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    All Forums | King of Covers

    Molly LINES

    «First Previous 12
    Vladieee
    OLL5
    otisxiii
    mollydog
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 867
    Posts: 31
    «First Previous 12
     
    Vladieee
    Vladieee
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2025
    Posts: 39
    Posted: Nov. 14, 2025 - 2:39 PM ET #26

    @OMREBEL02

     

    Why Certain Contest Players Always Get “The Best Line” in College Basketball

    There has been a lot of confusion on Covers about one recurring issue:
    How can certain players always seem to lock in the best number in college hoops contests?

    They aren’t psychic.
    They aren’t super-sharp handicappers.
    They aren’t fixing games.

    What they *are* doing is taking advantage of how the contest lines are updated.

    Let’s break it down in simple terms.

    ---

    ## 1. Contest Lines Come From Pinnacle

    Covers uses Pinnacle as the line source. That part is straightforward.

    But here’s the important point:

    **Pinnacle updates instantly. Covers updates on a delay.**
    Usually around **10–15 minutes**.

    This delay is where the entire “advantage” comes from.

    ---

    ## 2. College Basketball Lines Move More Than Any Other Sport

    In major sports (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB), lines barely move:

    * Half a point here
    * A point there
    * Nothing major

    But in smaller college basketball games, early lines can move **5–10 points** in a single morning.

    Why?

    Because these lines are soft, the limits are low, and sharp bettors hit bad numbers immediately.

    Example of what happens all the time:

    Pinnacle opens Lindenwood **+3.5**.
    Sharp bettors smash it.
    Thirty minutes later it’s **Lindenwood -3**.

    That’s a **6.5-point swing** — something that never happens in pro sports.

    ---

    ## 3. Covers Lines Don’t Move During These Sharp Moves

    When Pinnacle jumps from:

    **+3.5 ? -3**

    Covers is still showing the old number for several minutes.

    So while the real world is at **LINW -3**, Covers contestants still see **LINW +3.5**.

    That number is stale.

    And anybody who enters picks during that gap is getting a line that no longer exists anywhere else.

    ---

    ## 4. This Creates “Free Value”

    If you can grab:

    * +3.5 when the true market is -2
    * +4 when the true market is -1
    * +2.5 when the true market is -3

    you’re basically flipping a coin where someone already tells you the outcome.

    This is called **closing line value (CLV)**.
    In college basketball, CLV is extremely powerful.
    If you beat the close by 3+ points, you win far more often than you lose — even if your actual handicapping is mediocre.

    This is why certain players:

    * Look unbeatable
    * Always get the best number
    * Only dominate during college basketball season
    * Don’t win in NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL

    Because pro sports do not move enough to create stale lines.

    College hoops *do*.

    ---

    ## 5. These Players Are Not Handicapping Geniuses

    Let’s call it what it is:

    They are not beating the market.
    They are beating **Covers’ 10–15 minute update lag**.

    The formula is simple:

    1. Watch Pinnacle live.
    2. Wait for a big steam move.
    3. Jump into Covers before the update hits.
    4. Lock in a number that is already outdated.

    This is not illegal.
    But it’s not “handicapping skill,” either.
    It’s timing and exploiting a delay.

    ---

    ## 6. Why They Only Win in College Basketball

    Because:

    * No other sport has wild early-morning line swings
    * No other sport is as soft at open
    * No other sport creates 4- to 7-point stale numbers
    * No other sport gives free CLV the way small-conference CBB does

    It’s the perfect storm for gaming the system.

    ---

    ## 7. What This Means for Contest Players

    If you wonder:

    “How does this guy always get the best number?”

    The answer is simple:

    He’s entering picks during the line-lag window every morning while Pinnacle is moving the market and Covers hasn’t updated yet.

    Nothing more.
    Nothing less.
    No mystery.

     

    Reply

    @OMREBEL02

     

    Why Certain Contest Players Always Get “The Best Line” in College Basketball

    There has been a lot of confusion on Covers about one recurring issue:
    How can certain players always seem to lock in the best number in college hoops contests?

    They aren’t psychic.
    They aren’t super-sharp handicappers.
    They aren’t fixing games.

    What they *are* doing is taking advantage of how the contest lines are updated.

    Let’s break it down in simple terms.

    ---

    ## 1. Contest Lines Come From Pinnacle

    Covers uses Pinnacle as the line source. That part is straightforward.

    But here’s the important point:

    **Pinnacle updates instantly. Covers updates on a delay.**
    Usually around **10–15 minutes**.

    This delay is where the entire “advantage” comes from.

    ---

    ## 2. College Basketball Lines Move More Than Any Other Sport

    In major sports (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB), lines barely move:

    * Half a point here
    * A point there
    * Nothing major

    But in smaller college basketball games, early lines can move **5–10 points** in a single morning.

    Why?

    Because these lines are soft, the limits are low, and sharp bettors hit bad numbers immediately.

    Example of what happens all the time:

    Pinnacle opens Lindenwood **+3.5**.
    Sharp bettors smash it.
    Thirty minutes later it’s **Lindenwood -3**.

    That’s a **6.5-point swing** — something that never happens in pro sports.

    ---

    ## 3. Covers Lines Don’t Move During These Sharp Moves

    When Pinnacle jumps from:

    **+3.5 ? -3**

    Covers is still showing the old number for several minutes.

    So while the real world is at **LINW -3**, Covers contestants still see **LINW +3.5**.

    That number is stale.

    And anybody who enters picks during that gap is getting a line that no longer exists anywhere else.

    ---

    ## 4. This Creates “Free Value”

    If you can grab:

    * +3.5 when the true market is -2
    * +4 when the true market is -1
    * +2.5 when the true market is -3

    you’re basically flipping a coin where someone already tells you the outcome.

    This is called **closing line value (CLV)**.
    In college basketball, CLV is extremely powerful.
    If you beat the close by 3+ points, you win far more often than you lose — even if your actual handicapping is mediocre.

    This is why certain players:

    * Look unbeatable
    * Always get the best number
    * Only dominate during college basketball season
    * Don’t win in NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL

    Because pro sports do not move enough to create stale lines.

    College hoops *do*.

    ---

    ## 5. These Players Are Not Handicapping Geniuses

    Let’s call it what it is:

    They are not beating the market.
    They are beating **Covers’ 10–15 minute update lag**.

    The formula is simple:

    1. Watch Pinnacle live.
    2. Wait for a big steam move.
    3. Jump into Covers before the update hits.
    4. Lock in a number that is already outdated.

    This is not illegal.
    But it’s not “handicapping skill,” either.
    It’s timing and exploiting a delay.

    ---

    ## 6. Why They Only Win in College Basketball

    Because:

    * No other sport has wild early-morning line swings
    * No other sport is as soft at open
    * No other sport creates 4- to 7-point stale numbers
    * No other sport gives free CLV the way small-conference CBB does

    It’s the perfect storm for gaming the system.

    ---

    ## 7. What This Means for Contest Players

    If you wonder:

    “How does this guy always get the best number?”

    The answer is simple:

    He’s entering picks during the line-lag window every morning while Pinnacle is moving the market and Covers hasn’t updated yet.

    Nothing more.
    Nothing less.
    No mystery.

     

     
    Vladieee
    Vladieee
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2025
    Posts: 39
    Posted: Nov. 17, 2025 - 10:21 AM ET #27

    Dear Covers Team

    I want to raise a fairness concern regarding the Georgia State vs. Arizona State total posted by the user mollydog, specifically the Under 149.5 selection. That number was not available anywhere in the market at the time indicated by his pick timestamp. Based on archived line movement, 149.5 had been gone for many hours. Given the documented movement across every book, it would have been impossible for any bettor—including mollydog—to legitimately obtain 149.5 at the time his pick was recorded, yet the system still accepted it.

    Below is the essential market history across books, showing the actual totals available:

    Tooniebet – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.5 -108 / u145.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 08:14 ET: o145.5 -114 / u145.5 -112
    Mon Nov 17 07:59 ET: o146.5 -112 / u146.5 -114
    Mon Nov 17 01:14 ET: o147.5 -113 / u147.5 -113
    Sun Nov 16 22:29 ET: o148.5 -114 / u148.5 -112

    Sports Interaction – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:39 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:34 ET: o144.5 -105 / u144.5 -115
    Mon Nov 17 08:29 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o144.5 -115 / u144.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:04 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -110

    TonyBet – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:41 ET: o144.5 -114 / u144.5 -122
    Mon Nov 17 08:31 ET: o144.5 -118 / u144.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 08:11 ET: o145.5 -115 / u145.5 -120
    Mon Nov 17 07:56 ET: o146.5 -114 / u146.5 -122
    Sun Nov 16 17:26 ET: o149.5 -122 / u149.5 -112

    bet365 – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:24 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.0 -110 / u145.0 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:09 ET: o146.0 -110 / u146.0 -110
    Sun Nov 16 17:19 ET: o149.5 -110 / u149.5 -110

    Pinnacle – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:21 ET: o143.5 -111 / u143.5 -109
    Mon Nov 17 08:11 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -110

    Betano – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:25 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -111
    Mon Nov 17 08:05 ET: o147.5 -110 / u147.5 -111
    Sun Nov 16 22:55 ET: o149.5 -110 / u149.5 -111

    BET99 – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:33 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:27 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Sun Nov 16 18:42 ET: o149.5 -105 / u149.5 -115

    Caesars – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o144.0 -110 / u144.0 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.0 -110 / u145.0 -110
    Sun Nov 16 19:04 ET: o148.5 -110 / u148.5 -110

    BetMGM – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.5 -105 / u145.5 -115
    Sun Nov 16 19:49 ET: o148.5 -110 / u148.5 -110

    BetRivers – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:14 ET: o145.5 -108 / u145.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 07:59 ET: o146.5 -112 / u146.5 -114

    Betway – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:32 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -115
    Mon Nov 17 08:12 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -115

    Across all books, 149.5 disappeared late afternoon to early evening on Sun Nov 16. By the time his pick timestamp appears on Covers, every sportsbook was between 143.5 and 146.5. Not a single operator was offering 149.5, and none came close to returning to it. This makes the recorded pick number objectively unobtainable in any real market.

    This is not a personal complaint. It is a structural concern: if outdated numbers are selectable, intentionally or not, it creates an unfair environment for everyone else operating on actual, available lines.

    I am asking Covers to verify whether line selections are being validated correctly and whether users can still choose numbers after they have moved. Any clarification on how timestamps align with the actual market would help the entire community.

    The goal is simple: fairness.

     

    Reply

    Dear Covers Team

    I want to raise a fairness concern regarding the Georgia State vs. Arizona State total posted by the user mollydog, specifically the Under 149.5 selection. That number was not available anywhere in the market at the time indicated by his pick timestamp. Based on archived line movement, 149.5 had been gone for many hours. Given the documented movement across every book, it would have been impossible for any bettor—including mollydog—to legitimately obtain 149.5 at the time his pick was recorded, yet the system still accepted it.

    Below is the essential market history across books, showing the actual totals available:

    Tooniebet – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.5 -108 / u145.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 08:14 ET: o145.5 -114 / u145.5 -112
    Mon Nov 17 07:59 ET: o146.5 -112 / u146.5 -114
    Mon Nov 17 01:14 ET: o147.5 -113 / u147.5 -113
    Sun Nov 16 22:29 ET: o148.5 -114 / u148.5 -112

    Sports Interaction – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:39 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:34 ET: o144.5 -105 / u144.5 -115
    Mon Nov 17 08:29 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o144.5 -115 / u144.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:04 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -110

    TonyBet – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:41 ET: o144.5 -114 / u144.5 -122
    Mon Nov 17 08:31 ET: o144.5 -118 / u144.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 08:11 ET: o145.5 -115 / u145.5 -120
    Mon Nov 17 07:56 ET: o146.5 -114 / u146.5 -122
    Sun Nov 16 17:26 ET: o149.5 -122 / u149.5 -112

    bet365 – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:24 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.0 -110 / u145.0 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:09 ET: o146.0 -110 / u146.0 -110
    Sun Nov 16 17:19 ET: o149.5 -110 / u149.5 -110

    Pinnacle – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:21 ET: o143.5 -111 / u143.5 -109
    Mon Nov 17 08:11 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -110

    Betano – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:25 ET: o143.5 -110 / u143.5 -111
    Mon Nov 17 08:05 ET: o147.5 -110 / u147.5 -111
    Sun Nov 16 22:55 ET: o149.5 -110 / u149.5 -111

    BET99 – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:33 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:27 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Sun Nov 16 18:42 ET: o149.5 -105 / u149.5 -115

    Caesars – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o144.0 -110 / u144.0 -110
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.0 -110 / u145.0 -110
    Sun Nov 16 19:04 ET: o148.5 -110 / u148.5 -110

    BetMGM – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:49 ET: o143.5 -115 / u143.5 -105
    Mon Nov 17 08:19 ET: o145.5 -105 / u145.5 -115
    Sun Nov 16 19:49 ET: o148.5 -110 / u148.5 -110

    BetRivers – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:14 ET: o145.5 -108 / u145.5 -118
    Mon Nov 17 07:59 ET: o146.5 -112 / u146.5 -114

    Betway – O/U
    Mon Nov 17 08:32 ET: o144.5 -110 / u144.5 -115
    Mon Nov 17 08:12 ET: o145.5 -110 / u145.5 -115

    Across all books, 149.5 disappeared late afternoon to early evening on Sun Nov 16. By the time his pick timestamp appears on Covers, every sportsbook was between 143.5 and 146.5. Not a single operator was offering 149.5, and none came close to returning to it. This makes the recorded pick number objectively unobtainable in any real market.

    This is not a personal complaint. It is a structural concern: if outdated numbers are selectable, intentionally or not, it creates an unfair environment for everyone else operating on actual, available lines.

    I am asking Covers to verify whether line selections are being validated correctly and whether users can still choose numbers after they have moved. Any clarification on how timestamps align with the actual market would help the entire community.

    The goal is simple: fairness.

     

     
    OLL5
    OLL5
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2000
    Posts: 19
    Posted: Nov. 17, 2025 - 1:03 PM ET #28

    @Vladieee

     Excellent explanation. One gets a better line on teams that the smart money is betting on and getting the better number. This method wins assuming that the smart money is right. There was a team of tennis bettors. One would go to several matches and find a scorekeeping was slow in the scoring when a point was made and they would follow the matches that used that scorekeeper and when a point was made, told his friend who was on the phone with him and would live bet the point before the online book would get the result. 

      

    Reply

    @Vladieee

     Excellent explanation. One gets a better line on teams that the smart money is betting on and getting the better number. This method wins assuming that the smart money is right. There was a team of tennis bettors. One would go to several matches and find a scorekeeping was slow in the scoring when a point was made and they would follow the matches that used that scorekeeper and when a point was made, told his friend who was on the phone with him and would live bet the point before the online book would get the result. 

      

     
    otisxiii
    otisxiii
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2021
    Posts: 41
    Posted: Nov. 17, 2025 - 9:38 PM ET #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladieee:

    @OMREBEL02   Why Certain Contest Players Always Get “The Best Line”

     

    so, there's like 12 players in the contests, and only one cares about this? for years the spankys of the internet have been promoting chasing steam in milliseconds. many sites, podcasts, products dedicated to this - only one person with something like a db screen plays koc?

     

    don't get me wrong - pay that man his money.

    it looks strange.

    it's chinatown.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladieee:

    @OMREBEL02   Why Certain Contest Players Always Get “The Best Line”

     

    so, there's like 12 players in the contests, and only one cares about this? for years the spankys of the internet have been promoting chasing steam in milliseconds. many sites, podcasts, products dedicated to this - only one person with something like a db screen plays koc?

     

    don't get me wrong - pay that man his money.

    it looks strange.

    it's chinatown.

     
    mollydog
    mollydog
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Apr, 2009
    Posts: 156
    Posted: Nov. 23, 2025 - 12:13 PM ET #30

    Gang,

    Sorry as I have been crazy busy and in between moving homes.

    Messy, TVigilante2020, DCrunk022 and JJWoods, I wanted to thank you for the kind words in the recent posts. I appreciate you and hope that when I get on my lucky runs, you all won some $$$$$. I’m watching and cheering n each of you. 

    - JJwoods, love your NFL posts and record, well done. 

    - Otisxiii, Remarkable W/L record, I’m tailing your plays. 

    - Skunty4, you sit at +86,020 as I type this YTD, I work my tail off and sit at +2,455. I am blessed and lucky to sneak out a couple contest wins here but I will never get your lines and I know when to say, I am learning from the master. Remarkable run, I am so impressed.

     

    Vladieee,

    I shared how I see lines moving offshore in a post here in the forums on Sept 23rd. I aim to be transparent and help anyone where I can. Let me be clear, to my knowledge, there is no way to manipulate the lines and no way to pick something after tipoff. The group here does a great job aligning with many of the US books but I’ve found out the majority of the line moves are triggered offshore. That does not guarantee winning at all, I just finished the baseball contest at -72,970, 3500th place out 3707 contest players. Sorry to those who follow me and completely embarrassed, but we will figure that sport out. 

    I select arguably 100-200 picks daily, I cannot recall the one game you want to single out. There are rare occurrences when I lock in a play and don’t show for a while, for what that’s worth. I can 100% guarantee though that I can only select a play that is listed, there is no way to manipulate the site. 

    Those who know me know I try to get in front of majority of the smart plays the moment the offshores move. But even the smarts miss, it does not guarantee any level of success. Heck, there’s people who’s system is to purposely fade the public and that have great success. That’s why they call it gambling. 

    I wish you and everyone in this thread the best of luck. 



    Mollydog 

     

    Reply

    Gang,

    Sorry as I have been crazy busy and in between moving homes.

    Messy, TVigilante2020, DCrunk022 and JJWoods, I wanted to thank you for the kind words in the recent posts. I appreciate you and hope that when I get on my lucky runs, you all won some $$$$$. I’m watching and cheering n each of you. 

    - JJwoods, love your NFL posts and record, well done. 

    - Otisxiii, Remarkable W/L record, I’m tailing your plays. 

    - Skunty4, you sit at +86,020 as I type this YTD, I work my tail off and sit at +2,455. I am blessed and lucky to sneak out a couple contest wins here but I will never get your lines and I know when to say, I am learning from the master. Remarkable run, I am so impressed.

     

    Vladieee,

    I shared how I see lines moving offshore in a post here in the forums on Sept 23rd. I aim to be transparent and help anyone where I can. Let me be clear, to my knowledge, there is no way to manipulate the lines and no way to pick something after tipoff. The group here does a great job aligning with many of the US books but I’ve found out the majority of the line moves are triggered offshore. That does not guarantee winning at all, I just finished the baseball contest at -72,970, 3500th place out 3707 contest players. Sorry to those who follow me and completely embarrassed, but we will figure that sport out. 

    I select arguably 100-200 picks daily, I cannot recall the one game you want to single out. There are rare occurrences when I lock in a play and don’t show for a while, for what that’s worth. I can 100% guarantee though that I can only select a play that is listed, there is no way to manipulate the site. 

    Those who know me know I try to get in front of majority of the smart plays the moment the offshores move. But even the smarts miss, it does not guarantee any level of success. Heck, there’s people who’s system is to purposely fade the public and that have great success. That’s why they call it gambling. 

    I wish you and everyone in this thread the best of luck. 



    Mollydog 

     

     
     
    otisxiii
    otisxiii
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2021
    Posts: 41
    Posted: Nov. 23, 2025 - 3:39 PM ET #31

    Quote Originally Posted by mollydog:

    I’m tailing your plays.

     

     

    does everything work out for you? if someone is at the top of ats/totals and i happen to notice that they never lose big - if at all - day after day, it always goes like this:

     

    Franciswarns omg nba totals. yeah it's easy to pick a few numbers - over 200 not so easy, except for him.

    *furiously scribbles down his picks and pulls out tickets for funding even though Franciswarns got the best of the number*

    "wait, this always goes badly"

    yep. his totals went 2-6.

    just last wed., 19th.

    still #1.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by mollydog:

    I’m tailing your plays.

     

     

    does everything work out for you? if someone is at the top of ats/totals and i happen to notice that they never lose big - if at all - day after day, it always goes like this:

     

    Franciswarns omg nba totals. yeah it's easy to pick a few numbers - over 200 not so easy, except for him.

    *furiously scribbles down his picks and pulls out tickets for funding even though Franciswarns got the best of the number*

    "wait, this always goes badly"

    yep. his totals went 2-6.

    just last wed., 19th.

    still #1.

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