Harris/dems resort to fear mongering

  As the polling momentum seems to have changed, the Harris campaign, along with many that "endorse" her, seem to have resorted to fear tactics in an attempt to sway potential voters away from Trump. Harris' failed interviews & rallies have left the dems with little choice but to sling mud at their main opponent. Even Hillary, who still hasn't gotten over her defeat in 2016, has made an outlandish claim that Trumps upcoming MSG rally is an attempt to recreate a Nazi rally in 1939.

 Also, some former staff (Kelly) have made claims about some Trump comments that have now been debunked. Retired General Keith Kellogg — Pence’s former National Security Adviser — and Nick Ayers, Pence’s former chief of staff — released statements on Wednesday blasting the general’s claims.

 “Vice President Harris is a fraud. I was in the White House at a senior level much longer than General Kelly. He is complicit in this fraud and has lied to the American people. His lies, as well as John Bolton’s, are a disservice to [the] Nation at this critical time. So are the VP’s,” Kellogg wrote on X.

 Ayers called Kelly’s comments “patently false,” writing, “I’ve avoided commenting on intra-staff leaks or rumors or even lies as it relates to my time at the White House but General Kelly’s comments regarding President Trump are too egregious to ignore. I was with each of them more than most, and his commentary is *patently false.*”

Everyone loves a good train wreck. 

I will agree with some of your claims. I've said it elsewhere, but bears repeating, this tendency to appeal to low information voters with symbolism, fear and hyperbole is detrimental to democracy (which should entail decency, respect, fairness and truth).

Trump also has engaged in hyperbole. "We won't have a country left...." "The country is failing....they want to destroy America...."

However, there is a difference when the hyperbole can lead to serious reprucussions. Maybe in your mind, as a politician, you think you can assume that "intelligent people know I am exaggerating..." but this is not true, especially given the tendencies of low info voters to react emotionally and to vibe with your sentiments as you say over the cameras...."Trump is Hitler..."

I don't know why Americans are doing this but I fear there are repercussions that the Harris team is under valuating, and basically two appeals to these low info voters:

1/ racism. There are basically 4 ethnic groups in Europe--Germanic; Roman; Hellenist; Slavic. Most Americans are part of the germanic diaspora, and to compare someone that is germani heritage to Adolf Hitler is potentially very charged with racism, to hate someone and distrust them because of their heritage. I am against this completely, even if unintentional, it does have this effect. Most if not all germanic heritage people are ashamed of this period of 1939-45 and almost always never refer to it. We in Europe do not hold this against German people. We respect them, but it's like, if you're living in 1940 Czecheslovakia, Norway, Holland, Denmark, etc, etc, it's like "WTH are you doing in my country!? Get out of my country!" But there was no hatred, not then, not now, or should not be. The proverbial "trains run on time...." but this is orderliness and does not dismiss human rights' violations and war crimes. AH was a war Chanciller, propped up by German Armaments and a large manufacturing base, plus the military, and they put him into power. People who look a certain way should not be discriminated against.

2/ I also agree that if "Trump is a fascist" and "admires dictators" and has evil intentions, then any society and any citizen has a duty to eliminate that person. So calling someone that is asking for his murder. Not OK. America has a long bloody history of assassinations. Trump mentioned Pres McKinley in his radio chat with Joe Rogan, a Pres who was killed in office, and was against a personal income tax. JFK was killed in office. In both instances the rhetoric was very charged. The anarchist that killed McKinley was radicalized by anarchist dogma. JFK was likely killed by anti-Castro groups who felt Kennedy was an appeaser, and whoever killed him was radicalized by the fear of Russia and communism.

I don't think Trump is the best choice, but I disagree with this campaign tactic to reach low info voters with fear and hyperbole. I also think that if Trump made such a comment, it has to be on record, recorded for all to hear.

Trump does have a severe 'germanic' demeanor and a roundabout way of talking, sometimes off the cuff, too brusk, too out there...so it is easy to misquote him. He needs to improve on this, because it is a weakness in his statesmanship--PERIOD. Smile more, too (??)

@MizuNoYoNiNaru

  Trump certainly serves up more than his share of fodder, & the lib media is more than willing to pick all they can from it. Much of it is his own fault......he has no filter. What's astonishing is the fervor in which they push their attacks. Hillary is so bitter that she's just short of calling for his lynching. The Hitler stuff is childish, & it's tired. These people seem to forget that Trump has been around for decades & has already served one term. He isn't some guy that just showed up out of the blue. He's a known quantity. Running around blurting "He's a fascist!" & "He's Hitler!" doesn't make a case for you. But in lieu of Harris' failure to articulate what she truly stands for, or simply give a straight answer to any question, they've pulled out all the stops.

Experts now see Trump as a fascist.  Polls show half of Americans see Trump as a fascist.  He seeks unchecked power as a dictator, promises to use military against Americans and threatens democracy plus rule of law.

Experts 

you know what you are , also an expert 

Not quite half, but it is pretty lopsided.

Who's a Fascist?  Results among registered voters.

Trump   44%

Harris   18%

Both   5%

Neither   32%

There is a 1% rounding error.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-fascist-concerns-poll/story?id=115083795

ABC News/IPSOS poll shows 49 percent of registered voters identified the former president as a fascist. 

@MizuNoYoNiNaru

Wow..my post was censored..

[Quote: Originally Posted by Europa]Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson: Experts now see Trump as a fascist.  Polls show half of Americans see Trump as a fascist.  He seeks unchecked power as a dictator, promises to use military against Americans and threatens democracy plus rule of law. ABC News/IPSOS poll shows 49 percent of registered voters identified the former president as a fascist.[/Quote

they showed Hillary 99% back then 

u guys do not understand what is happening , in 2016 u had a qualified candidate at least , now u got a train wreck , for everyone to see 

https://x.com/Timcast/status/1850270235053391954?t=rgSBmxfFQwYsoTKS9bai_Q&s=19

Who s the dictator? People are so dumb. Facist lmao. We could sell a lot of bridges.

Trump's going to ruin democracy? Who yanked out a president and swapped ihim with someone who didn't receive a vote because they knew he couldn't win.  A guy who was perfectly fine according to the Dems. That seems like a democratic process lmao. You can't make this shit up. 

Btw the polls arent even close. He could flirt with the popular vote which means she has 0.0 chance. North Carolina and Georgia aren't tied. He's winning those easily. Nevada has completely flipped. Zona he's up big. He might sweep every swing state except Michigan. 

@THEMUGG

Libs desperation is peaking. 

What does this mean exactly? Raiders could not define and badlands above has not defined, are you able to define what exactly and precisely what this thread is meaning with details and facts that are not existent in BOTH campaigns?

If you are painting Harris with the adjectives and terms, you cannot have your side doing the same and worse then try and muddy the other side. What unique and identifiable issues is Harris leading with that Trump is not using the exact same methodology? Is the TNC not leading with fear in their marketing media campaign? I seem to recall Vance and Trump both pushing the fear narrative as the main front running scheme that they use to fool voters into believing their lies.

So can you or others elaborate not with generalities but with some depth, definition and details that are unique and not also being used by your party and side?

Claiming someone is incompetent, unable to do their duties, have stupidass ideas like defund police and abolish ICE is one thing.

Claiming someone is a fascist nazi who is unhinged and dangerous is another.

One invites violence. So much so they pulled their inciting violence adds after Trump got shot. Now, right back at it! Libs desperation is peaking! 

@UNIMAN

 Border fear...

Economic lies fear..

Stolen election fear..

Trump is unhinged, that is not fear that is a conclusion based on his cognitive issues and how he rambles, wanders, makes no sense and attacks as a narrative. He is unhinged...

So the fear isnt saying Trump is unhinged...the fear is SOME of what I listed above, care to address the fear your TNC party is marketing?

It's funny how Vance use to run around comparing Trump to Hitler. 

Key difference in fear mongering is that no one lies as much as Trump.  He lies as a policy to engage in disinformation campaign.  "As long as you repeat something often enough, it doesn't matter what you say."  Washington post recorded over 30,000 lies during 4 years as president.

Even at this MSG event, several speakers called Kamala a "communist." One speaker called her handlers, "pimps." Trump called her a "Marxist" in the debate. So while I do disagree with comparisons to Hitler, since this evokes hatred and triggers death wishes, I do not like the tone of the Trump campaign either, so many speakers, effected by Trump's stabby demeanor, referring to Harris as a hooker and a communist.

Let's face it....Trump is not an intellectual, not even close. He reads the hall, his immediate surroundings, like a perpetual comedy roast.....but running the nation is not about being edgy and salty on opponents....Trump lacks the intellectual capacity for policies, for even choosing and hiring correct personnel, for grasping the depth and reach of policies that have worldwide impacts, and to try keep things simplistically in terms of MAGA (American preeminence) is going to be detrimental to the middle class.

Tough times ahead.

Seems to me you Trump lovers forget you had a less than competent president in Raygun and chose to let his cabinet run the country! Sons Ron and Michael said it was apparent 3 years into his first term there concerning issues !  

@wallstreetcappers

Oh, I defined it well enough and gave examples. 

No need to pretend not to know the definition of fear-based tactics. 

Political campaigns use Fear because it works on a segment of the population. 

So, both sides are using it.  

My contention is that Harris is using it far more.  So much more, that it is her main strategy.

When all you do is accuse the opponent of being fascist, racist, misogynist, Hitler-ish, anti-environment, anti-women’s health, anti-SS, xenophobic, a threat to democracy, a dictator, unhinged, etc.  —  then that is the VERY definition of using fear-mongering.  

Then when you are asked what about your polices and your reply is, “Well, I’m not Trump!” —  this is the very definition of using Fear as your main tactic.  

Very little positivity and majority negativity is simply a bad campaign tactic to me. 

How many undecideds are there really at this point?  

How many would be easily swayed by this strategy?

If they are swayed by it, they probably should not be voting anyway. 

These are smart people running these campaigns.  They know it works. 

BUT for ONE reason only:  to KEEP their base stirred up and make sure they vote.  

Harris voters are NOT voting for anything positive she has done or said.  

Trump voters are voting for what they feel was positive from his first term and what they think will be positive in a second term.  

THAT is the difference. 

If the Democrats lose it is because they picked an empty vessel to run.  They would have been far better to have had a primary and let Newsom, or Whitmer, etc. run. 

The strategy may work, but at this point it looks bad. 

At this point it looks like they should consider swapping Harris out for Biden. 

Consider what the pundits are saying as well as more definition and example:

Fearmongering, when used as a political tool, has always been an effective means of swaying voters and winning elections.

But there is another side of fear we must consider, and even embrace. This is the type of fear that will cause independent and progressive voters to fight and win at any costs. It is the type of fear that presents a heighten sense of urgency knowing that the consequences we face cannot be allowed to occur. This type of fear makes us afraid where it drives us as individuals and communities to do what is right and necessary because of the enormous existential threat to democracy and the threats posed to people of color, veterans, young people, the elderly, the poor, immigrants and to the climate.

We should be very afraid of having someone like J.D. Vance as vice president and in line to carry the mantle of the MAGA movement beyond the Donald Trump era. We should be very afraid of the conservative mandate that calls for the elimination of public protection agencies such as the FDA and EPA. We should be very afraid of plans to defund the FBI and Homeland Security.

We should be very afraid of plans to cut Social Security, Medicare and end the Affordable Care Act. We should be very afraid at the prospect of eliminating unions and worker protections. We should be very afraid of the continued end of civil rights and DEI protections in government. We should be very afraid of the threat of the Supreme Court and lower courts being packed with right-wing judges who ignore the rule of law.

We should be very afraid that too many people are not paying attention and will regret not doing their part in stopping a second Trump administration. John Lewis taught us about getting into good trouble, necessary trouble. In the 2024 election and beyond, we must now be driven by a positive fear which beats back the darkness and preserves the positive gains from the past.

What began this summer with an explosion of “https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/08/23/harris-dnc-speech-walz-economy-democrats/74902546007/” and “good vibes” has suddenly morphed into something very different, now that we're closing in on the election. 

Harris’ initial jolt has fizzled, however, and polls indicate that she’s losing ground in these crucial final days of the campaign – while Trump is gaining it. 

That’s why in recent days, the tenor of Harris’ campaign has changed dramatically from one of joy to one of fearmongering. Gone are the days of focusing on her “opportunity economy.” Now is the time for calling Trump a “fascist.” 

Will scare tactics drive voters to Harris? Doubtful.

At several recent events, Harris doubled down on dire warnings about what a second Trump term would look like. From her residence in Washington, D.C., Harris told reporters Wednesday that Trump is “increasingly unhinged and unstable” and that he “wants unchecked power.”

Harris chose to respond to recent media interviews with John Kelly, Trump’s former White House chief of staff and a retired general. Kelly is quoted as saying Trump “falls into the general definition of fascist.” 

When it comes to the issues voters care about most, Trump also dominates. The Journal poll found that“by 10 points, more voters have a favorable than unfavorable view of Trump’s economic plan for the country, while unfavorable views of Harris’s economic plan outweigh positive views by 4 points.”

Similarly, a recent NBC News poll found that 45% of registered voters believe Biden-Harris administration policies are "hurting" their families, compared with only 25% who said they were helped by them. Comparatively, 44% of voters said they were helped by Trump policies when he was in office (31% said they were harmed). 

This is why Harris wants to change the conversation. 

Harris fails to define herself, so she’s making it about Trump

In case it’s not obvious what Harris is trying to do, she is scheduled to give a speech Tuesday at the same location outside the White House where President Trump gave his address shortly before the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021. 

She’ll drive home how scary it would be for the country and democracy if Trump were to win reelection. 

Harris is having to ditch the joy and turn to this rhetoric because https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/08/30/harris-walz-cnn-interview-lack-accountability/75009568007/ to the American people and what her presidency would look like. She has time and again been unable to say what she’d do differently than Biden, including at the CNN town hall. 

To fill this huge void, she’s stuffing it with fear over Trump. This isn’t a new tactic, however, and it’s one that failed for both Hillary Clinton in 2016 and proved ineffective in more recent years for Biden. Recall Biden’s dark rhetoric during his speech in 2022 when he warned about Trump and MAGA’s “threat to democracy.” He even had an ominous blood-red background to underscore his point. 

Biden also called Trump and his supporters https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2022/09/01/biden-speech-democratic-politics-not-unity/7958433001/”

The handwringing over Trump couldn’t save Biden’s campaign this year. Don’t count on it to help Harris, either. 

We already know she’s not Trump. But we still don’t know who she is.