. I believe the state and the employees of Carrier win in this specific situation.

    You have been VERY critical of Obama and democrats over the last few years...I was not referencing this thread but your posting history. If you are critical of democratic actions and spending you cannot be ok with it when repubs are doing it...

    To me I am not in support of profitable corporate freebies, UTX is profitable and doing quite well, I would prefer to either not spend taxpayer money to give tax breaks to subs of massive profitable corps rather there are MANY MANY Indiana families who are in greater need than the 1000 employees and the corporation of Carrier.

    Focus on WHY Carrier is not competitive...even if you scalped half of the labor costs (which really is not accurate...the efficiency of labor in Mexico would not equal the US at first and for a while, so the "savings" are not as simple as what direct dollars are saved from labor) that STILL would not save Carrier if their gross margins are inferior or they are not able to meet their fixed costs relative to sales.
     
    alangrrbs
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 7:44 PM ET #30

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  
    Reply
    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  
     
    Europa
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 7:53 PM ET #31

    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  

    Guess you had same tough loss on the HRC bet like me. But months before the Election you did warn the rural area voters in the Indiana State strongly inclined to Donald Trump. Great observation, please share your 2 cents here.    
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  

    Guess you had same tough loss on the HRC bet like me. But months before the Election you did warn the rural area voters in the Indiana State strongly inclined to Donald Trump. Great observation, please share your 2 cents here.    
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 8:19 PM ET #32

    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  

    Of course...feel free to share your story, I know many would be interested.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  

    Of course...feel free to share your story, I know many would be interested.

     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 9:20 PM ET #33

    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  




    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I live in Indianapolis...have lived here my whole life.  I own my own small business and my cousin has worked at Carrier for 20 years.  I have voted republican and democrat in my life.  Anyone want my 2 cents?  




     
    ClubDirt
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 9:22 PM ET #34

    also, feel free to tell us why indianapolis drafted a guy like luck and then surrounds him with garbage every season. 
    Reply
    also, feel free to tell us why indianapolis drafted a guy like luck and then surrounds him with garbage every season. 
     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 9:55 PM ET #35

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    If 700k is the number. Small price to pay if your are an Indiana tax payer in my opinion. Specific to Ford only. What did O/Obama administration do to keep Ford from moving one of their plants to Mexico?

    Well one thing he didn't do was pay them off with taxpayer money. Another thing I believe it's 800 jobs. Now how many other companies are going to take a hint and shake down the fraud -elect?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    If 700k is the number. Small price to pay if your are an Indiana tax payer in my opinion. Specific to Ford only. What did O/Obama administration do to keep Ford from moving one of their plants to Mexico?

    Well one thing he didn't do was pay them off with taxpayer money. Another thing I believe it's 800 jobs. Now how many other companies are going to take a hint and shake down the fraud -elect?

     
    alangrrbs
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 10:02 PM ET #36

    I will do this forum my best effort and write out my thoughts and post it tomorrow.  Hopefully, it generates some interesting thought and discussion.
    Reply
    I will do this forum my best effort and write out my thoughts and post it tomorrow.  Hopefully, it generates some interesting thought and discussion.
     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 10:05 PM ET #37

    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    I will do this forum my best effort and write out my thoughts and post it tomorrow.  Hopefully, it generates some interesting thought and discussion.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:

    I will do this forum my best effort and write out my thoughts and post it tomorrow.  Hopefully, it generates some interesting thought and discussion.

     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 10:11 PM ET #38

    And why is trump getting credit for this since in all probability pence set this up as he is still the governor? 
    Reply
    And why is trump getting credit for this since in all probability pence set this up as he is still the governor? 
     
    alangrrbs
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 10:38 PM ET #39

    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

    And why is trump getting credit for this since in all probability pence set this up as he is still the governor? 

    Lol...ding ding ding
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

    And why is trump getting credit for this since in all probability pence set this up as he is still the governor? 

    Lol...ding ding ding
     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 10:56 PM ET #40

    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:


    Lol...ding ding ding

    Sorry didn't mean to ruin it for you.lol
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by alangrrbs:


    Lol...ding ding ding

    Sorry didn't mean to ruin it for you.lol
     
    sundance
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 11:12 PM ET #41

    Correct number according to Mark Levin. 7m.
    Reply
    Correct number according to Mark Levin. 7m.
     
    mattbrot
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    Posted: Dec. 1, 2016 - 11:48 PM ET #42

    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer.
    Reply
    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer.
     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 11:01 AM ET #43

    Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:

    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer.


    finally our reliably and demonstrably wrong resident snowflake shares his 2 cents, I feel the ground shaking as I type this
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:

    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer.


    finally our reliably and demonstrably wrong resident snowflake shares his 2 cents, I feel the ground shaking as I type this
     
    sundance
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 11:41 AM ET #44

    I will say this. Trump has more balls than O,  Bush Jr, and Bill Clinton combined. Whole new ball game. The status quo is gone. The Left thought is was quite ok for the jobs to leave Indiana. 7m is a small number for a state that is actually in the black. This was a win for Trump no matter how the Left slices it up.
    Reply
    I will say this. Trump has more balls than O,  Bush Jr, and Bill Clinton combined. Whole new ball game. The status quo is gone. The Left thought is was quite ok for the jobs to leave Indiana. 7m is a small number for a state that is actually in the black. This was a win for Trump no matter how the Left slices it up.
     
    thirdperson
    thirdperson
    Captain
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    Posts: 9499
    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 1:25 PM ET #45

    According to Vox, Trump corporate welfare could encourage companies to threaten to move in hope of getting handouts.  This perverse incentive could cost taxpayers to save jobs that aren't actually in danger.

    If Trump tries to punish companies that move jobs overseas, they could be at a competitive disadvantage against foreign firms free to locate to low wage countries.  Resulting in US companies losing market share and eventually going bankrupt.
    Reply
    According to Vox, Trump corporate welfare could encourage companies to threaten to move in hope of getting handouts.  This perverse incentive could cost taxpayers to save jobs that aren't actually in danger.

    If Trump tries to punish companies that move jobs overseas, they could be at a competitive disadvantage against foreign firms free to locate to low wage countries.  Resulting in US companies losing market share and eventually going bankrupt.
     
    165yds
    165yds
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 2:00 PM ET #46

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    haha..

    700k a year is what sealed the deal, you are kidding yourself to think it had anything else to do but financial incentives.

    My prediction is Carrier will end up shuttering or move during his 4 years even with this free money.

    I bet Apple would move production over to the US if you gave them 100 billion dollars in tax breaks..




    Wow trying hard to spin this huh?  Break that number down and you know damn well it's nothing compared to the amount of revenue spent back into the economy.  How about those families so it's not 800 jobs saved it's a lot more.  How about their dignity they get to keep.  How about the money saved now that they don't have to go on welfare.  How about the bank now gets their mortgage payment every month instead of taking a loss.  I could go on and on but you're worried about 7 million?  Trump said something and his word is good that's the message here.  This is a huge victory for Trump.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


    haha..

    700k a year is what sealed the deal, you are kidding yourself to think it had anything else to do but financial incentives.

    My prediction is Carrier will end up shuttering or move during his 4 years even with this free money.

    I bet Apple would move production over to the US if you gave them 100 billion dollars in tax breaks..




    Wow trying hard to spin this huh?  Break that number down and you know damn well it's nothing compared to the amount of revenue spent back into the economy.  How about those families so it's not 800 jobs saved it's a lot more.  How about their dignity they get to keep.  How about the money saved now that they don't have to go on welfare.  How about the bank now gets their mortgage payment every month instead of taking a loss.  I could go on and on but you're worried about 7 million?  Trump said something and his word is good that's the message here.  This is a huge victory for Trump.  
     
    165yds
    165yds
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    Posts: 18777
    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 2:02 PM ET #47

    Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:

    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer. 



     
    Every village needs an idiot.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:

    My stance in trump is well documented here so I do not need to waste my our your time outlining it now.

    But for those who voted for trump, especially the hard living working class, that think this type of trend is good for the country in the long run - I do not know what else to tell you. If you really analyze this and all the other moves than it looks bad.

    I am. It sure that HRC would be any better but I do feel confident that this pattern will not be good for the people that think that trump would be the answer. 



     
    Every village needs an idiot.  
     
    bettingforfun
    bettingforfun
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 5:51 PM ET #48

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    I will say this. Trump has more balls than O,  Bush Jr, and Bill Clinton combined. Whole new ball game. The status quo is gone. The Left thought is was quite ok for the jobs to leave Indiana. 7m is a small number for a state that is actually in the black. This was a win for Trump no matter how the Left slices it up.

    Wrong again.  Mnuchin is EXACTLY the status quo.  He is a Wall Street insider that made millions of dollars at the expense of the middle class.  Nothing has changed with his pick for Secretary of Treasury.  As I said before "out with a Goldman and in with a new one".  No matter how you slice it it's business as usual.

    BTW Pence had the ball rolling on this long ago.  Trump told Pence to step aside and let him take credit for it.  Pence being the ever vigilant VP did as he was told.  

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance:

    I will say this. Trump has more balls than O,  Bush Jr, and Bill Clinton combined. Whole new ball game. The status quo is gone. The Left thought is was quite ok for the jobs to leave Indiana. 7m is a small number for a state that is actually in the black. This was a win for Trump no matter how the Left slices it up.

    Wrong again.  Mnuchin is EXACTLY the status quo.  He is a Wall Street insider that made millions of dollars at the expense of the middle class.  Nothing has changed with his pick for Secretary of Treasury.  As I said before "out with a Goldman and in with a new one".  No matter how you slice it it's business as usual.

    BTW Pence had the ball rolling on this long ago.  Trump told Pence to step aside and let him take credit for it.  Pence being the ever vigilant VP did as he was told.  

     
    sundance
    sundance
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    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 5:58 PM ET #49

    Here is what I have learned. It is extremely difficult for Lefties giving Trump credit. This is a winner. We actually will have leadership in the White House/Trump Tower that we have not had for several years. Trump has done more for the American  working man as a President elect than O has done in 8 years. That is the truth and it is a head shaker! MAGA!
    Reply
    Here is what I have learned. It is extremely difficult for Lefties giving Trump credit. This is a winner. We actually will have leadership in the White House/Trump Tower that we have not had for several years. Trump has done more for the American  working man as a President elect than O has done in 8 years. That is the truth and it is a head shaker! MAGA!
     
     
    bettingforfun
    bettingforfun
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    Posts: 2042
    Posted: Dec. 2, 2016 - 6:13 PM ET #50

    Here's what I have learned.

    Pence already had the ball rolling on this and this was a PR stunt.

    Trump inserted a Wall Street insider as Sec of Treas. thus filling the swamp back up.

    Did you give O credit for saving auto jobs?  
    Reply
    Here's what I have learned.

    Pence already had the ball rolling on this and this was a PR stunt.

    Trump inserted a Wall Street insider as Sec of Treas. thus filling the swamp back up.

    Did you give O credit for saving auto jobs?  
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