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    All Forums | Politics

    Gunman shot by patron at mall.

    «First Previous 12
    nature1970
    Raiders22
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 253
    Posts: 34
    «First Previous 12
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2015
    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 3:19 PM ET #26

    Comparing Illinois A to Maine or new Hampshire's f rating.

    And viewing the drastically data

    New Hampshire.. Gun laws F.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    42 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    8.9
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?34%

    Maine gun laws F.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    29 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    40 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    10.4
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE -24

    Illinois given an A.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    8 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    14.1
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?3%

    Or Maryland another A state for laws.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    7 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    33 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    13.5
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?1%

    You can conclude gun laws and actual deaths by a gun do not relate to safer with more restrictive regulations according to the left wing gun control lobbiest. The Gifford center own dats.

    Source https://giffords.org/lawcenter/resources/scorecard/?scorecard=MD

     

     

    Reply

    Comparing Illinois A to Maine or new Hampshire's f rating.

    And viewing the drastically data

    New Hampshire.. Gun laws F.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    42 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    8.9
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?34%

    Maine gun laws F.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    29 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    40 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    10.4
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE -24

    Illinois given an A.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    8 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    14.1
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?3%

    Or Maryland another A state for laws.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    7 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    33 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    13.5
    % DIFFERENCE FROM NATIONAL AVERAGE
    ?1%

    You can conclude gun laws and actual deaths by a gun do not relate to safer with more restrictive regulations according to the left wing gun control lobbiest. The Gifford center own dats.

    Source https://giffords.org/lawcenter/resources/scorecard/?scorecard=MD

     

     

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
    Hall of Fame
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    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 4:33 PM ET #27

    Others have picked up on this blatant left wing propaganda.

     https://bearingarms.com/patrick-richardson/2021/02/25/giffords-law-center-score-card-ignores-truth-about-gun-deaths-n41420

    The Giffords Law Center has released its annual 

    Gun Law Scorecard 

    and predictably states with the maps draconian gun laws rated highest in the rankings. As you read the research one can surmise that more laws would mean less gun related deaths. But this premise is propaganda as statistically they remain even.

    Neither having a vast difference in laws to prevention or lack of laws to more risk.

    What is clear is those states invested heavily in mental awareness crisis prevention and social networks such as 211 crisis prevention lines do see a significant decline in homicides and suicides whether with a gun or other means.

    The Giffords Law Center was originally the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence and was founded in 1993 in San Francisco, California. Since 2010 the group has released a ranking of the states by their gun laws.

    In the 2020 version, the group gave the states letter grades and ranked the states individually by how restrictive their gun laws were.

    California and New Jersey were the only two states that earned an A rating by the group, with an additional six states earning an A- rating.

    On the more desirable end of the list for gun owners, twenty-one states earned an F rating. 

    Reply

    Others have picked up on this blatant left wing propaganda.

     https://bearingarms.com/patrick-richardson/2021/02/25/giffords-law-center-score-card-ignores-truth-about-gun-deaths-n41420

    The Giffords Law Center has released its annual 

    Gun Law Scorecard 

    and predictably states with the maps draconian gun laws rated highest in the rankings. As you read the research one can surmise that more laws would mean less gun related deaths. But this premise is propaganda as statistically they remain even.

    Neither having a vast difference in laws to prevention or lack of laws to more risk.

    What is clear is those states invested heavily in mental awareness crisis prevention and social networks such as 211 crisis prevention lines do see a significant decline in homicides and suicides whether with a gun or other means.

    The Giffords Law Center was originally the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence and was founded in 1993 in San Francisco, California. Since 2010 the group has released a ranking of the states by their gun laws.

    In the 2020 version, the group gave the states letter grades and ranked the states individually by how restrictive their gun laws were.

    California and New Jersey were the only two states that earned an A rating by the group, with an additional six states earning an A- rating.

    On the more desirable end of the list for gun owners, twenty-one states earned an F rating. 

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
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    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 4:37 PM ET #28

    Other dissenting options to Gifford law lobby to ban guns in America agenda. At one point they pushed heavily to disarm police....

    http://www.thegunmag.com

    https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com

     http://www.homicidecenter.org

     https://thenewamerican.com/latest-gun-death-scorecard-from-giffords-is-grossly-misleading/

    Reply

    Other dissenting options to Gifford law lobby to ban guns in America agenda. At one point they pushed heavily to disarm police....

    http://www.thegunmag.com

    https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com

     http://www.homicidecenter.org

     https://thenewamerican.com/latest-gun-death-scorecard-from-giffords-is-grossly-misleading/

     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
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    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 34784
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 5:53 PM ET #29

    an_cheers

    Reply

    an_cheers

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 5:56 PM ET #30

    If we look into the federalists and opponents both believed that the federal government should not be given the authority to disarm its citizens.

    Hence the second amendment .

    shortly after the U.S. Constitution was officially ratified, James Madison proposed the Second Amendment as a way to empower these state militias. While the Second Amendment did not answer the broader Anti-Federalist concern that the federal government had too much power, it did establish the principle (held by both Federalists and their opponents) that the government did not have the authority to disarm citizens.

    Source https://www.history.com

    Reply

    If we look into the federalists and opponents both believed that the federal government should not be given the authority to disarm its citizens.

    Hence the second amendment .

    shortly after the U.S. Constitution was officially ratified, James Madison proposed the Second Amendment as a way to empower these state militias. While the Second Amendment did not answer the broader Anti-Federalist concern that the federal government had too much power, it did establish the principle (held by both Federalists and their opponents) that the government did not have the authority to disarm citizens.

    Source https://www.history.com

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 6:20 PM ET #31

    As we can see in courts.

    5-4 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, which invalidated a federal law barring nearly all civilians from possessing guns in the District of Columbia, the Supreme Court extended Second Amendment protection to individuals in federal (non-state) enclaves.

    Writing the majority decision in that case, Justice Antonin Scalia lent the Court’s weight to the idea that the Second Amendment protects the right of individual private gun ownership for self-defense purposes.

    McDonald v. Chicago
    Two years later, in McDonald v. Chicago, the Supreme Court struck down (also in a 5-4 decision) a similar citywide handgun ban, ruling that the Second Amendment applies to the states as well as to the federal government.

    The Supreme court ruled that disarming citizens as a rule is unconstitutional.

    To the extent, then, that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to possess a firearm unrelated to any military purpose, it also establishes a protectible liberty interest. And, although the Supreme Court has indicated that this privilege may be withdrawn from some groups of persons such as convicted felons, there is no basis for categorically depriving persons who are merely accused of certain crimes of the right to legal possession of a firearm

    In the ruling it states individuals have the right to bear arms. 

    It does protect laws that stop mentally ill or felons from obtaining guns.

     

    Reply

    As we can see in courts.

    5-4 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, which invalidated a federal law barring nearly all civilians from possessing guns in the District of Columbia, the Supreme Court extended Second Amendment protection to individuals in federal (non-state) enclaves.

    Writing the majority decision in that case, Justice Antonin Scalia lent the Court’s weight to the idea that the Second Amendment protects the right of individual private gun ownership for self-defense purposes.

    McDonald v. Chicago
    Two years later, in McDonald v. Chicago, the Supreme Court struck down (also in a 5-4 decision) a similar citywide handgun ban, ruling that the Second Amendment applies to the states as well as to the federal government.

    The Supreme court ruled that disarming citizens as a rule is unconstitutional.

    To the extent, then, that the Second Amendment creates an individual right to possess a firearm unrelated to any military purpose, it also establishes a protectible liberty interest. And, although the Supreme Court has indicated that this privilege may be withdrawn from some groups of persons such as convicted felons, there is no basis for categorically depriving persons who are merely accused of certain crimes of the right to legal possession of a firearm

    In the ruling it states individuals have the right to bear arms. 

    It does protect laws that stop mentally ill or felons from obtaining guns.

     

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 7:07 PM ET #32

    If we look at the two sided government that we had since the government was formed in a constitution we can see the founding fathers themselves.

    The federalists pushed for a strong federal central government. 

    Felt that many individual and different fiscal and monetary policies led to economic struggles and national weakness. Favored central banking and central financial policies.

    In U.S. history, anti-federalists were those who opposed the development of a strong federal government and the ratification of the Constitution in 1788, preferring instead for power to remain in the hands of state and local governments.

    Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe were anti federalist who became republican Democrats. 

    Washington Hamilton and Adams were federalist who lived within the structured party.until it took the form of other parties. That challenged the democrats view of the day....

    Trust these guys change their mind.

    For instance Ben Franklin's option at the time of the Boston Tea party.

    LONDON, Feb. 2, 1774

    Gentlemen: I received the Honour of your Letter dated Decr. 21, containing a distinct Account of the Proceedings at Boston relative to the Tea imported there, and of the Circumstances that occasioned its Destruction. I communicated the same to Lord Dartmouth, with some other Advices of the same import. It is yet unknown what Measures will be taken here on the Occasion; but the Clamour against the Proceedings is high and general. I am truly concern’d, as I believe all considerate Men are with you, that there should seem to any a Necessity for carrying Matters to such Extremity, as, in a Dispute about Publick Rights, to destroy private Property; This (notwithstanding the Blame justly due to those who obstructed the Return of the Tea) it is impossible to justify with People so prejudiced in favour of the Power of Parliament to tax America, as most are in this Country.

    As the India Company however are not our Adversaries, and the offensive Measure of sending their Teas did not take its Rise with them, but was an Expedient of the Ministry to serve them and yet avoid a Repeal of the old Act, I cannot but wish & hope that before any compulsive Measures are thought of here, our General court will have shewn a Disposition to repair the Damage and make Compensation to the Company. This all our Friends here wish with me; and that if War is finally to be made upon us, which some threaten, an Act or violent injustice on our part, unrectified, may not give a colourable Pretence for it. A speedy Reparation will immediately set us right in the Opinion of all Europe. And tho’ the Mischief was the Act of Persons unknown, yet as probably they cannot be found or brought to answer for it, there seems to be some reasonable Claim on the Society at large in which it happened. Making voluntarily such Reparation can be no Dishonour to us or Prejudice to our Claim or Rights, since Parliament here has frequently considered in the same Light similar Cases; and only a few Years since, when a valuable Saw-mill, which had been destroyed by a Number of Persons supposed to be Sawyers, but unknown, a Grant was made out of the Publick Treasury of Two Thousand Pounds to the Owner as a Compensation—I hope in thus freely (and perhaps too forwardly) expressing my Sentiments & Wishes, I shall not give Offence to any. I am sure I mean well; being over with sincere Affection to my native Country, and great Respect to the Assembly and yourselves,

    Gentlemen, Your most obedient and most humble Servant

    B. FRANKLIN,

     

    Felt that states were free agents that should manage their own revenue and spend their money as they saw fit.

     

    Reply

    If we look at the two sided government that we had since the government was formed in a constitution we can see the founding fathers themselves.

    The federalists pushed for a strong federal central government. 

    Felt that many individual and different fiscal and monetary policies led to economic struggles and national weakness. Favored central banking and central financial policies.

    In U.S. history, anti-federalists were those who opposed the development of a strong federal government and the ratification of the Constitution in 1788, preferring instead for power to remain in the hands of state and local governments.

    Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe were anti federalist who became republican Democrats. 

    Washington Hamilton and Adams were federalist who lived within the structured party.until it took the form of other parties. That challenged the democrats view of the day....

    Trust these guys change their mind.

    For instance Ben Franklin's option at the time of the Boston Tea party.

    LONDON, Feb. 2, 1774

    Gentlemen: I received the Honour of your Letter dated Decr. 21, containing a distinct Account of the Proceedings at Boston relative to the Tea imported there, and of the Circumstances that occasioned its Destruction. I communicated the same to Lord Dartmouth, with some other Advices of the same import. It is yet unknown what Measures will be taken here on the Occasion; but the Clamour against the Proceedings is high and general. I am truly concern’d, as I believe all considerate Men are with you, that there should seem to any a Necessity for carrying Matters to such Extremity, as, in a Dispute about Publick Rights, to destroy private Property; This (notwithstanding the Blame justly due to those who obstructed the Return of the Tea) it is impossible to justify with People so prejudiced in favour of the Power of Parliament to tax America, as most are in this Country.

    As the India Company however are not our Adversaries, and the offensive Measure of sending their Teas did not take its Rise with them, but was an Expedient of the Ministry to serve them and yet avoid a Repeal of the old Act, I cannot but wish & hope that before any compulsive Measures are thought of here, our General court will have shewn a Disposition to repair the Damage and make Compensation to the Company. This all our Friends here wish with me; and that if War is finally to be made upon us, which some threaten, an Act or violent injustice on our part, unrectified, may not give a colourable Pretence for it. A speedy Reparation will immediately set us right in the Opinion of all Europe. And tho’ the Mischief was the Act of Persons unknown, yet as probably they cannot be found or brought to answer for it, there seems to be some reasonable Claim on the Society at large in which it happened. Making voluntarily such Reparation can be no Dishonour to us or Prejudice to our Claim or Rights, since Parliament here has frequently considered in the same Light similar Cases; and only a few Years since, when a valuable Saw-mill, which had been destroyed by a Number of Persons supposed to be Sawyers, but unknown, a Grant was made out of the Publick Treasury of Two Thousand Pounds to the Owner as a Compensation—I hope in thus freely (and perhaps too forwardly) expressing my Sentiments & Wishes, I shall not give Offence to any. I am sure I mean well; being over with sincere Affection to my native Country, and great Respect to the Assembly and yourselves,

    Gentlemen, Your most obedient and most humble Servant

    B. FRANKLIN,

     

    Felt that states were free agents that should manage their own revenue and spend their money as they saw fit.

     

     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 8:11 PM ET #33

    Illinois given an A.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    8 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    14.1

    Mall Rules
    Laws in 49 states allow specific citizens to apply for a license to carry a concealed weapon. Although Illinois does not, according to USA carry. Shopping Malls are often private property. What this means is Malls can make their own rules as to whether or not a person can conceal carry on the mall property.

    If malls do not allow citizens to conceal carry on the property, this is often communicated to people through signs in the parking lot or signs posted around the property.

    Equals shootings at malls. 

     

    Reply

    Illinois given an A.

    GUN SAFETY STRENGTH RANK
    8 out of 50
    GUN DEATH RATE RANK
    27 out of 50
    GUN DEATHS PER 100K
    14.1

    Mall Rules
    Laws in 49 states allow specific citizens to apply for a license to carry a concealed weapon. Although Illinois does not, according to USA carry. Shopping Malls are often private property. What this means is Malls can make their own rules as to whether or not a person can conceal carry on the mall property.

    If malls do not allow citizens to conceal carry on the property, this is often communicated to people through signs in the parking lot or signs posted around the property.

    Equals shootings at malls. 

     

     
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2015
    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Jul. 25, 2022 - 8:35 PM ET #34

    Illinois mall shootings

    Greenwood Park Mall shooting....

    Or oak brook center.

     

    Watch video on YouTube
    1:58
    Oakbrook Center mall shooting: Suspects held on $1M bond
    4.2K views6 months ago
    YouTubeFOX 32 Chicago

    Or 

    Buffalo....

    Here what 

    Macy’s ($24.9 billion)

    Headquarters: Cincinnati

    Macy’s does not ban customers from bringing guns into its stores; instead, it leaves that decision to state and local jurisdictions or the shopping mall where the store is located.

    “The safety and security of our customers and colleagues is Macy’s highest priority. We comply with all applicable state and local firearms laws and regulations, in addition to mall regulations,” a Macy’s spokesperson told The Hill.

    No. 16 TJX Companies ($29.59 billion)

    Headquarters: Framingham, Mass.

    TJX Companies, the parent company of TJ Maxx, Marshalls and HomeGoods, does not have a ban on carrying guns in its stores.

    “We appreciate the seriousness of this issue and care deeply about the safety of our Associates and customers,” TJX told The Hill in a statement. “Associate and customer safety is, and always will be, a top priority. We do not sell firearms or ammunition in any of our stores and follow federal, state, and local laws regarding the carrying of firearms which we have done for many years.”

    Who bans guns....

    The list of shootings in gun free zones would need volumes to address the last decade.....

    Reply

    Illinois mall shootings

    Greenwood Park Mall shooting....

    Or oak brook center.

     

    Watch video on YouTube
    1:58
    Oakbrook Center mall shooting: Suspects held on $1M bond
    4.2K views6 months ago
    YouTubeFOX 32 Chicago

    Or 

    Buffalo....

    Here what 

    Macy’s ($24.9 billion)

    Headquarters: Cincinnati

    Macy’s does not ban customers from bringing guns into its stores; instead, it leaves that decision to state and local jurisdictions or the shopping mall where the store is located.

    “The safety and security of our customers and colleagues is Macy’s highest priority. We comply with all applicable state and local firearms laws and regulations, in addition to mall regulations,” a Macy’s spokesperson told The Hill.

    No. 16 TJX Companies ($29.59 billion)

    Headquarters: Framingham, Mass.

    TJX Companies, the parent company of TJ Maxx, Marshalls and HomeGoods, does not have a ban on carrying guns in its stores.

    “We appreciate the seriousness of this issue and care deeply about the safety of our Associates and customers,” TJX told The Hill in a statement. “Associate and customer safety is, and always will be, a top priority. We do not sell firearms or ammunition in any of our stores and follow federal, state, and local laws regarding the carrying of firearms which we have done for many years.”

    Who bans guns....

    The list of shootings in gun free zones would need volumes to address the last decade.....

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