• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Kalshi Referral Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • Polymarket Referral Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • Betr Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
      • Gemini Predictions Promo Code
    • NFL Week 3
      NFL Week 3
      • NFL Odds
      • NFL Picks
      • Falcons-Packers Picks
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    NFL Rigged? - Voice Your Opinion

    «First Previous 123 ... 678
    The_Presence
    BowmansAddict
    barneybeans
    spocsstocks
    naesiy
    ...
    Participants:
    Search model icon
    Views: 11007
    Posts: 197
    «First Previous 123 ... 678
     
    The_Presence
    The_Presence
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2015
    Posts: 67
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 12:31 PM ET #176

    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:


     IMHO, kids now dream of the NFL for the $$$ or super stardom, both of which would come before winning a "trophy".  



    Now you have a choice.  You can be a part of the team, keep the money flowing for EVERYONE AND put on a show and become famous, all you have to do is stick to the script.  You wouldn't rob or kill anyone.  You wouldn't do no harm to anyone, in fact, the opposite by entertaining millions of people, some who may LIVE for the NFL and are provided hope through their team.  OR, you can decline the invitation, be a "white knight" and spill the beans because you wanted to "play for a superbowl" and protect the integrity of the game.  


    There is no real "negative" to the NFL "as is" other than some degenerate gamblers losing bets...and then again, we are just degenerates and deserve it.  Do people really think a player or ex player would blow it all up for the sake of their integrity?  Can you imagine what an athletes teammate would think if that athlete, for the sake of his "integrity" and not wanting to make a little extra cash, eliminated the possibility of future generations of poor inner city minorities playing in the NFL and making the same level of $$$ as currently available?  Or breaking the heart of the young cancer patient when she learns her favorite player isn't the greatest football player of all time but the greatest actor?  Or being the newly retired guy that sank the ship you just left, a ship that all your buddies are still on, because you wanted to sell a book and make a headline?  NO WAY.  The NFL (and pro sports in general) and all entities related to it's product are TOO BIG to fail.  To think anyone would want that weight on their shoulders of literally robbing a good percentage of the country of their livelihood and joy for anything less than their life would be unbelievable in itself.



    Good points man.  I agree that most players try to get to the league so they can make a good income.  That is undisputed fact.

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

    I agree with your point that nobody wants to stand out.  I just read a sales psychology book that showed studies on it.  Peer pressure rules almost everything we do.

    Is the NFL hurting anybody?  I think you did digress off what we were originally commenting on, but you have a good point nonetheless.  

    My point of view on it as far as the players go is this.  If I see these ego driven players (and we all like this for the most part) who now have instant access to the public via social media and other outlets mouthing off about anything that comes to their mind, wouldn't some numbnut spill the beans on this giant operation that is supposedly a fixed game/season/story?

    I mean if we pay attention to the emotions on the sidelines: anger, emotion, joy, thrill, are we not convinced that these athletes and coaches genuinely are experiencing these feelings?  If they knew how the script was supposed to play out, how could they express these feelings so convincingly.  They all would have to be academy award winning actors.  Did we all see Tom Brady's reaction to the game-sealing pick in the Super Bowl?  That dude was genuinely elated.  He is no dummy.  If he felt that his team was going to be gifted a victory, even if he wasn't in on it, he would have felt it and in no way could have been that surprised by the great interception by Butler.

    And if there were disgruntled players that felt like the fix was in, I don't think they would be very good at hiding it.  These guys are highly charged emotional beings.  They are not super-soldiers of some secret government agency.  They are beasts, and they put their heart and soul into the game for their families, their teammates, and their fans.  They wouldn't do all of that if they didn't genuinely feel that they would get a fair shot at winning.  You know what they would do?  See Miami Dolphins Defensive line this year.

    Anyways good discussion.  Good day.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:


     IMHO, kids now dream of the NFL for the $$$ or super stardom, both of which would come before winning a "trophy".  



    Now you have a choice.  You can be a part of the team, keep the money flowing for EVERYONE AND put on a show and become famous, all you have to do is stick to the script.  You wouldn't rob or kill anyone.  You wouldn't do no harm to anyone, in fact, the opposite by entertaining millions of people, some who may LIVE for the NFL and are provided hope through their team.  OR, you can decline the invitation, be a "white knight" and spill the beans because you wanted to "play for a superbowl" and protect the integrity of the game.  


    There is no real "negative" to the NFL "as is" other than some degenerate gamblers losing bets...and then again, we are just degenerates and deserve it.  Do people really think a player or ex player would blow it all up for the sake of their integrity?  Can you imagine what an athletes teammate would think if that athlete, for the sake of his "integrity" and not wanting to make a little extra cash, eliminated the possibility of future generations of poor inner city minorities playing in the NFL and making the same level of $$$ as currently available?  Or breaking the heart of the young cancer patient when she learns her favorite player isn't the greatest football player of all time but the greatest actor?  Or being the newly retired guy that sank the ship you just left, a ship that all your buddies are still on, because you wanted to sell a book and make a headline?  NO WAY.  The NFL (and pro sports in general) and all entities related to it's product are TOO BIG to fail.  To think anyone would want that weight on their shoulders of literally robbing a good percentage of the country of their livelihood and joy for anything less than their life would be unbelievable in itself.



    Good points man.  I agree that most players try to get to the league so they can make a good income.  That is undisputed fact.

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

    I agree with your point that nobody wants to stand out.  I just read a sales psychology book that showed studies on it.  Peer pressure rules almost everything we do.

    Is the NFL hurting anybody?  I think you did digress off what we were originally commenting on, but you have a good point nonetheless.  

    My point of view on it as far as the players go is this.  If I see these ego driven players (and we all like this for the most part) who now have instant access to the public via social media and other outlets mouthing off about anything that comes to their mind, wouldn't some numbnut spill the beans on this giant operation that is supposedly a fixed game/season/story?

    I mean if we pay attention to the emotions on the sidelines: anger, emotion, joy, thrill, are we not convinced that these athletes and coaches genuinely are experiencing these feelings?  If they knew how the script was supposed to play out, how could they express these feelings so convincingly.  They all would have to be academy award winning actors.  Did we all see Tom Brady's reaction to the game-sealing pick in the Super Bowl?  That dude was genuinely elated.  He is no dummy.  If he felt that his team was going to be gifted a victory, even if he wasn't in on it, he would have felt it and in no way could have been that surprised by the great interception by Butler.

    And if there were disgruntled players that felt like the fix was in, I don't think they would be very good at hiding it.  These guys are highly charged emotional beings.  They are not super-soldiers of some secret government agency.  They are beasts, and they put their heart and soul into the game for their families, their teammates, and their fans.  They wouldn't do all of that if they didn't genuinely feel that they would get a fair shot at winning.  You know what they would do?  See Miami Dolphins Defensive line this year.

    Anyways good discussion.  Good day.
     
    BowmansAddict
    BowmansAddict
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2007
    Posts: 6520
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 1:04 PM ET #177

    I honestly don't know how people, especially bettors who become attached to the game and lock in more than the average watcher, can say there is no way the games are rigged. Not all games of coarse not. But I have witnessed too much bafoonery and what 100% completely look like intentional turnovers and bad plays. over the years. A coincidence is a coincidence. But when you see things unfold in such a conspicuous manner over and over you realize this garbage is no coincidence. The NFL is a family. They are a entertainment league built for just that unlike most other pro leagues. The game is played arcade style and not fundumentally sound. My eyes have opened a long time ago to the cinema that is the NFL while everyone else believes ''theres no way its rigged". Thats fine. I'm not going to stop betting because  I believe I "think its fake". Its still entertainment and something that presents the opportunity to win some cash on a lazy sunday afternoon. I just hope I'm on the right of the fakeness. Have a nice day
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I honestly don't know how people, especially bettors who become attached to the game and lock in more than the average watcher, can say there is no way the games are rigged. Not all games of coarse not. But I have witnessed too much bafoonery and what 100% completely look like intentional turnovers and bad plays. over the years. A coincidence is a coincidence. But when you see things unfold in such a conspicuous manner over and over you realize this garbage is no coincidence. The NFL is a family. They are a entertainment league built for just that unlike most other pro leagues. The game is played arcade style and not fundumentally sound. My eyes have opened a long time ago to the cinema that is the NFL while everyone else believes ''theres no way its rigged". Thats fine. I'm not going to stop betting because  I believe I "think its fake". Its still entertainment and something that presents the opportunity to win some cash on a lazy sunday afternoon. I just hope I'm on the right of the fakeness. Have a nice day
     
    barneybeans
    barneybeans
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2003
    Posts: 9980
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 1:28 PM ET #178

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:




    But many people who cry "fix" imply that the entire game and league, and all of pro sports is choreographed.  That is simply not possible.  Even to suggest a RB would intentionally fumble a ball so his team will lose is borderline ridiculous.  
    ...
    But to suggest that players who work all their lives, and spend years training with their teammates to fulfill their dreams of playing in the Super Bowl to throw away all their hard work and their teammates hardwork for some cash, and to never  have any of their teammates who weren't in on it to NOT call them out?  That's highly unlikely to say the least.

    There is no way to script an entire game with a lot the players in on it and no one saying anything, it never leaking out. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.

    BUT

    All you need are the league officials, the refs and maybe a kicker, everyone getting huge money to "lean in favor of ______" and that could certainly be kept under wraps.
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:




    But many people who cry "fix" imply that the entire game and league, and all of pro sports is choreographed.  That is simply not possible.  Even to suggest a RB would intentionally fumble a ball so his team will lose is borderline ridiculous.  
    ...
    But to suggest that players who work all their lives, and spend years training with their teammates to fulfill their dreams of playing in the Super Bowl to throw away all their hard work and their teammates hardwork for some cash, and to never  have any of their teammates who weren't in on it to NOT call them out?  That's highly unlikely to say the least.

    There is no way to script an entire game with a lot the players in on it and no one saying anything, it never leaking out. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.

    BUT

    All you need are the league officials, the refs and maybe a kicker, everyone getting huge money to "lean in favor of ______" and that could certainly be kept under wraps.
     
    spocsstocks
    spocsstocks
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2002
    Posts: 1263
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 2:29 PM ET #179

    Yes its all rigged.  Its no different then watching the wwe.  Not only set up but you get stuff like this to. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/ 

    "All pro" quarterbacks in the league that come out and admit they cheat.  Rodgers has said publically he likes to use overinflated footballs yet no one does anything about it.

    You have teams speaking out https://nesn.com/2015/01/reports-ravens-believe-they-used-under-inflated-balls-vs-patriots/ saying footballs are over or underinflated in games. 

    You have quaterbacks telling running backs not to score and win the game https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000530579/article/eli-manning-says-he-told-rashad-jennings-not-to-score You could get a 60 or 70 year old man to go dive in the ground three times and not score you hardly have to be an elite athlete to do that

    You have teams that cheat in games aka New England 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/

    You can go on and on and on.  They should ban the fantasy sports sites in every state.  When players come out and say they are told not to score.  You can go on and on.... The nba had refs come out and say its rigged.  You can find multiple players that have come out and say its rigged.  No there is nothing real about it.  The nfl has even fought to get laws changed more toward entertainment.  Its a business its all about making money.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Yes its all rigged.  Its no different then watching the wwe.  Not only set up but you get stuff like this to. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/ 

    "All pro" quarterbacks in the league that come out and admit they cheat.  Rodgers has said publically he likes to use overinflated footballs yet no one does anything about it.

    You have teams speaking out https://nesn.com/2015/01/reports-ravens-believe-they-used-under-inflated-balls-vs-patriots/ saying footballs are over or underinflated in games. 

    You have quaterbacks telling running backs not to score and win the game https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000530579/article/eli-manning-says-he-told-rashad-jennings-not-to-score You could get a 60 or 70 year old man to go dive in the ground three times and not score you hardly have to be an elite athlete to do that

    You have teams that cheat in games aka New England 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/

    You can go on and on and on.  They should ban the fantasy sports sites in every state.  When players come out and say they are told not to score.  You can go on and on.... The nba had refs come out and say its rigged.  You can find multiple players that have come out and say its rigged.  No there is nothing real about it.  The nfl has even fought to get laws changed more toward entertainment.  Its a business its all about making money.

     
    naesiy
    naesiy
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 2005
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 2:51 PM ET #180

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:



    Good points man.  I agree that most players try to get to the league so they can make a good income.  That is undisputed fact.

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

    I agree with your point that nobody wants to stand out.  I just read a sales psychology book that showed studies on it.  Peer pressure rules almost everything we do.

    Is the NFL hurting anybody?  I think you did digress off what we were originally commenting on, but you have a good point nonetheless.  

    My point of view on it as far as the players go is this.  If I see these ego driven players (and we all like this for the most part) who now have instant access to the public via social media and other outlets mouthing off about anything that comes to their mind, wouldn't some numbnut spill the beans on this giant operation that is supposedly a fixed game/season/story?


    Anyways good discussion.  Good day.

    We definately agree on this point.  There is NO WAY the ENTIRE league could keep their mouth shut IF it was swayed in some ways.  It would have to be a limited number of people, maybe even as high as 10%.  But "secrets" can be kept in small groups.  I mean, inflategate was such a HUGE issue AFTER it came out but how big of an issues was it before, even WITH players already grumbling internally about it?  Not many people if at all knew about it.

    To a big extent, the league is STILL a fraternity and they keep most things in house.  It'd also be easy to weed out the ones that wouldn't be good at keeping secrets through simple tests that could be given pre-draft, similar to how employers give out "random" questionnaires asking what you would do in specific situations.  

    Good discussion brother.  
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:



    Good points man.  I agree that most players try to get to the league so they can make a good income.  That is undisputed fact.

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

    I agree with your point that nobody wants to stand out.  I just read a sales psychology book that showed studies on it.  Peer pressure rules almost everything we do.

    Is the NFL hurting anybody?  I think you did digress off what we were originally commenting on, but you have a good point nonetheless.  

    My point of view on it as far as the players go is this.  If I see these ego driven players (and we all like this for the most part) who now have instant access to the public via social media and other outlets mouthing off about anything that comes to their mind, wouldn't some numbnut spill the beans on this giant operation that is supposedly a fixed game/season/story?


    Anyways good discussion.  Good day.

    We definately agree on this point.  There is NO WAY the ENTIRE league could keep their mouth shut IF it was swayed in some ways.  It would have to be a limited number of people, maybe even as high as 10%.  But "secrets" can be kept in small groups.  I mean, inflategate was such a HUGE issue AFTER it came out but how big of an issues was it before, even WITH players already grumbling internally about it?  Not many people if at all knew about it.

    To a big extent, the league is STILL a fraternity and they keep most things in house.  It'd also be easy to weed out the ones that wouldn't be good at keeping secrets through simple tests that could be given pre-draft, similar to how employers give out "random" questionnaires asking what you would do in specific situations.  

    Good discussion brother.  
     
    BowmansAddict
    BowmansAddict
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2007
    Posts: 6520
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 3:04 PM ET #181

    I think the whole 'spygate' bullcrap is thrown out there to try and create a sense of competitiveness and legitimacy to the league. To throw off the people who think its a fake league, when how can it be fake if players are cheating to get the edge. Whether or not thats true I don't know for sure but thats my observation. How could there be cheating in a fake league? There can't.
    Also, there are lots of good points made on both sides. One aspect that nobody mentions is the serious lack of emotion from the quarterbacks or players in general when they f*k up. I know that when I played sports with friends, there was more emotion and anger there than in this league. Look at guys like flacco who never show any emotion in the slightest when they throw a pick. Not even a "aah garbage, I let the team and fans down with that stupid decision". Nothing. Look at the ending of last years superbowl when Wilson threw that atrotious interception to the Patriots to cost the team the superbowl!!! His reaction was like "oh shucks! Ah well". Just because they're millionaires you would still see a competitiveness among the players. I don't see garbage. Something here just doesn't add up
    T'is a good discussion indeed.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I think the whole 'spygate' bullcrap is thrown out there to try and create a sense of competitiveness and legitimacy to the league. To throw off the people who think its a fake league, when how can it be fake if players are cheating to get the edge. Whether or not thats true I don't know for sure but thats my observation. How could there be cheating in a fake league? There can't.
    Also, there are lots of good points made on both sides. One aspect that nobody mentions is the serious lack of emotion from the quarterbacks or players in general when they f*k up. I know that when I played sports with friends, there was more emotion and anger there than in this league. Look at guys like flacco who never show any emotion in the slightest when they throw a pick. Not even a "aah garbage, I let the team and fans down with that stupid decision". Nothing. Look at the ending of last years superbowl when Wilson threw that atrotious interception to the Patriots to cost the team the superbowl!!! His reaction was like "oh shucks! Ah well". Just because they're millionaires you would still see a competitiveness among the players. I don't see garbage. Something here just doesn't add up
    T'is a good discussion indeed.
     
    Alomar
    Alomar
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2015
    Posts: 1937
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 7:33 PM ET #182

    You sound sour about a loss
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    You sound sour about a loss
     
    HoldingXYZ
    HoldingXYZ
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2013
    Posts: 6667
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 10:24 PM ET #183

    hernandezgate went poof
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    hernandezgate went poof
     
    wizard1183
    wizard1183
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2013
    Posts: 820
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 11:13 PM ET #184

    I keep hearing about no way entire teams or what not could be involved in a fix. It's entertainment. I would love to read NFL contracts to see whether or not there are clauses involved that specify what happens within stays within or due punishment is involved such as lawsuits ect to keep "integrity" alive. I max bet the Saints thursday night and put some on the ML. Why? Because money is a driving force in this league. And when you read more about how team B doesnt stand a chance rather than team A being just that good? Something happens. It doesnt always work out that way, but majority of the time it does. 

    Let's look at this Sunday. NE vs Indy. No way Indy stands a chance, blah blah. I think if Luck plays? It's possible they win outright.  Patriots have won all games thus far and ATS except for a push while Colts are 1-4 ATS. If Luck plays, 9/10 the spread is covered by Indy. It's too easy to choose the dominant team to win. If that was the case? Everyone would be rich and Vegas would be in the poor house LOL

    Refs throwing flags, coaches giving their plays away to an opponent are an easy thing to do. Players throwing games? Well, while more difficult, its not entirely out of the realm of things by ANY means.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I keep hearing about no way entire teams or what not could be involved in a fix. It's entertainment. I would love to read NFL contracts to see whether or not there are clauses involved that specify what happens within stays within or due punishment is involved such as lawsuits ect to keep "integrity" alive. I max bet the Saints thursday night and put some on the ML. Why? Because money is a driving force in this league. And when you read more about how team B doesnt stand a chance rather than team A being just that good? Something happens. It doesnt always work out that way, but majority of the time it does. 

    Let's look at this Sunday. NE vs Indy. No way Indy stands a chance, blah blah. I think if Luck plays? It's possible they win outright.  Patriots have won all games thus far and ATS except for a push while Colts are 1-4 ATS. If Luck plays, 9/10 the spread is covered by Indy. It's too easy to choose the dominant team to win. If that was the case? Everyone would be rich and Vegas would be in the poor house LOL

    Refs throwing flags, coaches giving their plays away to an opponent are an easy thing to do. Players throwing games? Well, while more difficult, its not entirely out of the realm of things by ANY means.
     
    HoldingXYZ
    HoldingXYZ
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2013
    Posts: 6667
    Posted: Oct. 17, 2015 - 11:22 PM ET #185

    IM ALL IN

    NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS ML


    The Cleansing bowl may end soon but not here... If brady loses or doesnt cover... You will never hear the end of Brady Cheating... HAMMER THIS PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    IM ALL IN

    NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS ML


    The Cleansing bowl may end soon but not here... If brady loses or doesnt cover... You will never hear the end of Brady Cheating... HAMMER THIS PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    NeverMind
    NeverMind
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2007
    Posts: 3060
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 1:55 AM ET #186

    It's definitely rigged. The sheeples still believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. I'm up this year, win or lose, it doesn't change my opinion that it's rigged. I continue to play because if you know what the NFL is doing, you capitalize and take advantage to make profits.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    It's definitely rigged. The sheeples still believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. I'm up this year, win or lose, it doesn't change my opinion that it's rigged. I continue to play because if you know what the NFL is doing, you capitalize and take advantage to make profits.
     
    ITALIANINFO
    ITALIANINFO
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2015
    Posts: 55
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 3:51 AM ET #187

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    I agree, call me a conapiracy theorist if you want. I will say I don't believe ALL games are, but I do believe there are some where not only the refs but the players have the power to determine the outcome of the game. The RIGGED game of the year for me personally... Denver vs KC a few wèeks back. Broncos down 7 with under 2mins and the broncos march right down the field, like the chief db's just all of the sudden forgot how to play defense and Manning hit Thomas 3 or 4 times down field until he hit him WIDE OPEN in the end zone to tie it with under a minute. The chiefs receive kickoff and decide to clearly run the ball to take game into OT, but oh wait, on a simple handoff off tackle to ALL PRO RB Jamaal Charles and he fumbles on the 25. Broncos come out with under 30 secs and instead of just running the ball, to run clock down to 4 seconds and kick FG to win it... NOOO they throw to the end zone for another EASY TD to win by 7. They score 17pts in 58:30 against a Chiefs D that looked great, then score 14 in less than 1:30... Lol C'aaaammoon Maaan!! That one made me officially a believer...
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    I agree, call me a conapiracy theorist if you want. I will say I don't believe ALL games are, but I do believe there are some where not only the refs but the players have the power to determine the outcome of the game. The RIGGED game of the year for me personally... Denver vs KC a few wèeks back. Broncos down 7 with under 2mins and the broncos march right down the field, like the chief db's just all of the sudden forgot how to play defense and Manning hit Thomas 3 or 4 times down field until he hit him WIDE OPEN in the end zone to tie it with under a minute. The chiefs receive kickoff and decide to clearly run the ball to take game into OT, but oh wait, on a simple handoff off tackle to ALL PRO RB Jamaal Charles and he fumbles on the 25. Broncos come out with under 30 secs and instead of just running the ball, to run clock down to 4 seconds and kick FG to win it... NOOO they throw to the end zone for another EASY TD to win by 7. They score 17pts in 58:30 against a Chiefs D that looked great, then score 14 in less than 1:30... Lol C'aaaammoon Maaan!! That one made me officially a believer...
     
    alexsanderzz
    alexsanderzz
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2007
    Posts: 1
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 4:39 AM ET #188

    I don't believe that it is completely rigged. It is more like point shedding here and there. NFL is a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry and nfl players do not make that much money considering other sports. Remember that nba ref that was caught gambling??
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I don't believe that it is completely rigged. It is more like point shedding here and there. NFL is a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry and nfl players do not make that much money considering other sports. Remember that nba ref that was caught gambling??
     
    saintsfan1977
    saintsfan1977
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2013
    Posts: 346
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 7:16 AM ET #189

    Quote Originally Posted by ITALIANINFO:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    I agree, call me a conapiracy theorist if you want. I will say I don't believe ALL games are, but I do believe there are some where not only the refs but the players have the power to determine the outcome of the game. The RIGGED game of the year for me personally... Denver vs KC a few wèeks back. Broncos down 7 with under 2mins and the broncos march right down the field, like the chief db's just all of the sudden forgot how to play defense and Manning hit Thomas 3 or 4 times down field until he hit him WIDE OPEN in the end zone to tie it with under a minute. The chiefs receive kickoff and decide to clearly run the ball to take game into OT, but oh wait, on a simple handoff off tackle to ALL PRO RB Jamaal Charles and he fumbles on the 25. Broncos come out with under 30 secs and instead of just running the ball, to run clock down to 4 seconds and kick FG to win it... NOOO they throw to the end zone for another EASY TD to win by 7. They score 17pts in 58:30 against a Chiefs D that looked great, then score 14 in less than 1:30... Lol C'aaaammoon Maaan!! That one made me officially a believer...

    I had money on Denver and with 2 minutes left in the game I knew exactly how it would end. There was no other way than a turnover. Manning couldn't get shit going the first half then they let him play in the second half. He knows the script.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by ITALIANINFO:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    Alright, let me start off by saying 3 things.I'm not one to buy into the hype of conspiracy theories.I've been a lifelong die hard Dallas Cowboys fan and coming to terms with the fact that the NFL might be rigged would greatly alter my life.I am not sour about a loss.With that said, the ATL @ NO game (and many others of its kind) have me seriously considering the possibilities.How is it possible that a professional team that executes thousands of snaps in practice could possibly mess it up so frequently in game time. Conveniently each time it happened ATL was in the red zone.In addition, I'm not sure how many of you noticed but on one red zone possession, briefly before one of the fumbles a shotgun snap was way above Matt Ryan's head and required a jumping 1 handed catch.3 red zone turnovers (2 fumbles, 1 turnover on downs). As well as one almost fumble? In addition. On the ToD the snap was fumbled...
    I agree, call me a conapiracy theorist if you want. I will say I don't believe ALL games are, but I do believe there are some where not only the refs but the players have the power to determine the outcome of the game. The RIGGED game of the year for me personally... Denver vs KC a few wèeks back. Broncos down 7 with under 2mins and the broncos march right down the field, like the chief db's just all of the sudden forgot how to play defense and Manning hit Thomas 3 or 4 times down field until he hit him WIDE OPEN in the end zone to tie it with under a minute. The chiefs receive kickoff and decide to clearly run the ball to take game into OT, but oh wait, on a simple handoff off tackle to ALL PRO RB Jamaal Charles and he fumbles on the 25. Broncos come out with under 30 secs and instead of just running the ball, to run clock down to 4 seconds and kick FG to win it... NOOO they throw to the end zone for another EASY TD to win by 7. They score 17pts in 58:30 against a Chiefs D that looked great, then score 14 in less than 1:30... Lol C'aaaammoon Maaan!! That one made me officially a believer...

    I had money on Denver and with 2 minutes left in the game I knew exactly how it would end. There was no other way than a turnover. Manning couldn't get shit going the first half then they let him play in the second half. He knows the script.
     
    Xforged
    Xforged
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2013
    Posts: 1222
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 7:37 AM ET #190

    Quote Originally Posted by HoldingXYZ:

    This is what usually happends... The stars are rarely involved,, its the opposing team that fumbled the ball for Den to win in the final minutes like for instance recently the DEN-KC game... This way it has nothing to do with the main star... 

    Then the following week they bring in the backup quarterbacks that are highly under rated....

    Then after that a defense would allow wide holes uncovered for the opposing team to score,, sometimes known as a backdoor cover.... 

    In case you didnt see the last superbowl,, no one blamed the qb for that one,, it was all play calling... Ne had to win after what had happend... 

    So with this many methods they can always play game of musical chairs... Sometimes it isnt about the money in gambling,, it is about keeping the interest in the fans which also equates to money... 
    . Exactly!!! Keeping Parity is the important factor, keeping fans interested.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by HoldingXYZ:

    This is what usually happends... The stars are rarely involved,, its the opposing team that fumbled the ball for Den to win in the final minutes like for instance recently the DEN-KC game... This way it has nothing to do with the main star... 

    Then the following week they bring in the backup quarterbacks that are highly under rated....

    Then after that a defense would allow wide holes uncovered for the opposing team to score,, sometimes known as a backdoor cover.... 

    In case you didnt see the last superbowl,, no one blamed the qb for that one,, it was all play calling... Ne had to win after what had happend... 

    So with this many methods they can always play game of musical chairs... Sometimes it isnt about the money in gambling,, it is about keeping the interest in the fans which also equates to money... 
    . Exactly!!! Keeping Parity is the important factor, keeping fans interested.
     
    KiwiSportsFan
    KiwiSportsFan
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2012
    Posts: 822
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 8:05 AM ET #191

    In this post I'm not offering my opinion on the NFL. But I am going to address the rationalization routinely wheeled out by doubters that goes, 

    Fixing in team sports would require a lot of people to know, and they couldn't all keep silent about it, therefore the fixing would somehow inevitably become public knowledge. And because fixing hasn;'t become such public knowledge, this circular logic says that therefore it doesn't exist.

    In answer to that rationalization: In England at the moment there's a perjury trial going on. In 2012 a former New Zealand Cricket player called Chris Cairns was accused of match fixing by a Cricket official from India. Cairns sued him for defamation in an English court and won a large sum of money. In that trial, Cairns on the stand said he had never fixed a match. In the years subsequent to that trial a teammate of his (called Lou Vincent) was caught out as a match fixer, both in a Cricket league in India (where he played with Cairns on the same team) and in a Cricket league in England (Cairns wasn't involved with this one). In being caught, Vincent eventually fingered Cairns as the person who initially approached him to fix matches. 

    Anyway, there's more details to this story but here I'll get straight to the point I'm making. In Cairns' current perjury trial (related to his assertion he'd never fixed matches in the 2012 libel trial, the crucial testimony which won him that case), there are at least 10 former teammates of/players who knew Cairns who have and still are yet to testify, and they all have the same thing to say: they were either directly approached by him to fix matches or knew that he was a match fixer, as far back as 2008. A large number of people knew for 6-7 years, yet his criminal ways only became known because 1 person (Lou Vincent) was caught out for his own match fixing, and thereby had nothing to lose by fingering Cairns as a result of he himself getting caught. In short, if Vincent had never been caught, no one amongst the general public would still have any idea Cairns was a match fixer, and all those who knew would still be keeping silent about it, just like they were before Vincent was caught. If the assertion "too many people would know, it would be impossible to keep things silent" were true, then why didn't that dynamic function in this case? Why did so many people keep silent?

    One obvious explanation is there are libel laws in place; you just can't go on public record and say person X is a match fixer, without having proof. It's one thing to know, but if you stick your head outin public and open yourself to being sued for libel, you better have proof to back up your accusations, otherwise the process of law could ruin your life financially. Lou Vincent recorded a skype conversation between himself & Cairns' lawyer regarding Vincent giving false testimony in Cairns' 2012 libel trial, that's the damning evidence he has. But without actual evidence, it's a he said/she said situation, which for an accuser isn't good enough. If you've got no evidence and no one willing to back you up, then life is much easier if you just keep your head down, your mouth shut and go with the flow. Easy to excuse your lack of action by saying no one else is bothering to come forward, and that it's a crime not hurting anybody. Why should you be the one to risk sticking your neck out and let the law come after you & your finances for libel, when no one else is? And even if you wanted to, where are you going to get substantial proof? People in the know see a very hard road ahead of themselves for the rest of their lives if they become one of the snitchers: nobody likes a snitch, and snitchers put their very lives in danger by making themselves a target for people who hold deep grudges and have long memories.

    Cairns made a huge mistake by not having his lawyer spend the necessary money to visit Vincent face to face, so he could be sure nothing was being recorded. Without that concrete evidence, all Vincent would now have is his word (and since he's already a proven fixer himself, it's not like he isn't a proven liar).

    It's horrible reasoning to say because a lot of people would have to know, the truth would come out. 

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/story/925607.html
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    In this post I'm not offering my opinion on the NFL. But I am going to address the rationalization routinely wheeled out by doubters that goes, 

    Fixing in team sports would require a lot of people to know, and they couldn't all keep silent about it, therefore the fixing would somehow inevitably become public knowledge. And because fixing hasn;'t become such public knowledge, this circular logic says that therefore it doesn't exist.

    In answer to that rationalization: In England at the moment there's a perjury trial going on. In 2012 a former New Zealand Cricket player called Chris Cairns was accused of match fixing by a Cricket official from India. Cairns sued him for defamation in an English court and won a large sum of money. In that trial, Cairns on the stand said he had never fixed a match. In the years subsequent to that trial a teammate of his (called Lou Vincent) was caught out as a match fixer, both in a Cricket league in India (where he played with Cairns on the same team) and in a Cricket league in England (Cairns wasn't involved with this one). In being caught, Vincent eventually fingered Cairns as the person who initially approached him to fix matches. 

    Anyway, there's more details to this story but here I'll get straight to the point I'm making. In Cairns' current perjury trial (related to his assertion he'd never fixed matches in the 2012 libel trial, the crucial testimony which won him that case), there are at least 10 former teammates of/players who knew Cairns who have and still are yet to testify, and they all have the same thing to say: they were either directly approached by him to fix matches or knew that he was a match fixer, as far back as 2008. A large number of people knew for 6-7 years, yet his criminal ways only became known because 1 person (Lou Vincent) was caught out for his own match fixing, and thereby had nothing to lose by fingering Cairns as a result of he himself getting caught. In short, if Vincent had never been caught, no one amongst the general public would still have any idea Cairns was a match fixer, and all those who knew would still be keeping silent about it, just like they were before Vincent was caught. If the assertion "too many people would know, it would be impossible to keep things silent" were true, then why didn't that dynamic function in this case? Why did so many people keep silent?

    One obvious explanation is there are libel laws in place; you just can't go on public record and say person X is a match fixer, without having proof. It's one thing to know, but if you stick your head outin public and open yourself to being sued for libel, you better have proof to back up your accusations, otherwise the process of law could ruin your life financially. Lou Vincent recorded a skype conversation between himself & Cairns' lawyer regarding Vincent giving false testimony in Cairns' 2012 libel trial, that's the damning evidence he has. But without actual evidence, it's a he said/she said situation, which for an accuser isn't good enough. If you've got no evidence and no one willing to back you up, then life is much easier if you just keep your head down, your mouth shut and go with the flow. Easy to excuse your lack of action by saying no one else is bothering to come forward, and that it's a crime not hurting anybody. Why should you be the one to risk sticking your neck out and let the law come after you & your finances for libel, when no one else is? And even if you wanted to, where are you going to get substantial proof? People in the know see a very hard road ahead of themselves for the rest of their lives if they become one of the snitchers: nobody likes a snitch, and snitchers put their very lives in danger by making themselves a target for people who hold deep grudges and have long memories.

    Cairns made a huge mistake by not having his lawyer spend the necessary money to visit Vincent face to face, so he could be sure nothing was being recorded. Without that concrete evidence, all Vincent would now have is his word (and since he's already a proven fixer himself, it's not like he isn't a proven liar).

    It's horrible reasoning to say because a lot of people would have to know, the truth would come out. 

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/story/925607.html
     
    BIGfnPOO
    BIGfnPOO
    MVP
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 18880
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 8:08 AM ET #192

    wahwahwah   as lpong as u bet the fixed team, you be ok.
    bigFnPOO
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    wahwahwah   as lpong as u bet the fixed team, you be ok.
     
    Xforged
    Xforged
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2013
    Posts: 1222
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2015 - 8:17 AM ET #193

    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    I just wanna ask the million-dollar question to those who still doubt game-fixing goes on....

    If you feel so adamant about the game being on the up and up, why do you cap games? If everything is legit, then the favorite should win every single time, should they not ?

    I nfact, you cap games because like the rest of us, you know that shadiness engulfs all sports, and hence the "anything can happen" doctrine. When you talk about a backdoor cover, you are actually saying, "Vegas might fuk me in the end". You just don't wanna call it that.

    Not to get political here, but even the PRESIDENT of the good ole US of A is a puppet for big business and the banking cartels. They tell HIM, what he's gonna do and say, when and where and how. That's how sports works, too.In college, as I stated earlier, it is the boosters who dictate what Nick Sabanand other coaching "gods" do. Because they PAY his SALARY. They keep the programs afloat.x
        Thank you!  Can't stand when people say you're just being negative no, I'm being a realist & see the Big Picture!!  Follow the Money.  Everyone has a price
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    I just wanna ask the million-dollar question to those who still doubt game-fixing goes on....

    If you feel so adamant about the game being on the up and up, why do you cap games? If everything is legit, then the favorite should win every single time, should they not ?

    I nfact, you cap games because like the rest of us, you know that shadiness engulfs all sports, and hence the "anything can happen" doctrine. When you talk about a backdoor cover, you are actually saying, "Vegas might fuk me in the end". You just don't wanna call it that.

    Not to get political here, but even the PRESIDENT of the good ole US of A is a puppet for big business and the banking cartels. They tell HIM, what he's gonna do and say, when and where and how. That's how sports works, too.In college, as I stated earlier, it is the boosters who dictate what Nick Sabanand other coaching "gods" do. Because they PAY his SALARY. They keep the programs afloat.x
        Thank you!  Can't stand when people say you're just being negative no, I'm being a realist & see the Big Picture!!  Follow the Money.  Everyone has a price
     
    barneybeans
    barneybeans
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2003
    Posts: 9980
    Posted: Oct. 19, 2015 - 11:09 AM ET #194

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

     I mean if we pay attention to the emotions on the sidelines: anger, emotion, joy, thrill, are we not convinced that these athletes and coaches genuinely are experiencing these feelings?  If they knew how the script was supposed to play out, how could they express these feelings so convincingly.  They all would have to be academy award winning actors.  Did we all see Tom Brady's reaction to the game-sealing pick in the Super Bowl?  That dude was genuinely elated.  He is no dummy.  If he felt that his team was going to be gifted a victory, even if he wasn't in on it, he would have felt it and in no way could have been that surprised by the great interception by Butler.

    And if there were disgruntled players that felt like the fix was in, I don't think they would be very good at hiding it.  These guys are highly charged emotional beings.  They are not super-soldiers of some secret government agency.  They are beasts, and they put their heart and soul into the game for their families, their teammates, and their fans.  They wouldn't do all of that if they didn't genuinely feel that they would get a fair shot at winning.  You know what they would do?  See Miami Dolphins Defensive line this year.
    There is absolutely no way this is scripted like the WWE on a play by play level where a player is told to fumble on purpose and thousands of players are in on it.

    Let's be real, too many people in on it it would leak, regardless of the bleeding heart discussion about the United Way and the integrity of the game in the eyes of so many poor people who look up and have hope in the NFL, yada yada yada BS!

    These guys would talk, someone would get fired up and spill the beans.

    The players do what the coaches tell them to do, there are plays designed to do certain things. So that's how players can be somewhat controlled - without directly knowing what is going on. They would need to be kept in the dark.

    Why is it such a hard stretch for the NFL to tell their refs "We would like a close MNF game tonight between the Packers @ home and the stinky Cowboys [even though the spread is Pack -10.5] so you know what to do"


    So the refs might slow the game down at opportune times to take the wind out of GB's sails, look the other way on a few Cowboy holds, throw or not throw a flag, etc....

    Or somehow miraculously the Cowboys break a few big plays all by themselves, pick 6 etc and the refs don't have to do anything because of a random distribution and luck that follows what they were hoping for anyway.

    The refs can totally control a game by themselves TO SUIT THE INTEREST OF THE NFL - whether or not VEGAS is involved at this point is irrelevant.

    Just keeping certain games close IS EXCITING ENOUGH, Football IS ALREADY EXCITING as a sport, YES?

    You never know who is reffing what game until kick off, you barely know these guys' last names, they never speak to the press they are enigmas.

    In short there are not many people that need to be in on it - definitely not the whole entire league of thousands of players and coaches.

    Q: What is the goal of the NFL? A: to keep it exciting and interesting so we make lots of money.

    Q: How do we accomplish this? A: Keep games close make them exciting, come from behind wins, etc...

    Does one need to script entire games to accomplish this, mandating that all or half of the players and coaches all be in on it and follow a script? A foolish question, no? It's not necessary at all, too risky - there, I answered the foolish question in case it's not blatantly obvious.

    To think that even only half the of players on each team are in on high level scripted plays or low level detailed plays is really tough to swallow (High level being easier to fathom: "first drive of the game go 3 and out, punt so that opposing side gets decent field position, don't give the ball to J Charles because he's not in on it and might break one...").

    Now I ask you this: With all of the technology the billionaire NFL league has access to, which includes having access to a team's filmed practices all week, their play book, the team's internal meetings and strategies and during the game what is getting communicated from the coaches and coordinators high up in the booth down to the coaches on the field....

    There would only need to be one guy involved with each team who is a "low level coach/coordinator" that really works moreso for the NFL.

    With all of that totally possible PERHAPS the league could accomplish what is in blue above with 80% success without the head coaches and players even knowing? Just by leaking pages from a play book to the other team? Info from practices? That "low level coach/coordinator" in the booth or on the ground can make a recommendation on offense knowing what defensive play is coming next.

    Couple that with the refs leaning just a little one way and guess what? You have an exciting MNF game that has lead changes GB wins by a touchdown, almost covers and everyone is watching up until the last commercial. Which is what the NFL wants.

    If that info get's leaked to Vegas and they slowly drop the line on GB from  -10.5 to -8 and it screws the bettor so be it.

    If the NFL does decide that they will institute a lean on a particular game and if in doing so it helps friends of the NFL cronies win a few bets so be it. Rich folks like winning money too.
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Presence:

    And yes the NFL is a business, a show business, they need to tell a story to keep people interested.  Any of us that have been to a live game at some point miss the talking heads weaving us a story as the game goes along.  Although it's exciting to be in the building, we love the story to keep us engaged.

     I mean if we pay attention to the emotions on the sidelines: anger, emotion, joy, thrill, are we not convinced that these athletes and coaches genuinely are experiencing these feelings?  If they knew how the script was supposed to play out, how could they express these feelings so convincingly.  They all would have to be academy award winning actors.  Did we all see Tom Brady's reaction to the game-sealing pick in the Super Bowl?  That dude was genuinely elated.  He is no dummy.  If he felt that his team was going to be gifted a victory, even if he wasn't in on it, he would have felt it and in no way could have been that surprised by the great interception by Butler.

    And if there were disgruntled players that felt like the fix was in, I don't think they would be very good at hiding it.  These guys are highly charged emotional beings.  They are not super-soldiers of some secret government agency.  They are beasts, and they put their heart and soul into the game for their families, their teammates, and their fans.  They wouldn't do all of that if they didn't genuinely feel that they would get a fair shot at winning.  You know what they would do?  See Miami Dolphins Defensive line this year.
    There is absolutely no way this is scripted like the WWE on a play by play level where a player is told to fumble on purpose and thousands of players are in on it.

    Let's be real, too many people in on it it would leak, regardless of the bleeding heart discussion about the United Way and the integrity of the game in the eyes of so many poor people who look up and have hope in the NFL, yada yada yada BS!

    These guys would talk, someone would get fired up and spill the beans.

    The players do what the coaches tell them to do, there are plays designed to do certain things. So that's how players can be somewhat controlled - without directly knowing what is going on. They would need to be kept in the dark.

    Why is it such a hard stretch for the NFL to tell their refs "We would like a close MNF game tonight between the Packers @ home and the stinky Cowboys [even though the spread is Pack -10.5] so you know what to do"


    So the refs might slow the game down at opportune times to take the wind out of GB's sails, look the other way on a few Cowboy holds, throw or not throw a flag, etc....

    Or somehow miraculously the Cowboys break a few big plays all by themselves, pick 6 etc and the refs don't have to do anything because of a random distribution and luck that follows what they were hoping for anyway.

    The refs can totally control a game by themselves TO SUIT THE INTEREST OF THE NFL - whether or not VEGAS is involved at this point is irrelevant.

    Just keeping certain games close IS EXCITING ENOUGH, Football IS ALREADY EXCITING as a sport, YES?

    You never know who is reffing what game until kick off, you barely know these guys' last names, they never speak to the press they are enigmas.

    In short there are not many people that need to be in on it - definitely not the whole entire league of thousands of players and coaches.

    Q: What is the goal of the NFL? A: to keep it exciting and interesting so we make lots of money.

    Q: How do we accomplish this? A: Keep games close make them exciting, come from behind wins, etc...

    Does one need to script entire games to accomplish this, mandating that all or half of the players and coaches all be in on it and follow a script? A foolish question, no? It's not necessary at all, too risky - there, I answered the foolish question in case it's not blatantly obvious.

    To think that even only half the of players on each team are in on high level scripted plays or low level detailed plays is really tough to swallow (High level being easier to fathom: "first drive of the game go 3 and out, punt so that opposing side gets decent field position, don't give the ball to J Charles because he's not in on it and might break one...").

    Now I ask you this: With all of the technology the billionaire NFL league has access to, which includes having access to a team's filmed practices all week, their play book, the team's internal meetings and strategies and during the game what is getting communicated from the coaches and coordinators high up in the booth down to the coaches on the field....

    There would only need to be one guy involved with each team who is a "low level coach/coordinator" that really works moreso for the NFL.

    With all of that totally possible PERHAPS the league could accomplish what is in blue above with 80% success without the head coaches and players even knowing? Just by leaking pages from a play book to the other team? Info from practices? That "low level coach/coordinator" in the booth or on the ground can make a recommendation on offense knowing what defensive play is coming next.

    Couple that with the refs leaning just a little one way and guess what? You have an exciting MNF game that has lead changes GB wins by a touchdown, almost covers and everyone is watching up until the last commercial. Which is what the NFL wants.

    If that info get's leaked to Vegas and they slowly drop the line on GB from  -10.5 to -8 and it screws the bettor so be it.

    If the NFL does decide that they will institute a lean on a particular game and if in doing so it helps friends of the NFL cronies win a few bets so be it. Rich folks like winning money too.
     
    barneybeans
    barneybeans
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2003
    Posts: 9980
    Posted: Oct. 19, 2015 - 11:25 AM ET #195

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGfnPOO:

    wahwahwah   as lpong as u bet the fixed team, you be ok.
    Already on it brother!

    I used to be on the wrong side a lot early in my betting career, but now I think I have a better handle on when it makes sense for the NFL to institute a lean - not for the benefit of Vegas but for the benefit of the league.

    I used to be on the other side but now I see that pass interference call on the other team that was really just incidental contact but the refs called PI and I say, "That's not really pass interference, BUT I'LL TAKE IT!"

    "I'd never understood how closely things are connected to one another....We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise.. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect and the larger universe in the role we've just played, it's perfectly clear that we're affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them." - Arthur Golden
    The pen is mightier than the pigs
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by BIGfnPOO:

    wahwahwah   as lpong as u bet the fixed team, you be ok.
    Already on it brother!

    I used to be on the wrong side a lot early in my betting career, but now I think I have a better handle on when it makes sense for the NFL to institute a lean - not for the benefit of Vegas but for the benefit of the league.

    I used to be on the other side but now I see that pass interference call on the other team that was really just incidental contact but the refs called PI and I say, "That's not really pass interference, BUT I'LL TAKE IT!"

    "I'd never understood how closely things are connected to one another....We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise.. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect and the larger universe in the role we've just played, it's perfectly clear that we're affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them." - Arthur Golden
     
    phixer
    phixer
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2012
    Posts: 4174
    Posted: Oct. 19, 2015 - 12:22 PM ET #196

    Quote Originally Posted by spocsstocks:

    Yes its all rigged.  Its no different then watching the wwe.  Not only set up but you get stuff like this to. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/ 

    "All pro" quarterbacks in the league that come out and admit they cheat.  Rodgers has said publically he likes to use overinflated footballs yet no one does anything about it.

    You have teams speaking out https://nesn.com/2015/01/reports-ravens-believe-they-used-under-inflated-balls-vs-patriots/ saying footballs are over or underinflated in games. 

    You have quaterbacks telling running backs not to score and win the game https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000530579/article/eli-manning-says-he-told-rashad-jennings-not-to-score You could get a 60 or 70 year old man to go dive in the ground three times and not score you hardly have to be an elite athlete to do that

    You have teams that cheat in games aka New England 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/

    You can go on and on and on.  They should ban the fantasy sports sites in every state.  When players come out and say they are told not to score.  You can go on and on.... The nba had refs come out and say its rigged.  You can find multiple players that have come out and say its rigged.  No there is nothing real about it.  The nfl has even fought to get laws changed more toward entertainment.  Its a business its all about making money.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by spocsstocks:

    Yes its all rigged.  Its no different then watching the wwe.  Not only set up but you get stuff like this to. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/ 

    "All pro" quarterbacks in the league that come out and admit they cheat.  Rodgers has said publically he likes to use overinflated footballs yet no one does anything about it.

    You have teams speaking out https://nesn.com/2015/01/reports-ravens-believe-they-used-under-inflated-balls-vs-patriots/ saying footballs are over or underinflated in games. 

    You have quaterbacks telling running backs not to score and win the game https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000530579/article/eli-manning-says-he-told-rashad-jennings-not-to-score You could get a 60 or 70 year old man to go dive in the ground three times and not score you hardly have to be an elite athlete to do that

    You have teams that cheat in games aka New England 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/report-nfl-found-11-of-12-patriots-footballs-under-inflated/

    You can go on and on and on.  They should ban the fantasy sports sites in every state.  When players come out and say they are told not to score.  You can go on and on.... The nba had refs come out and say its rigged.  You can find multiple players that have come out and say its rigged.  No there is nothing real about it.  The nfl has even fought to get laws changed more toward entertainment.  Its a business its all about making money.

     
     
    phixer
    phixer
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2012
    Posts: 4174
    Posted: Oct. 19, 2015 - 12:45 PM ET #197

    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    Anyone who really wants to delve into some truth on the subject, should read David Touhy's book:   "The fix is in".

    However, just like pertaining to their own government, manysports fans want to continue wearing blinders and shun the truth which is staring them right in the face.

    This is bigger than sports, guys. Sports in general, especially the NFL, is used like a propaganda tool. The NFL has deals with the federal government. Don't you see that sports serve to distract the public from the shady dealings of the government?  That discussion is for another day.

    Did you know that some of the most "respected" owners in the NFL, Rooneys, Maras------WERE BOOKIES AND HAD TIES TO ILLEGAL GAMBLING AND ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATES ?

    Don't believe me?  Just look it up. And who controls illegal gambling?  The mob and other "out of your pay grade" powers that be. Stop deluding yourselves. How many more "backdoor" covers and unexplainable calls by refs must you witness, before you stop chalking it up to "incompetence" and accept that it is all scripted and planned out before you even reach the betting window ?

    Come on, man. It's not that hard. Seriously, you do not see it?
    i'd only add - always be on right side of the fix  - taram, taram pa ram taram (should be sang like monthy python's "the life of brian" theme song - always look at bright side of life)
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    Anyone who really wants to delve into some truth on the subject, should read David Touhy's book:   "The fix is in".

    However, just like pertaining to their own government, manysports fans want to continue wearing blinders and shun the truth which is staring them right in the face.

    This is bigger than sports, guys. Sports in general, especially the NFL, is used like a propaganda tool. The NFL has deals with the federal government. Don't you see that sports serve to distract the public from the shady dealings of the government?  That discussion is for another day.

    Did you know that some of the most "respected" owners in the NFL, Rooneys, Maras------WERE BOOKIES AND HAD TIES TO ILLEGAL GAMBLING AND ORGANIZED CRIME SYNDICATES ?

    Don't believe me?  Just look it up. And who controls illegal gambling?  The mob and other "out of your pay grade" powers that be. Stop deluding yourselves. How many more "backdoor" covers and unexplainable calls by refs must you witness, before you stop chalking it up to "incompetence" and accept that it is all scripted and planned out before you even reach the betting window ?

    Come on, man. It's not that hard. Seriously, you do not see it?
    i'd only add - always be on right side of the fix  - taram, taram pa ram taram (should be sang like monthy python's "the life of brian" theme song - always look at bright side of life)
    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum
    «First Previous 123 ... 678

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • Wednesday 09/23/2026 490 Covers arrow
    • 🏈🏈🏈 Fubah2's risky CFB bets 259,876 Covers arrow
    • PART DEUX 175 Covers arrow
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 58,371 Covers arrow
    • Wednesday 3,170 Covers arrow
    • ?? KBO Plays 🥎 15,172 Covers arrow
    • ***Macwesties * Wed. Sept. 23, 2026 * MLB Baseball Plays*** 1,898 Covers arrow
    • NCAA FOOTBALL. 151 23,919 Covers arrow
    • NCAA WEEK 4 *** Parlay Picasso *** 1,297 Covers arrow
    • Lies, Inaccuracies & Stupidity 26,208 Covers arrow

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 Genius Sports. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.