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    All Forums | Politics

    Get Doged by Trump

    «First Previous 123
    fubah2
    cd329
    Europa
    thirdperson
    kcblitzkrieg
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 400
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    «First Previous 123
     
    fubah2
    fubah2
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    Joined: Aug, 2012
    Posts: 54105
    Posted: Mar. 13, 2025 - 11:35 PM ET #51

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa: Quote Originally Posted by cd329: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-deports-10-old-girl-192925298.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   scumbag trump not correct , as usual  the parents were deported and they chose to take the girl with them back to Mexico    

     

    yeah because they wouldnt let the parents stay.  you magas will try to make trump look good no matter what he does. Youre all worshiping a false God.  I been raised catholic and haved that way all my life and lately I really dont believe there is a God, but am hoping am wrong because trump and all his loyal sheep followers will pay the price in hell, when God sends all the evil there.  Trump, phony religious hypocrites and minions wont pay the price on earth, so hell will really be there only punishment, but with their luck there is no heaven or hell so they will all get off again. Karmas a bitch barbo   Totally heartless move by trumpy.

    @cd329

    Truth.  But sad.

    Some say those who oppose MAGA fascism are people who worship SATAN an_speechless

     

    But obviously that could not be true at any time since

    we would NEVER worship trump under any circumstance! an_lightening

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa: Quote Originally Posted by cd329: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-deports-10-old-girl-192925298.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   scumbag trump not correct , as usual  the parents were deported and they chose to take the girl with them back to Mexico    

     

    yeah because they wouldnt let the parents stay.  you magas will try to make trump look good no matter what he does. Youre all worshiping a false God.  I been raised catholic and haved that way all my life and lately I really dont believe there is a God, but am hoping am wrong because trump and all his loyal sheep followers will pay the price in hell, when God sends all the evil there.  Trump, phony religious hypocrites and minions wont pay the price on earth, so hell will really be there only punishment, but with their luck there is no heaven or hell so they will all get off again. Karmas a bitch barbo   Totally heartless move by trumpy.

    @cd329

    Truth.  But sad.

    Some say those who oppose MAGA fascism are people who worship SATAN an_speechless

     

    But obviously that could not be true at any time since

    we would NEVER worship trump under any circumstance! an_lightening

     
    cd329
    cd329
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    Posts: 23797
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 12:03 AM ET #52

    Quote Originally Posted by fubah2:

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329: Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa: Quote Originally Posted by cd329: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-deports-10-old-girl-192925298.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   scumbag trump not correct , as usual  the parents were deported and they chose to take the girl with them back to Mexico       yeah because they wouldnt let the parents stay.  you magas will try to make trump look good no matter what he does. Youre all worshiping a false God.  I been raised catholic and haved that way all my life and lately I really dont believe there is a God, but am hoping am wrong because trump and all his loyal sheep followers will pay the price in hell, when God sends all the evil there.  Trump, phony religious hypocrites and minions wont pay the price on earth, so hell will really be there only punishment, but with their luck there is no heaven or hell so they will all get off again. Karmas a bitch barbo   Totally heartless move by trumpy. @cd329 Truth.  But sad. Some say those who oppose MAGA fascism are people who worship SATAN   But obviously that could not be true at any time since we would NEVER worship trump under any circumstance!

     

    Thats how insane magas truly are.  Think about how magas keep voting against their own self interests, believing that someday they might be invited into the rich persons house,loll.

    I have family members and very good friends that i have known for over 45 years and i just cant be around them anymore, because of their vile nature and lack of just plain human decency anymore. It really is like they have been kidnapped into a cult. All thru the years we didnt always agree on things, but that never once interfered in our friendships.  Not until some switch was flipped inside them and trump hijacked their minds and started acting just like him.  Maybe the human race is reaching its expiration date.  Truth be told i watch both types of news, i do that so that i dont just listen to 1 side.  I want to hear both sides and then find where the truth really is.  I would bet any amount of money not many magas even know where the other channels are and wouldnt watch anyways.   Its very easy to see what our politicians cast votes on and not what they just talk to us about, cause lots of times its different.

    Our country isnt perfect, but its still the best in the world.  To see how we got people in there, just wanting to tear it down is heart breaking. 

    An everytime i watch the holy rollers talk, all i see is a bunch of phony hypocrites.  Sure hope God asks all these people someday, why they soul their souls to a soulless man

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by fubah2:

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329: Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa: Quote Originally Posted by cd329: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-deports-10-old-girl-192925298.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   scumbag trump not correct , as usual  the parents were deported and they chose to take the girl with them back to Mexico       yeah because they wouldnt let the parents stay.  you magas will try to make trump look good no matter what he does. Youre all worshiping a false God.  I been raised catholic and haved that way all my life and lately I really dont believe there is a God, but am hoping am wrong because trump and all his loyal sheep followers will pay the price in hell, when God sends all the evil there.  Trump, phony religious hypocrites and minions wont pay the price on earth, so hell will really be there only punishment, but with their luck there is no heaven or hell so they will all get off again. Karmas a bitch barbo   Totally heartless move by trumpy. @cd329 Truth.  But sad. Some say those who oppose MAGA fascism are people who worship SATAN   But obviously that could not be true at any time since we would NEVER worship trump under any circumstance!

     

    Thats how insane magas truly are.  Think about how magas keep voting against their own self interests, believing that someday they might be invited into the rich persons house,loll.

    I have family members and very good friends that i have known for over 45 years and i just cant be around them anymore, because of their vile nature and lack of just plain human decency anymore. It really is like they have been kidnapped into a cult. All thru the years we didnt always agree on things, but that never once interfered in our friendships.  Not until some switch was flipped inside them and trump hijacked their minds and started acting just like him.  Maybe the human race is reaching its expiration date.  Truth be told i watch both types of news, i do that so that i dont just listen to 1 side.  I want to hear both sides and then find where the truth really is.  I would bet any amount of money not many magas even know where the other channels are and wouldnt watch anyways.   Its very easy to see what our politicians cast votes on and not what they just talk to us about, cause lots of times its different.

    Our country isnt perfect, but its still the best in the world.  To see how we got people in there, just wanting to tear it down is heart breaking. 

    An everytime i watch the holy rollers talk, all i see is a bunch of phony hypocrites.  Sure hope God asks all these people someday, why they soul their souls to a soulless man

     
    Europa
    Europa
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    Joined: Dec, 2003
    Posts: 42771
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 2:00 AM ET #53

    Here is the data for the "12 Month-ending Provisional Number and Percent Change of Drug Overdose Deaths in United States" 

    12 month ending period: February 2017 (The start of Trump's 1st Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 66189 

    12 month ending period: January 2021 (The end of Trump's 1st Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 94788

    Drug over use death rate: 43.2% rise during Trump's 1st Administration.

    12 month ending period: February 2021 (The start of Biden's Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 96118

    12 month ending period: October 2024 (The last month of the data posted)

    Reported number of deaths: 82020

    During this period (under Biden's Administration), drug overdose death rate has decreased by 14.7%.*

    *CDC

    Fact is Pres. Biden's administration has done much better in terms of saving more Americans from drug overdose deaths. 

    Reply

    Here is the data for the "12 Month-ending Provisional Number and Percent Change of Drug Overdose Deaths in United States" 

    12 month ending period: February 2017 (The start of Trump's 1st Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 66189 

    12 month ending period: January 2021 (The end of Trump's 1st Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 94788

    Drug over use death rate: 43.2% rise during Trump's 1st Administration.

    12 month ending period: February 2021 (The start of Biden's Administration)

    Reported number of deaths: 96118

    12 month ending period: October 2024 (The last month of the data posted)

    Reported number of deaths: 82020

    During this period (under Biden's Administration), drug overdose death rate has decreased by 14.7%.*

    *CDC

    Fact is Pres. Biden's administration has done much better in terms of saving more Americans from drug overdose deaths. 

     
    thirdperson
    thirdperson
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2005
    Posts: 9493
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 4:49 AM ET #54

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa:

    100s of thousands Americans killed by fentanyl under your Party's open border policies , or the countless victims of criminal illegals let into the USA under Harris / Biden 

    Trump promotes myth of immigrant crime wave to appeal to the ignorance and prejudice of voters. Europa shows CDC data confirming fewer fentanyl deaths under Biden administration.  Increased immigration doesn't increase US crime rates because 95% of crimes are committed by native born Americans.  95% of convicted drug traffickers are US citizens who are less likely to be stopped at border.  Texas data shows that immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes. 

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbarossa:

    100s of thousands Americans killed by fentanyl under your Party's open border policies , or the countless victims of criminal illegals let into the USA under Harris / Biden 

    Trump promotes myth of immigrant crime wave to appeal to the ignorance and prejudice of voters. Europa shows CDC data confirming fewer fentanyl deaths under Biden administration.  Increased immigration doesn't increase US crime rates because 95% of crimes are committed by native born Americans.  95% of convicted drug traffickers are US citizens who are less likely to be stopped at border.  Texas data shows that immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes. 

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Joined: Jan, 2008
    Posts: 8009
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 9:40 AM ET #55

    @wallstreetcappers

     Yes, I know.  We have had many a discussion on the Russia / Ukraine conflict and I know you are very based in your assessment....which is why I made the humorous comment as the odds of you having a Putin poster on the wall are equal to having a MAGA Trump poster next to it.  

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    @wallstreetcappers

     Yes, I know.  We have had many a discussion on the Russia / Ukraine conflict and I know you are very based in your assessment....which is why I made the humorous comment as the odds of you having a Putin poster on the wall are equal to having a MAGA Trump poster next to it.  

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posts: 8009
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 9:42 AM ET #56

    @Raiders22

     Not so, no.  Only credit for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s.  Other than that, no.  

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    @Raiders22

     Not so, no.  Only credit for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s.  Other than that, no.  

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 9:55 AM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    @kcblitzkrieg  I dont think Trump has an economic plan, he did not previously and without ZIRP I would say his term was very top heavy and uneventful. We added to the deficit under Trump even with the most easy money FED policy in decades they still ramped up debt and gave massive handouts to wealthy corps and higher earners. My taxes again this year were brutal since the eliminated the personal exemptions the net change in the standard deduction was little and then the deductions removed in my case has impacted my tax liability every single year more than any time in my past as an adult. I do not see a strong economic plan from Trump outside of wearing a hat and claiming victory on day 1 that he is famous for. What I do see is dramatic and immediate project 2025 initiatives and retaliatory actions against those Trump felt harmed him, that is not a leader or someone with a plan it is partisan retribution and not much else. His staff is a joke and you cant just say drain the swamp by bringing in talk show hosts and people who paid you money and accolades as a way of directing this country.  Tariffs are for your enemy they are not the foundation of an economic policy or a way to truly be protectionist and especially if those tariffs are here and there not comprehensive and not monitored or followed through with. For example this Mexico car scam, yeah I am in support of charging corps for offshoring but are we charging corps who offshore raw goods or just production? If you look at vehicles made here or Mexico or Canada, the percentage of parts and components made in the US is very little and yet this is allowed and not tariffed so is this approach really valuable and serving to American jobs and companies? I would say no, not at all.

     

    I take the bolded as your "answers" but I guess I was thinking you'd address more specifically the "flim fam contentions".  No worries though.  

    The only important question is "do you think the US debt path is sustainable?"  Yes...why?  No....what would you do?  

     

    I'm willing to take the wait and see approach here and see what happens, just as I did with the last administration and any other administration first starting out.  My biggest contention is simple. 

    Any "short term pain", no matter how deep, will be absolutely worthless in the long term if spending isn't reduced and deficit reduction.  It will be all for naught and if that happens I'll be the biggest critic.  Considering the bill that is about to get passed, they are not off to a start that exactly instills confidence.....I do not have "high hopes".  

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    @kcblitzkrieg  I dont think Trump has an economic plan, he did not previously and without ZIRP I would say his term was very top heavy and uneventful. We added to the deficit under Trump even with the most easy money FED policy in decades they still ramped up debt and gave massive handouts to wealthy corps and higher earners. My taxes again this year were brutal since the eliminated the personal exemptions the net change in the standard deduction was little and then the deductions removed in my case has impacted my tax liability every single year more than any time in my past as an adult. I do not see a strong economic plan from Trump outside of wearing a hat and claiming victory on day 1 that he is famous for. What I do see is dramatic and immediate project 2025 initiatives and retaliatory actions against those Trump felt harmed him, that is not a leader or someone with a plan it is partisan retribution and not much else. His staff is a joke and you cant just say drain the swamp by bringing in talk show hosts and people who paid you money and accolades as a way of directing this country.  Tariffs are for your enemy they are not the foundation of an economic policy or a way to truly be protectionist and especially if those tariffs are here and there not comprehensive and not monitored or followed through with. For example this Mexico car scam, yeah I am in support of charging corps for offshoring but are we charging corps who offshore raw goods or just production? If you look at vehicles made here or Mexico or Canada, the percentage of parts and components made in the US is very little and yet this is allowed and not tariffed so is this approach really valuable and serving to American jobs and companies? I would say no, not at all.

     

    I take the bolded as your "answers" but I guess I was thinking you'd address more specifically the "flim fam contentions".  No worries though.  

    The only important question is "do you think the US debt path is sustainable?"  Yes...why?  No....what would you do?  

     

    I'm willing to take the wait and see approach here and see what happens, just as I did with the last administration and any other administration first starting out.  My biggest contention is simple. 

    Any "short term pain", no matter how deep, will be absolutely worthless in the long term if spending isn't reduced and deficit reduction.  It will be all for naught and if that happens I'll be the biggest critic.  Considering the bill that is about to get passed, they are not off to a start that exactly instills confidence.....I do not have "high hopes".  

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 11:41 AM ET #58

    @kcblitzkrieg

     

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    @Raiders22  Not so, no.  Only credit for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s.  Other than that, no.

    Even that should not be lauded.  Evidence shows that inflation had topped out and was prepared to come down.  

    You can draw a direct line to his idealogical policy of raising rates to the financial crisis of 2008 because it set the banks up for failure with the deregulatory environment that led to it.  You can see this in how he interpreted the cause of the crisis when he talked about it.  

    Not to mention his policies led directly to not one, but two recessions.

    You can very easily make the case that he set the middle class back for many years.  

    It is akin to all of the folks that 'support' FDR's policies and credit him, even though evidence shows he actually worsened and extended the depression.

    But nowadays even conservative economists tend to absolve him and give him far more credit than is deserved.

    You can also argue that he set the stage for the way FED chairs have set policy since. They are more concerned with the part of the 'dual mandate' that focuses on prices and less on employment.

    He simply underestimated the effect the oil situation had on inflation at that time and that those prices had already peaked.

    The philosophy of 'killing the economy to save it' was very damaging to farmers and agriculture and thus, much of Latin America felt the effects of his policies.  He also set USA manufacturing back a good bit as well.  You can make the case that his policies led directly to the dollar surging so much that it almost 'forced' USA companies to default to the advantage that foreign countries now had.

    Even once he was out of office he continued to double down on wanting zero inflation.  No normal economist supports this, because if you are at zero the only way to adjust is with deflation.

    Not to say 'Tall Paul' was all bad.  He was a good, humble, miserly man with great integrity.

    I am simply saying he was misguided and dogmatically wrong on the main issue he gets 'credit' for.

    You can make the case that if he had not handled it the way he did the policies of Reagan that led to a booming economy for the next 30 years would have kicked in even earlier.

    So, if you say you 'credit him for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s", I think it should looked at in its entirety.

    Yes, he had the fortitude to raise rates and stick with his conviction.  But he was simply wrong in doing so.  So, I am not sure how much 'credit' should be given to someone for 'having the balls' to be wrong and double down on it.

    peace_5

    Reply

    @kcblitzkrieg

     

    Quote Originally Posted by kcblitzkrieg:

    @Raiders22  Not so, no.  Only credit for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s.  Other than that, no.

    Even that should not be lauded.  Evidence shows that inflation had topped out and was prepared to come down.  

    You can draw a direct line to his idealogical policy of raising rates to the financial crisis of 2008 because it set the banks up for failure with the deregulatory environment that led to it.  You can see this in how he interpreted the cause of the crisis when he talked about it.  

    Not to mention his policies led directly to not one, but two recessions.

    You can very easily make the case that he set the middle class back for many years.  

    It is akin to all of the folks that 'support' FDR's policies and credit him, even though evidence shows he actually worsened and extended the depression.

    But nowadays even conservative economists tend to absolve him and give him far more credit than is deserved.

    You can also argue that he set the stage for the way FED chairs have set policy since. They are more concerned with the part of the 'dual mandate' that focuses on prices and less on employment.

    He simply underestimated the effect the oil situation had on inflation at that time and that those prices had already peaked.

    The philosophy of 'killing the economy to save it' was very damaging to farmers and agriculture and thus, much of Latin America felt the effects of his policies.  He also set USA manufacturing back a good bit as well.  You can make the case that his policies led directly to the dollar surging so much that it almost 'forced' USA companies to default to the advantage that foreign countries now had.

    Even once he was out of office he continued to double down on wanting zero inflation.  No normal economist supports this, because if you are at zero the only way to adjust is with deflation.

    Not to say 'Tall Paul' was all bad.  He was a good, humble, miserly man with great integrity.

    I am simply saying he was misguided and dogmatically wrong on the main issue he gets 'credit' for.

    You can make the case that if he had not handled it the way he did the policies of Reagan that led to a booming economy for the next 30 years would have kicked in even earlier.

    So, if you say you 'credit him for having the balls to raise rates as high as 20% to combat the rampant inflation of the 70s", I think it should looked at in its entirety.

    Yes, he had the fortitude to raise rates and stick with his conviction.  But he was simply wrong in doing so.  So, I am not sure how much 'credit' should be given to someone for 'having the balls' to be wrong and double down on it.

    peace_5

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 12:09 PM ET #59

    Volcker > Private equity JPOW 

    I'm giving Volcker credit for his contributions during his time.  Did he push his policy too far preventing the Reagan turnaround from beginning earlier?  I won't argue it.  I'm not anointing him a savior by any means.  As Wally says, FED tools are "blunt tools" and that is an apt description.  He did what needed to be done at the time peace_5

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    Volcker > Private equity JPOW 

    I'm giving Volcker credit for his contributions during his time.  Did he push his policy too far preventing the Reagan turnaround from beginning earlier?  I won't argue it.  I'm not anointing him a savior by any means.  As Wally says, FED tools are "blunt tools" and that is an apt description.  He did what needed to be done at the time peace_5

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 12:35 PM ET #60

    @kcblitzkrieg

     He did what needed to be done at the time

    This is the part I disagree with.  He thought he did and folks overly credit him is my point.

    peace_5

    Reply

    @kcblitzkrieg

     He did what needed to be done at the time

    This is the part I disagree with.  He thought he did and folks overly credit him is my point.

    peace_5

     
    User854910
    User854910
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    Posts: 4581
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 12:43 PM ET #61

    Post Deleted
    Don't let the book set the number
    Reply
    Post Deleted
     
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 1:08 PM ET #62

    @Raiders22

     so he shouldn't have raised rates in an hyperinflationary environment ??  

     I wasn't alive during that time period.....what are you suggesting was the alternative?  

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    @Raiders22

     so he shouldn't have raised rates in an hyperinflationary environment ??  

     I wasn't alive during that time period.....what are you suggesting was the alternative?  

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 1:15 PM ET #63

    @unplucked_gem

     yeah I've seen it, its an classic meme.  I prefer the Xi / Putin phone call "bro" meme "hold on I got a line" / Kim Jong, when aptly use in conjunction with stupid shit our Western leaders do / have done.  "and they call us dictators".  Lots of use during the communist led covid shutdown era peace_5

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    @unplucked_gem

     yeah I've seen it, its an classic meme.  I prefer the Xi / Putin phone call "bro" meme "hold on I got a line" / Kim Jong, when aptly use in conjunction with stupid shit our Western leaders do / have done.  "and they call us dictators".  Lots of use during the communist led covid shutdown era peace_5

     
    spockgato
    spockgato
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    Posts: 15326
    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 2:40 PM ET #64

    They told me what to do ………and they forced me to compromise my body ……..like some kind of drugged out wunderkind person being pimped on the strip with no apologies …….given afterwards when it was all said and done …….I feel used , betrayed , and abused , plus a little fucked .

    covid betrayal by the communist led liberal party peace_5

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
    Reply

    They told me what to do ………and they forced me to compromise my body ……..like some kind of drugged out wunderkind person being pimped on the strip with no apologies …….given afterwards when it was all said and done …….I feel used , betrayed , and abused , plus a little fucked .

    covid betrayal by the communist led liberal party peace_5

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 3:07 PM ET #65

    @kcblitzkrieg

    Oil issues drove the inflation. By mid-1979, when he came in, this had largely started to alleviate for various reasons.

    Then he starts jacking up interest rates, capping liquidity, and, thus, causing tremendous pain to the folks and companies and banks.

    The unintended consequences that demoralized the folks and the workforce, he then tried to swerve responsibility for it by claiming it was ‘market forces’ at play.

    You can also notice his refusal for direct credit regulation, which actually harkened back to an early 1950s stance the FED had.

    Employment shot up, and the unions suffered. Whether or not unions were still needed then or now is another topic. But his loathing of organized labor and declaring that the standard of living for Americans was too high and needed to decline both further deteriorated the American worker’s psyche and morals. 

    You now see the FED loving to follow this lead of ‘Volcker Shock’ and not caring about the social harms to the worker when it comes to the topic of inflation.

    Even when the farmers rode their tractors into Washington and the unions complained and the builders sent 2x4s to politicians and auto dealers sent keys in little coffins to them, he would not relent, as unemployment rose. Then the politicians pressured him into lowering the rates.

    Then just when the recession was ending in mid-summer, he decided to start in on inflation again. Because people now doubted his and the FED's ability to fix it, he raised it all the way up to 20%.

    The worst recession since WWII got underway. Until well into 1983, inflation finally gets to around 3%.

    That is the case that some of us were pointing to in this last inflation time. Stick to it, have a target, and do it fast and early. Do not prolong it and worsen it like Volcker did by not following through and then doubling down. That is exactly what the FED did the last time; they reacted too late and too little. They do this going in and coming out of high inflationary times. To his ‘credit,’ Volcker did advocate bigger jumps than we see nowadays.

     

    So, that is the case for not being wobbly.

     

    Reply

    @kcblitzkrieg

    Oil issues drove the inflation. By mid-1979, when he came in, this had largely started to alleviate for various reasons.

    Then he starts jacking up interest rates, capping liquidity, and, thus, causing tremendous pain to the folks and companies and banks.

    The unintended consequences that demoralized the folks and the workforce, he then tried to swerve responsibility for it by claiming it was ‘market forces’ at play.

    You can also notice his refusal for direct credit regulation, which actually harkened back to an early 1950s stance the FED had.

    Employment shot up, and the unions suffered. Whether or not unions were still needed then or now is another topic. But his loathing of organized labor and declaring that the standard of living for Americans was too high and needed to decline both further deteriorated the American worker’s psyche and morals. 

    You now see the FED loving to follow this lead of ‘Volcker Shock’ and not caring about the social harms to the worker when it comes to the topic of inflation.

    Even when the farmers rode their tractors into Washington and the unions complained and the builders sent 2x4s to politicians and auto dealers sent keys in little coffins to them, he would not relent, as unemployment rose. Then the politicians pressured him into lowering the rates.

    Then just when the recession was ending in mid-summer, he decided to start in on inflation again. Because people now doubted his and the FED's ability to fix it, he raised it all the way up to 20%.

    The worst recession since WWII got underway. Until well into 1983, inflation finally gets to around 3%.

    That is the case that some of us were pointing to in this last inflation time. Stick to it, have a target, and do it fast and early. Do not prolong it and worsen it like Volcker did by not following through and then doubling down. That is exactly what the FED did the last time; they reacted too late and too little. They do this going in and coming out of high inflationary times. To his ‘credit,’ Volcker did advocate bigger jumps than we see nowadays.

     

    So, that is the case for not being wobbly.

     

     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 3:07 PM ET #66

    @kcblitzkrieg 

    The case for not interfering at all is simple: the signs were there that things were easing up and had peaked.

    Just because something worsens and eventually recovers does not mean what was done was needed to make it recover. Again, just as with FDR and the depression, the case can be made he unnecessarily worsened and lengthened a bad situation that was recovering. 

    The whole ‘economic theory’ of raising rates to lower inflation ‘forces’ a recession has also been revisited in the last few years with the healthy economy.

    So, is it true that inflation goes up, interest rates get raised, the economy slows, inflation comes down, and then a recession follows? Therefore, if the economy continues to boom, you say it was the interest rates; but if a recession happens, you can also say it was the interest rates.

    Whether it is a chain reaction or is it ‘psychological’ messaging to the folks and, hence, the markets.

    So, it is not very easy to pin inflation down. When one side says FDR made the recovery quicker or Volcker’s increases lowered inflation quicker, the other side easily can make a very good case that the exact opposite is true.

    Sometimes this is due to hindsight, of course.

     

    You can, on the other side, say he should have done nothing.

    The FED’s contention is always that they cannot affect the supply side as much as the demand side on inflation. This simply is not true. They control the supply of credit, and that, for sure, affects the supply side of the economy.

    So the policy does not also make sound economical sense. If the cost of capital is raised, you essentially are increasing prices because you are restraining production.

    You can look at a chart during these times of CPI and see this. It was coming down already. Then it exploded.

    So, as one guy some years ago wrote in part, “Volcker’s policies created the inflation he claimed to have destroyed. And yet, he is heralded as this hero in Wall Street folklore.”

    Like he asked, “But was Volcker in fact an arsonist masquerading as a firefighter?”

    Basically three choices: 1) Do what he did (up and down and back up) to get two recessions (one that was very bad); 2) stick with his original plan and not relent; 3) not fool with it at that time because the signs were there that it had peaked and was poised to ease off. 

    I come down on the side of number 3. 

    Longer answer than you wanted, I know. But it could have and should have been even longer and more detailed.

    peace_5

    Reply

    @kcblitzkrieg 

    The case for not interfering at all is simple: the signs were there that things were easing up and had peaked.

    Just because something worsens and eventually recovers does not mean what was done was needed to make it recover. Again, just as with FDR and the depression, the case can be made he unnecessarily worsened and lengthened a bad situation that was recovering. 

    The whole ‘economic theory’ of raising rates to lower inflation ‘forces’ a recession has also been revisited in the last few years with the healthy economy.

    So, is it true that inflation goes up, interest rates get raised, the economy slows, inflation comes down, and then a recession follows? Therefore, if the economy continues to boom, you say it was the interest rates; but if a recession happens, you can also say it was the interest rates.

    Whether it is a chain reaction or is it ‘psychological’ messaging to the folks and, hence, the markets.

    So, it is not very easy to pin inflation down. When one side says FDR made the recovery quicker or Volcker’s increases lowered inflation quicker, the other side easily can make a very good case that the exact opposite is true.

    Sometimes this is due to hindsight, of course.

     

    You can, on the other side, say he should have done nothing.

    The FED’s contention is always that they cannot affect the supply side as much as the demand side on inflation. This simply is not true. They control the supply of credit, and that, for sure, affects the supply side of the economy.

    So the policy does not also make sound economical sense. If the cost of capital is raised, you essentially are increasing prices because you are restraining production.

    You can look at a chart during these times of CPI and see this. It was coming down already. Then it exploded.

    So, as one guy some years ago wrote in part, “Volcker’s policies created the inflation he claimed to have destroyed. And yet, he is heralded as this hero in Wall Street folklore.”

    Like he asked, “But was Volcker in fact an arsonist masquerading as a firefighter?”

    Basically three choices: 1) Do what he did (up and down and back up) to get two recessions (one that was very bad); 2) stick with his original plan and not relent; 3) not fool with it at that time because the signs were there that it had peaked and was poised to ease off. 

    I come down on the side of number 3. 

    Longer answer than you wanted, I know. But it could have and should have been even longer and more detailed.

    peace_5

     
     
    Rush51
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    Posted: Mar. 14, 2025 - 4:35 PM ET #67

    [Quote: Originally Posted by cd329]Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose: Voter remorse for sure.  The fox is in the hen house.  It’s a head-scratcher how Southern Republicans can consistently vote against their own interests.  “You mean Trump lied to us???”    They have a $75K household income yet vote for billionaires.  Like the late, great, comedian George Carlin used to say, “it’s a big club and you’re not in it!!! excellent post Goose am 62 and still have not been able to figure out why people keep voting against their own self interests. Its like they love the punishment or they think they will be a member of the rich club if they vote for these rich con artists[/Quote]

    You mean like paying lower income taxes ?  Yeah, that was Trump that signed that piece of legislation into law that ended up helping lowering taxes and helping "lower-income, middle-income" workers more than higher wage-earners... I know you liberals hate to see the facts get in the way of your talking points.. so, no.  the tax cuts weren't a giveaway to the rich.   

    I sometimes wonder if you liberals had all your facts right if you would vote Republican..  Lol.  

    Reply

    [Quote: Originally Posted by cd329]Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose: Voter remorse for sure.  The fox is in the hen house.  It’s a head-scratcher how Southern Republicans can consistently vote against their own interests.  “You mean Trump lied to us???”    They have a $75K household income yet vote for billionaires.  Like the late, great, comedian George Carlin used to say, “it’s a big club and you’re not in it!!! excellent post Goose am 62 and still have not been able to figure out why people keep voting against their own self interests. Its like they love the punishment or they think they will be a member of the rich club if they vote for these rich con artists[/Quote]

    You mean like paying lower income taxes ?  Yeah, that was Trump that signed that piece of legislation into law that ended up helping lowering taxes and helping "lower-income, middle-income" workers more than higher wage-earners... I know you liberals hate to see the facts get in the way of your talking points.. so, no.  the tax cuts weren't a giveaway to the rich.   

    I sometimes wonder if you liberals had all your facts right if you would vote Republican..  Lol.  

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