Giants -3 over Jaguars. I don't care how square you think that pick is.There is good reason 2takeit.

What motivation does Jax have?

They have one win.

Win one for the gipper?

Giants have motivation.

Coaches want to save and justify their jobs. A new O-Coordinator must continue to prove his offense can function next year.

The players? Do you think Beckham will lay down as he becomes one of the faces of the league at his position?

Do you think Eli lays down? When has that happened?

Do you think Jennings (RB) lays down? He's fighting for a job.

Players are playing. Coaches are coaching. It's amazing to me to say the Jags, with no history, no pride, no motivation and no championships are going to be more motivated with one win to take out the 3 win Giants (as though that is going to be a big emotional win??). They might play hard. But not harder than the Giants and they certainly aren't more talented.

And with a line of 3, all you have to do is beat them on the road. That's not asking a lot.

First of all, thanks for another great read while drinking my morning coffee.

You made some very good points about the Giants, but let's take a look at the Jaguars: Jaguars played the TOUGHEST (#1) schedule in the league at 0.572. Of their 11 opponents, 5 teams are currently having a playoff spot and 9 out of these 11 (Indy twice) are still in the playoff hunt within one or two wins.

Wait a minute now! How about the Giants schedule! 7 of the 10 different opponents the Giants have faced are still in the playoff hunt (and it really is 8 of 10 since they had to play the Cowboys twice).

First, I'm sure you mean adjusted schedule results including records to the present week because the Jags didn't start the year with the toughest, they started with the fourth weakest.

Anyhow, the Giants played Indy once as well. And look at how they had to start the year, all with a completely new offense: @ Detroit, vs. Arizona. I detailed this in the OP so I won't repeat the game. They beat up on three patsies and then faced a murderer's row of 6 games including a Dallas team that is having the biggest revival in years. Plus, Jax played the NFC East obviously, which sets up this game. That strengthens their schedule at the top. The Giants play Dallas twice and Philly twice while the Jags only play each once. And the Jags had their game against a terrible Washington team and got destroyed in the Skins best performance of the season while the Giants win over the Skins was their best.

Now when you get crushed by the Redskins...watch out!

If I'm honestly looking at the two schedule on their face without knowing adjusted strength through 11 weeks, I'll take the Jags schedule over the Giants in terms of desirability for my team, particularly because of this recent 6 game stretch.

In the end, this schedule argument is a wash to me.

 Despite that tough schedule, they built a defense that was very solid. A German mathematical power rating I use for capping that focuses on the efficiency on every single down, has the Jaguars defense ranked at #14. Their biggest weakness is their defensive INT rate at 1.3%. The league's average is at 2.5%, so you could expect regression to the mean statistically.

Ok, nice stat but honestly, #14 doesn't scare me in this game. The Giants aren't that bad to be bullied by a 14th ranked defense especially one that needs extra power rating analysis. In traditional terms, these are two of the worst, if not the worst defenses in the league after the Falcons.

Another point: This is a home game for Jacksonville, and they still want to give their fans something back.

And with a line of +3, you better give something back, as in an outright win or else you push (and some people have it worse at Jags 2.5). That's a lot to ask from a one win team. This team is a Cleveland Browns win away from fighting off historical futility in a winless season.

And remember when that loss for the Browns came. After a historic manhandling by the Browns, of the Steelers the week before beating them 31-10. You just don't see Browns wins over Pitt like that. Then they have to get up for the hapless Jags. They probably still had liquor on their breath and hookers in their hotel rooms still celebrating a week later as they took the field for the Jags.

And I want to note this about the Jags schedule because its a subterranean point and stresses they are worse, not better, than their record indicates (and that record shows they have all of one win).

Teams don't 'get up' to play for the Jags. This is typically a sleepwalk game for teams. Look at the Colts last week. 6-3 at the half and they snap out of it and go onto win 23-3. Does anyone really think the Colts, or any team for that matter is really going FULL BORE in practice...for the Jags. The Jags ARE the letdown spot EVERY WEEK.

Just look at what an excellent KC team did this week in a sandwich spot against the Raiders. Lost. Why? It's tough to get up for a winless (or in this case 1 win) team.

But that doesn't apply to the Giants. Teams get up to play the Giants. Even in their worst season, beating the Giants means something. Why? They have rings, history, and they come to play. They are not a dysfunctional franchise like the Jets.

Now when the Giants face the Jags with 3 wins and on a 6 game losing streak, a franchise with this much pride, with coaches fighting for jobs and justification, with players that historically do not lay down (see last years 0-6 team finish the season on a 7-2 run, all with nothing to play for), means the Giants will not want to hit rock bottom with a loss to the Jags.  

 In their four home games this season, they lost badly to Indy (like the Giants), had a decent shot at beating Pittsburgh, won against Cleveland and OUTGAINED the Dolphins by 51 yards. They put 377 yards on the Fins top-3 defense. Their pass rush is very good, they are averaging 3 sacks per game (#3 in the league).

Wait a minute now!

 Let's not paint this Dolphins game as one that is a positive. Although they put up 377 yards, 80 of those yards came on their last series with 3:54 left and the game locked up for the Fins as they were up 27-6.

Then the Jags punched it in at 2:47 to make the score look like it wasn't a complete blowout. Miami didn't need to do much as the Jags simply weren't producing points for all their output (miscues and turnovers) as they had an early 17-3 third quarter lead and started running the ball.

Jags even kicked the 40 yarder to make it 17-6 in the third quarter as though that brings them any closer to winning the game.

Miami starts running the ball and it looks like the Jags beat them in the box score. Not so much if you take away a very late 80 yard drive with the game locked up and the inability of the Jags to score (which carries over into this game).

I watched their game against the Cowboys at Wembley. The only reason the Jaguars didn't cover was because they showed a tackling performance I've never seen this season. It was so bad. Please go back and watch the Cowboys scoring plays. For example the Jags missed FOUR tackles on Dez Bryant on his 35 yard TD. 30 yards were after the catch. That game could have come down to the wire with a better tackling performance.

Wait a minute now! (is there an echo in here??)

The only reason they didn't cover? They were trailing 31-9 with 1:53 remaining when yet another meaningless score occurred to make it 31-17 with the game locked up. And the 9 pts they got? Two of them came on a penalty against Dallas in the endzone on a safety.

Why? This team can't score and when they do, they need the zebras to give them points or they score late TD's to make the game 'closer' (and it's not THAT much closer either).

And the missed tackles? That is the dysfunction you get when you bet on the Jags. It comes with the price of admission. Just like the Jets and their 6 turnovers against the Bills. Ya have to eat that if you back them (I did). This is what these teams do at the bottom of the NFL barrel. They stink it up in unimaginable ways.

There is no single reason to take the Giants on the road IMO. I think this is the best remaining spot for the Jaguars to get their second win of the season.

This is a team that almost beat SF (came 5 yards and dropped pass away). They lost to Dallas with 1 minute left in a game they stayed within the spread from start to finish. They played hard for 3.5 quarters against Seattle @SEA and then the floodgates opened (a team that needed not one but TWO fumbles to fall in their lap or that game may have had a very different outcome).

Give me the Jags stretch of three games where you really can say, "Yes this Jags team is showing up!" You can't. There is none!

Giants have been playing hard with nothing to play for (despite LC believing these games are Must Wins, they aren't) and will continue to.

Just my input and lean on the game.

Nice debating you but I think you have the wrong side.

P.S. why do you keep wasting your time responding to these senseless commenty day in day out ? I don't get it. Just ignore them and you have more time talking about football.. for example with me after my post.

I know. I'm working on improving that.

Stay Away

I've got to say, there is a such a low level of intellect on this site that I may not stick around these parts anymore.

What shortsighted approach?

Did you read the write-up? Did you read my detailed responses to every single one of Summa's counters?

Did you read what I said in LC's thread where I broke down every single fallacy he had in his write-up?

The post you are quoting is one of a dozen counterpoints outside of the OP and other threads.

If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't take ONE POST where I ultra-briefly addressed the Jaguars motivation (which not a single poster has yet to prove to me they have more willingness to win one here than the Giants do, and they've proven that week after the week after week) in comparison to the Giants motivation.

Do you think that is MY ONLY reason for backing the Giants here?

If you do, you are an even bigger fool you've proven yourself to be because you just exposed yourself to others here that you can't even pass a basic reading comprehension course.

And this statement:

Not sure who you are trying to convince either.  

Are you some kind of fu**in dumba** or are these two sentences a joke?

I hope they are a joke.

This is a message board you idiot. The purpose is to share ideas and present stances to support your side.

"Not sure who you are trying to convince" Huh? Are there other posters here who read threads or not? Are they looking for an angle or a trend or a tidbit of information to choose a side or not?

If not, why the fu** would they click on a thread.

Better, why the fu** would YOU click on this thread or any thread for that matter?

Because your a mindless clicking idiot who likes to play with a mouse?

You can find thousands of reasons to take a team with a better record on a short line vs. a team with only 1 win.  

You can? What are they? Did you open this thread and did I spew, "Giants are better! Book it!" No I gave you a detailed OP and detailed responses not some rah-rah-rah pom-pom waving this team is better than that team crap.

Now I'm looking for you to tell me the reason why I should take the team with 1 win over the Giants (and I wouldn't care if the Giants had zero wins in this spot). Can you give me any? LC did. And I countered...all of them.

Go in that thread and give counters to my counters or shut your trap kid.

They have not shown up for many games during coughlin's era

That is, outside of the two Super Bowls they won over the mighty Patriots as dogs both times.

Are you going to scrutinize EVERY loss in the Coughlin era? There are games where the Giants will be severely outclassed against better teams. Do you think the Jags outclass them and/or are better?

I've seen them get trashed at home by Carolina with a playoff spot on the line

The guy goes back FIVE years to find an example. If ya gotta go back a half a decade to find an example of a laydown, you're sitting pretty as a Giants backer. By the way, the playoff spot that was 'on the line' was about as thick as dental floss string that year given they had to win out and other teams had tiebreakers.

The Giants don't have a shot in hell at making the playoffs so from that standpoint they have nothing to play for

The Giants haven't had a shot in hell to make the playoffs the past three weeks and showed up all three games.

They come off a physical and emotional loss vs the Cowboys last week

I don't think many here who watch the Cowboys would characterize the them as 'phsyical' and I really don't think the Giants got too emotional after a loss that dropped them to 3-8. They are well-accustomed to losing this year.

They very well may end up winning this game but I don't see it as a great play

That's your opinion. I capped it and I do.

Jax is hungry

Go to LC's thread and see where I showed you how hungry they were the past 4 weeks were they outscored 114-53 with about 1/3 of those points coming in garbage time.

 has a solid defense with a QB looking to prove himself

Their defense has given up the most points this year. Their offense is at the very bottom of the NFL in many statistical categories including the most important one: the team has scored fewer points than the Jets and the Raiders. Now that's bad.

And Eli wants to prove himself in a new offense as he has all year.

And on and on and on with the counterpoints, into an endless abyss...