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    All Forums | General Discussion

    September 11, 2001 (long read)

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    smdio
    trotter64
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    kickinA
    atlheatholder
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    smdio
    smdio
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2010
    Posts: 1094
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:01 PM ET #1

    This thread is intended to start a healthy debate and is NOT meant to offend anyone who has lost loved ones in the terrible events of September 11th, 2001. I lost my father in the event, so I'm with ya. If you feel like you'll be offended by a debate about the events on that day, please do not read any further.

    Premise: The events of September 11th were planned and executed by a "higher power". This "higher power" included some of the highest ranked officials in the United States government, as well as some of the most powerful and wealthiest businessmen and women in the world, and those that own, operate, and determine on a daily basis what our mainstream media will run in the newspapers, television stations, and other forms of media. This "higher power" group is know as the "Bilderberg Group".

    Facts:

    1.) Since 1992 and the bombings on the World Trade Center, bomb-sniffing dogs have been on patrol in both towers on a daily basis. These dogs are a security measure and have never missed a SINGLE DAY since the buildings were operational after the bombings of 1992.

    On September 9th, 2001, Bomb sniffing dogs were abruptly pulled from duty for the very first time in over 9 years. My father actually commented on the dismissal, and we discussed it briefly about how he thought "something was up" a couple days before the towers collapsed.

    In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cvjBViV7g

    You can see the explosions occuring on the floors immediately below the collapsing towers, and also about 20-30 floors below.

    2.) An object falls according to the following formula:

    Distance = 16.08 x (seconds)^squared

    The height of the WTC Towers was 1362 feet. Our formula is now:

    1362 = 16.08 x (seconds)^squared

    Doing the math to solve for the number of seconds, we would get this:

    1362 = 16.08 x (84.7)^squared

    If we take the Square Root of 84.7, we get 9.2 seconds. Free-fall speed for the WTC Towers would have been 9.2 seconds, according to the laws of physics.

    Tower 1 fell in just under 10 seconds.

    Tower 2 fell in just under 9 seconds.

    Both Towers fell in absolute Free-Fall speed.

    "If you were to walk through an open doorway, would you be able to walk through the same opening, in the same amount of time, if the doorway were closed?"

    The video of the "controlled demolition" can be seen here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG7I4UnoBnA

    3.) The United States Government had listed the official reason for the WTC towers collapse was "fire".

    At approximately 5:20 PM on September 11th, 2001, Tower #7, a 47-story building (which contained offices of the CIA, Department of Defense, Secret Service, IRS, and containing files with investigations of Wall Street corruption) fell to the ground in nearly free-fall speed. The "official investigation" that the government concluded listed the cause of collapse as "Falling debris from the WTC towers that ignited an internal fire which caused the steel frames to soften and give way". All buildings surrounding Tower #7 remained in tact.

    If this were true, Tower #7 would be just the THIRD tower in the history of civilization to fall because of fire. The first two? The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center.

    On July 28th, 1945, a B-52 bomber got lost in fog over New York City, and struck the 79th floor of the Empire State Building, causing a fire over 7 floors. 14 people died. The building did not collapse.

    On February 14th, 1975, the 9th to 14th floors of the North Tower of the WTC burned for nearly 9 hours. The building did not collapse.

    On May 4th, 1988, a 62-story Sky Scraper in Los Angeles burned for 14 hours, and stretched over 14 floors. The building did not collapse.

    On February 23rd, 1991, a 38-story Sky Scraper in Philadelphia (built in 1973), burned for 19 hours and stretched over 8 floors. It did not collapse.

    On October 17th, 2004, a 56-story building in Venezuela (built in 1976), was struck by a passenger aircraft. The huge blaze stretched over 26 floors and burned for 21 hours. The building did not collapse.

    On February 12, 2005, the Windsor building in Madrid, framed in steel reinforced concrete, caught fire which stretched over 32 stories, completely eradicating the upper 10 stories of the building. The top 10 stories fell. The building did not collapse.

    Both WTC Towers fell roughly 30 minutes after being struck.

    Let's move on..

    Reply
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    This thread is intended to start a healthy debate and is NOT meant to offend anyone who has lost loved ones in the terrible events of September 11th, 2001. I lost my father in the event, so I'm with ya. If you feel like you'll be offended by a debate about the events on that day, please do not read any further.

    Premise: The events of September 11th were planned and executed by a "higher power". This "higher power" included some of the highest ranked officials in the United States government, as well as some of the most powerful and wealthiest businessmen and women in the world, and those that own, operate, and determine on a daily basis what our mainstream media will run in the newspapers, television stations, and other forms of media. This "higher power" group is know as the "Bilderberg Group".

    Facts:

    1.) Since 1992 and the bombings on the World Trade Center, bomb-sniffing dogs have been on patrol in both towers on a daily basis. These dogs are a security measure and have never missed a SINGLE DAY since the buildings were operational after the bombings of 1992.

    On September 9th, 2001, Bomb sniffing dogs were abruptly pulled from duty for the very first time in over 9 years. My father actually commented on the dismissal, and we discussed it briefly about how he thought "something was up" a couple days before the towers collapsed.

    In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cvjBViV7g

    You can see the explosions occuring on the floors immediately below the collapsing towers, and also about 20-30 floors below.

    2.) An object falls according to the following formula:

    Distance = 16.08 x (seconds)^squared

    The height of the WTC Towers was 1362 feet. Our formula is now:

    1362 = 16.08 x (seconds)^squared

    Doing the math to solve for the number of seconds, we would get this:

    1362 = 16.08 x (84.7)^squared

    If we take the Square Root of 84.7, we get 9.2 seconds. Free-fall speed for the WTC Towers would have been 9.2 seconds, according to the laws of physics.

    Tower 1 fell in just under 10 seconds.

    Tower 2 fell in just under 9 seconds.

    Both Towers fell in absolute Free-Fall speed.

    "If you were to walk through an open doorway, would you be able to walk through the same opening, in the same amount of time, if the doorway were closed?"

    The video of the "controlled demolition" can be seen here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG7I4UnoBnA

    3.) The United States Government had listed the official reason for the WTC towers collapse was "fire".

    At approximately 5:20 PM on September 11th, 2001, Tower #7, a 47-story building (which contained offices of the CIA, Department of Defense, Secret Service, IRS, and containing files with investigations of Wall Street corruption) fell to the ground in nearly free-fall speed. The "official investigation" that the government concluded listed the cause of collapse as "Falling debris from the WTC towers that ignited an internal fire which caused the steel frames to soften and give way". All buildings surrounding Tower #7 remained in tact.

    If this were true, Tower #7 would be just the THIRD tower in the history of civilization to fall because of fire. The first two? The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center.

    On July 28th, 1945, a B-52 bomber got lost in fog over New York City, and struck the 79th floor of the Empire State Building, causing a fire over 7 floors. 14 people died. The building did not collapse.

    On February 14th, 1975, the 9th to 14th floors of the North Tower of the WTC burned for nearly 9 hours. The building did not collapse.

    On May 4th, 1988, a 62-story Sky Scraper in Los Angeles burned for 14 hours, and stretched over 14 floors. The building did not collapse.

    On February 23rd, 1991, a 38-story Sky Scraper in Philadelphia (built in 1973), burned for 19 hours and stretched over 8 floors. It did not collapse.

    On October 17th, 2004, a 56-story building in Venezuela (built in 1976), was struck by a passenger aircraft. The huge blaze stretched over 26 floors and burned for 21 hours. The building did not collapse.

    On February 12, 2005, the Windsor building in Madrid, framed in steel reinforced concrete, caught fire which stretched over 32 stories, completely eradicating the upper 10 stories of the building. The top 10 stories fell. The building did not collapse.

    Both WTC Towers fell roughly 30 minutes after being struck.

    Let's move on..

     
    smdio
    smdio
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2010
    Posts: 1094
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:02 PM ET #2

    (continued)

    4.) Nothing even remotely close to an airplane crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. This is the famous "Let's Roll" passenger group from Flight 93. Let me explain:

    To this day, not a single piece of wreckage was ever recovered from Flight 93. No engine, no metal debris, nothing. Not a single body was ever recovered from Flight 93. The County Coroner spent roughly 5 minutes at the seen, only to conclude that "there is not a single drop of blood anywhere near the crash site".

    In 1995, a 200 passenger plane struck the side of a mountain in Nigeria, while traveling nearly full-speed, due to a malfunction in the fuel-injectors. The mountain was mainly rock. Engine pieces, tail sections, black boxes, and even bodies of the deceased passengers were found at the scene. Flight 93 would be the first flight in the history of civilization to have "completely disappeared" without a trace, leaving absolutely zero evidence at its crash site.

    We've all heard about the phone conversations that were made while the "hijackers" were in control of the plane. There were 13 total phone conversations, all placed from cell phones, in which the passengers had supposedly called their families from the aircraft.

    First of all, have any of you ever tried to use a cell phone while flying at 20,000 feet? It is impossible. Our current technology doesn't allow us such possibilities. Every cell phone company on record has insisted that these calls are not possible.

    Another "intriguing" aspect of the phone conversations is the actually dialogue used during the conversations:

    Mark Bingham: "Mom, this is Mark Bingham"

    Alice Bingham (Marks mother): "Mark, are you okay?"

    Mark Bingham: "Mom. They have bombs. You believe me, don't you mom?"

    When was the last time you called your mother, and referred to yourself by both your first and last name? I know I never have, yet this is the transcript of what the U.S. government issued following the 9/11 attacks.

    There are numerous other discrepancies in the phone logs, which we'll get to later.

    5.) Anyone in the stock market? Let's talk about who benefited from the September 11th attacks.

    On July 24th, 2001, Larry A. Silverstein (a known Bilderberg member), who already owned WTC #7, signed a $3.2 Billion, 99-year lease, on the entire WTC complex, just 6 weeks before 9/11. Included in the lease? A $3.5 Billion insurance policy, specifically covering acts of terrorism.

    September 6th, 2001, 3150 "put options" were placed on United Airlines stock. For those that are not into the stock market, a "put option" is basically a bet that a certain stock will fall. The put options for that specific stock on that day were nearly 10x the normal amount.

    September 7th, 2001, 27,294 put options were placed on Boeing stock, which was nearly 15x it's daily average.

    September 10th, 2001, 4516 put options were placed on American Airlines stock, which was nearly 11x it's daily average.

    Nearly 3 dozen "top Pentagon officials" canceled their flights on the morning of September 11th. All of these officials are confirmed to be members of the Bilderberg Group.

    I've lost my father in the terrible events that occurred on this day. It's a day that I'll never forget, and I think about ever single day since it's occurred. But I want answers. I've yet to get answers from our government, although I've written thousands of emails, and called hundreds of phone numbers. I want answers to the above contradictions, and I don't want to be pushed aside.

    I'd love to know what the covers community thinks. If you are too naive to believe that something like this can (and most likely has) been staged, and you cannot offer any sort of constructive debate, please find your way out of this thread without responding.

    Reply
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    Report User

    (continued)

    4.) Nothing even remotely close to an airplane crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. This is the famous "Let's Roll" passenger group from Flight 93. Let me explain:

    To this day, not a single piece of wreckage was ever recovered from Flight 93. No engine, no metal debris, nothing. Not a single body was ever recovered from Flight 93. The County Coroner spent roughly 5 minutes at the seen, only to conclude that "there is not a single drop of blood anywhere near the crash site".

    In 1995, a 200 passenger plane struck the side of a mountain in Nigeria, while traveling nearly full-speed, due to a malfunction in the fuel-injectors. The mountain was mainly rock. Engine pieces, tail sections, black boxes, and even bodies of the deceased passengers were found at the scene. Flight 93 would be the first flight in the history of civilization to have "completely disappeared" without a trace, leaving absolutely zero evidence at its crash site.

    We've all heard about the phone conversations that were made while the "hijackers" were in control of the plane. There were 13 total phone conversations, all placed from cell phones, in which the passengers had supposedly called their families from the aircraft.

    First of all, have any of you ever tried to use a cell phone while flying at 20,000 feet? It is impossible. Our current technology doesn't allow us such possibilities. Every cell phone company on record has insisted that these calls are not possible.

    Another "intriguing" aspect of the phone conversations is the actually dialogue used during the conversations:

    Mark Bingham: "Mom, this is Mark Bingham"

    Alice Bingham (Marks mother): "Mark, are you okay?"

    Mark Bingham: "Mom. They have bombs. You believe me, don't you mom?"

    When was the last time you called your mother, and referred to yourself by both your first and last name? I know I never have, yet this is the transcript of what the U.S. government issued following the 9/11 attacks.

    There are numerous other discrepancies in the phone logs, which we'll get to later.

    5.) Anyone in the stock market? Let's talk about who benefited from the September 11th attacks.

    On July 24th, 2001, Larry A. Silverstein (a known Bilderberg member), who already owned WTC #7, signed a $3.2 Billion, 99-year lease, on the entire WTC complex, just 6 weeks before 9/11. Included in the lease? A $3.5 Billion insurance policy, specifically covering acts of terrorism.

    September 6th, 2001, 3150 "put options" were placed on United Airlines stock. For those that are not into the stock market, a "put option" is basically a bet that a certain stock will fall. The put options for that specific stock on that day were nearly 10x the normal amount.

    September 7th, 2001, 27,294 put options were placed on Boeing stock, which was nearly 15x it's daily average.

    September 10th, 2001, 4516 put options were placed on American Airlines stock, which was nearly 11x it's daily average.

    Nearly 3 dozen "top Pentagon officials" canceled their flights on the morning of September 11th. All of these officials are confirmed to be members of the Bilderberg Group.

    I've lost my father in the terrible events that occurred on this day. It's a day that I'll never forget, and I think about ever single day since it's occurred. But I want answers. I've yet to get answers from our government, although I've written thousands of emails, and called hundreds of phone numbers. I want answers to the above contradictions, and I don't want to be pushed aside.

    I'd love to know what the covers community thinks. If you are too naive to believe that something like this can (and most likely has) been staged, and you cannot offer any sort of constructive debate, please find your way out of this thread without responding.

     
    trotter64
    trotter64
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    Posts: 4360
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:12 PM ET #3

    Sorry to hear that you lost your father to this horrible event. I lost two friends myself that day.

    I don't think any of this was staged... not one bit.

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    Sorry to hear that you lost your father to this horrible event. I lost two friends myself that day.

    I don't think any of this was staged... not one bit.

     
    3rd_and_Long
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:15 PM ET #4

    There's a whole lot about 9/11 that doesn't add up, but the sad truth is if you doubt the official story you are instantly dismissed as a conspiracy nut.

    Just simple common sense things like how come there is no video of a plane striking the Pentagon? You would think a building of that importance would have multiple secuity cameras worth of footage.

    They couldn't clear & destroy the debris (aka evidence) from the towers fast enough. Where are the black boxes? Supposedly only 1 out of 4 were recovered in the tower debris - that has NEVER happened before, they always find those things.

    The whole Flight 93 story and susequent movie - please.

     Let's roll. Some spin doctor somewhere is laughing his ass off over that one.

    But most of all, Osama Bin Laden hasn't been captured almost 10 years later. Our government could spot a mole on my ass from space, but they can't find the man responsible for the largest act of terror ever committed on US soil? Bullshit.

    Truth is, we'll never know the truth.  

    Reply
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    There's a whole lot about 9/11 that doesn't add up, but the sad truth is if you doubt the official story you are instantly dismissed as a conspiracy nut.

    Just simple common sense things like how come there is no video of a plane striking the Pentagon? You would think a building of that importance would have multiple secuity cameras worth of footage.

    They couldn't clear & destroy the debris (aka evidence) from the towers fast enough. Where are the black boxes? Supposedly only 1 out of 4 were recovered in the tower debris - that has NEVER happened before, they always find those things.

    The whole Flight 93 story and susequent movie - please.

     Let's roll. Some spin doctor somewhere is laughing his ass off over that one.

    But most of all, Osama Bin Laden hasn't been captured almost 10 years later. Our government could spot a mole on my ass from space, but they can't find the man responsible for the largest act of terror ever committed on US soil? Bullshit.

    Truth is, we'll never know the truth.  

     
    kickinA
    kickinA
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    Joined: Oct, 2004
    Posts: 13462
    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:20 PM ET #5

    "but the sad truth is if you doubt the official story you are instantly dismissed as a conspiracy nut. "

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    "but the sad truth is if you doubt the official story you are instantly dismissed as a conspiracy nut. "

     
    atlheatholder
    atlheatholder
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:37 PM ET #6

    smdio -

    Sorry for the loss of your father.

    I'm on this side of the debate:  our government had an enormous amount to do with 09-11-01.

    I don't trust our government at all - about anything.  The CIA, the IRS, the Dept. of Education, etc.

    Hopefully there can be some good dialogue in this thread without bashing.

    And like 3rd said, "truth is, we'll never know the truth."

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    smdio -

    Sorry for the loss of your father.

    I'm on this side of the debate:  our government had an enormous amount to do with 09-11-01.

    I don't trust our government at all - about anything.  The CIA, the IRS, the Dept. of Education, etc.

    Hopefully there can be some good dialogue in this thread without bashing.

    And like 3rd said, "truth is, we'll never know the truth."

     
    ballsofsteel
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:40 PM ET #7

    Bro I am sorry to hear about your father and the others that were affected by that horrible event. Very alarming information leading up to and following.

    It is just sickening to find out what corrupt assholes our government actually is. Its amazing how much they actually get away with and it makes me mad. They get elected into all thier positions and then they make sure thier pockets get fat and make sure thier own families get hooked up. But the downside to this is that they routinely ruin thousands of peoples lives if not more and sometimes thier greedy deciisions result in loss of lives.

    But the majority of clueless americans still believe our officials when they talk and believe what they say is in our best interests. Just sickening.

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    Bro I am sorry to hear about your father and the others that were affected by that horrible event. Very alarming information leading up to and following.

    It is just sickening to find out what corrupt assholes our government actually is. Its amazing how much they actually get away with and it makes me mad. They get elected into all thier positions and then they make sure thier pockets get fat and make sure thier own families get hooked up. But the downside to this is that they routinely ruin thousands of peoples lives if not more and sometimes thier greedy deciisions result in loss of lives.

    But the majority of clueless americans still believe our officials when they talk and believe what they say is in our best interests. Just sickening.

     
    smdio
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:43 PM ET #8

    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

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    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

     
    equalblueberrys
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:48 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by trotter64:

    Sorry to hear that you lost your father to this horrible event. I lost two friends myself that day.

    I don't think any of this was staged... not one bit.




              
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    Quote Originally Posted by trotter64:

    Sorry to hear that you lost your father to this horrible event. I lost two friends myself that day.

    I don't think any of this was staged... not one bit.




              
     
    Skipbone
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 8:49 PM ET #10

    What i thought was weird was after one day the media had names, pics, back stories, everything about the hijackers. Almost like it was all pre-written for their convenience. 
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    What i thought was weird was after one day the media had names, pics, back stories, everything about the hijackers. Almost like it was all pre-written for their convenience. 
     
    LeafsNeedD
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 9:05 PM ET #11

    I'm buying what you're selling. 

    Some of the shit is so obvious like making cell phone calls from a hijacked plane 20,000 feet.  How stupid can people be? 
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    I'm buying what you're selling. 

    Some of the shit is so obvious like making cell phone calls from a hijacked plane 20,000 feet.  How stupid can people be? 
     
    dish
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 9:27 PM ET #12

    I think you need to contact Michael Moore, maybe you can get further in your search. 
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    I think you need to contact Michael Moore, maybe you can get further in your search. 
     
    Johnzimbo34
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 9:36 PM ET #13

    Jesse Ventura should be calling you shortly
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    Jesse Ventura should be calling you shortly
     
    GetPaid25
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 9:50 PM ET #14

    just another reason for us to go over there for oil.
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    just another reason for us to go over there for oil.
     
    shootzbra
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 11:49 PM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

    Sounds more like a show I saw on tv some time ago.Word for word,to the tee.Now thats sad....Oh,I lost a good friend on Flight 93...where is the plane if it did not crash?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

    Sounds more like a show I saw on tv some time ago.Word for word,to the tee.Now thats sad....Oh,I lost a good friend on Flight 93...where is the plane if it did not crash?
     
    qball1324
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    Posted: Oct. 18, 2010 - 11:56 PM ET #16

    there were also no markings on the plans that hit the building so we don't even know what airline they were
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    there were also no markings on the plans that hit the building so we don't even know what airline they were
     
    Spitfire15
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:00 AM ET #17

    There are recorded phone calls from people who are about to die on flight 93.  Sorry about your Dad... but get it together.  There is some fishy shit on 9/11 otherwise, but you can't act like every rumor you hear about it is fact.
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    There are recorded phone calls from people who are about to die on flight 93.  Sorry about your Dad... but get it together.  There is some fishy shit on 9/11 otherwise, but you can't act like every rumor you hear about it is fact.
     
    CountNo_Account
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:01 AM ET #18

    Cui Bono?
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    Cui Bono?
     
    Spitfire15
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:02 AM ET #19

    Sorry, I clearly didn't read your post at all
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    Sorry, I clearly didn't read your post at all
     
    Spitfire15
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:04 AM ET #20

    Sorry, I clearly didn't read your post at all



    Smdio,

    What was the point of the set up?
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    Sorry, I clearly didn't read your post at all



    Smdio,

    What was the point of the set up?
     
    tiasman
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:17 AM ET #21

    I will go in order of your "facts"

    1.  FALSE.  There were bomb sniffing dogs in the buildings, just like there had always been since the first bomb attack in the 90's.  In fact, one bomb sniffing K9, Sirius, and his handler, Officer David Lim, perished in WTC one.  The dogs were all on the ground floor, and always were, and were there to check vehicles entering the parking garages.  Most made it out due to the location.  They were there on 9/11.  This myth began because of a newsday story where one officer stated that she wished they had been there that day, but her unit had been reassigned a few days earlier.  The internet ran with it.  The dogs were there to catch car bombs, not 767's.
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    I will go in order of your "facts"

    1.  FALSE.  There were bomb sniffing dogs in the buildings, just like there had always been since the first bomb attack in the 90's.  In fact, one bomb sniffing K9, Sirius, and his handler, Officer David Lim, perished in WTC one.  The dogs were all on the ground floor, and always were, and were there to check vehicles entering the parking garages.  Most made it out due to the location.  They were there on 9/11.  This myth began because of a newsday story where one officer stated that she wished they had been there that day, but her unit had been reassigned a few days earlier.  The internet ran with it.  The dogs were there to catch car bombs, not 767's.
     
    tiasman
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:25 AM ET #22

    2.  I admit I had to look this "freefall" stuff up. There are many sites out there just devoted to this, and times for each tower to fall range from 8 seconds to 20 seconds, all hotly contested with their very own handy dandy formulas.  So I guess on this one you just get to pick and choose which formula fits your belief. 

    One thing I found interesting is that if you watch the collapses, the debris coming out from the buildings beats the buildings to the ground, which would lead one to say that the buildings had to be falling slower than "freefall" because the debri could not be falling "faster than free fall".
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    2.  I admit I had to look this "freefall" stuff up. There are many sites out there just devoted to this, and times for each tower to fall range from 8 seconds to 20 seconds, all hotly contested with their very own handy dandy formulas.  So I guess on this one you just get to pick and choose which formula fits your belief. 

    One thing I found interesting is that if you watch the collapses, the debris coming out from the buildings beats the buildings to the ground, which would lead one to say that the buildings had to be falling slower than "freefall" because the debri could not be falling "faster than free fall".
     
    tiasman
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:47 AM ET #23

    3.
    WTC 7:  The NYCFD Battalion chief John Norman reported, immediately after the collapse of the first two towers, that 7 was unstable and would go down next.  It was immediately evacuated and if you google it, you can see the massive structural damages it took before it collapsed.  There are photos taken from NYPD choppers that show it clearly.  One corner of the building is completely sheered away from debris.


    Of the two buildings in your "facts" that were actually hit by a plane and can be used for comparison:

    Empire State State Building:  In 1945, the B-52 did not exist .  It was a much smaller plane, a B 25, the pilot knew he was going to hit something, he dodged for sky scrapers, he was banking hard and PULLING UP at stall speed when he hit the building.  Most of the fuel spilled down the side of the building and did not ignite.  11 people were killed, some burned, but the fire was quickly put out.  This building also differed as dramatically from the construction of the WTC as a 767 differs from a B 25

    Venezuela, it was a small plane that hit the FIRE DEPT at the airport, no 57 story building was hit in 2004 or "burned for hours", whereever you got this story from, is not telling the truth.

    18 November 2004; Rutas Aereas Venezolanas (RAVSA) BAe Jetstream 31; Caracas, Venezuela: The aircraft was on a scheduled domestic flight from El Vigia to Caracas and crashed after landing during heavy rain at the Caracas airport. After landing, the aircraft departed the runway and crashed into the airport fire department headquarters and caught fire. That fire was quickly put out by the fire fighters in the building.
    Both crew members survived, but four of the 19 passengers were killed.

    So one building was hit by a pilot desperately trying to avoid it (instead of full throttle into it), and another was a FIRE DEPT hit by a small plane skidding on the runway.  Hardly comparable.

    None of the other fires you describe could mimick the intense heat caused by the thousands of gallons of jet fuel that slammed into the WTC at full speed.

    I will continue tomorrow with this, see you then. 
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    3.
    WTC 7:  The NYCFD Battalion chief John Norman reported, immediately after the collapse of the first two towers, that 7 was unstable and would go down next.  It was immediately evacuated and if you google it, you can see the massive structural damages it took before it collapsed.  There are photos taken from NYPD choppers that show it clearly.  One corner of the building is completely sheered away from debris.


    Of the two buildings in your "facts" that were actually hit by a plane and can be used for comparison:

    Empire State State Building:  In 1945, the B-52 did not exist .  It was a much smaller plane, a B 25, the pilot knew he was going to hit something, he dodged for sky scrapers, he was banking hard and PULLING UP at stall speed when he hit the building.  Most of the fuel spilled down the side of the building and did not ignite.  11 people were killed, some burned, but the fire was quickly put out.  This building also differed as dramatically from the construction of the WTC as a 767 differs from a B 25

    Venezuela, it was a small plane that hit the FIRE DEPT at the airport, no 57 story building was hit in 2004 or "burned for hours", whereever you got this story from, is not telling the truth.

    18 November 2004; Rutas Aereas Venezolanas (RAVSA) BAe Jetstream 31; Caracas, Venezuela: The aircraft was on a scheduled domestic flight from El Vigia to Caracas and crashed after landing during heavy rain at the Caracas airport. After landing, the aircraft departed the runway and crashed into the airport fire department headquarters and caught fire. That fire was quickly put out by the fire fighters in the building.
    Both crew members survived, but four of the 19 passengers were killed.

    So one building was hit by a pilot desperately trying to avoid it (instead of full throttle into it), and another was a FIRE DEPT hit by a small plane skidding on the runway.  Hardly comparable.

    None of the other fires you describe could mimick the intense heat caused by the thousands of gallons of jet fuel that slammed into the WTC at full speed.

    I will continue tomorrow with this, see you then. 
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 12:49 AM ET #24

    You don't say...very interesting smdio!

     

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    You don't say...very interesting smdio!

     

     
     
    Dude_Abides
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    Posted: Oct. 19, 2010 - 3:22 AM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

    I've yet to get answers from our government, although I've written thousands of emails, and called hundreds of phone numbers. I want answers to the above contradictions, and I don't want to be pushed aside.

    smdio, whatever the circumstances behind 9-11 you need to put closure on things. Writing thousands of emails and calling hundreds of people isn't going to do a lick of good. You are beating yourself up over the death of your father - hopefully one day you can move on. 

    I sincerely wish you all the best

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    Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

    Guys, I appreciate the kind words about my dad.  I really do.  I didn't really start this thread to get sympathy for myself or his death though.  I'm more interested to see if anyone has the "opposite end of the spectrum" view on the thoughts I posted above.  I can't stop  about it already.  Really driving me insane.

    Or if you agree, like most have so far, that's cool too

    I've yet to get answers from our government, although I've written thousands of emails, and called hundreds of phone numbers. I want answers to the above contradictions, and I don't want to be pushed aside.

    smdio, whatever the circumstances behind 9-11 you need to put closure on things. Writing thousands of emails and calling hundreds of people isn't going to do a lick of good. You are beating yourself up over the death of your father - hopefully one day you can move on. 

    I sincerely wish you all the best

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