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Lebron James is 1000x better than Michael Jordan

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DeezyAZ81

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 1:46 PM ET #576

Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

I like your post claw

I appreciate when folks post things to support their opinion and position

I too feel mj is the goat

But I do feel that there is a rational reason why folks keep bringing up lbj name too.....his game and productivity is trending towards GREATNESS.

Lbj is not there yet......and to me is taking a Different track/route than mj did to get to the mountain top

TRANSLATION....there are different ways to get to a destination as goat

No need to counter your excellent points.....but I will say.....mj is the goat....no debate there

But lbj is on track to be undeniably the second greatest player Of all time....and will (possibly) force folks to reassess who the real goat is once LBJ IS DONE PLAYING...this comparison cannot be made now...it is to be continued.....the cake is till baking.

### LBJ narrative is still being written ###

Lebron's productivity in the course of his Finals appearances is actually not there and nowhere close to MJ

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 1:50 PM ET #577

As the evidence mounts it doesn't look good for Lebron...............................

MJ in his 1st finals 1991..........................

Worst 3 game run.

11 - 28 = 39.3% scored 29

12-23=55%, yep his worst 3 , scored 28 pts

12-23=52.2%, scored 30 pts

3 game ave 47.9%, 6% below his regular season ave

ave 29.8 pts , just 1.7 below his regular season ave.

Lebron worst 3 games in his 1st finals shooting 38.6% , a huge 9.3 % below MJ's.

Lebron scoring ave 14 pts a whopping 15.8 pts below MJ

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 1:55 PM ET #578

MJ 2cd finals 1992........................

worst 3 game run shot 47.5%, 4.4 % below reg season ave

his worst 3 game run playing the top competition is just 4.4 % his reg season ave, a far, far cry from Lebron.

and scored 32.3 pts, 2.2 pts ABOVE season ave

Because Lebron played soooo poorly his team lost. There's a big diff between playing well and losing and playing poorly and losing.

ct1016

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Posts: 6344

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:00 PM ET #579

claw

Let me say though u are cherry picking

Last year lebron averaged

28 points

10 rebounds and

7 assists versus. Oklahoma city

I guess we want to disregard that series

To me, that renders everything mute, because if the finals is his kryptonite figuratively speaking.....then he would not have dominated that matchup with Durant

And staying on that theme.....has a Sf ever outplayed lbj?

Meaning...u left saying that guy is BETTER than lbj

Including this spurs series now....even with the off games here and there which have been cherry picked....and trust me...everybody has off games.....Popovich would take lbj over Kwai Leonard and any other sf on his roster.

And I looked back at his games in 2007 finals......lbj finals average is actually not bad.....

But why the EXTRA focus on scoring.....which is only one way to IMPACT A AMER...again, will make lbj even with the cherry picking the second greatest player of all time is the total package (TRIPLE QUINTUPLE........THE MVPs.....and his own set of PAUL BUNYUN records that he will have.....I.e., only player in NBA history with over 30000 points and 10000 assists.....think about that......scorer and passer at the highest level)

The race is on to write his legacy.....to me, barring injury, his play and numbers will prevail over the pokes and jabs over the next several years

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:01 PM ET #580

Lebron in 2012 winning the title................................

worst 3 game run..................shot 46.4%, 6.7% below reg season ave,

scored 29 pts, 1.8 pts ABOVE his season ave

You can clearly see that now his worst games aren't so bad in the year they won the title.

It's because of his much better play they won the title and because of his horrendous play the lost it...............................................

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:04 PM ET #581

Everybody has off games but your missing the point, Lebron's odff games at least to this point of the research shows his off games to be far, far worse then others.

And yes he did play better in 2012, but how do you figure 1 good NBA Finals negates 2 bad ones ??

More to come......................................

ct1016

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:05 PM ET #582

FIVE WAYS TO IMPACT A GAME

To get victories

1). Scoring......everyone knows that.....that is the sexy stat

2). REBOUNDS....

3). assists

4). Defense

5). Control tempo

Lbj dies all 5 nightly

Looking at shooting percentages is like saying that 2000 yard rusher that also had over 1000 yards receiving......missed getting a 1st down on 4th and one five times.....and he also did not get a TD in Super Bowl from one yard line....and they lost the game......he is overrated right? Wrong.

I still want the performer ....don't get hung up on stuff like that

ct1016

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:07 PM ET #583

Everybody throws out the 2007 finals

He was playing with you and me

That was an accomplishment he got you and me to the finals

He......my bad......THEY were no match vs spurs

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:07 PM ET #584

Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

My initial reaction is no

But good question?

Really did not want to dig through all that data

But if it was the worst performance we would of heard something by now. And.....as bad as folks think lbj is playing....he is heat leading scorer, rebounder, assists in this series.

Also his 33 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks had not been done in NBA finals since 1997...by mj

I think I get what is bothering his critics...it is his scoring....less than his regular season average

The strength of lbj is not just scoring....he is the total package

Like Barkley says....lbj is a nuclear weapon

But I asked a question and u answered it

So let me do some digging.

He had 1 great game so that somehow erases what likely will turnout to be one of the worst 3 game runs in NBA Finals history ?

Consistency is the sign of greatness, not a great game every blue moon............................................

ct1016

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 2:34 PM ET #585

Claw,

If finals ended now, who is the finals MVP for heat?

DeezyAZ81

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 3:36 PM ET #586

Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

Everybody throws out the 2007 finals

He was playing with you and me

That was an accomplishment he got you and me to the finals

He......my bad......THEY were no match vs spurs

You can't throw out the 2007 Finals. He played in them right? So if the Cavs had beaten the Spurs, the 2007 Finals still wouldn't have counted?

tafter12

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 3:44 PM ET #587

Michael would have had more assists if the team were allowed defend they way there are today.

DeezyAZ81

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 3:54 PM ET #588

Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

Claw,

If finals ended now, who is the finals MVP for heat?

Finals don't end when the series is tied and would be too hard to determine right now for heat. Bron has had some bad games this series so would be MVP? I think Wades performance was the best performance any Heat member had all series last game.

KobezKing

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Posts: 16153

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 6:20 PM ET #589

So ct ur really puttin lebrons game 4 in historical context with mj????? Thats the reason why i said he was padding stats and u fell right into the hype. He had 9 meaningless pts against the jv team when game was out of reach. Lebron has 84 pts or so in finals and at least 30 of them have been in garbage time. So about 38% of all his points have been meaningless. Its so annoying when lebron plays bad its everyone else fault cuz lebron does everythinh else and when heat win its all cuz lebron is so good. And to me the assist is the most overrated stat in basketball. Ur relying on someone else to raise ur stats. If ray allen hits a fall away 3 at buzzer lebron gets credit for pass. And he should average alot of assists he has the ball the entire game. To me lebron during regular season is all time great. But in huge games he just a average all star. And u say he dominated durant last year. Durant averaged more points and i believe higher %. Thats funny u say durant got dominated. It couldnt have anything to do with harden not showing up

ct1016

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 6:52 PM ET #590

Sorry.....saw that on tv

Really did....it was in either espn or NBA tv

The comment was only relevant due to someone micro analyzing lebron's numbers.

No one likes mj more than I......I cheered like crazy when he hit the shot vs Georgetown

And followed mj career like a pop a razzi fan until he retired.....

Mj > lbj

Yes that's true

I am now a pop a razzi fan of lbj.......to me, I see greatness there too

It is a different trajectory than mj....but it is still greatness we are witnessing with lbj

ct1016

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Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 6:55 PM ET #591

My comment about Durant ...was when the series ended....most folks concluded lbj was better than Durant

Even Durant said that too.....nit verbatim .....but read his comments and exit interviews

"Lbj was special.....I never saw him play like that.....I got to get better"

Or something like that....(I think)

ct1016

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Posts: 6344

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 7:01 PM ET #592

And don't take this the wrong way

I am not surprise that a Kobe fan would think the assist is overrated

1). Kobe led league in field goal attempts even though he had a post presence that was special with gasol and Howard

Wow!!!!

2). Kobe own words. To his teammates

" all I see is the rim.....y'all need to holler or yell at me....cause all I see is that rim"

Although I am lol......those were his words

But back to your question

The assist is special because

1). The ball moves quicker than the man...so move the ball

2). An assist is 2 or 3 points...goal is to get points

And probably most importantly

3). The assist gets and keeps your teammates in the game.....increases your chances of winning.......

And when you give the ball to others thy will also give it back to you

Team chemistry

As for why this is special with lbj

Because he delivers the ball on time and accurately at a High and consistent level

His career assists will show and prove he dud it better than many point guards...and that is not his position

HeadOverHeart

Hall of Fame

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Posts: 22502

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 10:27 PM ET #593

Quote Originally Posted by ddjf:

1990s knicks will f u up. Bad boy Pistons. You can see the life sucked out of James early on. Very gifted player has all physical attributes.

Bingo.

James would take at least four massively hard fouls in the first quarter alone when he tries to run from the three line to right under the basket, as he does now. Today's game, the players just part the Red Sea and let him through. 25 years ago, Laimbeer would be waiting for him and plant a forearm across his face and send him into the third row of photographers.

iamnotpeterose

Prospect

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Posts: 274

Posted: Jun. 15, 2013 - 10:36 PM ET #594

Lbj is more physically gifted and in the end I would not be surprised if it shakes out that he was the goat. However, michael had the intensity and will to win that was unmatched. To think I actually convinced myself that the Knicks had some chance against them. Patrick and a group if mediocre role players, but we all loved them because they gave every last ounce.

Michael is still the best IMHO but lbj is as physically gifted as any athlete I have ever seen - wilt was before my time

beef1124

Prospect

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Posts: 3

Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 12:15 AM ET #595

Jordan Gretzky Rice Rose the best in all major sports. no questions.

MoneyMaker000

Banned

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Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 12:36 AM ET #596

lebron not even close 2 mj right now...

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 11:05 AM ET #597

Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:

My initial reaction is no

But good question?

Really did not want to dig through all that data

But if it was the worst performance we would of heard something by now. And.....as bad as folks think lbj is playing....he is heat leading scorer, rebounder, assists in this series.

Also his 33 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks had not been done in NBA finals since 1997...by mj

I think I get what is bothering his critics...it is his scoring....less than his regular season average

The strength of lbj is not just scoring....he is the total package

Like Barkley says....lbj is a nuclear weapon

But I asked a question and u answered it

So let me do some digging.

Lebron does many things well for sure. But that stat line got me thinking, what makes it special so the pundits can say no-one has ever done it in years ?

Many players have gotten 33 pts and 11 rebs in finals games. Getting those 2 steals and 2 blocks adds something other players who get pts and rebs can't do.

How much impact on determining the winner does 2 steals and 2 blocks have ?

I'd say a very small impact when compared to shooting a high or low % and scoring more or less pts. Had Lebron ave 52% in the 1st 3 games instead of 38.8% it's very likely the Heat would of led 2-1 instead of trailing 2-1, regardless of whether or not he got an additional 2 steals and 2 blocks.

Shooting 14% higher from the field will impact the game quite a bit more than getting an additional 2 steals and 2 blocks.

I'm not trying to discredit Lebron from being an all-around player but were he can have the biggest impact he clearly has failed.

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 11:24 AM ET #598

And that brings us to this.............................................

How often does a player shot his regular season ave or better and how often does a player score his regular season ave in pts ?

MJ in his 1st 2 finals....................shot his regular season ave or better 6 of 11 times 54.5%

Lebron.................3 of 11 , 27.2%

MJ pts scored at reg season ave --- 7 of 11, 63.6%

Lebron --- 2 of 11, 18.2 %

Games a player shot below 5% of reg season ave....................

MJ --- 2 of 11, 18.2%, wow MJ rarely had a bad shooting game

Lebron --- 7 of 11, 63.6 % of games Lebron shot worse than 5% below is reg season ave

While MJ is the smybol of scoring consistency Lebron is the complete opposite.

And Lebron is at it again in this years final.................................

1 of 4 games 25% above reg season ave %

1 of 4 games 25% above reg season ave pts

Shot worse than 5% in 3 of 4 games 75%, has shot 10% worse in 3 of 4 games , ouch !!!

This would seem to indicate that yes Lebron does build his stats against the weaker teams.

theclaw

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Posts: 12121

Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 11:35 AM ET #599

1985 NBA FINALS................................LA beat Boston

Lakers leading scorer was Kareem.

worst 3 games in % --- 59%, just .9% below his regular season ave, but he scored 28.7 pts in those 3 games, 6.7 pts above his season ave.

1 of 6 , 16.7%games he shot worse than 5% below his regular season ave.

Bird the leading scorer on Boston

worst 3 games in % --- 43.1 % , 9.1% below his reg season ave

scored 25.3 pts, 3.4 below his reg season ave.

The info seems to indicate as your best player goes, so does your team......................Bird's worst games still were much better than Lebrons worst games.

TimTowner

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Posts: 2627

Posted: Jun. 16, 2013 - 11:04 PM ET #600

Lebron's not even the best player in this Finals series

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Lebron James is 1000x better than Michael Jordan

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