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All Forums | General Discussion

September 11, 2001 (long read)

«First Previous 141516 ... 616263 Next Last»
smdio
tpjw44
reillym32
nikon
johnyutah
...
Participants:
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smdio
smdio
Veteran
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Joined: Oct, 2010
Posts: 1094
Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 3:12 PM ET #326

Quote Originally Posted by tpjw44:

First, I posted a video that shows the towers did not collapse in 9.22 seconds.  Second, "...whereas bin Laden was left-handed, the man in the "Jalalabad video" wrote with his right hand."  You have your facts backwards.  I would think with all the "research" you have done you wouldn't get so mixed up...ya know, like the difference between 1996 and 2006?  This is also typical of the conspiracy nuts.  They pull little "factoids" from various videos/sites and spew them out without investigating them.  Can you please provide someone here with a credible link when you try to make a point?

I've already posted the video.  Had you read the thread and actually took place in the debate, you would have known that

I got the left hand and right hand backwards, you're correct.  Point still stands though

And why didn't you address the guy with no legs?  No answer to that?

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Quote Originally Posted by tpjw44:

First, I posted a video that shows the towers did not collapse in 9.22 seconds.  Second, "...whereas bin Laden was left-handed, the man in the "Jalalabad video" wrote with his right hand."  You have your facts backwards.  I would think with all the "research" you have done you wouldn't get so mixed up...ya know, like the difference between 1996 and 2006?  This is also typical of the conspiracy nuts.  They pull little "factoids" from various videos/sites and spew them out without investigating them.  Can you please provide someone here with a credible link when you try to make a point?

I've already posted the video.  Had you read the thread and actually took place in the debate, you would have known that

I got the left hand and right hand backwards, you're correct.  Point still stands though

And why didn't you address the guy with no legs?  No answer to that?

 
tpjw44
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 3:16 PM ET #327

Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

I've already posted the video.  Had you read the thread and actually took place in the debate, you would have known that

I got the left hand and right hand backwards, you're correct.  Point still stands though

And why didn't you address the guy with no legs?  No answer to that?



You don't need to address our points, but we must address yours?  Please watch the video that I posted about the WTC collapse.  Also, please post a credible link that discusses the guy with no legs.  When you do so I will answer that.  What you fail to realize is the majority of the factual evidence SUPPORTS the official version.  You need to show evidence why that is wrong.  Asking us to prove unsubstantiated claims false is not how a debate works.
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Quote Originally Posted by smdio:

I've already posted the video.  Had you read the thread and actually took place in the debate, you would have known that

I got the left hand and right hand backwards, you're correct.  Point still stands though

And why didn't you address the guy with no legs?  No answer to that?



You don't need to address our points, but we must address yours?  Please watch the video that I posted about the WTC collapse.  Also, please post a credible link that discusses the guy with no legs.  When you do so I will answer that.  What you fail to realize is the majority of the factual evidence SUPPORTS the official version.  You need to show evidence why that is wrong.  Asking us to prove unsubstantiated claims false is not how a debate works.
 
tpjw44
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 3:22 PM ET #328

And two seconds finds this:

The Saudi citizen pictured conversing with Osama bin Laden about the September 11 terrorist attacks in a videotape released last week is a former Mujahedeen and war compatriot of bin Laden, not the man initially identified by U.S. officials, senior Saudi officials told CNN on Sunday.

Saudi officials said the man on the tape is Khaled al-Harbi, who fought with bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan about 20 years ago. On Friday, one day after the Pentagon released the videotape, U.S. officials said the man visiting bin Laden was Ali Sayeed al-Ghamdy, a former Islamic theology professor once imprisoned by the Saudi government.

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Officials believe the tape depicts bin Laden as the honoree at a dinner that includes several visitors, with al-Harbi being one of the most vocal.

The Saudi government said al Harbi, about 38 or 39, fought with bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Saudi officials believe al-Harbi returned to the battlefield in the mid-1990s, joining up with al Qaeda and losing at least one of his legs in combat.

That handicap caught the eyes of Saudi officials who saw the videotape last week, and convinced them the man could not be al-Ghamdy.

"We said, 'Wait a minute, he has no legs,'" one official recalled.

A Saudi official attributed the mistaken identity to "confusing" exchanges between the al-Harbi, bin Laden and another guest in the room where most of the recorded dialogue took place.

In the video, al-Harbi sits to bin Laden's left, and says the word "sheik." Though al-Harbi was talking to another guest when he uttered the word, "he was actually talking about bin Laden," one senior Saudi official said.



So not us, but the Saudis pointed out the mistake.  There are answers out there, you just need to look for them buddy.  Sometimes when events occur, that have never taken place in human history, things aren't always what they are first perceived to be.  Like, oh say, 9/11?


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And two seconds finds this:

The Saudi citizen pictured conversing with Osama bin Laden about the September 11 terrorist attacks in a videotape released last week is a former Mujahedeen and war compatriot of bin Laden, not the man initially identified by U.S. officials, senior Saudi officials told CNN on Sunday.

Saudi officials said the man on the tape is Khaled al-Harbi, who fought with bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan about 20 years ago. On Friday, one day after the Pentagon released the videotape, U.S. officials said the man visiting bin Laden was Ali Sayeed al-Ghamdy, a former Islamic theology professor once imprisoned by the Saudi government.

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Officials believe the tape depicts bin Laden as the honoree at a dinner that includes several visitors, with al-Harbi being one of the most vocal.

The Saudi government said al Harbi, about 38 or 39, fought with bin Laden against the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Saudi officials believe al-Harbi returned to the battlefield in the mid-1990s, joining up with al Qaeda and losing at least one of his legs in combat.

That handicap caught the eyes of Saudi officials who saw the videotape last week, and convinced them the man could not be al-Ghamdy.

"We said, 'Wait a minute, he has no legs,'" one official recalled.

A Saudi official attributed the mistaken identity to "confusing" exchanges between the al-Harbi, bin Laden and another guest in the room where most of the recorded dialogue took place.

In the video, al-Harbi sits to bin Laden's left, and says the word "sheik." Though al-Harbi was talking to another guest when he uttered the word, "he was actually talking about bin Laden," one senior Saudi official said.



So not us, but the Saudis pointed out the mistake.  There are answers out there, you just need to look for them buddy.  Sometimes when events occur, that have never taken place in human history, things aren't always what they are first perceived to be.  Like, oh say, 9/11?


 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 4:27 PM ET #329

tpjw44, there is no use in arguing with these guys, even if you have evidence or proof or anything like that, they will claim you are going to websites controlled by the government that don't want us to know the truth.  The only place these people like to get there information is from movies like loose change and websites which try and explain pictures as being total proof that the government was the ones who did 9/11.  Any kind of explanation that makes any sense is actually government controlled and thats what they want us to hear.  Guys like these have no actual life except to sit on the internet and look up conspiracies.  He has probably tried to make a conspiracy out of anything like Pearl Harbor and JFK.  They probably think that any natural disaster is a conspiracy to.  We don't really have earthquakes, its the government causing the earth to shake to kill people off so they can build new buildings where the damaged ones are or the Hurricanes aren't really there the government as big blowing machines up in the sky and caused katrina because they hate all the people in poverty there.
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tpjw44, there is no use in arguing with these guys, even if you have evidence or proof or anything like that, they will claim you are going to websites controlled by the government that don't want us to know the truth.  The only place these people like to get there information is from movies like loose change and websites which try and explain pictures as being total proof that the government was the ones who did 9/11.  Any kind of explanation that makes any sense is actually government controlled and thats what they want us to hear.  Guys like these have no actual life except to sit on the internet and look up conspiracies.  He has probably tried to make a conspiracy out of anything like Pearl Harbor and JFK.  They probably think that any natural disaster is a conspiracy to.  We don't really have earthquakes, its the government causing the earth to shake to kill people off so they can build new buildings where the damaged ones are or the Hurricanes aren't really there the government as big blowing machines up in the sky and caused katrina because they hate all the people in poverty there.
 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 4:40 PM ET #330

There is no proving anything to you.  You don't want proof, you want everyone to believe that the government caused 9/11.  Any evidence put on here you will come up with some crazy story to put it down.  Just like the craziness said earlier in the post about Flight 93, you guys are just crazy, you say throw me a logical argument, but there is no logical argument with you, you have a one track mind and nothing said to you or shown to you will change you mind.  You are the living definition of a conspiracy theorist.
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There is no proving anything to you.  You don't want proof, you want everyone to believe that the government caused 9/11.  Any evidence put on here you will come up with some crazy story to put it down.  Just like the craziness said earlier in the post about Flight 93, you guys are just crazy, you say throw me a logical argument, but there is no logical argument with you, you have a one track mind and nothing said to you or shown to you will change you mind.  You are the living definition of a conspiracy theorist.
 
tpjw44
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 5:05 PM ET #331

Quote Originally Posted by reillym32:

tpjw44, there is no use in arguing with these guys, even if you have evidence or proof or anything like that, they will claim you are going to websites controlled by the government that don't want us to know the truth.  The only place these people like to get there information is from movies like loose change and websites which try and explain pictures as being total proof that the government was the ones who did 9/11.  Any kind of explanation that makes any sense is actually government controlled and thats what they want us to hear.  Guys like these have no actual life except to sit on the internet and look up conspiracies.  He has probably tried to make a conspiracy out of anything like Pearl Harbor and JFK.  They probably think that any natural disaster is a conspiracy to.  We don't really have earthquakes, its the government causing the earth to shake to kill people off so they can build new buildings where the damaged ones are or the Hurricanes aren't really there the government as big blowing machines up in the sky and caused katrina because they hate all the people in poverty there.


You're right and I didn't want to get sucked in but I did.  It annoys because there's a lot of people out there who don't take the time to research.  Those are the same people who can easily be influenced by what the conspiracy nuts are saying.  I admit when I first watched Loose Change I walked around for a couple days thinking there was a STRONG possibility there was a conspiracy.  I was very interested so I took the time to see what others were saying about those claims.  In just a little time I found how false and deceiving their claims were.  The thing that bothers me the most is they will just take part of a quote, or part of a story, and present it totally out of context.  A good example of that is how films like Loose Change quotes several people saying things like "bombs going off," or "a missle."  Most of the actual quotes were something like it sounded like bombs going off or the plane was like a missle.  Just smido referenced the man with no legs in the video.  That WAS a story, but it was clearly proven to be not accurate.  Oh well.
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Quote Originally Posted by reillym32:

tpjw44, there is no use in arguing with these guys, even if you have evidence or proof or anything like that, they will claim you are going to websites controlled by the government that don't want us to know the truth.  The only place these people like to get there information is from movies like loose change and websites which try and explain pictures as being total proof that the government was the ones who did 9/11.  Any kind of explanation that makes any sense is actually government controlled and thats what they want us to hear.  Guys like these have no actual life except to sit on the internet and look up conspiracies.  He has probably tried to make a conspiracy out of anything like Pearl Harbor and JFK.  They probably think that any natural disaster is a conspiracy to.  We don't really have earthquakes, its the government causing the earth to shake to kill people off so they can build new buildings where the damaged ones are or the Hurricanes aren't really there the government as big blowing machines up in the sky and caused katrina because they hate all the people in poverty there.


You're right and I didn't want to get sucked in but I did.  It annoys because there's a lot of people out there who don't take the time to research.  Those are the same people who can easily be influenced by what the conspiracy nuts are saying.  I admit when I first watched Loose Change I walked around for a couple days thinking there was a STRONG possibility there was a conspiracy.  I was very interested so I took the time to see what others were saying about those claims.  In just a little time I found how false and deceiving their claims were.  The thing that bothers me the most is they will just take part of a quote, or part of a story, and present it totally out of context.  A good example of that is how films like Loose Change quotes several people saying things like "bombs going off," or "a missle."  Most of the actual quotes were something like it sounded like bombs going off or the plane was like a missle.  Just smido referenced the man with no legs in the video.  That WAS a story, but it was clearly proven to be not accurate.  Oh well.
 
nikon
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 5:47 PM ET #332

there are many fake bin ladens. its difficult to know which is the real bin laden.  if you noticed. almost every year when its almost 9/11 the media would show some new vid about bin laden. claiming this and that.

loose change is half true and half false. but what matters is that it gives you the main point. the u.s was somehow somewhat involved with 9/11.

theres many logic evidence that doesnt go with the official story. heck what even made you people believe the official story?

heres some facts:

no fire has EVER made a building fall..especially at freefall speed. the twin towers and tower 7 are the first 3 buildings to EVER fall due to fire. how ironic huh?

a few weeks before 9/11 larry silverstein bought insurance on the towers...coincendence?

all tapes were confiscated right after the so call "plane" hit the pentagon. if a plane hit it. why not show the other vids...that would put an end to the conspiracy.

its sad to see how stupid some people are. they cannot accept the truth so they in denial.

if you want real news...look outside the U.S

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there are many fake bin ladens. its difficult to know which is the real bin laden.  if you noticed. almost every year when its almost 9/11 the media would show some new vid about bin laden. claiming this and that.

loose change is half true and half false. but what matters is that it gives you the main point. the u.s was somehow somewhat involved with 9/11.

theres many logic evidence that doesnt go with the official story. heck what even made you people believe the official story?

heres some facts:

no fire has EVER made a building fall..especially at freefall speed. the twin towers and tower 7 are the first 3 buildings to EVER fall due to fire. how ironic huh?

a few weeks before 9/11 larry silverstein bought insurance on the towers...coincendence?

all tapes were confiscated right after the so call "plane" hit the pentagon. if a plane hit it. why not show the other vids...that would put an end to the conspiracy.

its sad to see how stupid some people are. they cannot accept the truth so they in denial.

if you want real news...look outside the U.S

 
tpjw44
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 6:12 PM ET #333

loose change is half true and half false. but what matters is that it gives you the main point. the u.s was somehow somewhat involved with 9/11.

Yes the U.S. was involved.  We were attacked. 


no fire has EVER made a building fall..especially at freefall speed. the twin towers and tower 7 are the first 3 buildings to EVER fall due to fire. how ironic huh?


The buildings did not fall at free fall speed.  So you choose to ignore the airplanes impacting the building at speeds approx. 450-550 mph.  You also would like to ignore that they were carrying tons of jet fuel.  How many other buildings that have caught fire were impacted by huge planes traveling that fast loaded with fuel?  None?  So you are saying we have no precedent for this type of event?

a few weeks before 9/11 larry silverstein bought insurance on the towers...coincendence?

You don't think he has insurance on buildings previously attacked prior to 09/11???  "And of course this isn't profit for Silverstein. The money is being provided for him to rebuild the WTC complex, and it turns out that's quite expensive  $4.6 billion in insurance money, $6.3 billion in costs? Not such a great deal, then. What’s more, don’t imagine the insurance companies have handed over all of this money."  Next...

all tapes were confiscated right after the so call "plane" hit the pentagon. if a plane hit it. why not show the other vids...that would put an end to the conspiracy.

Conspiracy theorists may or may not be disappointed Tuesday when they see footage released from the Pentagon showing two angles of American Flight 77 hitting the western wall of the building on Sept. 11, 2001.

The Department of Justice released the videotape after a Freedom of Information Act request by Judicial Watch, a government watchdog. The request was made to quiet claims by some that pictures from that day never showed an airplane, only the "alleged" impact of the plane. Those claims spawned theories that the U.S. government faked the crash at the Pentagon.

"We fought hard to obtain this video because we felt that it was very important to complete the public record with respect to the terrorist attacks of September 11," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Finally, we hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories involving American Airlines Flight 77. As always, our prayers remain with all those who suffered as a result of those murderous attacks."

One of the tapes is from a security camera that was used to produce five still shots on that day. That video, which takes pictures in half-second increments, shows the nose cone of the plane clearly entering the picture, then a blur and then a fireball.

The other camera shot that hasn't been seen before shows more of the plane before the fireball.

Several other cameras throughout the years supposedly caught part of the attack on tape, but none of these leads have panned out.

Tom Bortner, a Pentagon attack survivor, said he thinks the speed of the plane is what prevented the attack from being captured on more surveillance cameras on the premises.

"I think it's conclusive that plane hit the Pentagon and I don't think the tape really adds or detracts from that," Bortner said.

American Airlines Flight 77 left Dulles Airport outside Washington, D.C., around 8:51 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001. On its way to Los Angeles, the plane was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. EDT; 184 people died in that attack.



What were you saying about accepting truth 





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loose change is half true and half false. but what matters is that it gives you the main point. the u.s was somehow somewhat involved with 9/11.

Yes the U.S. was involved.  We were attacked. 


no fire has EVER made a building fall..especially at freefall speed. the twin towers and tower 7 are the first 3 buildings to EVER fall due to fire. how ironic huh?


The buildings did not fall at free fall speed.  So you choose to ignore the airplanes impacting the building at speeds approx. 450-550 mph.  You also would like to ignore that they were carrying tons of jet fuel.  How many other buildings that have caught fire were impacted by huge planes traveling that fast loaded with fuel?  None?  So you are saying we have no precedent for this type of event?

a few weeks before 9/11 larry silverstein bought insurance on the towers...coincendence?

You don't think he has insurance on buildings previously attacked prior to 09/11???  "And of course this isn't profit for Silverstein. The money is being provided for him to rebuild the WTC complex, and it turns out that's quite expensive  $4.6 billion in insurance money, $6.3 billion in costs? Not such a great deal, then. What’s more, don’t imagine the insurance companies have handed over all of this money."  Next...

all tapes were confiscated right after the so call "plane" hit the pentagon. if a plane hit it. why not show the other vids...that would put an end to the conspiracy.

Conspiracy theorists may or may not be disappointed Tuesday when they see footage released from the Pentagon showing two angles of American Flight 77 hitting the western wall of the building on Sept. 11, 2001.

The Department of Justice released the videotape after a Freedom of Information Act request by Judicial Watch, a government watchdog. The request was made to quiet claims by some that pictures from that day never showed an airplane, only the "alleged" impact of the plane. Those claims spawned theories that the U.S. government faked the crash at the Pentagon.

"We fought hard to obtain this video because we felt that it was very important to complete the public record with respect to the terrorist attacks of September 11," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Finally, we hope that this video will put to rest the conspiracy theories involving American Airlines Flight 77. As always, our prayers remain with all those who suffered as a result of those murderous attacks."

One of the tapes is from a security camera that was used to produce five still shots on that day. That video, which takes pictures in half-second increments, shows the nose cone of the plane clearly entering the picture, then a blur and then a fireball.

The other camera shot that hasn't been seen before shows more of the plane before the fireball.

Several other cameras throughout the years supposedly caught part of the attack on tape, but none of these leads have panned out.

Tom Bortner, a Pentagon attack survivor, said he thinks the speed of the plane is what prevented the attack from being captured on more surveillance cameras on the premises.

"I think it's conclusive that plane hit the Pentagon and I don't think the tape really adds or detracts from that," Bortner said.

American Airlines Flight 77 left Dulles Airport outside Washington, D.C., around 8:51 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001. On its way to Los Angeles, the plane was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. EDT; 184 people died in that attack.



What were you saying about accepting truth 





 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 7:20 PM ET #334

Nice one tpjw.  This is a betting site so lets bet on how long it takes for one of these nut jobs to say any of those tapes is just part of the government cover up.
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Nice one tpjw.  This is a betting site so lets bet on how long it takes for one of these nut jobs to say any of those tapes is just part of the government cover up.
 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 7:25 PM ET #335

Quote Originally Posted by nikon:

if you want real news...look outside the U.S



Where you getting your news from Nikon.  The last I checked Loose Change wasn't news and its not outside the U.S.  Lets go to Mexico, China, or maybe a middle eastern country, or how about even cuba, I'm sure there news is real and uncorrupted,  or lets just go to the greatest source of uncorrupted news, North Korea.
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Quote Originally Posted by nikon:

if you want real news...look outside the U.S



Where you getting your news from Nikon.  The last I checked Loose Change wasn't news and its not outside the U.S.  Lets go to Mexico, China, or maybe a middle eastern country, or how about even cuba, I'm sure there news is real and uncorrupted,  or lets just go to the greatest source of uncorrupted news, North Korea.
 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 7:30 PM ET #336

Quote Originally Posted by tpjw44:


Conspiracy theorists may or may not be disappointed Tuesday when they see footage released from the Pentagon showing two angles of American Flight 77 hitting the western wall of the building on Sept. 11, 2001.




This will be great.  This is one of the main arguments that these nutjobs try and use.  I'll love to hear what they say about it.

- The tape was doctored
- The tape was made by hollywood people on the governements payroll.
- It wasn't the real plane because you can't see the American Airlines logo through the massive fireball
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Quote Originally Posted by tpjw44:


Conspiracy theorists may or may not be disappointed Tuesday when they see footage released from the Pentagon showing two angles of American Flight 77 hitting the western wall of the building on Sept. 11, 2001.




This will be great.  This is one of the main arguments that these nutjobs try and use.  I'll love to hear what they say about it.

- The tape was doctored
- The tape was made by hollywood people on the governements payroll.
- It wasn't the real plane because you can't see the American Airlines logo through the massive fireball
 
johnyutah
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 8:01 PM ET #337

smidio this is what your looking for

 

https://www.overseaspropertymall.com/regions/middle-east-property/iraq-property/for-sale-in-erbil-kurdistan-iraq-homes-in-the-american-village-residential-development/

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smidio this is what your looking for

 

https://www.overseaspropertymall.com/regions/middle-east-property/iraq-property/for-sale-in-erbil-kurdistan-iraq-homes-in-the-american-village-residential-development/

 
BowmansAddict
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 8:25 PM ET #338

there is no conspiracy, the government would never lie..they always tell the truth...no way could they do this to their own people..bush is a very honorable man...bin laden is not presently in bush's bashment playing ps3..terrorists did this




terrorists belonging to the us government..i'm surprised hwo much support i'm seeing here on this side..yet a few years ago i made a similar post and got called by some of the covers lines people as if i was some sort of idiot
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there is no conspiracy, the government would never lie..they always tell the truth...no way could they do this to their own people..bush is a very honorable man...bin laden is not presently in bush's bashment playing ps3..terrorists did this




terrorists belonging to the us government..i'm surprised hwo much support i'm seeing here on this side..yet a few years ago i made a similar post and got called by some of the covers lines people as if i was some sort of idiot
 
CountNo_Account
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 8:38 PM ET #339

You are both the same sort of idiots...
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You are both the same sort of idiots...
 
CMJohnson1
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 9:38 PM ET #340

I read through 9 pages of B.S. and I can't go any farther...this is what I get out of it....

1.  You pointed out that there have been several other instances of planes hitting building, or buildings burning for a while and not collapsing...however, how many instances have there been where a 767 crashed into a building at the speed that it did on September 11th.  Also, how many of those instances did the plane have enough jet fuel to go from Boston to Los Angeles?  I understand that you want to throw out an idea and have it work towards your theory, however when there has only been ONE instance of something like this happening there is no way to tell what should or should not happen.

2.  As far as the plane landing in Cleveland instead of crashing, that is by far the  most far fetched and illogical thing I've heard about the 9/11 "conspiracy".  There is no possible way that the government could eliminate EVERY possible person from the plane, that was in the airport, that worked for the airport, and so on and so forth.  How about the employees and people staying in the hotels surrounding the airport?  Nobody noticed a crapload of government officials heading to the airport...or 44 flight and crew members walking away from a plane? 

There is no possible way that the government...or the Bilderburger Group...or anyone else could pull off a cover up this size.  Someone, somewhere, at some time would say something.  Especially with the advances of technology in the past couple years it just simply does not make sense. 


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I read through 9 pages of B.S. and I can't go any farther...this is what I get out of it....

1.  You pointed out that there have been several other instances of planes hitting building, or buildings burning for a while and not collapsing...however, how many instances have there been where a 767 crashed into a building at the speed that it did on September 11th.  Also, how many of those instances did the plane have enough jet fuel to go from Boston to Los Angeles?  I understand that you want to throw out an idea and have it work towards your theory, however when there has only been ONE instance of something like this happening there is no way to tell what should or should not happen.

2.  As far as the plane landing in Cleveland instead of crashing, that is by far the  most far fetched and illogical thing I've heard about the 9/11 "conspiracy".  There is no possible way that the government could eliminate EVERY possible person from the plane, that was in the airport, that worked for the airport, and so on and so forth.  How about the employees and people staying in the hotels surrounding the airport?  Nobody noticed a crapload of government officials heading to the airport...or 44 flight and crew members walking away from a plane? 

There is no possible way that the government...or the Bilderburger Group...or anyone else could pull off a cover up this size.  Someone, somewhere, at some time would say something.  Especially with the advances of technology in the past couple years it just simply does not make sense. 


 
Iw1nBets
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Posted: Oct. 24, 2010 - 11:58 PM ET #341

way better chance that government was involved then not involved. End of story
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way better chance that government was involved then not involved. End of story
 
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 8:55 AM ET #342

1.) The towers fell in free-fall speed. Freefall speed for the towers, from 1362 feet, is between 8.79 and 9.22 seconds. Every video of the towers collapsing that I've seen so far, including ones in this thread, have show the towers falling in roughly 9.5 seconds or less. Controlled demolition videos shown side by side with Tower 7's collapse are nearly identical.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

2.) The cell phone calls from Flight 93 were released to the public. 13 total calls cal from cell phones while the aircraft was over 20,000 feet, and some while the aircraft was over 30,000 feet. There were a number of "air phone" calls, I'm not addressing those. I want to address the cell phone calls.

It is a statistical impossibility for even 1 of these cell phone calls to have taken place, let alone 13. More than half of the cell phone calls took place for over 3 minutes each. There is a .001 chance for any of these calls to have lasted for more than 1 second.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

3.)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

This from wikipedia.  A detailed summary of Operation Northwoods.  You can read it for yourself, but it basically describes what the U.S. Government was capable of in 1962.  For all of you (and there has been many) that are saying stuff like "the governement would never do this" etc, how can you possibly explain Operation Northwoods to me?

a.) Operation Northwoods was meant to gather public support to attack Cuba, a recently aquinted communist nation under Fidel Castro.

Comparision:  9/11 was meant to gather public support to attack Iraw, a nation which was ruled by a "brutal dictator" and housed the majority of the worlds oil supply.

b.)  Operation Northwoods discussed the "hijacking" of commercial airliners and flying them into buildings in the Miami area of Florida.  These hijackings would however be of unmanned aircraft, and flown by drone planes into the targets. Civilian casualties would be at a minimum. The U.S. would essentially blame Cuba for the terrorist attacks, resulting in a creating of public support for invasion of Cuba.

Comparision:  9/11 flew commercial airliners into the WTC in New York, and claimed that the planes were "hijacked" by a middle eastern terrorist group called Al-Quadia. This led to a creation of public support for a war in Iraq, which the U.S. invaded less than 2 years later.

c.) This from the above link on wikipedia:

"It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight. "

"An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone."

"Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[16] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident"

Comparison: 9/11 created the public out cry for war after United Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, after a group of civilians attempted to overthrow the middle-eastern hijackers.  Amidst reports from the 9/11 commission that Flight 93 actually landed, the government later revealed that these reports, coming from actual NORAD generals, were completely false.  The NORAD generals were later removed from active duty.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

 

Address those 3 points, and I'll gladly shutup and never speak of 9/11 again.

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1.) The towers fell in free-fall speed. Freefall speed for the towers, from 1362 feet, is between 8.79 and 9.22 seconds. Every video of the towers collapsing that I've seen so far, including ones in this thread, have show the towers falling in roughly 9.5 seconds or less. Controlled demolition videos shown side by side with Tower 7's collapse are nearly identical.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

2.) The cell phone calls from Flight 93 were released to the public. 13 total calls cal from cell phones while the aircraft was over 20,000 feet, and some while the aircraft was over 30,000 feet. There were a number of "air phone" calls, I'm not addressing those. I want to address the cell phone calls.

It is a statistical impossibility for even 1 of these cell phone calls to have taken place, let alone 13. More than half of the cell phone calls took place for over 3 minutes each. There is a .001 chance for any of these calls to have lasted for more than 1 second.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

3.)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

This from wikipedia.  A detailed summary of Operation Northwoods.  You can read it for yourself, but it basically describes what the U.S. Government was capable of in 1962.  For all of you (and there has been many) that are saying stuff like "the governement would never do this" etc, how can you possibly explain Operation Northwoods to me?

a.) Operation Northwoods was meant to gather public support to attack Cuba, a recently aquinted communist nation under Fidel Castro.

Comparision:  9/11 was meant to gather public support to attack Iraw, a nation which was ruled by a "brutal dictator" and housed the majority of the worlds oil supply.

b.)  Operation Northwoods discussed the "hijacking" of commercial airliners and flying them into buildings in the Miami area of Florida.  These hijackings would however be of unmanned aircraft, and flown by drone planes into the targets. Civilian casualties would be at a minimum. The U.S. would essentially blame Cuba for the terrorist attacks, resulting in a creating of public support for invasion of Cuba.

Comparision:  9/11 flew commercial airliners into the WTC in New York, and claimed that the planes were "hijacked" by a middle eastern terrorist group called Al-Quadia. This led to a creation of public support for a war in Iraq, which the U.S. invaded less than 2 years later.

c.) This from the above link on wikipedia:

"It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight. "

"An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone."

"Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[16] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident"

Comparison: 9/11 created the public out cry for war after United Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, after a group of civilians attempted to overthrow the middle-eastern hijackers.  Amidst reports from the 9/11 commission that Flight 93 actually landed, the government later revealed that these reports, coming from actual NORAD generals, were completely false.  The NORAD generals were later removed from active duty.

No one has successfully refuted this claim so far. If you can, I'm willing to change my stance on the issue and accept your stance as truth, and stop reaching for conspriracy.

 

Address those 3 points, and I'll gladly shutup and never speak of 9/11 again.

 
RACETOWIN
RACETOWIN
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 9:18 AM ET #343

SADLY UTTER NONSENSE, I COULD REFUTE EACH AND EVERY POINT BUT IT WOULD BE FRUITLESS AS YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN LOGIC OR REALITY. THE FLIGHT 93 SINARIO IS INSANE, THEY CLOSED THE CLEVELAND AIRPORT AND SNUCK 200 PEOPLE OUT AND TOLD THEM TO "SHUT UP" OR ELSE? COMPLETLY NUTS, WHY NOT JUST HAVE THE PLANE LAND IN AREA X IN NEVADA AND USE THE ALIEN TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE FORM THE NUMEROUS UFO'S THAT HAVE LANDED AND MAKE THE PLANE DISAPPEAR? ALSO, WHAT DID THIS SUPPOSED ATTACK ACTUALLY GAIN?? THE ABILITY TO GET OIL FROM IRAQ? OIL FROM EVERY AREA OF THE MIDDLE EAST WAS STILL AVAILABLE AND THE OIL FROM IRAQ WAS BEING SOLD SECRETLY TO FRANCE AND RUSSAU, ALSO THE PUSH TO WAR WAS MORE ABOUT GETTING A ROUGE DICTATOR OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST CAULDRON WHERE HE COULD INFLAME THE SITUATION. IN FACT HUSSAIN KEPT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE BY NOT ALLOWING FREELY CONDUCTED INSPECTIONS WHICH HE HAD AGREED TO IN THE TREATY. IF HE WOULD HAVE SIMPLY ALLOWED COMPLETE ACCESS THE WAR COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO AS THEY SAY, BUT ENOUGH I COUYLD GO ON BUT INTRIGUE AND CONSPIRECY ARE MORE INTERESTING THAN LOGIC, THAT IS THE BASIC PROBLEM IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, OR MAYBE YOU JUST HAVE TOO MUCH TIME IN YOUR HANDS
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SADLY UTTER NONSENSE, I COULD REFUTE EACH AND EVERY POINT BUT IT WOULD BE FRUITLESS AS YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN LOGIC OR REALITY. THE FLIGHT 93 SINARIO IS INSANE, THEY CLOSED THE CLEVELAND AIRPORT AND SNUCK 200 PEOPLE OUT AND TOLD THEM TO "SHUT UP" OR ELSE? COMPLETLY NUTS, WHY NOT JUST HAVE THE PLANE LAND IN AREA X IN NEVADA AND USE THE ALIEN TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE FORM THE NUMEROUS UFO'S THAT HAVE LANDED AND MAKE THE PLANE DISAPPEAR? ALSO, WHAT DID THIS SUPPOSED ATTACK ACTUALLY GAIN?? THE ABILITY TO GET OIL FROM IRAQ? OIL FROM EVERY AREA OF THE MIDDLE EAST WAS STILL AVAILABLE AND THE OIL FROM IRAQ WAS BEING SOLD SECRETLY TO FRANCE AND RUSSAU, ALSO THE PUSH TO WAR WAS MORE ABOUT GETTING A ROUGE DICTATOR OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST CAULDRON WHERE HE COULD INFLAME THE SITUATION. IN FACT HUSSAIN KEPT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE BY NOT ALLOWING FREELY CONDUCTED INSPECTIONS WHICH HE HAD AGREED TO IN THE TREATY. IF HE WOULD HAVE SIMPLY ALLOWED COMPLETE ACCESS THE WAR COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO AS THEY SAY, BUT ENOUGH I COUYLD GO ON BUT INTRIGUE AND CONSPIRECY ARE MORE INTERESTING THAN LOGIC, THAT IS THE BASIC PROBLEM IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, OR MAYBE YOU JUST HAVE TOO MUCH TIME IN YOUR HANDS
 
smdio
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 9:32 AM ET #344

Great arguement there...

Not.

Seriously guys, bring something logical to try and convince me/us.  Enough of this "you are insane and don't listen and we are right & you are wrong" crap.

I highlighted 3 points above.  Please refute them and I'll officially change my stance.  Responses like the one directly above will just go ignored from now on, as it's simply his opinion and shows nothing factual.

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Great arguement there...

Not.

Seriously guys, bring something logical to try and convince me/us.  Enough of this "you are insane and don't listen and we are right & you are wrong" crap.

I highlighted 3 points above.  Please refute them and I'll officially change my stance.  Responses like the one directly above will just go ignored from now on, as it's simply his opinion and shows nothing factual.

 
reillym32
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 10:29 AM ET #345

https://www.911myths.com/index.html

Good website here.  Pretty much shoots down every 9/11 myth.  I'm pretty sure you conspiracy nut jobs will discount it and discredit it.
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https://www.911myths.com/index.html

Good website here.  Pretty much shoots down every 9/11 myth.  I'm pretty sure you conspiracy nut jobs will discount it and discredit it.
 
Dude_Abides
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 10:44 AM ET #346

Post #349...still think the guy who made post #25 made sense
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Post #349...still think the guy who made post #25 made sense
 
cacabware
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 10:53 AM ET #347

Quote Originally Posted by vanwilder21:

I love turtles.

 

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Quote Originally Posted by vanwilder21:

I love turtles.

 

 
routinewin
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 12:30 PM ET #348

The answer to your questions:

Who is benefits most from this war? Who is the oil pipelines of Iraq going to? Who controls the media? Who makes up most of Congress? Who pushes diversity on all predominantly white civilizations, yet do not allow for race-mixing in their country?

It was the Israelis and Zionist person.

When someone says something about person or zionists or Israeli, they get fired or completely stonewalled.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYBsDwjezQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YePhhbLJpGM
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The answer to your questions:

Who is benefits most from this war? Who is the oil pipelines of Iraq going to? Who controls the media? Who makes up most of Congress? Who pushes diversity on all predominantly white civilizations, yet do not allow for race-mixing in their country?

It was the Israelis and Zionist person.

When someone says something about person or zionists or Israeli, they get fired or completely stonewalled.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYBsDwjezQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YePhhbLJpGM
 
routinewin
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 12:42 PM ET #349

I would not usually advise this, but go to your television see who is on there.

Scarlett Johannson, Natalie Portman, Mark Wahlberg, Bob Dylan (I love Dylan by the way), Matt Lauer, Larry King, Robert DeNiro, Wolf Blitzer, Zac Efron, what do they all have in common?

1 percent of the world is jewish yet 60 to 70 percent of people on television are jewish? Almost 90 percent of all media is headed by a zionist person. Ask why do they change their last names?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_actors
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I would not usually advise this, but go to your television see who is on there.

Scarlett Johannson, Natalie Portman, Mark Wahlberg, Bob Dylan (I love Dylan by the way), Matt Lauer, Larry King, Robert DeNiro, Wolf Blitzer, Zac Efron, what do they all have in common?

1 percent of the world is jewish yet 60 to 70 percent of people on television are jewish? Almost 90 percent of all media is headed by a zionist person. Ask why do they change their last names?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_actors
 
 
routinewin
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Posted: Oct. 25, 2010 - 12:46 PM ET #350

For those who believe that the government would not do this to its own people, go read the Talmud and see what is the view toward us gentiles (non-person).

Go.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The Hebrew Bible regulates interest taking. Interest can't be charged to person but only to non-person.

Deuteronomy 23:20 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:21 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.[11]



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For those who believe that the government would not do this to its own people, go read the Talmud and see what is the view toward us gentiles (non-person).

Go.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The Hebrew Bible regulates interest taking. Interest can't be charged to person but only to non-person.

Deuteronomy 23:20 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:21 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.[11]



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