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    All Forums | General Discussion

    September 11, 2001 (long read)

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    smdio
    gfinger
    HutchEmAll
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    smdio
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 4:24 PM ET #776

    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    On Sept. 6, 2001, the Thursday before the tragedy, 2,075 put options were made on United Airlines and on Sept. 10, the day before the attacks, 2,282 put options were recorded for American Airlines. Given the prices at the time, this would have yielded speculators between $2 million and $4 million in profit. For institutional hedge funds, this is peanuts. Also the amount of put options on airlines that day is below the average put option activity in the S&P in a daily basis anyways. Yeah, rubes in this thread, having no idea what they are talking about.

    You're trying to say that 11x the normal amount of put options on AA and 17x the normal amount of put options on Boeing were common because of the trend in the market and prices? 

    I've heard some dumb debunking attempts in this thread, but that is by far the stupidest one so far 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    On Sept. 6, 2001, the Thursday before the tragedy, 2,075 put options were made on United Airlines and on Sept. 10, the day before the attacks, 2,282 put options were recorded for American Airlines. Given the prices at the time, this would have yielded speculators between $2 million and $4 million in profit. For institutional hedge funds, this is peanuts. Also the amount of put options on airlines that day is below the average put option activity in the S&P in a daily basis anyways. Yeah, rubes in this thread, having no idea what they are talking about.

    You're trying to say that 11x the normal amount of put options on AA and 17x the normal amount of put options on Boeing were common because of the trend in the market and prices? 

    I've heard some dumb debunking attempts in this thread, but that is by far the stupidest one so far 
     
    gfinger
    gfinger
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 4:56 PM ET #777

    Yes, 11x on any given day is considered normal. YHOO just had call options 15x their average last week one day. Call the SEC !!!!!! 
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    Yes, 11x on any given day is considered normal. YHOO just had call options 15x their average last week one day. Call the SEC !!!!!! 
     
    gfinger
    gfinger
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:02 PM ET #778

    Take a look at AMR Nov options. 9,200 calls to just 425 puts. Almost 21x's on the call to put ratio. Call the SEC !!!!
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    Take a look at AMR Nov options. 9,200 calls to just 425 puts. Almost 21x's on the call to put ratio. Call the SEC !!!!
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:16 PM ET #779

    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:


    You're trying to say that 11x the normal amount of put options on AA and 17x the normal amount of put options on Boeing were common because of the trend in the market and prices? 

    I've heard some dumb debunking attempts in this thread, but that is by far the stupidest one so far 

    You just look at the "11x" and assume that it has to mean SOMETHING without even understanding what it means and what you should be comparing it to.

    Still doesn't represent any evidence.  All these "interesting facts" with plausible explanations.  No evidence.  Common theme with your ignorant ass. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:


    You're trying to say that 11x the normal amount of put options on AA and 17x the normal amount of put options on Boeing were common because of the trend in the market and prices? 

    I've heard some dumb debunking attempts in this thread, but that is by far the stupidest one so far 

    You just look at the "11x" and assume that it has to mean SOMETHING without even understanding what it means and what you should be comparing it to.

    Still doesn't represent any evidence.  All these "interesting facts" with plausible explanations.  No evidence.  Common theme with your ignorant ass. 

     
    smdio
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:34 PM ET #780

    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:


    1.)  Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense of the United States of America, is seen in this video claiming that Flight 93 had been shot down by someone on 9/11/2001.  This completely contradicts the official story of our Government, which was that hijackers took over the plane in an attempt to fly it into the White House in Washington D.C., but their plan was foiled due to a group of passengers over-taking the hijackers and instead crash landing the plane in Shanksville, PA.

    Why would Donald Rumsfeld claim that Flight 93 was shot down when in fact, "we know" that it crash landed in Shanksville? 

     

    2.)  NIST, the Government-assigned agency to investigate the events of 9/11/2001 pertaining to the WTC complex in New York, released a revised report in 2008 which contained a few sections relating to the collapse of WTC7. According to the report that I just linked you to, NIST, who recorded an operating budget of $992 Million in 2009 and employs 2900 scientists, structural engineers, and technicians, claims that WTC7 collapsed upon itself in just over 5 seconds, with 2.25 second of that time "accelerating at the rate of gravity".  They further claim that "Freefall speed stopped as a result of the building collapsing on itself".

    How can a building made of sevreal thousand tons of steel and reinforced concrete suddenly collapse at the rate of gravity upon itself without the aid of some sort of explosive device?

    Before you answer, you should know that FEMA initally did an investigation as to why WTC7 collapsed, but could not determine a reason.  They did however note the presense of the military-grade chemical Nano-Thermite in the rubble of the WTC complex.

    NIST immediately dismissed the potential of Thermite to be used, stating (this is always gives me a laugh, btw):

    "The use of thermite instead of explosives is discarded by NIST on the basis that it is unlikely the necessary 100 pounds of thermate for each steel column could have been planted without being discovered."

    So essentially:  Thermite is found in the rubble of WTC7. Upon further investigation of the Thermite by FEMA, they determine that it is a military-grade form of the chemical, called Nano-Thermite. NIST quickly discredits FEMA's findings as false, claiming that it would be "impossible" to get the 20+ tons of thermite into the WTC complex without security detection.

    Hmm.  "Security detection".  Lets take a quick look at the Security of the WTC complex on 9/11/2001, shall we Eric?

    Stratesec, also known as Securacom, was responsible for the security of the entire WTC complex, as well as Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines on the morning of 9/11/2001. 

    Dulles just so happened to be the same airport that Flight 77 took off from, before it hit the Pentagon after being hijacked en route to San Francisco.

    3 United Airlines aircraft were used on the morning of 9/11 to execute the hijackings.

    Who exactly was in control of this entire "Securacom" operation?  According to the Wikipedia link that I just sent you to, this agency was pretty much run by a single person, instead of "delegated authority" as are many other security forms.  So then, who was the person in charge of everything-Securacom on 9/11/2001? Marvin P. Bush.

    Well, surely, you'll say, even if security might have been comprimised on 9/11 at the WTC complex, the "bad guys" still would have needed plenty of time to get the 20+ tons of Nano-Thermite into the buildings.... Right smiddyo?

    ACE Elevator "WTC modernization project", dated 3/1/2001 and lasted nearly 5 months.  It was finished roughly 10 days before the events of 9/11/2001.

    We now have a breach of security (Securacom), a false-flag elevator moderization (ACE), and a way to get 20+ tons of Nano-Thermite into the WTC complex over a 5+ month period before the events of 9/11/2001.

    Now, I have to ask you Eric, how can a building made of sevreal thousand tons of steel and reinforced concrete suddenly collapse at the rate of gravity upon itself without the aid of some sort of explosive device?


    Hutch

    Before you come back and start saying the ignorant rhetoric like last time, please take a moment to respond to my previous post, quoted above, and shed some light on us "oh so degenerate" conspiracy theorists, will you please?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:


    1.)  Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense of the United States of America, is seen in this video claiming that Flight 93 had been shot down by someone on 9/11/2001.  This completely contradicts the official story of our Government, which was that hijackers took over the plane in an attempt to fly it into the White House in Washington D.C., but their plan was foiled due to a group of passengers over-taking the hijackers and instead crash landing the plane in Shanksville, PA.

    Why would Donald Rumsfeld claim that Flight 93 was shot down when in fact, "we know" that it crash landed in Shanksville? 

     

    2.)  NIST, the Government-assigned agency to investigate the events of 9/11/2001 pertaining to the WTC complex in New York, released a revised report in 2008 which contained a few sections relating to the collapse of WTC7. According to the report that I just linked you to, NIST, who recorded an operating budget of $992 Million in 2009 and employs 2900 scientists, structural engineers, and technicians, claims that WTC7 collapsed upon itself in just over 5 seconds, with 2.25 second of that time "accelerating at the rate of gravity".  They further claim that "Freefall speed stopped as a result of the building collapsing on itself".

    How can a building made of sevreal thousand tons of steel and reinforced concrete suddenly collapse at the rate of gravity upon itself without the aid of some sort of explosive device?

    Before you answer, you should know that FEMA initally did an investigation as to why WTC7 collapsed, but could not determine a reason.  They did however note the presense of the military-grade chemical Nano-Thermite in the rubble of the WTC complex.

    NIST immediately dismissed the potential of Thermite to be used, stating (this is always gives me a laugh, btw):

    "The use of thermite instead of explosives is discarded by NIST on the basis that it is unlikely the necessary 100 pounds of thermate for each steel column could have been planted without being discovered."

    So essentially:  Thermite is found in the rubble of WTC7. Upon further investigation of the Thermite by FEMA, they determine that it is a military-grade form of the chemical, called Nano-Thermite. NIST quickly discredits FEMA's findings as false, claiming that it would be "impossible" to get the 20+ tons of thermite into the WTC complex without security detection.

    Hmm.  "Security detection".  Lets take a quick look at the Security of the WTC complex on 9/11/2001, shall we Eric?

    Stratesec, also known as Securacom, was responsible for the security of the entire WTC complex, as well as Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines on the morning of 9/11/2001. 

    Dulles just so happened to be the same airport that Flight 77 took off from, before it hit the Pentagon after being hijacked en route to San Francisco.

    3 United Airlines aircraft were used on the morning of 9/11 to execute the hijackings.

    Who exactly was in control of this entire "Securacom" operation?  According to the Wikipedia link that I just sent you to, this agency was pretty much run by a single person, instead of "delegated authority" as are many other security forms.  So then, who was the person in charge of everything-Securacom on 9/11/2001? Marvin P. Bush.

    Well, surely, you'll say, even if security might have been comprimised on 9/11 at the WTC complex, the "bad guys" still would have needed plenty of time to get the 20+ tons of Nano-Thermite into the buildings.... Right smiddyo?

    ACE Elevator "WTC modernization project", dated 3/1/2001 and lasted nearly 5 months.  It was finished roughly 10 days before the events of 9/11/2001.

    We now have a breach of security (Securacom), a false-flag elevator moderization (ACE), and a way to get 20+ tons of Nano-Thermite into the WTC complex over a 5+ month period before the events of 9/11/2001.

    Now, I have to ask you Eric, how can a building made of sevreal thousand tons of steel and reinforced concrete suddenly collapse at the rate of gravity upon itself without the aid of some sort of explosive device?


    Hutch

    Before you come back and start saying the ignorant rhetoric like last time, please take a moment to respond to my previous post, quoted above, and shed some light on us "oh so degenerate" conspiracy theorists, will you please?
     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:37 PM ET #781

    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    Yes, 11x on any given day is considered normal. YHOO just had call options 15x their average last week one day. Call the SEC !!!!!! 

    If "11x the normal trading" were normal, why establish any number whatsoever for the definition of "normal"?

    What you're basically saying is that there is no such thing as "normal" in the trading market, and anything goes.  Is that right?

    Careful.  Because I'm about to let loose a string of websites, wikipedia references, and numerous other quotes and statistics to make you look really silly  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfinger:

    Yes, 11x on any given day is considered normal. YHOO just had call options 15x their average last week one day. Call the SEC !!!!!! 

    If "11x the normal trading" were normal, why establish any number whatsoever for the definition of "normal"?

    What you're basically saying is that there is no such thing as "normal" in the trading market, and anything goes.  Is that right?

    Careful.  Because I'm about to let loose a string of websites, wikipedia references, and numerous other quotes and statistics to make you look really silly  
     
    gfinger
    gfinger
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:52 PM ET #782

    Yeah, anything goes. There could be 2x's the amount of contacts one day, 21x's the next, etc. It is all random.
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    Yeah, anything goes. There could be 2x's the amount of contacts one day, 21x's the next, etc. It is all random.
     
    gfinger
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 5:55 PM ET #783

    Just because there were 11's the amount of puts to calls doesn't mean a thing. People were shorting airlines, just like myself that day. There can be a odd weighted amount of puts to call and vice versa anyday of the week, big deal.
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    Just because there were 11's the amount of puts to calls doesn't mean a thing. People were shorting airlines, just like myself that day. There can be a odd weighted amount of puts to call and vice versa anyday of the week, big deal.
     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 6:03 PM ET #784

    Sigh I'm actually not even going to get into the put options argument.  I made very clear and precise points in the post above that I just asked Hutch about, and I've yet to get any answers.  

    The put option argument is a small one in comparison to the other arguments I've made in this thread.
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    Sigh I'm actually not even going to get into the put options argument.  I made very clear and precise points in the post above that I just asked Hutch about, and I've yet to get any answers.  

    The put option argument is a small one in comparison to the other arguments I've made in this thread.
     
    tillyo
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 9:59 PM ET #785

    glad to see you back hutch   this option situation is a little suspicious but nothing for the degenerate consp theorist to hang their hats on. Is it possible the terrorist did it since they were bragging to strippers at a florida stripclub that they were going to change the world in two weeks.  The terrorist definitely did it and the govt may have been warned but they did not know it was coming on that day sosoon  they rec 1200 threats a day.
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    glad to see you back hutch   this option situation is a little suspicious but nothing for the degenerate consp theorist to hang their hats on. Is it possible the terrorist did it since they were bragging to strippers at a florida stripclub that they were going to change the world in two weeks.  The terrorist definitely did it and the govt may have been warned but they did not know it was coming on that day sosoon  they rec 1200 threats a day.
     
    scalabrine
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 11:25 PM ET #786

    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3
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    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3
     
    cd329
    cd329
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 11:41 PM ET #787

    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3

    couldnt have anything to do with the fact that they knew which planes would be going down

    some people dont know how to use their own brains to figure out common sense answers and instead act like sheep believing what they are told to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3

    couldnt have anything to do with the fact that they knew which planes would be going down

    some people dont know how to use their own brains to figure out common sense answers and instead act like sheep believing what they are told to believe.

     
    cd329
    cd329
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    Posted: Nov. 15, 2010 - 11:44 PM ET #788

    So to all the non believers that this wasnt a conspiracy, please show me one clear picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon

    just one.  I know there was no cameras aimed at one of the most secure buildings on the planet. Our cameras in space can read the date on a dime from hundreds of thousands a miles away and the best our govt can provide is a granny ass video where you cant make out what is hitting the building.

    come on people see thru the bullshit and use common sense.

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    So to all the non believers that this wasnt a conspiracy, please show me one clear picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon

    just one.  I know there was no cameras aimed at one of the most secure buildings on the planet. Our cameras in space can read the date on a dime from hundreds of thousands a miles away and the best our govt can provide is a granny ass video where you cant make out what is hitting the building.

    come on people see thru the bullshit and use common sense.

     
    tillyo
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 3:39 AM ET #789

    Show me a picture of something else hitting the building.
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    Show me a picture of something else hitting the building.
     
    Kodiakita
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 9:53 AM ET #790

    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




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    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




     
    nuggins
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 10:24 AM ET #791

    Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

    So to all the non believers that this wasnt a conspiracy, please show me one clear picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon

    just one.  I know there was no cameras aimed at one of the most secure buildings on the planet. Our cameras in space can read the date on a dime from hundreds of thousands a miles away and the best our govt can provide is a granny ass video where you cant make out what is hitting the building.

    come on people see thru the bullshit and use common sense.



    wow...why do so many think that our satellites are so advanced...i know you're joking about reading the date on a dime but come on...every bit of the footage/pics from the WTC are from civilians to my knowledge...when does the gov't release info from their satellites? perhaps that information is classified...there are words that are Top Secret...just one simple word...guessing anything from our tech is as well...

    there's no pics of my son being born so maybe he was a test tube baby...hmmmm...MAYBE I WAS!!! shit...my mind's getting blown now....

    i do agree that someone knew something impending but to say this was a total conspiracy is pretty far fetched...

     


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    Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

    So to all the non believers that this wasnt a conspiracy, please show me one clear picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon

    just one.  I know there was no cameras aimed at one of the most secure buildings on the planet. Our cameras in space can read the date on a dime from hundreds of thousands a miles away and the best our govt can provide is a granny ass video where you cant make out what is hitting the building.

    come on people see thru the bullshit and use common sense.



    wow...why do so many think that our satellites are so advanced...i know you're joking about reading the date on a dime but come on...every bit of the footage/pics from the WTC are from civilians to my knowledge...when does the gov't release info from their satellites? perhaps that information is classified...there are words that are Top Secret...just one simple word...guessing anything from our tech is as well...

    there's no pics of my son being born so maybe he was a test tube baby...hmmmm...MAYBE I WAS!!! shit...my mind's getting blown now....

    i do agree that someone knew something impending but to say this was a total conspiracy is pretty far fetched...

     


     
    slikstiks99
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 10:38 AM ET #792

    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3


    Where is that supposed hedge fund manager now? The one calling people rubes and claiming this was normal activity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:

    The numbers being quoted here on the airline put options are significantly different from what I've found and it only bolsters smdio's argument. 


    THIS is all Random???? Think again.... 
    • A jump in UAL (United Airlines) put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. 
      -- CBS News, September 26
    • No similar trading occurred on any other airlines 
      -- Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel [citing data from the CBOE] 3


    Where is that supposed hedge fund manager now? The one calling people rubes and claiming this was normal activity.
     
    gfinger
    gfinger
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 10:55 AM ET #793

    Listen turd nuggets, investors were shorting the entire XAL Index around 9/11. Why you ask? Because anyone with half a brain knew that the airline industry's earnings were going to be down quite a bit due to rising fuel and labor costs at the time. Q3 was clearly going to post losses for airlines. Get over it. If you missed it, your loss.


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    Listen turd nuggets, investors were shorting the entire XAL Index around 9/11. Why you ask? Because anyone with half a brain knew that the airline industry's earnings were going to be down quite a bit due to rising fuel and labor costs at the time. Q3 was clearly going to post losses for airlines. Get over it. If you missed it, your loss.


     
    tillyo
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 12:40 PM ET #794

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiakita:

    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




    Thats unbeliveable   and I mean UNBELIVEABLE!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiakita:

    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




    Thats unbeliveable   and I mean UNBELIVEABLE!!!
     
    smdio
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 2:17 PM ET #795

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyo:

    Show me a picture of something else hitting the building.

     

    We cant!  That's the point.  They have confiscated any and all video from "whatever it was" that hit the building. 

    That doesn't seem irrational to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tillyo:

    Show me a picture of something else hitting the building.

     

    We cant!  That's the point.  They have confiscated any and all video from "whatever it was" that hit the building. 

    That doesn't seem irrational to you?

     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 2:19 PM ET #796

    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiakita:

    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




    Nice post, bravo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiakita:

    "Arguing" the facts about this tragic event is useless.  I lived in NYC for 11 years including the year 2001. 

    I have spoken with high figures in the MTA, Fire fighters, cops, people with offices in WTC who mysteriously survived, family members who had loved ones killed, two foreign consulates, EMT's, and many others.

    Could write a book about those conversations that would seriously make your head spin.  Problem is, the more you talk to people and investigate this, more and more unanswered questions come up. 

    And after asking some of those questions, there are even more.

    And the answers - or lack of - that you get are very disturbing. 

    Most people just dont like to talk about disturbing things.

    I LOVE America - it is my homeland, and where I grew up.

    But I can tell you I am still VERY upset with the lack of interest of most people to investigate this world changing event.  Simply accepting the govt version of this is to take a huge risk of allowing the real criminals to walk - and to jeopardize every good thing that America has stood for.

    Bottom line is -- our lying ass govt just cant seem to get their story right. 

    And in my opinion to blindly trust them on this one, is to do a real disservice to those who perished and to yourself as a true American.

    The FBI wont go near it.  That is enough for me to simply toss the "official" story line in the nearest incinerator.

    I challenge everyone to investigate, and have the courage and conviction to ask alot of questions about this event.  And do not assume that you KNOW anything.  It's just all information.  And the more you get, the better picture you will have of the world. 

    If there is anything you can "believe" it is that the REAL story simply IS NOT what you think you know right now.

    Cheers




    Nice post, bravo

     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 2:23 PM ET #797

    Quote Originally Posted by nuggins:



    i do agree that someone knew something impending but to say this was a total conspiracy is pretty far fetched...


     

    I've said this numerous times in this thread:  Little Lie = Big Lie

    If they're lying to us about the Pentagon, or Flight 93 being shot down, or WTC7 being brought down intentionally, what else are they lying about?  You don't tell just one lie.  You tell a series of lies to cover your other lies.  That's just how lying works.  Ask anyone in the field of psychology of the human brain

    And obviously, I think he was exagerrating about the dime metaphor, but he's 100% correct about the Pentagon having over 150 cameras focused on it at all times.  Of these 150 cameras, 80 of them would have had a clear shot of Flight 77 hitting the building.  Thus far, the government has released 4 of those 80 videos, and none of the 4 show a plane hitting the building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nuggins:



    i do agree that someone knew something impending but to say this was a total conspiracy is pretty far fetched...


     

    I've said this numerous times in this thread:  Little Lie = Big Lie

    If they're lying to us about the Pentagon, or Flight 93 being shot down, or WTC7 being brought down intentionally, what else are they lying about?  You don't tell just one lie.  You tell a series of lies to cover your other lies.  That's just how lying works.  Ask anyone in the field of psychology of the human brain

    And obviously, I think he was exagerrating about the dime metaphor, but he's 100% correct about the Pentagon having over 150 cameras focused on it at all times.  Of these 150 cameras, 80 of them would have had a clear shot of Flight 77 hitting the building.  Thus far, the government has released 4 of those 80 videos, and none of the 4 show a plane hitting the building.

     
    korbal29
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 2:36 PM ET #798

    this is what muslims around the world believe:

    were there muslim terrorists responsible for the WTC: yes

    was the US government aware of it: yes and there are way too many

    facts that support that : lack of air fighters anywhere on US soil to

    defend the country (even the pentagon) and implosion of the towers

    to leave a psychological effect in the US and sympathy around the

    world ,to have the bush team rule the world with his famous quote

    (with us or against us)

    did the US goverment commit this act of terrorism: no but should be

    charged for knowing and  helping making it bigger than it is.

    Clearly there are way too many unanswered questions :

    why did the US invade IRAQ when it should have went with all its might

    to afghanistan/pakistan to arrest bin laden and al qaida and bring them

    to justice.

    this is a total joke that you hardly even hear about bin laden in the

    news should have people question the government real motive on the

    whole war of terrorism

    another FACT: bush is going down as probably the worst US president

    ever...was called a MORON by a german official.

    everyone knows the real people pulling the strings were cheney,

    rumsfeld,etc..and everyone knows their connection with the oil people,

    matter of fact ,guess who is handling the IRAQI oil as we speak: USA

    It is sad to see people still trying to defend the crooked government

    and also sadder to keep trying to defend it when it doesnt care about

    their fellow citizens  but its own agenda

     

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    this is what muslims around the world believe:

    were there muslim terrorists responsible for the WTC: yes

    was the US government aware of it: yes and there are way too many

    facts that support that : lack of air fighters anywhere on US soil to

    defend the country (even the pentagon) and implosion of the towers

    to leave a psychological effect in the US and sympathy around the

    world ,to have the bush team rule the world with his famous quote

    (with us or against us)

    did the US goverment commit this act of terrorism: no but should be

    charged for knowing and  helping making it bigger than it is.

    Clearly there are way too many unanswered questions :

    why did the US invade IRAQ when it should have went with all its might

    to afghanistan/pakistan to arrest bin laden and al qaida and bring them

    to justice.

    this is a total joke that you hardly even hear about bin laden in the

    news should have people question the government real motive on the

    whole war of terrorism

    another FACT: bush is going down as probably the worst US president

    ever...was called a MORON by a german official.

    everyone knows the real people pulling the strings were cheney,

    rumsfeld,etc..and everyone knows their connection with the oil people,

    matter of fact ,guess who is handling the IRAQI oil as we speak: USA

    It is sad to see people still trying to defend the crooked government

    and also sadder to keep trying to defend it when it doesnt care about

    their fellow citizens  but its own agenda

     

     
    smdio
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 3:07 PM ET #799

    Quote Originally Posted by nuggins:




    there's no pics of my son being born so maybe he was a test tube baby...hmmmm...MAYBE I WAS!!! shit...my mind's getting blown now....

    If there were 150+ cameras focused on your/your son's birth, and none of them showed him coming out of the womb?  Then yes, I would question whether or not your son was a test tube baby, or was born naturally.  Wouldn't you?

    Please don't attempt to compare 2 issues without keeping all of the facts in line.  Your son's birth didn't have 150 cameras focused on it.  The Pentagon did.  You cannot compare the two situations.  Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nuggins:




    there's no pics of my son being born so maybe he was a test tube baby...hmmmm...MAYBE I WAS!!! shit...my mind's getting blown now....

    If there were 150+ cameras focused on your/your son's birth, and none of them showed him coming out of the womb?  Then yes, I would question whether or not your son was a test tube baby, or was born naturally.  Wouldn't you?

    Please don't attempt to compare 2 issues without keeping all of the facts in line.  Your son's birth didn't have 150 cameras focused on it.  The Pentagon did.  You cannot compare the two situations.  Period.

     
     
    tillyo
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    Posted: Nov. 16, 2010 - 3:27 PM ET #800

    [Quote: Originally Posted by smdio]

     

    I've said this numerous times in this thread:  Little Lie = Big Lie

    If they're lying to us about the Pentagon, or Flight 93 being shot down, or WTC7 being brought down intentionally, what else are they lying about?  You don't tell just one lie.  You tell a series of lies to cover your other lies.  That's just how lying works.  Ask anyone in the field of psychology of the human brain

    And obviously, I think he was exagerrating about the dime metaphor, but he's 100% correct about the Pentagon having over 150 cameras focused on it at all times.  Of these 150 cameras, 80 of them would have had a clear shot of Flight 77 hitting the building.  Thus far, the government has released 4 of those 80 videos, and none of the 4 show a plane hitting the building.

    [/Quote   just show me one picture then.
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    [Quote: Originally Posted by smdio]

     

    I've said this numerous times in this thread:  Little Lie = Big Lie

    If they're lying to us about the Pentagon, or Flight 93 being shot down, or WTC7 being brought down intentionally, what else are they lying about?  You don't tell just one lie.  You tell a series of lies to cover your other lies.  That's just how lying works.  Ask anyone in the field of psychology of the human brain

    And obviously, I think he was exagerrating about the dime metaphor, but he's 100% correct about the Pentagon having over 150 cameras focused on it at all times.  Of these 150 cameras, 80 of them would have had a clear shot of Flight 77 hitting the building.  Thus far, the government has released 4 of those 80 videos, and none of the 4 show a plane hitting the building.

    [/Quote   just show me one picture then.
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