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All Forums | MLB Betting

Phillies vs Dodgers in NLCS who ya got?

«First Previous 456 ... 678 Next Last»
TigerPawsSC
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TigerPawsSC
TigerPawsSC
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Joined: Nov, 2005
Posts: 58
Posted: Oct. 13, 2009 - 11:53 PM ET #76

Quote Originally Posted by Stuckey:

Oh, and before I forget...

You said above:  It makes about as much sense as betting your house on St. Louis, as some schlub wanted us to do last week.


Who gives a fuck if that guy was wrong?  People can't make predictions?  That is what this forum is for.  People take a stand and give their reasons.  Don't shit on him because he was wrong.  I take stands and am wrong all the time.    You act like you know everything about baseball.  You said the Rocks had a pitching advantage in every game Ubaldo pitches and you saw them winning in 4.  So, like I said, one of us is wrong.  We have strong opinions.  Let's let them play it the fuck out.


I did say that. When I said it, Hamels was slated as the game one starter. Ubaldo Jimenez is a better pitcher than Cole Hamels.

He's not (yet) a better pitcher than Cliff Lee. Lee was given the nod the next day, so that obviously changes the dynamics a little bit. Ubaldo Jimenez over Cole Hamels is a no brainer. Over Cliff Lee? Not so much.

And I never said the Rockies would "win" in 4. I said they had a chance to win the series. When the pitching matchups changed and the Phillies made the right choice, it changed things a little bit. The Phils won two close games, and the rest is history.

With that said, I've brought hard, cold data to this fight.

You've brought conjecture about the Phillies pitching staff that just isn't true.

Clayton Kershaw, according to the numbers, has been better than Cliff Lee this season by a little margin.

At every single spot in the rotation, the Dodgers have the better arm. The data shows that, and it's been proven over the course of 162 games.

Certainly it's baseball, so anything could happen. But I like to discuss probabilities, not possibilities.
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Quote Originally Posted by Stuckey:

Oh, and before I forget...

You said above:  It makes about as much sense as betting your house on St. Louis, as some schlub wanted us to do last week.


Who gives a fuck if that guy was wrong?  People can't make predictions?  That is what this forum is for.  People take a stand and give their reasons.  Don't shit on him because he was wrong.  I take stands and am wrong all the time.    You act like you know everything about baseball.  You said the Rocks had a pitching advantage in every game Ubaldo pitches and you saw them winning in 4.  So, like I said, one of us is wrong.  We have strong opinions.  Let's let them play it the fuck out.


I did say that. When I said it, Hamels was slated as the game one starter. Ubaldo Jimenez is a better pitcher than Cole Hamels.

He's not (yet) a better pitcher than Cliff Lee. Lee was given the nod the next day, so that obviously changes the dynamics a little bit. Ubaldo Jimenez over Cole Hamels is a no brainer. Over Cliff Lee? Not so much.

And I never said the Rockies would "win" in 4. I said they had a chance to win the series. When the pitching matchups changed and the Phillies made the right choice, it changed things a little bit. The Phils won two close games, and the rest is history.

With that said, I've brought hard, cold data to this fight.

You've brought conjecture about the Phillies pitching staff that just isn't true.

Clayton Kershaw, according to the numbers, has been better than Cliff Lee this season by a little margin.

At every single spot in the rotation, the Dodgers have the better arm. The data shows that, and it's been proven over the course of 162 games.

Certainly it's baseball, so anything could happen. But I like to discuss probabilities, not possibilities.
 
Pai_Gow_Player
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Posted: Oct. 13, 2009 - 11:54 PM ET #77

<~~~~~~~~ not a dodgers fan


GO
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<~~~~~~~~ not a dodgers fan


GO
 
behdthscene
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 1:01 AM ET #78

Quote Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC:



I did say that. When I said it, Hamels was slated as the game one starter. Ubaldo Jimenez is a better pitcher than Cole Hamels.

He's not (yet) a better pitcher than Cliff Lee. Lee was given the nod the next day, so that obviously changes the dynamics a little bit. Ubaldo Jimenez over Cole Hamels is a no brainer. Over Cliff Lee? Not so much.

And I never said the Rockies would "win" in 4. I said they had a chance to win the series. When the pitching matchups changed and the Phillies made the right choice, it changed things a little bit. The Phils won two close games, and the rest is history.

With that said, I've brought hard, cold data to this fight.

You've brought conjecture about the Phillies pitching staff that just isn't true.

Clayton Kershaw, according to the numbers, has been better than Cliff Lee this season by a little margin.

At every single spot in the rotation, the Dodgers have the better arm. The data shows that, and it's been proven over the course of 162 games.

Certainly it's baseball, so anything could happen. But I like to discuss probabilities, not possibilities.

Can LAD pitch @PHI and vs. these particular hitters? I don't care what the LAD staff has done vs. COL, STL, or any other team since they are on vacation and not playing in this series. If you take a look at LAD SP and RP, you won't be happy.

 

In addition, I understand that LAD has home field, but Hamels, Happ, and Lee can pitch on the road, which pretty much negates home field.

 

 

 

 

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Quote Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC:



I did say that. When I said it, Hamels was slated as the game one starter. Ubaldo Jimenez is a better pitcher than Cole Hamels.

He's not (yet) a better pitcher than Cliff Lee. Lee was given the nod the next day, so that obviously changes the dynamics a little bit. Ubaldo Jimenez over Cole Hamels is a no brainer. Over Cliff Lee? Not so much.

And I never said the Rockies would "win" in 4. I said they had a chance to win the series. When the pitching matchups changed and the Phillies made the right choice, it changed things a little bit. The Phils won two close games, and the rest is history.

With that said, I've brought hard, cold data to this fight.

You've brought conjecture about the Phillies pitching staff that just isn't true.

Clayton Kershaw, according to the numbers, has been better than Cliff Lee this season by a little margin.

At every single spot in the rotation, the Dodgers have the better arm. The data shows that, and it's been proven over the course of 162 games.

Certainly it's baseball, so anything could happen. But I like to discuss probabilities, not possibilities.

Can LAD pitch @PHI and vs. these particular hitters? I don't care what the LAD staff has done vs. COL, STL, or any other team since they are on vacation and not playing in this series. If you take a look at LAD SP and RP, you won't be happy.

 

In addition, I understand that LAD has home field, but Hamels, Happ, and Lee can pitch on the road, which pretty much negates home field.

 

 

 

 

 
SCROG
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 1:09 AM ET #79

Dodgers in 7. It's gonna be classic. Because, Tommy Lasorda says so. Yeah, that simple.
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Dodgers in 7. It's gonna be classic. Because, Tommy Lasorda says so. Yeah, that simple.
 
TigerPawsSC
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 1:22 AM ET #80

Quote Originally Posted by behdthscene:

Can LAD pitch @PHI and vs. these particular hitters? I don't care what the LAD staff has done vs. COL, STL, or any other team since they are on vacation and not playing in this series. If you take a look at LAD SP and RP, you won't be happy.

 

In addition, I understand that LAD has home field, but Hamels, Happ, and Lee can pitch on the road, which pretty much negates home field.

 

 

 

 



With all due respect, "look at the numbers" is something that I've done, for much longer than most people would ever want to.

What you're falling victim to is being a slave to small sample sizes. Major league hitters are major league hitters, for the most part.

By putting too much trust in one start (or 2, or 5) against one team, you're neglecting reams of data that can give you a true picture of what a guy's going to do.

Too many factors impact small sample sizes. Guys have bad days. Guys have great days. In short spurts, players perform over their heads and under their abilities. Over the long haul, it's hard to sustain a level of success above your abilities.

That's why it's best to use as large a sample size as you can to determine a guy's true capability.

And I think it's worth noting that J.A. Happ's peripheral numbers (k-rate, flyball rate, walk rate, line drive rate) indicated that he was a pretty average pitcher who get very fortunate at times this season.

He's also a rookie who's been extended. If you expect J.A. Happ to pitch like a 3.00 ERA pitcher, you're in for a rude awakening. According to his FIP, he's been much close to a 4.3 ERA pitcher this season.
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Quote Originally Posted by behdthscene:

Can LAD pitch @PHI and vs. these particular hitters? I don't care what the LAD staff has done vs. COL, STL, or any other team since they are on vacation and not playing in this series. If you take a look at LAD SP and RP, you won't be happy.

 

In addition, I understand that LAD has home field, but Hamels, Happ, and Lee can pitch on the road, which pretty much negates home field.

 

 

 

 



With all due respect, "look at the numbers" is something that I've done, for much longer than most people would ever want to.

What you're falling victim to is being a slave to small sample sizes. Major league hitters are major league hitters, for the most part.

By putting too much trust in one start (or 2, or 5) against one team, you're neglecting reams of data that can give you a true picture of what a guy's going to do.

Too many factors impact small sample sizes. Guys have bad days. Guys have great days. In short spurts, players perform over their heads and under their abilities. Over the long haul, it's hard to sustain a level of success above your abilities.

That's why it's best to use as large a sample size as you can to determine a guy's true capability.

And I think it's worth noting that J.A. Happ's peripheral numbers (k-rate, flyball rate, walk rate, line drive rate) indicated that he was a pretty average pitcher who get very fortunate at times this season.

He's also a rookie who's been extended. If you expect J.A. Happ to pitch like a 3.00 ERA pitcher, you're in for a rude awakening. According to his FIP, he's been much close to a 4.3 ERA pitcher this season.
 
Loso
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 10:53 AM ET #81

Quote Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC:



It looks like I'm going to have to make someone look silly for the second straight week.

People who don't know much about baseball should stop pretending that they do. I'd also like to hear a response from someone who doesn't a picture of a green bird or the location "Pennsylvania" in their avatar.

Now, let's get to the facts.

Starting pitching even is comical.

I agree! The Dodgers' pitching outclasses the Philly pitching in pretty much every regard.

Starting pitchers ERA:

Dodgers: 3.58
Phillies: 4.29

And because ERA is a pretty incomplete stat, FIP for SP:

Dodgers (3rd in baseball): 3.83
Phillies (20th in baseball): 4.46

Strikeouts/9 innings

Dodgers: 7.54
Phillies: 6.87

Batting average against:

Dodgers: .235
Phillies: .273

Swings outside of the strike zone induced:

Dodgers: 26.9%
Phillies: 24.5%

Contact on outside swings:

Dodgers: 62.5%
Phillies: 65.4%

So, as we see, the Dodgers pitching staff outclassed the Phillies pitching staff in a big way this year in a ton of different categories. Phillies play in a tough ballpark, obviously, but even the park-adjusted stats like the Dodgers' staff a ton more than the Phillies' staff.

You say all we have is Lee.  You guys have nothing.

I wouldn't say that Lee is all but that's pretty close to being right.

Oh, and on to the other point.

FIP:

Clayton Kershaw: 3.08

Cliff Lee: 3.11

It's a wash.

ERA

Kershaw: 2.8

Lee: 3.2

Kershaw strikes out 50% more guys, Lee walks way less guys. Once again, it's a wash.

These are two lefties who were, for all intents and purposes, exactly as effective this season. They did it in different ways, but according to FIP (Fielding independent pitching), they were the same amount of good.

Hamels, our clear cut second, is better than any one of your starters and absolutely kills the Dodgers.

No. He's not.

Hamels FIP:

3.72

Clayton Kershaw FIP: 3.08, Billingsley FIP: 3.82, Wolf FIP: 3.96, Vicente Padilla FIP (in 7 starts): 3.40

Hamels ERA:

4.32

Kershaw ERA: 2.8, Bills ERA: 4.03, Wolf ERA: 3.23, Padilla ERA: 3.20, Kuroda: 3.76

Hamels GB %: 40.4

Kuroda: 49.5%, Padilla: 46.7%, Billingsley: 45.3%, Kershaw: 39.4%, WolfL 39.6%

I've given you 5 starters with an ERA lower than Hamels' ERA. I've given you guys with better FIP numbers. I've given you a laundry list of guys who get more ground balls.

So, like I said, you're clearly wrong about Cole Hamels.

Blanton, Pedro and Happ have been consistent all year.

Inconsequential. They've been consistent enough to be a part of a starting rotation that ranks 20th out of 30 ML teams in FIP.

You guys have ZERO consistency in your rotation.

This doesn't even make sense. The Dodgers led the big leagues in ERA this year by like .3. They were a third of a run better than every other team in the majors.

"Consistency"? I'll just take being good.

Here you once again prove that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. If the Phillies were "consistent" in their pitching staff, it was "consistently" mediocre.

You don't post the majors' lowest ERA (by a ton) without being consistently GOOD.

Starting pitching: HUGE Phillies advantage

ERA: Phillies: 4.29, Dodgers: 3.58
FIP: Phillies: 4.46, Dodgers: 3.83

I think we've proven that this is a blatant lie. If anything the Dodgers pitching is an advantage in this series.

Starting lineup: COMICAL Phillies advantage

wOBA:

Phillies: .340
Dodgers: .331

OBP

Phillies: .334
Dodgers: .346

The Phillies have the better offense...slightly. When you take into account park effects, it's pretty close. This is hardly what you'd call a "comical" advantage.

Intangibles/Experience: Phillies advantage

Leave it to someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about to think that intangibles play a role in who wins baseball games.

Honestly, what the hell does this even mean?

I also don't think the fact that Jimmy Rollins played in the World Series last year is going to have anything to do with how well he plays in the NLCS this year.

Do you also believe in the Easter bunny? Santa Claus? Ferries? Dragons?

Home field: Yes, you have it, but the Phils are the best road team in baseball

True, until you consider that they were 35-13 against:

Florida, Cincy, Mets, Pirates, Zona, San Diego, Toronto, and Washington.

Sweet, they piled up a ton of road wins against the worst teams in the NL and an AL East bottom feeder.

Phils in six.

Fitting. When all evidence shows that the Dodgers are the better team overall here, choose the other side. It makes sense.

The Dodgers win the most games in the NL in the toughest division in the NL. They've got better starting pitching AT THE TOP and top to bottom, they've got an offense that's only slightly worse, and they've got a bullpen that's markedly better...oh yeah, plus they get to play at home. But pick the Phillies. It makes about as much sense as betting your house on St. Louis, as some schlub wanted us to do last week.

/I win.


THANK GOD the game is played on the field and not paper.

Phillies (World Champions who know what it takes)

Vs.

Dodgers (Washed up pitchers-Padilla/Garland-and steroid users)

/U STAY LOSING.
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Quote Originally Posted by TigerPawsSC:



It looks like I'm going to have to make someone look silly for the second straight week.

People who don't know much about baseball should stop pretending that they do. I'd also like to hear a response from someone who doesn't a picture of a green bird or the location "Pennsylvania" in their avatar.

Now, let's get to the facts.

Starting pitching even is comical.

I agree! The Dodgers' pitching outclasses the Philly pitching in pretty much every regard.

Starting pitchers ERA:

Dodgers: 3.58
Phillies: 4.29

And because ERA is a pretty incomplete stat, FIP for SP:

Dodgers (3rd in baseball): 3.83
Phillies (20th in baseball): 4.46

Strikeouts/9 innings

Dodgers: 7.54
Phillies: 6.87

Batting average against:

Dodgers: .235
Phillies: .273

Swings outside of the strike zone induced:

Dodgers: 26.9%
Phillies: 24.5%

Contact on outside swings:

Dodgers: 62.5%
Phillies: 65.4%

So, as we see, the Dodgers pitching staff outclassed the Phillies pitching staff in a big way this year in a ton of different categories. Phillies play in a tough ballpark, obviously, but even the park-adjusted stats like the Dodgers' staff a ton more than the Phillies' staff.

You say all we have is Lee.  You guys have nothing.

I wouldn't say that Lee is all but that's pretty close to being right.

Oh, and on to the other point.

FIP:

Clayton Kershaw: 3.08

Cliff Lee: 3.11

It's a wash.

ERA

Kershaw: 2.8

Lee: 3.2

Kershaw strikes out 50% more guys, Lee walks way less guys. Once again, it's a wash.

These are two lefties who were, for all intents and purposes, exactly as effective this season. They did it in different ways, but according to FIP (Fielding independent pitching), they were the same amount of good.

Hamels, our clear cut second, is better than any one of your starters and absolutely kills the Dodgers.

No. He's not.

Hamels FIP:

3.72

Clayton Kershaw FIP: 3.08, Billingsley FIP: 3.82, Wolf FIP: 3.96, Vicente Padilla FIP (in 7 starts): 3.40

Hamels ERA:

4.32

Kershaw ERA: 2.8, Bills ERA: 4.03, Wolf ERA: 3.23, Padilla ERA: 3.20, Kuroda: 3.76

Hamels GB %: 40.4

Kuroda: 49.5%, Padilla: 46.7%, Billingsley: 45.3%, Kershaw: 39.4%, WolfL 39.6%

I've given you 5 starters with an ERA lower than Hamels' ERA. I've given you guys with better FIP numbers. I've given you a laundry list of guys who get more ground balls.

So, like I said, you're clearly wrong about Cole Hamels.

Blanton, Pedro and Happ have been consistent all year.

Inconsequential. They've been consistent enough to be a part of a starting rotation that ranks 20th out of 30 ML teams in FIP.

You guys have ZERO consistency in your rotation.

This doesn't even make sense. The Dodgers led the big leagues in ERA this year by like .3. They were a third of a run better than every other team in the majors.

"Consistency"? I'll just take being good.

Here you once again prove that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. If the Phillies were "consistent" in their pitching staff, it was "consistently" mediocre.

You don't post the majors' lowest ERA (by a ton) without being consistently GOOD.

Starting pitching: HUGE Phillies advantage

ERA: Phillies: 4.29, Dodgers: 3.58
FIP: Phillies: 4.46, Dodgers: 3.83

I think we've proven that this is a blatant lie. If anything the Dodgers pitching is an advantage in this series.

Starting lineup: COMICAL Phillies advantage

wOBA:

Phillies: .340
Dodgers: .331

OBP

Phillies: .334
Dodgers: .346

The Phillies have the better offense...slightly. When you take into account park effects, it's pretty close. This is hardly what you'd call a "comical" advantage.

Intangibles/Experience: Phillies advantage

Leave it to someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about to think that intangibles play a role in who wins baseball games.

Honestly, what the hell does this even mean?

I also don't think the fact that Jimmy Rollins played in the World Series last year is going to have anything to do with how well he plays in the NLCS this year.

Do you also believe in the Easter bunny? Santa Claus? Ferries? Dragons?

Home field: Yes, you have it, but the Phils are the best road team in baseball

True, until you consider that they were 35-13 against:

Florida, Cincy, Mets, Pirates, Zona, San Diego, Toronto, and Washington.

Sweet, they piled up a ton of road wins against the worst teams in the NL and an AL East bottom feeder.

Phils in six.

Fitting. When all evidence shows that the Dodgers are the better team overall here, choose the other side. It makes sense.

The Dodgers win the most games in the NL in the toughest division in the NL. They've got better starting pitching AT THE TOP and top to bottom, they've got an offense that's only slightly worse, and they've got a bullpen that's markedly better...oh yeah, plus they get to play at home. But pick the Phillies. It makes about as much sense as betting your house on St. Louis, as some schlub wanted us to do last week.

/I win.


THANK GOD the game is played on the field and not paper.

Phillies (World Champions who know what it takes)

Vs.

Dodgers (Washed up pitchers-Padilla/Garland-and steroid users)

/U STAY LOSING.
 
Loso
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 10:53 AM ET #82

Seriously, STL's offence is pathetic compared to Philly.
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Seriously, STL's offence is pathetic compared to Philly.
 
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 12:37 PM ET #83

Uhhh yeah Loso and St. Louis starting pitching rotation AND bullpen is way better than the Phillies and in case you forgot good pitching beats good hitting, just look at the All Star games you know.  Come up with something better. 
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Uhhh yeah Loso and St. Louis starting pitching rotation AND bullpen is way better than the Phillies and in case you forgot good pitching beats good hitting, just look at the All Star games you know.  Come up with something better. 
 
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 12:48 PM ET #84

The Los Angeles Dodgers surprised us by going through the great St. Louis Cardinals pitching staff so easily, and they are now our choice to advance to the World Series by defeating the Philadelphia Phillies in the NLCS.

This is a rematch of the 2008 NLCS, when the Phillies advanced in five games, but there is a big difference between last year and this season. Remember that Cole Hamels, Brett Myers and Joe Blanton were all pitching out of their minds last year, and Brad Lidge did not blow a save all year.

However, this Philadelphia staff is simply not that intimidating. Hamels had a very disappointing season, and he was the only Phillie to lose a game in the NLDS vs. the Colorado Rockies, and Lidge went from not blowing any saves to leading the Major Leagues in blown saves this season. Other than the newly acquired Cliff Lee, who is truly a stud, the rest of the Philadelphia staff does not really impress us.

As for the Dodgers, sure, their starters do not look as good as they did earlier in the year, but Clayton Kershaw has looked great since returning from his injury, Vicente Padilla has been a pleasant surprise and opening day starter Hiroki Kuroda should be back for this series. On top of that, the Dodgers’ excellent bullpen ERA of 3.18 was the best in the Major Leagues by a wide margin, as the San Francisco Giants finished well back in second at 3.50.

Remember that pitching means everything in a short series and the Dodgers appear to be better equipped at this time, unless Hamels suddenly rediscovers his 2008 form. Game 1 of this series this becomes more critical that usual, and if the Dodgers can prevail at home vs. Hamels, we will love our chances of cashing this ticket.

Dodgers in 6

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The Los Angeles Dodgers surprised us by going through the great St. Louis Cardinals pitching staff so easily, and they are now our choice to advance to the World Series by defeating the Philadelphia Phillies in the NLCS.

This is a rematch of the 2008 NLCS, when the Phillies advanced in five games, but there is a big difference between last year and this season. Remember that Cole Hamels, Brett Myers and Joe Blanton were all pitching out of their minds last year, and Brad Lidge did not blow a save all year.

However, this Philadelphia staff is simply not that intimidating. Hamels had a very disappointing season, and he was the only Phillie to lose a game in the NLDS vs. the Colorado Rockies, and Lidge went from not blowing any saves to leading the Major Leagues in blown saves this season. Other than the newly acquired Cliff Lee, who is truly a stud, the rest of the Philadelphia staff does not really impress us.

As for the Dodgers, sure, their starters do not look as good as they did earlier in the year, but Clayton Kershaw has looked great since returning from his injury, Vicente Padilla has been a pleasant surprise and opening day starter Hiroki Kuroda should be back for this series. On top of that, the Dodgers’ excellent bullpen ERA of 3.18 was the best in the Major Leagues by a wide margin, as the San Francisco Giants finished well back in second at 3.50.

Remember that pitching means everything in a short series and the Dodgers appear to be better equipped at this time, unless Hamels suddenly rediscovers his 2008 form. Game 1 of this series this becomes more critical that usual, and if the Dodgers can prevail at home vs. Hamels, we will love our chances of cashing this ticket.

Dodgers in 6

 
Sparky10191
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 12:48 PM ET #85

Dodgers Win
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Dodgers Win
 
Skeet_Skeet
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 5:07 PM ET #86

And let's not forget before Torre came to LA last the Dodgers were not a winning ball club that ended in 4th place and with no stars.  Just think back to 2007 anyone that stood out?  Philly on the other hand has had a lot of stars.  We only have Manny.  Since Torre took over this young ballclub last year and what is the first thing he does?  He takes them straight to the playoffs NLCS series. 

Under Torres leadership he developed these young players into upcoming stars Ethier and Kemp and created motivation and a winning atmosphere in the clubhouse.  He has taken teams to a record high 14th straight playoffs! That's right count it if you can count that high.  Sure you can say it was easier with the Yankees with their loaded talent and payroll but two straight immediately after taking over the Dodgers with their roster? Yeah  How many managers do YOU know that can do that???

And those talking about oh we crushed you last year....... well that was last year, it's 2009 ya Beezies!  This year Torre has had some time to develop this team.  And please don't even mention Charlie Manual's name in any shape or form with Torre as he is not even in same League. Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
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And let's not forget before Torre came to LA last the Dodgers were not a winning ball club that ended in 4th place and with no stars.  Just think back to 2007 anyone that stood out?  Philly on the other hand has had a lot of stars.  We only have Manny.  Since Torre took over this young ballclub last year and what is the first thing he does?  He takes them straight to the playoffs NLCS series. 

Under Torres leadership he developed these young players into upcoming stars Ethier and Kemp and created motivation and a winning atmosphere in the clubhouse.  He has taken teams to a record high 14th straight playoffs! That's right count it if you can count that high.  Sure you can say it was easier with the Yankees with their loaded talent and payroll but two straight immediately after taking over the Dodgers with their roster? Yeah  How many managers do YOU know that can do that???

And those talking about oh we crushed you last year....... well that was last year, it's 2009 ya Beezies!  This year Torre has had some time to develop this team.  And please don't even mention Charlie Manual's name in any shape or form with Torre as he is not even in same League. Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
 
crushalot22
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 5:18 PM ET #87

DODGERS      in    5           
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DODGERS      in    5           
 
angelobruno
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 5:51 PM ET #88

ya ll talking that cklayton kershaw  garbage like hes the best thing since sliced bread and he wont pitch till game 4  because he pitched the other day in arizona , unless hes used in bullpen . i know hes a good hard throwing young stud but the phillies will kill this kid   PHILLS IN 6 
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ya ll talking that cklayton kershaw  garbage like hes the best thing since sliced bread and he wont pitch till game 4  because he pitched the other day in arizona , unless hes used in bullpen . i know hes a good hard throwing young stud but the phillies will kill this kid   PHILLS IN 6 
 
angelobruno
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 5:54 PM ET #89

MY BAD HES STARTING ON THURSDAY
 
EVEN BETTER
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MY BAD HES STARTING ON THURSDAY
 
EVEN BETTER
 
Skeet_Skeet
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 7:25 PM ET #90

Gay-Tor why does it not surprise me another Philly fan stuck in 2008? And your statement "the guy got out managed last year by someone who doesn't even speak english" Do you even remember 2008?  Of course Philly had an edge with their stacked roster.  Torre came into a losing ball club his first year and took them to the NLCS.  Would Manual have been able to do that? Uhhh yeah I don't think so.  So shut your pie hole. If ANY manager had the Phillies roster seems a lot easier doesn't it Genius? Or have you not thought that through with your half a brain, kind of hard when you have the semi-intelligence of a rock.

And again the same old argument and story about your hitters blah blah blah.  Read my prior posts.

And what was that "Torre- a complete wash???" Are you kidding me?  Your comparing Manuel to Torre?  Let me take you on a history ride to memory lane.  Are you talking about the same Manuel who got his team swept at HOME in 2007 in a 7 game series by the WILD CARD Rockies??? LOL  It's not even like you played Boston or the Yankees. Why don't u just stick to football and keep drinking that Hater-ade or better yet stick a phat Philly cheesestake down your throat and choke on it. 
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Gay-Tor why does it not surprise me another Philly fan stuck in 2008? And your statement "the guy got out managed last year by someone who doesn't even speak english" Do you even remember 2008?  Of course Philly had an edge with their stacked roster.  Torre came into a losing ball club his first year and took them to the NLCS.  Would Manual have been able to do that? Uhhh yeah I don't think so.  So shut your pie hole. If ANY manager had the Phillies roster seems a lot easier doesn't it Genius? Or have you not thought that through with your half a brain, kind of hard when you have the semi-intelligence of a rock.

And again the same old argument and story about your hitters blah blah blah.  Read my prior posts.

And what was that "Torre- a complete wash???" Are you kidding me?  Your comparing Manuel to Torre?  Let me take you on a history ride to memory lane.  Are you talking about the same Manuel who got his team swept at HOME in 2007 in a 7 game series by the WILD CARD Rockies??? LOL  It's not even like you played Boston or the Yankees. Why don't u just stick to football and keep drinking that Hater-ade or better yet stick a phat Philly cheesestake down your throat and choke on it. 
 
Skubishack
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 7:31 PM ET #91

Yo Phillies!!! Kick some ass will ya!!!!
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Yo Phillies!!! Kick some ass will ya!!!!
 
Stuckey
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 9:32 PM ET #92

skeet, if you haven't noticed, people are only responding to sc and I since nobody understands your jibberish.

ESPN insider did their preview today for the series.  Were they reading my posts first?

L.A. has no lefty advantage?

4:02PM ET
Los Angeles Dodgers
Top

The Los Angeles Dodgers will open the National League Championship Series by starting two left-handed pitchers in the first two games at Dodgers Stadium. This, traditionally, would give them an advantage over a Philadelphia Phillies team that leans heavily on left-handed hitters Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Raul Ibanez.

But as The Good Phight points out via Jon Weisman of the L.A. Times, the left-on-left advantage may be overblown in this series, and not because the Dodgers' southpaws aren't nasty.

While Howard struggles versus left-handers to the tune of a .653 OPS, Utley and Ibanez have had great success this season against lefties, each posting an OPS well over .900. Furthermore, Jayson Werth, Jimmy Rollins, and most of the rest of the Phillies starting lineup, is significantly better against left-handers than right-handers.

The first two games in L.A. could be decided by how well Randy Wolf and Clayton Kershaw handle the middle of the Phillies' batting order.


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skeet, if you haven't noticed, people are only responding to sc and I since nobody understands your jibberish.

ESPN insider did their preview today for the series.  Were they reading my posts first?

L.A. has no lefty advantage?

4:02PM ET
Los Angeles Dodgers
Top

The Los Angeles Dodgers will open the National League Championship Series by starting two left-handed pitchers in the first two games at Dodgers Stadium. This, traditionally, would give them an advantage over a Philadelphia Phillies team that leans heavily on left-handed hitters Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Raul Ibanez.

But as The Good Phight points out via Jon Weisman of the L.A. Times, the left-on-left advantage may be overblown in this series, and not because the Dodgers' southpaws aren't nasty.

While Howard struggles versus left-handers to the tune of a .653 OPS, Utley and Ibanez have had great success this season against lefties, each posting an OPS well over .900. Furthermore, Jayson Werth, Jimmy Rollins, and most of the rest of the Phillies starting lineup, is significantly better against left-handers than right-handers.

The first two games in L.A. could be decided by how well Randy Wolf and Clayton Kershaw handle the middle of the Phillies' batting order.


 
Stuckey
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 9:33 PM ET #93

Also this in another article:

Kershaw's greatest challenge, in pitching against the extraordinarily patient veterans of the Phillies, is to be efficient, to not get into a situation in which he throws 50 pitches in the first two innings and is out of the game sometime in the fifth inning. The left-hander averages 17.7 pitches per inning, a very high rate.
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Also this in another article:

Kershaw's greatest challenge, in pitching against the extraordinarily patient veterans of the Phillies, is to be efficient, to not get into a situation in which he throws 50 pitches in the first two innings and is out of the game sometime in the fifth inning. The left-hander averages 17.7 pitches per inning, a very high rate.
 
Stuckey
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Posted: Oct. 14, 2009 - 9:35 PM ET #94

And, this....like I said, it was his slider that was causing him trouble amongst mental issues.  Fastball just a small, small part of the problem.

Along the way, the Phillies lost some games they should have won, but Manuel understood that the Phillies were at their best when Lidge was at his best, and he patiently waited for Lidge to find himself and his slider.

And that's what was missing from Lidge this past summer, some rival scouts believe; he just wasn't throwing his slider with the same conviction or consistency as he had in the past. He would throw two good ones and then a really bad one, and it would get whacked, and Lidge would get beaten.


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And, this....like I said, it was his slider that was causing him trouble amongst mental issues.  Fastball just a small, small part of the problem.

Along the way, the Phillies lost some games they should have won, but Manuel understood that the Phillies were at their best when Lidge was at his best, and he patiently waited for Lidge to find himself and his slider.

And that's what was missing from Lidge this past summer, some rival scouts believe; he just wasn't throwing his slider with the same conviction or consistency as he had in the past. He would throw two good ones and then a really bad one, and it would get whacked, and Lidge would get beaten.


 
NeedALock09
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 2:20 AM ET #95

Phils starting pitching is far better, Lee is dominate, Hamels will be dominate, Pedro and Blanton have been here before and know what to do and Happ will do what hes done all year.

Phillies lineup is better from top to bottom. To many bats in this lineup. On any given night its pretty much pick your poison. Everyone in the lineup can hit right or left handed pitching.  Run support will be there if needed.

Phillies are one of the best road teams in the league. In last years playoffs they won atleast one road game in all three series. I also believe they came dam close to setting a franchise record for road wins this year. In a 7 game series road wins are huge.

Season series was won by Dodgers 4-3. Note that 3 of the 4 Dodgers wins came in extra innings, 2 walk off home runs in LA and a 13 inning game in Philly. All these games were played before the deadline and the Phillies getting Cliff Lee, and also did not see Pedro at all who is looking like he will be game 2 starter.

Dodgers 2 advantages I believe are the bullpen and their bench. Question is will they be able to exploit these advantages. I think the Dodgers starters have to go 6 or 7 innings and leave with a lead for their bullpen to exploit there advantage. There bench is just deep and Torre has alot of options.

NLCS MVP - Jimmy Rollins....as J Roll goes the Phillies go. Jimmy gets on base Phillies win games. Game 4 against Rockies Jimmy started the comeback with a single, he was out at 2nd on a fielders choice on a Victorino grounder but Victorino came around to get the first run. J Roll didnt have a good series against the Rockies and I think he will bounce back and will do what he does.

Game 1 - Hamels pitches a gem Phillies win

Game 2 - Phillies put up runs and give Pedro the support Phillies win.

Game 3 - CLIFF LEE......Phillies win.

Game 4 - Dodgers fight to stay alive and pull it out. Dodgers win.

Game 5 - Phillies close it out at home and advance to defend world championship.

Phillies win series 4-1
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Phils starting pitching is far better, Lee is dominate, Hamels will be dominate, Pedro and Blanton have been here before and know what to do and Happ will do what hes done all year.

Phillies lineup is better from top to bottom. To many bats in this lineup. On any given night its pretty much pick your poison. Everyone in the lineup can hit right or left handed pitching.  Run support will be there if needed.

Phillies are one of the best road teams in the league. In last years playoffs they won atleast one road game in all three series. I also believe they came dam close to setting a franchise record for road wins this year. In a 7 game series road wins are huge.

Season series was won by Dodgers 4-3. Note that 3 of the 4 Dodgers wins came in extra innings, 2 walk off home runs in LA and a 13 inning game in Philly. All these games were played before the deadline and the Phillies getting Cliff Lee, and also did not see Pedro at all who is looking like he will be game 2 starter.

Dodgers 2 advantages I believe are the bullpen and their bench. Question is will they be able to exploit these advantages. I think the Dodgers starters have to go 6 or 7 innings and leave with a lead for their bullpen to exploit there advantage. There bench is just deep and Torre has alot of options.

NLCS MVP - Jimmy Rollins....as J Roll goes the Phillies go. Jimmy gets on base Phillies win games. Game 4 against Rockies Jimmy started the comeback with a single, he was out at 2nd on a fielders choice on a Victorino grounder but Victorino came around to get the first run. J Roll didnt have a good series against the Rockies and I think he will bounce back and will do what he does.

Game 1 - Hamels pitches a gem Phillies win

Game 2 - Phillies put up runs and give Pedro the support Phillies win.

Game 3 - CLIFF LEE......Phillies win.

Game 4 - Dodgers fight to stay alive and pull it out. Dodgers win.

Game 5 - Phillies close it out at home and advance to defend world championship.

Phillies win series 4-1
 
NeedALock09
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 2:50 AM ET #96

NOTE TO DODGERS FANS!!!!!!!!

Throw out all your statistics from the season because they mean nothing at this point. Were on the big stage now where the games mean something. Who on your team has ever done anything in the post season besides Manny??? NO ONE!!!!! The Phillies have everyone back from last year except Burrell who was replaced by Ibanez and Ibanez is better so its an upgrade. All your meaningless statistical talk means nothing and the result will be no different then last year. If this were a 5 game series id say the dodgers would be moving on but this is a 7 game series and the Dodgers can not hang with the Phillies in 7 games. If the Dodgers lose one of the first 2 in LA they may not even get back to LA because the next 3 are in Philly. Like I said this is the big stage now and the games mean something. Not one of you Dodger Fans can say anything. WIN!!!! BEAT US!!!! Then run your mouth and ill give all the respect that is due. Theres only one problem....the better team will win. Might I remind you all....WORLD PHUCKIN CHAMPIONS!!!!!
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NOTE TO DODGERS FANS!!!!!!!!

Throw out all your statistics from the season because they mean nothing at this point. Were on the big stage now where the games mean something. Who on your team has ever done anything in the post season besides Manny??? NO ONE!!!!! The Phillies have everyone back from last year except Burrell who was replaced by Ibanez and Ibanez is better so its an upgrade. All your meaningless statistical talk means nothing and the result will be no different then last year. If this were a 5 game series id say the dodgers would be moving on but this is a 7 game series and the Dodgers can not hang with the Phillies in 7 games. If the Dodgers lose one of the first 2 in LA they may not even get back to LA because the next 3 are in Philly. Like I said this is the big stage now and the games mean something. Not one of you Dodger Fans can say anything. WIN!!!! BEAT US!!!! Then run your mouth and ill give all the respect that is due. Theres only one problem....the better team will win. Might I remind you all....WORLD PHUCKIN CHAMPIONS!!!!!
 
throwsatfeet
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 11:06 AM ET #97

The season statistics are completely irrelevant in this series.  A simple glance at both rosters reveals how big of a mismatch this series is for the Dodgers.  Phils are simply better at almost every position.  This is literally an all-star team playing against Manny and a collection of mediocre journey men.  Let's go down the lineup
 
Howard vs. Loney -- No brainer, Howard by a mile
Utley vs. Belliard -- Again, no brainer
Rollins vs. Furcal -- Rollins had a down year at the plate, but is still the best defensive shortstop in the gain.  Rollins is clearly better
Felix vs. Blake -- Blake is better at the plate but Felix is better defensively - Push
Werth vs. Ethier -- No brainer, Werth's defense, speed, and most of all bat put him head and shoulders above
Victorino vs. Kemp -- Victorino is a solid switch hitter, best defensive center fielder and has incredible speed around the bases -- no brainer, Victorino is better
Manny vs Ibanez -- Manny clearly isn't the same without the juice.  Ibanez puts up comparable numbers and clutch hits.  Ibanez is better on defensive. PUSH
 
Rotation?  Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Martinez/Blanton vs. a hodge podge of journeymen.  Phils have a major advantage here
 
Defense?  Phils by a mile
 
Team speed?  Phils by a mile
 
The only way LA wins more than 1 game is if the Phils bullpen blows one late. 
 
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The season statistics are completely irrelevant in this series.  A simple glance at both rosters reveals how big of a mismatch this series is for the Dodgers.  Phils are simply better at almost every position.  This is literally an all-star team playing against Manny and a collection of mediocre journey men.  Let's go down the lineup
 
Howard vs. Loney -- No brainer, Howard by a mile
Utley vs. Belliard -- Again, no brainer
Rollins vs. Furcal -- Rollins had a down year at the plate, but is still the best defensive shortstop in the gain.  Rollins is clearly better
Felix vs. Blake -- Blake is better at the plate but Felix is better defensively - Push
Werth vs. Ethier -- No brainer, Werth's defense, speed, and most of all bat put him head and shoulders above
Victorino vs. Kemp -- Victorino is a solid switch hitter, best defensive center fielder and has incredible speed around the bases -- no brainer, Victorino is better
Manny vs Ibanez -- Manny clearly isn't the same without the juice.  Ibanez puts up comparable numbers and clutch hits.  Ibanez is better on defensive. PUSH
 
Rotation?  Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Martinez/Blanton vs. a hodge podge of journeymen.  Phils have a major advantage here
 
Defense?  Phils by a mile
 
Team speed?  Phils by a mile
 
The only way LA wins more than 1 game is if the Phils bullpen blows one late. 
 
 
Skeet_Skeet
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 4:15 PM ET #98

Here's to Dodgers to light up Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge brighter than a 4th of July night. 
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Here's to Dodgers to light up Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge brighter than a 4th of July night. 
 
DOVJAK
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 4:38 PM ET #99

on phils  bol to all
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on phils  bol to all
 
 
Cbbfan
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Posted: Oct. 15, 2009 - 5:48 PM ET #100

Quote Originally Posted by Skeet_Skeet:

Gay-Tor why does it not surprise me another Philly fan stuck in 2008? And your statement "the guy got out managed last year by someone who doesn't even speak english" Do you even remember 2008?  Of course Philly had an edge with their stacked roster.  Torre came into a losing ball club his first year and took them to the NLCS.  Would Manual have been able to do that? Uhhh yeah I don't think so.  So shut your pie hole. If ANY manager had the Phillies roster seems a lot easier doesn't it Genius? Or have you not thought that through with your half a brain, kind of hard when you have the semi-intelligence of a rock.

And again the same old argument and story about your hitters blah blah blah.  Read my prior posts.

And what was that "Torre- a complete wash???" Are you kidding me?  Your comparing Manuel to Torre?  Let me take you on a history ride to memory lane.  Are you talking about the same Manuel who got his team swept at HOME in 2007 in a 7 game series by the WILD CARD Rockies??? LOL  It's not even like you played Boston or the Yankees. Why don't u just stick to football and keep drinking that Hater-ade or better yet stick a phat Philly cheesestake down your throat and choke on it. 

Dead on!!

 

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Quote Originally Posted by Skeet_Skeet:

Gay-Tor why does it not surprise me another Philly fan stuck in 2008? And your statement "the guy got out managed last year by someone who doesn't even speak english" Do you even remember 2008?  Of course Philly had an edge with their stacked roster.  Torre came into a losing ball club his first year and took them to the NLCS.  Would Manual have been able to do that? Uhhh yeah I don't think so.  So shut your pie hole. If ANY manager had the Phillies roster seems a lot easier doesn't it Genius? Or have you not thought that through with your half a brain, kind of hard when you have the semi-intelligence of a rock.

And again the same old argument and story about your hitters blah blah blah.  Read my prior posts.

And what was that "Torre- a complete wash???" Are you kidding me?  Your comparing Manuel to Torre?  Let me take you on a history ride to memory lane.  Are you talking about the same Manuel who got his team swept at HOME in 2007 in a 7 game series by the WILD CARD Rockies??? LOL  It's not even like you played Boston or the Yankees. Why don't u just stick to football and keep drinking that Hater-ade or better yet stick a phat Philly cheesestake down your throat and choke on it. 

Dead on!!

 

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