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    All Forums | General Discussion

    Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity

    «First Previous 565758 ... 848586 Next Last»
    Rostos
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    Rostos
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:01 PM ET #1376

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:

    Here is a pretty good refutation to Hoyle's fallacy.
    https://www.ebonmusings.org/evolution/tornado.html

    Too bad Hoyle is not alive to see he's been debunked.

    We turn now to the tornado in the junkyard. This analogy says nothing about the validity of evolution, or for that matter abiogenesis, because it fails to represent them in four crucial ways.

    1. It operates purely according to random chance.
    2. It is an example of single-step, rather than cumulative, selection.
    3. It is a saltationary jump - an end product entirely unlike the beginning product.
    4. It has a target specified ahead of time.

    The first point is the most important. The tornado in the junkyard is an example of an intricate, complex and highly organized form being produced by nothing more than random chance. But evolution is not chance. (See this article for more on this.) Rather, it operates according to a fixed law - the law of natural selection - which favors some assemblages over others; it preferentially selects for those adaptations which improve fitness and selects against those that do not. The tornado, by contrast, slams parts together and tears them apart with no preference whatsoever, thus completely failing to represent natural selection, the central force which drives evolution. To more accurately represent evolution, one would have to grant the tornado some power to recognize assemblages of parts which could serve as part of a 747 and prevent it from tearing them apart.

    Second, the tornado analogy is an example of single-step selection - in one step, it goes from a random pile of parts to a fully assembled airliner. This is completely unlike evolution, which operates according to a process of cumulative selection - complex results that are built up gradually, in a repetitive process guided at each step by selective forces. To more accurately represent evolution, the tornado could be sent through the junkyard not once, but thousands or millions of times, at each step preserving chance assemblages of parts that could make up a jumbo jet.

    Third, in relation to the point above, the tornado in the junkyard is an example of saltation - a sudden leap in which the end product is completely different from the beginning product. Evolution does not work this way; birds do not hatch out of dinosaur eggs and monkeys do not give birth to humans. Rather, species grow different over time through a process of slow change in which each new creature is only slightly different from its ancestor. Evolution forms a gradually shading continuum in which any two steps are almost identical, though the creatures at the beginning and end of the continuum may be very different indeed. If we sent a tornado through a junkyard once, we would not expect to see a complete airplane; but if we repeated the process thousands or millions of times, at each step preserving useful assemblages, we might see a jumbo jet gradually taking shape out of slowly accreting collections of parts. The idea is the same with living things. We do not see complex new creatures appearing suddenly in the fossil record; rather, we see them gradually forming by a process of modification from a line of increasingly dissimilar ancestors.

    Finally, the tornado analogy fails to represent evolution in one more significant way: it has a target specified ahead of time. Evolution does not. Natural selection is not a forward-looking process; it cannot select for what may become useful in the future, only what is immediately useful in the present. To more accurately represent evolution, we might add the additional stipulation that the tornado be allowed to assemble, not just a jumbo jet, but any functional piece of machinery.

    A tornado racing through a junkyard hundreds of thousands of times, at each step somehow preserving rather than tearing apart functional assemblages of parts, with the aim of ultimately producing some sort of working machine, be it a 747, a station wagon or a personal computer - this is still not a very good analogy to describe evolution, but it is far better than the implausible caricature of random, single-step saltation with a predetermined target the creationists put forth. This analogy completely fails to represent evolution in every significant way.


    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:

    Here is a pretty good refutation to Hoyle's fallacy.
    https://www.ebonmusings.org/evolution/tornado.html

    Too bad Hoyle is not alive to see he's been debunked.

    We turn now to the tornado in the junkyard. This analogy says nothing about the validity of evolution, or for that matter abiogenesis, because it fails to represent them in four crucial ways.

    1. It operates purely according to random chance.
    2. It is an example of single-step, rather than cumulative, selection.
    3. It is a saltationary jump - an end product entirely unlike the beginning product.
    4. It has a target specified ahead of time.

    The first point is the most important. The tornado in the junkyard is an example of an intricate, complex and highly organized form being produced by nothing more than random chance. But evolution is not chance. (See this article for more on this.) Rather, it operates according to a fixed law - the law of natural selection - which favors some assemblages over others; it preferentially selects for those adaptations which improve fitness and selects against those that do not. The tornado, by contrast, slams parts together and tears them apart with no preference whatsoever, thus completely failing to represent natural selection, the central force which drives evolution. To more accurately represent evolution, one would have to grant the tornado some power to recognize assemblages of parts which could serve as part of a 747 and prevent it from tearing them apart.

    Second, the tornado analogy is an example of single-step selection - in one step, it goes from a random pile of parts to a fully assembled airliner. This is completely unlike evolution, which operates according to a process of cumulative selection - complex results that are built up gradually, in a repetitive process guided at each step by selective forces. To more accurately represent evolution, the tornado could be sent through the junkyard not once, but thousands or millions of times, at each step preserving chance assemblages of parts that could make up a jumbo jet.

    Third, in relation to the point above, the tornado in the junkyard is an example of saltation - a sudden leap in which the end product is completely different from the beginning product. Evolution does not work this way; birds do not hatch out of dinosaur eggs and monkeys do not give birth to humans. Rather, species grow different over time through a process of slow change in which each new creature is only slightly different from its ancestor. Evolution forms a gradually shading continuum in which any two steps are almost identical, though the creatures at the beginning and end of the continuum may be very different indeed. If we sent a tornado through a junkyard once, we would not expect to see a complete airplane; but if we repeated the process thousands or millions of times, at each step preserving useful assemblages, we might see a jumbo jet gradually taking shape out of slowly accreting collections of parts. The idea is the same with living things. We do not see complex new creatures appearing suddenly in the fossil record; rather, we see them gradually forming by a process of modification from a line of increasingly dissimilar ancestors.

    Finally, the tornado analogy fails to represent evolution in one more significant way: it has a target specified ahead of time. Evolution does not. Natural selection is not a forward-looking process; it cannot select for what may become useful in the future, only what is immediately useful in the present. To more accurately represent evolution, we might add the additional stipulation that the tornado be allowed to assemble, not just a jumbo jet, but any functional piece of machinery.

    A tornado racing through a junkyard hundreds of thousands of times, at each step somehow preserving rather than tearing apart functional assemblages of parts, with the aim of ultimately producing some sort of working machine, be it a 747, a station wagon or a personal computer - this is still not a very good analogy to describe evolution, but it is far better than the implausible caricature of random, single-step saltation with a predetermined target the creationists put forth. This analogy completely fails to represent evolution in every significant way.


    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night

     
    MRGETRICH
    MRGETRICH
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:01 PM ET #1377

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    If there are 1000 words in that, it is 990 too much for Rostos to read or understand.

    "TOO MANY WORDS, CANNOT READ, MUST MAKE SIMPLE SENTENCE TO EXPLAIN.  THE ODDS OF HOYLE BEING WRONG ARE THE SAME AS THROWING A BUNCH OF WATCH PARTS IN THE AIR, AND HAVING THEM COME DOWN AS A ROLEX"



    It wasn't for him, he's already decided there is nothing that could ever change his mind. However there maybe people that actually believe Hoyle's crap and that's why i posted it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    If there are 1000 words in that, it is 990 too much for Rostos to read or understand.

    "TOO MANY WORDS, CANNOT READ, MUST MAKE SIMPLE SENTENCE TO EXPLAIN.  THE ODDS OF HOYLE BEING WRONG ARE THE SAME AS THROWING A BUNCH OF WATCH PARTS IN THE AIR, AND HAVING THEM COME DOWN AS A ROLEX"



    It wasn't for him, he's already decided there is nothing that could ever change his mind. However there maybe people that actually believe Hoyle's crap and that's why i posted it.
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:02 PM ET #1378

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Everyone i have made discovery.

    Major announcement.

    Vaznack has NEVER EVER made an honest mistake, NEVER not once in his life.

    vaznack has never made an honest mistake.

     

    Well, if I have, please tell me when.

    I can tell you at least one time that you lied, and you cant do the same for me.

    So until you do - I would say that your post above is 100% correct.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Everyone i have made discovery.

    Major announcement.

    Vaznack has NEVER EVER made an honest mistake, NEVER not once in his life.

    vaznack has never made an honest mistake.

     

    Well, if I have, please tell me when.

    I can tell you at least one time that you lied, and you cant do the same for me.

    So until you do - I would say that your post above is 100% correct.

     
    MRGETRICH
    MRGETRICH
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:02 PM ET #1379

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night



    I told you earlier in the thread I don't think something came from nothing, with regards to the universe. Why are you intentionally misrepresenting my position?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night



    I told you earlier in the thread I don't think something came from nothing, with regards to the universe. Why are you intentionally misrepresenting my position?
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:04 PM ET #1380

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night

    What did I tell you?

    He probably didnt even read it, and then totally misinterprets the meaning, and comes up with a hokey mantra that he can keep repeating.

    Something cant come from nothing
    We all have faith
    50,000 rolls of the dice
    747 coming together
    Leading Harvard professor

    Repeat repeat repeat.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing if that makes u sleep better at night

    What did I tell you?

    He probably didnt even read it, and then totally misinterprets the meaning, and comes up with a hokey mantra that he can keep repeating.

    Something cant come from nothing
    We all have faith
    50,000 rolls of the dice
    747 coming together
    Leading Harvard professor

    Repeat repeat repeat.

     

     
    MRGETRICH
    MRGETRICH
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:06 PM ET #1381

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........




    Since he misrepresented  evolution, his whole analogy is inaccurate and incorrect. It's a strawman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    His example was an analogy to get u to understand the gravity of the odds..........




    Since he misrepresented  evolution, his whole analogy is inaccurate and incorrect. It's a strawman.
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:06 PM ET #1382

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:



    I told you earlier in the thread I don't think something came from nothing, with regards to the universe. Why are you intentionally misrepresenting my position?

    Earlier in the thread, he asked about absolute morality.  3 of us answered NO, but he wouldnt accept our answer - and continued to misrepresent out positions too.

    He is dishonest.  And Jesus hates him.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:



    I told you earlier in the thread I don't think something came from nothing, with regards to the universe. Why are you intentionally misrepresenting my position?

    Earlier in the thread, he asked about absolute morality.  3 of us answered NO, but he wouldnt accept our answer - and continued to misrepresent out positions too.

    He is dishonest.  And Jesus hates him.

     
    MRGETRICH
    MRGETRICH
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:07 PM ET #1383

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    What did I tell you?

    He probably didnt even read it, and then totally misinterprets the meaning, and comes up with a hokey mantra that he can keep repeating.

    Something cant come from nothing
    We all have faith
    50,000 rolls of the dice
    747 coming together
    Leading Harvard professor

    Repeat repeat repeat.

     




    You win
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    What did I tell you?

    He probably didnt even read it, and then totally misinterprets the meaning, and comes up with a hokey mantra that he can keep repeating.

    Something cant come from nothing
    We all have faith
    50,000 rolls of the dice
    747 coming together
    Leading Harvard professor

    Repeat repeat repeat.

     




    You win
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:08 PM ET #1384

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Well, if I have, please tell me when.

    I can tell you at least one time that you lied, and you cant do the same for me.

    So until you do - I would say that your post above is 100% correct.

    How on earth was that a lie?

    the calculations are correct, the only misrepresentation was that i said it came from a harvard professor opposed to representing the Cambridge institute of Astronomy.

    Either way, even if he came from the local pub, the calculations are still correct.

    Get over it,.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Well, if I have, please tell me when.

    I can tell you at least one time that you lied, and you cant do the same for me.

    So until you do - I would say that your post above is 100% correct.

    How on earth was that a lie?

    the calculations are correct, the only misrepresentation was that i said it came from a harvard professor opposed to representing the Cambridge institute of Astronomy.

    Either way, even if he came from the local pub, the calculations are still correct.

    Get over it,.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:13 PM ET #1385

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright
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    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:16 PM ET #1386

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright

    And there it is!

    Now tell us how we all have faith!

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright

    And there it is!

    Now tell us how we all have faith!

     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:17 PM ET #1387

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:



    Since he misrepresented  evolution, his whole analogy is inaccurate and incorrect. It's a strawman.

    Even if we accept the gravity of the odds, he's still been proven wrong by simple math. The likelihood of something occurring that's odds are 1 in 50,000 pages worth of 0's is unlikely in one attempt. However, there are currently and have been in the past over 50,000 pages worth of 0s of planets. So given that scope, the odds of 1 of them being perfect for life is almost 100%. He can't grasp this concept.

    At this point he reverts to saying "keep thinking something can come from nothing." (just like god...who apparently came from nothing lol)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:



    Since he misrepresented  evolution, his whole analogy is inaccurate and incorrect. It's a strawman.

    Even if we accept the gravity of the odds, he's still been proven wrong by simple math. The likelihood of something occurring that's odds are 1 in 50,000 pages worth of 0's is unlikely in one attempt. However, there are currently and have been in the past over 50,000 pages worth of 0s of planets. So given that scope, the odds of 1 of them being perfect for life is almost 100%. He can't grasp this concept.

    At this point he reverts to saying "keep thinking something can come from nothing." (just like god...who apparently came from nothing lol)
     
    KittyKatz286
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:18 PM ET #1388

    And it's even funnier that as I was typing the last post, he did it again lol
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    And it's even funnier that as I was typing the last post, he did it again lol
     
    MRGETRICH
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:24 PM ET #1389

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright
    \


    You do understand that if we believed in some creative force that still does not mean that it was the one that came to earth pretending to be a human being. You know the one that set up the the first two humans to fail, just so he could come to earth and commit suicide by cop?

    You'd still have to connect the"creator" to Jesus/God/Holy spirit. You know that man made trinity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright
    \


    You do understand that if we believed in some creative force that still does not mean that it was the one that came to earth pretending to be a human being. You know the one that set up the the first two humans to fail, just so he could come to earth and commit suicide by cop?

    You'd still have to connect the"creator" to Jesus/God/Holy spirit. You know that man made trinity.


     
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 30, 2011 - 11:34 PM ET #1390

    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:

    \


    You do understand


    You can stop right there, and the answer is always "NO".

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGETRICH:

    \


    You do understand


    You can stop right there, and the answer is always "NO".

     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 12:16 AM ET #1391

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    I go out for an entire day and I miss all this!!!! Ok here goes.

    1. Evolution cannot be debated. It exists. Man comes from ape. Ape comes from something before it (I'm not a scientist). This is fact. A theory is not a hypothesis. Darwin had a hypothesis of evolution. Then he tested his hypothesis over and over and over and over again. He got the same results. Therefore, it became a theory (which is different). A theory is not up for debate. I will not address evolution any further because it is 100% fact.

    You are wrong when you said, "Evolution cannot be debated. It exists...etc.etc.etc........

    Well of course it can be debated. Not everyone believes in the theory of evolution and so it can be debated just as much as the debate on whether God exist or doesn't exist can be debated by opposing sides...the believers & non-belivers.

    For there are believers in the theory of evolution and there are also non-believers in the theory of evolution and once again let me inform you that a theory is not a fact!

    mrgetrich is trying to debate me on this subject of evolution, if you go to pg. 54 post #1333 he says,

    "You do realize that you are an ape like creature. I'll ask again since none of you dare to answer. Name ONE ANATOMICAL FEATURE THAT YOU HAVE THAT AN APE DOES NOT HAVE.All you have to do is name one. You can't because is no difference at all.Please show me the paper where "evolutionists" believe we (humans) came directly from oceans. This is a lie and you know, now you are just making things up."

    The definition of debatable is defined as: that can be questioned or disputed; questionable.

    Let me show you some simple illustrations below to illustrate what is debatable and not debatable, to make you realize your mistake.

    1. The sun is hot...not debatable, because it is a fact.

    2. Everyone will die someday...not debatable, because it is a fact.

    3. God exists...debatable, because not everyone believes in His existence.

    4. We evolve from ape-like animal creatures...debatable, because not everyone believes we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.

    So now kitty, would you acknowledge to me that you were wrong in stating, "Evolution cannot be debated."


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    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    I go out for an entire day and I miss all this!!!! Ok here goes.

    1. Evolution cannot be debated. It exists. Man comes from ape. Ape comes from something before it (I'm not a scientist). This is fact. A theory is not a hypothesis. Darwin had a hypothesis of evolution. Then he tested his hypothesis over and over and over and over again. He got the same results. Therefore, it became a theory (which is different). A theory is not up for debate. I will not address evolution any further because it is 100% fact.

    You are wrong when you said, "Evolution cannot be debated. It exists...etc.etc.etc........

    Well of course it can be debated. Not everyone believes in the theory of evolution and so it can be debated just as much as the debate on whether God exist or doesn't exist can be debated by opposing sides...the believers & non-belivers.

    For there are believers in the theory of evolution and there are also non-believers in the theory of evolution and once again let me inform you that a theory is not a fact!

    mrgetrich is trying to debate me on this subject of evolution, if you go to pg. 54 post #1333 he says,

    "You do realize that you are an ape like creature. I'll ask again since none of you dare to answer. Name ONE ANATOMICAL FEATURE THAT YOU HAVE THAT AN APE DOES NOT HAVE.All you have to do is name one. You can't because is no difference at all.Please show me the paper where "evolutionists" believe we (humans) came directly from oceans. This is a lie and you know, now you are just making things up."

    The definition of debatable is defined as: that can be questioned or disputed; questionable.

    Let me show you some simple illustrations below to illustrate what is debatable and not debatable, to make you realize your mistake.

    1. The sun is hot...not debatable, because it is a fact.

    2. Everyone will die someday...not debatable, because it is a fact.

    3. God exists...debatable, because not everyone believes in His existence.

    4. We evolve from ape-like animal creatures...debatable, because not everyone believes we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.

    So now kitty, would you acknowledge to me that you were wrong in stating, "Evolution cannot be debated."


     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 12:25 AM ET #1392

    No because it is a fact that we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.
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    No because it is a fact that we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 12:42 AM ET #1393

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    No because it is a fact that we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.

    No wonder you believe your life is meaningless

    You believe you're an ape-like animal creature!...lol

    Well, you know like they say to each their own.

    The godly will rejoice in the Lord and find shelter in him. And those who do what is right will praise him. ---Psalm 64:10

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

    No because it is a fact that we evolved from ape-like animal creatures.

    No wonder you believe your life is meaningless

    You believe you're an ape-like animal creature!...lol

    Well, you know like they say to each their own.

    The godly will rejoice in the Lord and find shelter in him. And those who do what is right will praise him. ---Psalm 64:10

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

     

     

     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 12:44 AM ET #1394

    Because I am an ape-like animal creature. You don't have to believe in evolution to know with 100% certainty humans are ape-like. I believe you have already been asked to point out one anatomical difference between humans and apes.
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    Because I am an ape-like animal creature. You don't have to believe in evolution to know with 100% certainty humans are ape-like. I believe you have already been asked to point out one anatomical difference between humans and apes.
     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 1:28 AM ET #1395

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I ASSUME you love your parents for creating you but you dont love God for creating everything known?  


    I don't love my parents for creating me, I love them because they love me and they have cared for me and nurtured me.  "god" has done nothing for me, because as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing. 

    You are free to do whatever you like. Free as a bird, no one is forcing you to do anything. Love whoever you want and hate whoever you want.

    I see you have nothing to say about the bullying. I guess you agree. Your right though, no one is forcing me, but if you believe in religion you are being bullied into believing.

    Why do I have to hate 

    At the end of the day, God will judge everyone rightly. He knows what is in everyones hearts, whatever everyone knows deep inside. He knows if you really believe in him deep inside but reject him cause you want to sin.

    I am not saying that is you, just a general comment to everyone.

    Thats all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I ASSUME you love your parents for creating you but you dont love God for creating everything known?  


    I don't love my parents for creating me, I love them because they love me and they have cared for me and nurtured me.  "god" has done nothing for me, because as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing. 

    You are free to do whatever you like. Free as a bird, no one is forcing you to do anything. Love whoever you want and hate whoever you want.

    I see you have nothing to say about the bullying. I guess you agree. Your right though, no one is forcing me, but if you believe in religion you are being bullied into believing.

    Why do I have to hate 

    At the end of the day, God will judge everyone rightly. He knows what is in everyones hearts, whatever everyone knows deep inside. He knows if you really believe in him deep inside but reject him cause you want to sin.

    I am not saying that is you, just a general comment to everyone.

    Thats all.

     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 1:31 AM ET #1396

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright

    even if something (call it god) created everything, how does that prove the god of the bible?????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just keep believing something can come from nothing and everything will be alright

    even if something (call it god) created everything, how does that prove the god of the bible?????????

     
    40Down
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 1:34 AM ET #1397

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    The Book of Job

    The author is uncertain; Jewish tradition regards Moses as the author; others have suggested Job himself as the author, date written uncertain, though some events recorded and vocabulary used suggest it was written during the time of the patriarchs, between 2000 and 1800 B.C.

    The problem of human suffering is pondered by most everyone at some time or another. The book of Job addresses this ancient and difficult problem. It tells the story of Job, a godly man who endured enormous amount of suffering while remaining faithful to God. The story begins with Job losing his children, his many possessions, and even his own health---all within a very short period of time. Only Job's wife escaped the ruin that satan inflicted upon him. Then Job's three friends came to comfort him and to reflect on the purpose of his suffering. They each considered the basic question: Why must we endure suffering when God is powerful enough to do something about it? Job's wife simply declared it all unfair, advising Job, "Curse God and die" (2:9). Each of Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, delivered speeches accounting for Job's misery. A young man, Elihu, tried to summarize the situation with yet another explanation. But all of them failed to provide Job with a satisfactory answer. Finally, God himself spoke directly to Job, asking him a long list of questions that forced him to recognize his finite understanding of life. Job realized that ultimately God is in charge and knows what he is doing. So Job remained silent and stood in awe of God's sovereignty. In the end, God restored Job's health, possessions, and family.

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

    Many things are uncertain. You follow a scripture you believe represents the word of God by an author who is unknown, yet you redicule poeple who are following scientific evidence that exists. Don't you find it odd how few people change religions. Most folks just follow the same religion that there folks did. How did that work for Jim Jones children? Every religion swears to be right and feels a duty to point contrarians as being wrong. How can you be so sure? Most are simply sheep following the rest of the herd.  Religion is also often reinforced with fear of punishment or shame. Ironically like most uneducated people parent their children. Just throw out "because I said so". Religion has always been about control and money, and it always will.  Everybody has the freedom to have their own opinions.  Just make sure they actually are your opinions.  Be right or be wrong. Just don't blindly follow anything you haven't researched wihout undo influence.   

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    The Book of Job

    The author is uncertain; Jewish tradition regards Moses as the author; others have suggested Job himself as the author, date written uncertain, though some events recorded and vocabulary used suggest it was written during the time of the patriarchs, between 2000 and 1800 B.C.

    The problem of human suffering is pondered by most everyone at some time or another. The book of Job addresses this ancient and difficult problem. It tells the story of Job, a godly man who endured enormous amount of suffering while remaining faithful to God. The story begins with Job losing his children, his many possessions, and even his own health---all within a very short period of time. Only Job's wife escaped the ruin that satan inflicted upon him. Then Job's three friends came to comfort him and to reflect on the purpose of his suffering. They each considered the basic question: Why must we endure suffering when God is powerful enough to do something about it? Job's wife simply declared it all unfair, advising Job, "Curse God and die" (2:9). Each of Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, delivered speeches accounting for Job's misery. A young man, Elihu, tried to summarize the situation with yet another explanation. But all of them failed to provide Job with a satisfactory answer. Finally, God himself spoke directly to Job, asking him a long list of questions that forced him to recognize his finite understanding of life. Job realized that ultimately God is in charge and knows what he is doing. So Job remained silent and stood in awe of God's sovereignty. In the end, God restored Job's health, possessions, and family.

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

    Many things are uncertain. You follow a scripture you believe represents the word of God by an author who is unknown, yet you redicule poeple who are following scientific evidence that exists. Don't you find it odd how few people change religions. Most folks just follow the same religion that there folks did. How did that work for Jim Jones children? Every religion swears to be right and feels a duty to point contrarians as being wrong. How can you be so sure? Most are simply sheep following the rest of the herd.  Religion is also often reinforced with fear of punishment or shame. Ironically like most uneducated people parent their children. Just throw out "because I said so". Religion has always been about control and money, and it always will.  Everybody has the freedom to have their own opinions.  Just make sure they actually are your opinions.  Be right or be wrong. Just don't blindly follow anything you haven't researched wihout undo influence.   

     
    smartapple123
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 4:34 AM ET #1398

    I dont believe something can come from nothing which is why I believe in God.

    Now, If you can come to terms with the fact that God is real, you shouldnt be asking yourself where did God come from?

    The simple fact that there is a God superceeds mostly all human thinking. 

    If we have a God here on Earth, it is deffinately a possibility that other planets have other Gods, because although we have the Bible to give us Gods Word, nowhere does God say directly that he is the only one.

    The question you must ask yourself is...is god perfect?

    God himself might be, but his creation is not.

    There is MUCH room for improvement in his creation.

    Maybe other Gods on other planets have created a more perfect society. 

    These questions are still unanswered, because we have not traveled to other planets outside our solar system

     

     

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    I dont believe something can come from nothing which is why I believe in God.

    Now, If you can come to terms with the fact that God is real, you shouldnt be asking yourself where did God come from?

    The simple fact that there is a God superceeds mostly all human thinking. 

    If we have a God here on Earth, it is deffinately a possibility that other planets have other Gods, because although we have the Bible to give us Gods Word, nowhere does God say directly that he is the only one.

    The question you must ask yourself is...is god perfect?

    God himself might be, but his creation is not.

    There is MUCH room for improvement in his creation.

    Maybe other Gods on other planets have created a more perfect society. 

    These questions are still unanswered, because we have not traveled to other planets outside our solar system

     

     

     
    aerial
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 4:43 AM ET #1399

    KittyKatz, was asking for a more descriptive analysis in that have humans evolved from say, primative bipedal hominids. Where by, what would the name of the 1st bipedal hominid genus that would have appeared in the fossil records that are the ancestor of todays modern man. The latter was the kind of explanation I was chasing. The reason I wasn't interested with your opinion; "it is likely in a thousand years," is evolution results in the random appearance and disappearance of species. The rules of evolution are so susceptible to chaos theory that it is not possible to predict what species will appear or become extinct. We learned the human embryo re-traces the history of evolution, right. It was discovered that the embryo develops slits in the neck like fish gills, it has a tail, and so on. Any creationist was faced with an embryo that contained a yolk sac, gill slits and a tail. Medical evolutionists believed these structures to be present, only as useless left overs or "vestiges," of evolutionary ancestry. In definition, remainders of the times when our ancestors were fish and reptiles. The concept of vestigal organs even resulted in cases of evolutionary medical ignorant practice. Children once had their healthy and helpful, disease fighting tonsils removed because of wide spread belief that they were only useless vestiges. The idea slowed down scientific research for many years. What was considered to be non-vital organs that were not critical and perceived evolutionary left overs was not obserbed with further research. A sector of scientists who didnt take that view continued with observation of organs that discovered the mystery of their unknown use. The initial theory on the embryo was fraudulently presented when it was coined "biogenetic law," if you want to research it, which is not taken seriously by embryologists. Its no different than the tail bone being once said it was to remind us that our ancestors had a tail. Today, we know it as an important point of muscle attachment required for our distinctive upright posture and also for defecation. It is important for development and the end of the spine sticks out noticeably in a one month embryo, buts that because the muscle and limbs dont develop until stimulated by the spine. As they develop, they surround and envelop the tailbone, and it winds up inside the body. The process really is impressive. There was also a case that stated that the yolk sac could be removed from the human embryo and still develop, but we know just what critical role it plays today. There are alot of urban myths around, and science has learned if it can not identify the use, the discovery of an organs mystery role could come to be known. It is not scientific to suggest that something "likely" will disappear. So, if you can, just what I expressed at the posts begining, specifics that make the evolution of modern humans from apes, convince you with confidence to declare it 100% fact when paleoanthropologists do not fully agree on the details of human emergence. And one additional question, do you feel that human life is worth more than the life of other mammals? And MRGETRICH, will aknowledge that I noticed the evolution you-tube video links you provided for myself. Have not viewed them, but will do so.
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    KittyKatz, was asking for a more descriptive analysis in that have humans evolved from say, primative bipedal hominids. Where by, what would the name of the 1st bipedal hominid genus that would have appeared in the fossil records that are the ancestor of todays modern man. The latter was the kind of explanation I was chasing. The reason I wasn't interested with your opinion; "it is likely in a thousand years," is evolution results in the random appearance and disappearance of species. The rules of evolution are so susceptible to chaos theory that it is not possible to predict what species will appear or become extinct. We learned the human embryo re-traces the history of evolution, right. It was discovered that the embryo develops slits in the neck like fish gills, it has a tail, and so on. Any creationist was faced with an embryo that contained a yolk sac, gill slits and a tail. Medical evolutionists believed these structures to be present, only as useless left overs or "vestiges," of evolutionary ancestry. In definition, remainders of the times when our ancestors were fish and reptiles. The concept of vestigal organs even resulted in cases of evolutionary medical ignorant practice. Children once had their healthy and helpful, disease fighting tonsils removed because of wide spread belief that they were only useless vestiges. The idea slowed down scientific research for many years. What was considered to be non-vital organs that were not critical and perceived evolutionary left overs was not obserbed with further research. A sector of scientists who didnt take that view continued with observation of organs that discovered the mystery of their unknown use. The initial theory on the embryo was fraudulently presented when it was coined "biogenetic law," if you want to research it, which is not taken seriously by embryologists. Its no different than the tail bone being once said it was to remind us that our ancestors had a tail. Today, we know it as an important point of muscle attachment required for our distinctive upright posture and also for defecation. It is important for development and the end of the spine sticks out noticeably in a one month embryo, buts that because the muscle and limbs dont develop until stimulated by the spine. As they develop, they surround and envelop the tailbone, and it winds up inside the body. The process really is impressive. There was also a case that stated that the yolk sac could be removed from the human embryo and still develop, but we know just what critical role it plays today. There are alot of urban myths around, and science has learned if it can not identify the use, the discovery of an organs mystery role could come to be known. It is not scientific to suggest that something "likely" will disappear. So, if you can, just what I expressed at the posts begining, specifics that make the evolution of modern humans from apes, convince you with confidence to declare it 100% fact when paleoanthropologists do not fully agree on the details of human emergence. And one additional question, do you feel that human life is worth more than the life of other mammals? And MRGETRICH, will aknowledge that I noticed the evolution you-tube video links you provided for myself. Have not viewed them, but will do so.
     
     
    vanzack
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    Posted: May. 31, 2011 - 9:53 AM ET #1400

    The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence.
     
    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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    The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence.
     
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