Don't say I didn't tell you so.

Question

Alas, it is the one thing in the world that the 'credible hulk' is on record for agreeing with me on.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/the-bitter-lesson-from-seattles-minimum-wage-hike/

...Yet, such foolishness seems to have infected the Democratic Party, with its now near-ubiquitous "Fight For $15" campaign. As a piece in IBD highlighted right after the Democratic Party Convention's call for a massive hike in the minimum wage, forcing sharply higher wages on troubled local economies where the median wage is low can have a devastating effect.

"The most absurd plank to appear in either party's platform this year is the Democrats' call to 'raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour over time and index it,' " wrote Oren Cass, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of "Is A $15 Federal Minimum Wage Appropriate?" "It is policy written for the nation's very wealthiest enclaves, but incoherent for economically distressed regions."

The tragic irony of this is that those who are worst hurt by a higher minimum wage are those with little education or training, mostly minorities, immigrants and the young. They get priced right out of the labor market by the well-meaning nanny-staters who want to impose a one-size-fits-all minimum wage on the entire country — regardless of the damage it does...

bowlslit · Answer

Alas, it is the one thing in the world that the 'credible hulk' is on record for agreeing with me on.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/the-bitter-lesson-from-seattles-minimum-wage-hike/

...Yet, such foolishness seems to have infected the Democratic Party, with its now near-ubiquitous "Fight For $15" campaign. As a piece in IBD highlighted right after the Democratic Party Convention's call for a massive hike in the minimum wage, forcing sharply higher wages on troubled local economies where the median wage is low can have a devastating effect.

"The most absurd plank to appear in either party's platform this year is the Democrats' call to 'raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour over time and index it,' " wrote Oren Cass, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of "Is A $15 Federal Minimum Wage Appropriate?" "It is policy written for the nation's very wealthiest enclaves, but incoherent for economically distressed regions."

The tragic irony of this is that those who are worst hurt by a higher minimum wage are those with little education or training, mostly minorities, immigrants and the young. They get priced right out of the labor market by the well-meaning nanny-staters who want to impose a one-size-fits-all minimum wage on the entire country — regardless of the damage it does...

sundance · Answer

Hard to understand why Americans let Lefties who throw baseballs like girls, cross their legs like women and who have feminine golf swings lead us into economic oblivion. Mind boggler.

Witness John Kerry and Barrack Hussein Obama. Not sure on Tim Kaine

zamigo6 · Answer

It&#x27;s all part of clinging onto a system that was designed to fail (aka its succeeding). Until people realize that it wasn&#x27;t designed to serve them they will stop playing these games, but as long as a controlled and ridiculous opposition like this one is proposed, people will continue to fight the good fight without ever realizing that its never going to happen with this system. It&#x27;s well-designed and well-orchestrated, and waking up to the reality of it is the only way out, which appears unlikely. There are nets being cast on all sides with the intention of catching good intentions and rendering them useless...interesting article thanks for sharing

djbrow · Answer

Did you find this website be googling "Hillary and body count?"

Here is an actually unbiased article on it, which discusses both the pros and cons.

You should try to examine things from such a perspective instead of always thinking what the right wing tells you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/10/so-far-the-seattle-minimum-wage-increase-is-doing-what-its-supposed-to-do/?utm_term=.b670be6bd66f

bowlslit · Answer

Were your ears burning?Does this mean you have flip flopped on your min wage stance?

djbrow · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by bowlslit] &#xD;&#xA;&#xD;&#xA;Were your ears burning?&#xD;&#xA;&#xD;&#xA;Does this mean you have flip flopped on your min wage stance?&#xD;&#xA;[/Quote]&#xD;&#xA;Well played. &#xD;&#xA;My problem with the minimum wage is the clear liberal appeasement. A $1-$2 increase effectively does nothing unless you are going to also institute tax changes. &#xD;&#xA;Seattle&#x27;s is a bit different, but with a bigger problem. How do you implement such a change without simultaneously enacted some of Trump&#x27;s protectionism? In other words, you increase the wage, then give a company a tax break for closing its doors, moving its plant to Mexico, paying nothing for labor, and selling the product back to the US absent a tariff?&#xD;&#xA;With the advent of purchasing on the internet too, seems like a bad combination all around.

bowlslit · Answer

[Quote: Originally Posted by djbrow]  &#xD;&#xA;Well played. &#xD;&#xA;My problem with the minimum wage is the clear liberal appeasement. A $1-$2 increase effectively does nothing unless you are going to also institute tax changes. &#xD;&#xA;Seattle&#x27;s is a bit different, but with a bigger problem. How do you implement such a change without simultaneously enacted some of Trump&#x27;s protectionism? In other words, you increase the wage, then give a company a tax break for closing its doors, moving its plant to Mexico, paying nothing for labor, and selling the product back to the US absent a tariff?&#xD;&#xA;With the advent of purchasing on the internet too, seems like a bad combination all around.   [/Quote]What about an almost doubling of it? Good or bad?

djbrow · Answer

From a statistical standpoint, for the most part, the increase was a few dollars but it goes to the points above...really it was appeasement or it was a major change for businesses without any other legal changes to help bridge the increased costs.

bowlslit · Answer

One of the points I have continued to make over time is that in addition to the points you made, there seems to be a parallel, with some lag, in the costs of living that the increase is intended to compensate for.

Raise the minimum wage and the housing costs soon follow due to market forces.

We can use Bill Clinton's dnc speach for reference. His first mortgage payment was $175 per month. ( his lowest paid speech in a long time )

It is indisputable that not only have wages increased since then, but housing costs have not been far behind.

When I was first married, mrs bowlslurp and rented a 2 bedroom duplex for $400 monthly. Nowadays, the same duplex with the same configuration, save for likely newer carpet and refer unit, rents for $750 or $800.

Other than time, what other forces existed that caused the rise in cost?

I can assure you that the number of comparable apartments in the market have not declined....quite the opposite in fact.

mainman11111 · Answer

dow jones all time high.republicans moving out of california, seattle, wash and oregon.housing price rises are always a away to get rid of slum. just look at all the costly places to live.tesla was 30$ now 200$, aapl was 10$ now 106$&#x2B;silver was 5$ now its what again? gold was 200$,300,400,600,1300,1900$ 1200$ now its what?top five companies in the world by market cap are what again? ya thats right democrat, democrat, democrat, democrat, democrat.dont say i didnt tell you so.

Ktrain · Answer

Bowl,

This is one of the few things we agree on. I'm not a fan of raising the min wage at all.

In fact, I'm in favor of eliminating it completely and letting the market determine the minimum wage.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

Minimum wage myth busters:https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbusterMyth: Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs.Not true: In a letter to President Obama and congressional leaders urging a minimum wage increase, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

The minimum wage, adjusted for inflation, peaked in 1968:https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/media_0/ebsa/images/chart-minwage-1938-to-2012.jpg

dl36 · Answer

But I thought that you were an extremist leftist liberal progressive Oh that&#x27;s right... Only the liars on the site call u thatI&#x27;m guessing the idea of indepdent and personal thinking and decisions remain baffling to these partisan lemmings with their narrow confirmation bias trying to grasp at anything they think might make their prescribed talking points anything beyond tired rhetoric

djbrow · Answer

There is lots of contrary evidence.https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-evidence-is-piling-up-that-higher-minimum-wages-kill-jobs-1450220824But the bottom line is unless you can change many of the tax implications of the increase, you are inviting the same problems that currently exist with sending jobs south of the border.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

I am not a WSJ subscriber, so I could not read anything beyond the first few sentences.However, even if I were genuinely undecided on this issue, I would definitely lend more credence to the collected wisdom of more than 600 economists (including 7 Nobel Prize winners) than I would to an article printed in the WSJ, which for the more than 50 years that I have been reading it, has been relentlessly pro-capital and anti-labor.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

What has happened since that last two years of Carter&#x27;s Presidency and Reagan&#x27;s monstrous tax cuts:

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

Well, the image showed in the preview window, but not in the actual posted comment.  Here is a link to the actual graph:https://coto2.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/income.jpg

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

This is a cartoon which nails the mindset of Greedy Capitalist Pigs whose motto is always, "I got mine, so fxck you!"

https://blog.chughtaimuseum.com/wp-content/uploads/greed-ultimate.jpg

The concentration of wealth is anathema to a healthy middle class.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

In the good old days, gains in productivity were tied to gains in real wages of goods-producing workers.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/US_productivity_and_real_wages.jpg/1280px-US_productivity_and_real_wages.jpg

Now, greedy capitalist pigs take more and ever more. The middle class is shrinking, auto and student debt are both exploding and real wages continue to shrink.

djbrow · Answer

I don&#x27;t disagree with your take on the WSJ, although I don&#x27;t think it is as partisan as you say. But the article cites many economists as well.This is not like climate change where 95% of the experts take one position. It is quite mixed. The reality is that statistics do not back up your claim of corporate greed. In fact, many of the businesses, in fact 50% according to the less than partisan CBO, are what the government qualifies as small to medium size businesses. These are not businesses with CEOs or with billion dollar budgets, but businesses with tight budgets. Simply adding a major expenses without any form of cost reduction is ripe with major issues.

bowlslit · Answer

Critical thinking may not be one of your strong points. Lets play a question and answer game shall we?If the formula is good with smaller numbers why isn&#x27;t it good with larger numbers?...say $100 bucks per hour....$300 per hour....We could just pay everyone $1000 bucks per hour and totally wipe poverty out of our country NO?What benefit does the company get...especially small business with the increase in wages? Are the employees going to work harder, get the same percentage gains in production?Please address my cost of living comparison. Why did my two bedroom duplex almost double in cost in 20 years when the only real change in that time period were modest population increases and increases in labor prices. The structure was built in the mid 70&#x27;s. The population increase should have been mitigated by the addition of at least 1000 new apartments in the market over that same period of time or more.These things are common sense and a need to consult any economist should not exist. Sometimes street smarts trump books smarts...and probably more often than not.

mainman11111 · Answer

https://www.today.com/money/gravity-payments-70k-minimum-salary-ceo-dan-price-shares-results-t10167870 k experiment

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

Greedy capitalist pig/average worker pay ratios (including realized options):

1965 = 20.1
2010 = 231.0

Chart link:

https://takethe5th.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/ceopayratio.gif

Full article:

https://takethe5th.com/wp/2013_04/one-more-time-how-goes-executive-pay/

The concentration of wealth is anathema to a healthy, vibrant economy.

DogbiteWilliams · Answer

Money supply &#x2B; criminally easy credit &#x2B; low interest rates all combined to create a monstrous real estate bubble (commercial and residential):https://static.safehaven.com/authors/hewitt/8030_d.pnghttps://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Historical-Mortgage-Rate-Trend-Chart-11-2011.jpgThe minimum wage had (and has) no impact on housing prices.  The current U.S. minimum wage is $7.25/hour.  Somebody making $15,080 per year will NOT qualify for a mortgage.

Don't say I didn't tell you so.

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