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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    I seriously think I'm on to something here...

    «First Previous 567 ... 678 Next Last»
    PuckHog
    Adal1205
    JB13372
    SteelCash
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    PuckHog
    PuckHog
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    Posted: Jan. 22, 2009 - 4:06 PM ET #101

    Hi Steel,
         I'm still working my way to the next level(488.00)
    Hit a 61.00 payoff on a 3 team parlay,but so far lost the rest of the week.Now at 412.34 was as high as 437.34.Keeping my nose to the grindstone trying to pick winners and still sticking to my unit size,no exceptions to the rule.When I decide to change if I feel the play is weeker I just bet a little less.
        Do u like anything in BBALL tonight  i was thinking over in Magic/Celtics.....what do u think?
     
    BOL 
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    Hi Steel,
         I'm still working my way to the next level(488.00)
    Hit a 61.00 payoff on a 3 team parlay,but so far lost the rest of the week.Now at 412.34 was as high as 437.34.Keeping my nose to the grindstone trying to pick winners and still sticking to my unit size,no exceptions to the rule.When I decide to change if I feel the play is weeker I just bet a little less.
        Do u like anything in BBALL tonight  i was thinking over in Magic/Celtics.....what do u think?
     
    BOL 
     
    Adal1205
    Adal1205
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    Posted: Jan. 26, 2009 - 5:55 PM ET #102

    Hey Steel, thanks for the info, is very interesting. I'm working with it. I started with 1,000.00 bankroll on monday 1/19/09 and right now and on level 2. I'm using a money management strategy that i found on a ebook written by a guy named i think Stofo, or something like that. The book is called 12 Money Management Programs.The system consist that you set a goal ammount. That we have it that is the 25% increment in our bankroll.Let assume you start with a 1,000.00 bankroll then the goal would be 250.00 Then you divide the 250.00 by 4 = 62.5. Then the result you divide it in a 3 numbers series so that that the 1st and 3rd number are equal to each other and are twice the 2nd number.To get this you must divide the series total (62.5 in our example) by 5 to get the 2nd number of our series. 62.5/5 = 12.5. Then to get the 1st and 3rd number of the series we multiply the 2nd number by 2 and we get a 3 numbers series like this:
    25-12.5-25. The object now is to eliminate the series with 2 winning wagers, which means that in order to win our goal we must eliminate our series 4 times(62.5*4 = 250). We the 1st winning wager we eliminate the outside numbers(25+25=50); and we the 2nd  winning wager you eliminate the inside number (12.5)
    add the result to the  your previus series. For example you make a first wager of 55 to gain 50 to eliminate the outside numbers. If you lose that wager you divide the 55 risked and then add the result to the previous series. 55/3 = 18.33, so the new series would be 33.33-30.83-33.33. If you win then you eliminate the out numbers and now try to eliminate the inside number(12.5). So you make a wager of 13.75 to gain the 12.5. If you lose this wager then you add the ammount risked (13.75) and add to the inside number you want to eliminitate. And so on. I know it's kind of difficult but it worth it. Rememeber i order to get our goal we must win 8 wager to eliminate our series 4 times.
     
    Steel, what system do you use to get your goal?
     
    Thanks again for the info,
     
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    Hey Steel, thanks for the info, is very interesting. I'm working with it. I started with 1,000.00 bankroll on monday 1/19/09 and right now and on level 2. I'm using a money management strategy that i found on a ebook written by a guy named i think Stofo, or something like that. The book is called 12 Money Management Programs.The system consist that you set a goal ammount. That we have it that is the 25% increment in our bankroll.Let assume you start with a 1,000.00 bankroll then the goal would be 250.00 Then you divide the 250.00 by 4 = 62.5. Then the result you divide it in a 3 numbers series so that that the 1st and 3rd number are equal to each other and are twice the 2nd number.To get this you must divide the series total (62.5 in our example) by 5 to get the 2nd number of our series. 62.5/5 = 12.5. Then to get the 1st and 3rd number of the series we multiply the 2nd number by 2 and we get a 3 numbers series like this:
    25-12.5-25. The object now is to eliminate the series with 2 winning wagers, which means that in order to win our goal we must eliminate our series 4 times(62.5*4 = 250). We the 1st winning wager we eliminate the outside numbers(25+25=50); and we the 2nd  winning wager you eliminate the inside number (12.5)
    add the result to the  your previus series. For example you make a first wager of 55 to gain 50 to eliminate the outside numbers. If you lose that wager you divide the 55 risked and then add the result to the previous series. 55/3 = 18.33, so the new series would be 33.33-30.83-33.33. If you win then you eliminate the out numbers and now try to eliminate the inside number(12.5). So you make a wager of 13.75 to gain the 12.5. If you lose this wager then you add the ammount risked (13.75) and add to the inside number you want to eliminitate. And so on. I know it's kind of difficult but it worth it. Rememeber i order to get our goal we must win 8 wager to eliminate our series 4 times.
     
    Steel, what system do you use to get your goal?
     
    Thanks again for the info,
     
     
    JB13372
    JB13372
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    Posted: Jan. 26, 2009 - 6:32 PM ET #103

    I'm still relatively new to this.  What are these UNITS you talk of and where is everyone posting their bets?  I go to www.just bet.com.  Get back with me...and I wager dollars not UNITS...what gives?
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    I'm still relatively new to this.  What are these UNITS you talk of and where is everyone posting their bets?  I go to www.just bet.com.  Get back with me...and I wager dollars not UNITS...what gives?
     
    SteelCash
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2009 - 9:17 PM ET #104

          A unit is simply a wager amount.  I keep 35 units right now.  So my wager amount (unit) is typically 1/35 of my bankroll.  So if you have a bankroll of $1,000, you usual bet amount (or your unit) would be $1,000/35, or $28.57.

         I took a hit a few weeks ago (long story) and now I'm at level 14.  I was at 19.  I didn't stick to the system.  But I'm not gonna do that again.  I've doing fairly well lately though.  Tonight my roll was at 505.20 and I placed six wagers for .625u each.  So I'm risking 3.75u in all.  I have the Nuggets -5.5 and the over 199 in that game among other wagers. 

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          A unit is simply a wager amount.  I keep 35 units right now.  So my wager amount (unit) is typically 1/35 of my bankroll.  So if you have a bankroll of $1,000, you usual bet amount (or your unit) would be $1,000/35, or $28.57.

         I took a hit a few weeks ago (long story) and now I'm at level 14.  I was at 19.  I didn't stick to the system.  But I'm not gonna do that again.  I've doing fairly well lately though.  Tonight my roll was at 505.20 and I placed six wagers for .625u each.  So I'm risking 3.75u in all.  I have the Nuggets -5.5 and the over 199 in that game among other wagers. 

     
    SteelCash
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2009 - 9:20 PM ET #105

         I actually meant to take the under in the Cavs game and I accidently bet the over.  And it's gonna cost me. 
         OMG... I cant believe I did that!
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         I actually meant to take the under in the Cavs game and I accidently bet the over.  And it's gonna cost me. 
         OMG... I cant believe I did that!
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2009 - 10:49 PM ET #106

    Quote Originally Posted by PuckHog:

    Hi Steel,
         I'm still working my way to the next level(488.00)
    Hit a 61.00 payoff on a 3 team parlay,but so far lost the rest of the week.Now at 412.34 was as high as 437.34.Keeping my nose to the grindstone trying to pick winners and still sticking to my unit size,no exceptions to the rule.When I decide to change if I feel the play is weeker I just bet a little less.
        Do u like anything in BBALL tonight  i was thinking over in Magic/Celtics.....what do u think?
     
    BOL 

    Good to see you're still going at it.  I'm hoping to go 4-2 tonight.  I need the Denver over yet (199) and I'm giving 5.5 to the Spurs in that also.  If I get those those 2 I'll have a 4-2 night and gain 1.02u. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuckHog:

    Hi Steel,
         I'm still working my way to the next level(488.00)
    Hit a 61.00 payoff on a 3 team parlay,but so far lost the rest of the week.Now at 412.34 was as high as 437.34.Keeping my nose to the grindstone trying to pick winners and still sticking to my unit size,no exceptions to the rule.When I decide to change if I feel the play is weeker I just bet a little less.
        Do u like anything in BBALL tonight  i was thinking over in Magic/Celtics.....what do u think?
     
    BOL 

    Good to see you're still going at it.  I'm hoping to go 4-2 tonight.  I need the Denver over yet (199) and I'm giving 5.5 to the Spurs in that also.  If I get those those 2 I'll have a 4-2 night and gain 1.02u. 

     
    SteelCash
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2009 - 10:57 PM ET #107

         Boy did I screw up that Cleve/Tor total... That's alright.  Level 15 is almost in sight.  I've got some making up to do as I was at level 19 simply got too careless.  I know why I got careless though, and I wont let it happen again.  I'm gonna try to start posting my plays around 6:30 or 6:45 from now on.  I cant promise anything because I need a new computer.  Right now I'm on my fiancee's and I cant always get on it. 
         Man I need a big 4th quarter out of Denver.  End of third right now, Denver 76-68. 
         Best of luck tomorrow to all of you.  Keep that long term goal in sight!!!  Let's do this!!! 
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         Boy did I screw up that Cleve/Tor total... That's alright.  Level 15 is almost in sight.  I've got some making up to do as I was at level 19 simply got too careless.  I know why I got careless though, and I wont let it happen again.  I'm gonna try to start posting my plays around 6:30 or 6:45 from now on.  I cant promise anything because I need a new computer.  Right now I'm on my fiancee's and I cant always get on it. 
         Man I need a big 4th quarter out of Denver.  End of third right now, Denver 76-68. 
         Best of luck tomorrow to all of you.  Keep that long term goal in sight!!!  Let's do this!!! 
     
    SteelCash
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2009 - 10:59 PM ET #108

    Adal1205...
     
         Very interesting.  I'll just stick to my system though.  Thanks for sharing though. 
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    Adal1205...
     
         Very interesting.  I'll just stick to my system though.  Thanks for sharing though. 
     
    woolyfsu
    woolyfsu
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    Posted: Feb. 4, 2009 - 2:36 AM ET #109

    I'll join the banter and say that I too find this all very interesting but like how its goal oriented. Unfortunately, I'm a recovering parlay player and am swearing against them starting next monday. I got hooked during football season hitting four and five gamers like it was nothing, but have quickly found out that you just cant keep that going. I kept track of my last few weeks of parlays and realized that i was hitting nearly 70% on my picks, but since they were all dependent on the others, it didnt matter. So anyway, I guess i'm looking for something to keep me straight and this just may be the ticket. I do have a couple questions though:
    1. As you progress levels, I assume that your Unit Amount increases at the same rate, correct? For example, I'll be starting with $200 which is 20 units of $10 (min bet on my book). When I reach level two does my unit increase to $12.50 and so on?
    2. Regarding changing your units down as you progress (as you suggested above), doesnt that promote more wagering to achieve your goals? For instance if i get to my level five, i'll have a roll of $610 with a unit value of $30.50, are you suggesting moving that down to $15.25 so that i'll be playing with 40 units? This would require a lot more success and time to reach level six, but would allow for more breathing room during a drought. 
    3. At what clip do you have to succeed to make this work? obviously over 50%, but if there is one thing we all know is that's easier said than done. Does it rely on 60% or better?
     
    I'll conclude by saying again that I think this is a great idea for someone like me. I wager without much rhyme or reason in a haphazardly fashion, putting $500 here or $25 there just for the hell of it. In fact, this system is almost like using casino chips if you can truly make yourself believe that every unit has the same inherent value. If i had just read this earlier today, i would already be on level two going 10-5 on my picks tonight (but they were all mixed in parlays)! Thanks again for starting this thread, cause if nothing else it makes gambling even more exciting.  I'll repost soon when I get my train started on the system.
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    I'll join the banter and say that I too find this all very interesting but like how its goal oriented. Unfortunately, I'm a recovering parlay player and am swearing against them starting next monday. I got hooked during football season hitting four and five gamers like it was nothing, but have quickly found out that you just cant keep that going. I kept track of my last few weeks of parlays and realized that i was hitting nearly 70% on my picks, but since they were all dependent on the others, it didnt matter. So anyway, I guess i'm looking for something to keep me straight and this just may be the ticket. I do have a couple questions though:
    1. As you progress levels, I assume that your Unit Amount increases at the same rate, correct? For example, I'll be starting with $200 which is 20 units of $10 (min bet on my book). When I reach level two does my unit increase to $12.50 and so on?
    2. Regarding changing your units down as you progress (as you suggested above), doesnt that promote more wagering to achieve your goals? For instance if i get to my level five, i'll have a roll of $610 with a unit value of $30.50, are you suggesting moving that down to $15.25 so that i'll be playing with 40 units? This would require a lot more success and time to reach level six, but would allow for more breathing room during a drought. 
    3. At what clip do you have to succeed to make this work? obviously over 50%, but if there is one thing we all know is that's easier said than done. Does it rely on 60% or better?
     
    I'll conclude by saying again that I think this is a great idea for someone like me. I wager without much rhyme or reason in a haphazardly fashion, putting $500 here or $25 there just for the hell of it. In fact, this system is almost like using casino chips if you can truly make yourself believe that every unit has the same inherent value. If i had just read this earlier today, i would already be on level two going 10-5 on my picks tonight (but they were all mixed in parlays)! Thanks again for starting this thread, cause if nothing else it makes gambling even more exciting.  I'll repost soon when I get my train started on the system.
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 5, 2009 - 9:19 PM ET #110

    1.  Yes.  When you reach your new level, you reconfigure your units.  If your goal is $750.00, you take 1/20 of that to figure your unit amount, and you use that as soon as you reach it.
    2.  I never have set a rigid system for increasing your unit amounts.  That's something you need to just play by ear.  But you're right in saying that it will take you a bit longer to complete each level, but at the same time, it will allow for more breathing room during a drought, or a slump.
    3.  I never figured it out.
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    1.  Yes.  When you reach your new level, you reconfigure your units.  If your goal is $750.00, you take 1/20 of that to figure your unit amount, and you use that as soon as you reach it.
    2.  I never have set a rigid system for increasing your unit amounts.  That's something you need to just play by ear.  But you're right in saying that it will take you a bit longer to complete each level, but at the same time, it will allow for more breathing room during a drought, or a slump.
    3.  I never figured it out.
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 5, 2009 - 11:52 PM ET #111

    I have Fresno +2.5 tonight and over 133 in that game.  Hopefully Gonzaga pulls it together and covers -10.  I have that for 1u also... I went 2-6-1 last night
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    I have Fresno +2.5 tonight and over 133 in that game.  Hopefully Gonzaga pulls it together and covers -10.  I have that for 1u also... I went 2-6-1 last night
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 5, 2009 - 11:54 PM ET #112

         Had the over in the Pacers game tonight
     
         Hit the over in the Lakers game
         Hit the Lakers +7
         Need the over in the Dallas game still
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         Had the over in the Pacers game tonight
     
         Hit the over in the Lakers game
         Hit the Lakers +7
         Need the over in the Dallas game still
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2009 - 12:02 AM ET #113

          Tomorrow I will play the under in the Nicks game, the under in the Wizards game, and the under in the Clippers game. 
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          Tomorrow I will play the under in the Nicks game, the under in the Wizards game, and the under in the Clippers game. 
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2009 - 12:09 AM ET #114

    Still on level 14 and level 15 seems like a mile away.  Tonight could draw me alot closer though.  It all hinges on the Mavericks total, the Gonzaga game, and the Fresno game.  I have 5u total (two on Gonzaga -10) right there.    I'm hoping for a great night! 
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    Still on level 14 and level 15 seems like a mile away.  Tonight could draw me alot closer though.  It all hinges on the Mavericks total, the Gonzaga game, and the Fresno game.  I have 5u total (two on Gonzaga -10) right there.    I'm hoping for a great night! 
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2009 - 6:29 PM ET #115

    I have the following tonight for .5u each @ -105
     
    All NBA...
     
    Tor +2.5
    Den -8.5
    NY/Bos O 208
    Wash/Den U 205
    LAC/Mem U 202.5
    Orlando -6
    NY +6.5
    Port -6
    Port/OKC O 199
    NO/Tor O 183.5
     
     
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    I have the following tonight for .5u each @ -105
     
    All NBA...
     
    Tor +2.5
    Den -8.5
    NY/Bos O 208
    Wash/Den U 205
    LAC/Mem U 202.5
    Orlando -6
    NY +6.5
    Port -6
    Port/OKC O 199
    NO/Tor O 183.5
     
     
     
    PuckHog
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    Posted: Feb. 7, 2009 - 12:06 AM ET #116

    Hi SteelCash,
                I'm still working on my parlay plays and moving up/down at level 3-4.
               I eased up on the number of plays each day to 2 only,usually 2-3 team parlay(ov/un..ml...spd combos).Winning a couple a week to keep me progressing slowly,but thats ok with me.
               Looks like u had a rough night tonight with all your picks in the NBA......better luck Saturday
               I took the Raptors too and they fell apart in the 4th qtr again,could not defend against the 3 pointers.
     
              I'll take a peek Sat. to see if u have posted any plays.
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    Hi SteelCash,
                I'm still working on my parlay plays and moving up/down at level 3-4.
               I eased up on the number of plays each day to 2 only,usually 2-3 team parlay(ov/un..ml...spd combos).Winning a couple a week to keep me progressing slowly,but thats ok with me.
               Looks like u had a rough night tonight with all your picks in the NBA......better luck Saturday
               I took the Raptors too and they fell apart in the 4th qtr again,could not defend against the 3 pointers.
     
              I'll take a peek Sat. to see if u have posted any plays.
     
    woolyfsu
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    Posted: Feb. 9, 2009 - 6:18 PM ET #117

    Steel- As promised I'm back and ready to give this thing a shot. I'm starting with 20U (actually have 25U but those 5 are insurance). Every 25% increase, I'm going to increase my unit by 25% as well. Starting tonight at level 1 and would love to make it to level 2 this evening!! I'll keep you posted and BOL!!
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    Steel- As promised I'm back and ready to give this thing a shot. I'm starting with 20U (actually have 25U but those 5 are insurance). Every 25% increase, I'm going to increase my unit by 25% as well. Starting tonight at level 1 and would love to make it to level 2 this evening!! I'll keep you posted and BOL!!
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 11, 2009 - 6:37 PM ET #118

    I have not been doing well as of late.  I had to bury my dog Tuesday... Also my wagers have not been so well either.  You know that everyone has their cold streaks.  Well, I am hopefully done with mine.  I have dropped many levels and my bank roll is at $240 and change.  So my goal is now $291.10, and I am on level 11.  Some of it was my fault, some of it is just how it goes.  My units are now $6.65 and I will not give up.  Onward I march.  The other night I put 3 units on two halftime wagers and lost them both.  This after I put 5.75u on the Raptors about a week ago, and they didn't cover.  It's been a rough going of it, but I will not lose sight of the goal at hand.  I'll update in another week or so.  I hope everyone is doing fine.  Better than me anyways...
     
    woolyfsu...
     
    Here's what I have tonight...
     
    Charlotte -7.5
    Orlando -7
    Philly -11
    Cle -8.5
     
    Too much chalk but ... may add more later 


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    I have not been doing well as of late.  I had to bury my dog Tuesday... Also my wagers have not been so well either.  You know that everyone has their cold streaks.  Well, I am hopefully done with mine.  I have dropped many levels and my bank roll is at $240 and change.  So my goal is now $291.10, and I am on level 11.  Some of it was my fault, some of it is just how it goes.  My units are now $6.65 and I will not give up.  Onward I march.  The other night I put 3 units on two halftime wagers and lost them both.  This after I put 5.75u on the Raptors about a week ago, and they didn't cover.  It's been a rough going of it, but I will not lose sight of the goal at hand.  I'll update in another week or so.  I hope everyone is doing fine.  Better than me anyways...
     
    woolyfsu...
     
    Here's what I have tonight...
     
    Charlotte -7.5
    Orlando -7
    Philly -11
    Cle -8.5
     
    Too much chalk but ... may add more later 


     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 11, 2009 - 6:39 PM ET #119

    I am putting one unit on each at -110.
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    I am putting one unit on each at -110.
     
    PuckHog
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    Posted: Feb. 11, 2009 - 11:25 PM ET #120

    Hi SC.....
    sorry to hear about your dog, when you lose a long time friend its hard to think clearly.Hang in there buddy and you will feel better after some time passes.
         On the sporst betting front,I too have hit the wall,only need Habs tonight for a 84.00 parlay cash and there down 4-0 in the 1st period.
        I guess i should have took the Raps at home with the big upset of San Antonio.
       I am down to 320.00 level 2 and my unit size is now 6.00,but not giving up yet either,trying to make better selections and not play as many games,for starters.
       Looks like u went 2-2 tonight,on those big spread games,and you didn't take the Raps either.
        Maybe we will do better Thursday.........
    Take it easy......
                     
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    Hi SC.....
    sorry to hear about your dog, when you lose a long time friend its hard to think clearly.Hang in there buddy and you will feel better after some time passes.
         On the sporst betting front,I too have hit the wall,only need Habs tonight for a 84.00 parlay cash and there down 4-0 in the 1st period.
        I guess i should have took the Raps at home with the big upset of San Antonio.
       I am down to 320.00 level 2 and my unit size is now 6.00,but not giving up yet either,trying to make better selections and not play as many games,for starters.
       Looks like u went 2-2 tonight,on those big spread games,and you didn't take the Raps either.
        Maybe we will do better Thursday.........
    Take it easy......
                     
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 12, 2009 - 6:44 PM ET #121

     Hang in there puck
     
    I have the over in the Celts game (195) and Dallas +3.5.  I also took the Bulls -4.  All for 1.25u each @ -110.  Good luck to all!
     
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     Hang in there puck
     
    I have the over in the Celts game (195) and Dallas +3.5.  I also took the Bulls -4.  All for 1.25u each @ -110.  Good luck to all!
     
     
    PuckHog
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    Posted: Feb. 12, 2009 - 10:42 PM ET #122

    I watched the Bulls game...it should have went into overtime 93-93,with .04 sec left.Bulls had the ball and inbounded it and was picked off by Miami,they called a timeout and then inbounded and drove for a layup,no def at all by the bulls......and the rest was history.Get this,I had Miami team total over 96 !!!!!!!!  Final score Miami 95-93.....no OT ...no over 96.... no..
           And the  continues.......-2 units tonight
     
    BOL with the Celts/Dallas game.....get some
     
    to  u  also...
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    I watched the Bulls game...it should have went into overtime 93-93,with .04 sec left.Bulls had the ball and inbounded it and was picked off by Miami,they called a timeout and then inbounded and drove for a layup,no def at all by the bulls......and the rest was history.Get this,I had Miami team total over 96 !!!!!!!!  Final score Miami 95-93.....no OT ...no over 96.... no..
           And the  continues.......-2 units tonight
     
    BOL with the Celts/Dallas game.....get some
     
    to  u  also...
     
    PuckHog
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    Posted: Feb. 12, 2009 - 10:49 PM ET #123

    And my remaining late 4 team parlay for tonight a 1 unit play.
     
                  Oreg St +16 1/2 and the over  134
     
                  GS Warriors -3  ov Portland
     
                  Arizona - 2 1/2  ov USC
     
    Pays 12  units.......   
     
    Goodnight 
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    And my remaining late 4 team parlay for tonight a 1 unit play.
     
                  Oreg St +16 1/2 and the over  134
     
                  GS Warriors -3  ov Portland
     
                  Arizona - 2 1/2  ov USC
     
    Pays 12  units.......   
     
    Goodnight 
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 13, 2009 - 6:19 PM ET #124

    I went 0-3 last night
     
    I dont know when this slump will end.  If it doesn't soon I will be bankrupt...
     
    One unit each on the following tonight @ -105
     
    Butler -13
    W. Virginia -3.5
    W. Virginia/Villanova U138.5
     
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    I went 0-3 last night
     
    I dont know when this slump will end.  If it doesn't soon I will be bankrupt...
     
    One unit each on the following tonight @ -105
     
    Butler -13
    W. Virginia -3.5
    W. Virginia/Villanova U138.5
     
     
     
    SteelCash
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    Posted: Feb. 13, 2009 - 6:21 PM ET #125

    This is one of the worst slumps I've ever been in.  It's gotta end soon.          
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    This is one of the worst slumps I've ever been in.  It's gotta end soon.          
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