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    All Forums | Politics

    Wendy's Franchisee Slashes Employee Hours To Sidestep Obamacare

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    lordspoint
    UberDog
    wallstreetcappers
    14daroad
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    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 6:37 PM ET #76

    who didnt see this coming when they passed the law?

    oh wait, what page was it on? hmmmm

    we have to pass it to know whats in it I think was the cry from the lady at the top was it not?

    why dont we keep some of the money we borrow from China instead of given BILLIONS of it away to Egypt and a whole host of other nations?

    gee ya think?

     

     

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    who didnt see this coming when they passed the law?

    oh wait, what page was it on? hmmmm

    we have to pass it to know whats in it I think was the cry from the lady at the top was it not?

    why dont we keep some of the money we borrow from China instead of given BILLIONS of it away to Egypt and a whole host of other nations?

    gee ya think?

     

     

     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 6:38 PM ET #77

    and if anyone here thinks R's or D's have your best interest at heart you're an idiot.

    I would use profanity but I heard it was f*cking banned around these parts

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    and if anyone here thinks R's or D's have your best interest at heart you're an idiot.

    I would use profanity but I heard it was f*cking banned around these parts

     
    UberDog
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 6:54 PM ET #78

    newsflash--health care costs and insurance premiums have been going up without Obamacare. Not that ACA is the cure, but the upward spiral didn't just happen yesterday or two years ago when they passed the reform law.
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    newsflash--health care costs and insurance premiums have been going up without Obamacare. Not that ACA is the cure, but the upward spiral didn't just happen yesterday or two years ago when they passed the reform law.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 6:58 PM ET #79

    14,

    Employers are not required to subsidize insurance for employees under "Obamacare"..do you understand that concept?

    Employers CAN subsidize and offer it as a benefit, but they are not required to. They can offer a health insurance plan, just as people can go find independent insurance if they were self employed.

    Having a group policy can positively lower costs vs an indy plan..

    So what part of this simple concept is not coming across the plate to you?
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    14,

    Employers are not required to subsidize insurance for employees under "Obamacare"..do you understand that concept?

    Employers CAN subsidize and offer it as a benefit, but they are not required to. They can offer a health insurance plan, just as people can go find independent insurance if they were self employed.

    Having a group policy can positively lower costs vs an indy plan..

    So what part of this simple concept is not coming across the plate to you?
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 9:39 PM ET #80

    Wall
    Please explain the Free Rider provision to me that is part of Obamacare.
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    Wall
    Please explain the Free Rider provision to me that is part of Obamacare.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 9:57 PM ET #81

    What does that have to do with the my comments exactly?
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    What does that have to do with the my comments exactly?
     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:02 PM ET #82

    Costs my friend - penalties etc.
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    Costs my friend - penalties etc.
     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:03 PM ET #83

    Your 1st comment in this thread was that companies shoulder no burden. You say they merely have to provide a plan. Dig a bit deeper into and you will see what I am talking about.
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    Your 1st comment in this thread was that companies shoulder no burden. You say they merely have to provide a plan. Dig a bit deeper into and you will see what I am talking about.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:10 PM ET #84

    I am not talking about loopholes or pre-existing issues like the government forcing hospitals to take people without insurance.

    My comment was that employers are not forced to offset premium cost.

    My other comment was that healthcare inflation exists pre and post Obamacare.


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    I am not talking about loopholes or pre-existing issues like the government forcing hospitals to take people without insurance.

    My comment was that employers are not forced to offset premium cost.

    My other comment was that healthcare inflation exists pre and post Obamacare.


     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:13 PM ET #85

    A debate would be nice. I blame both parties for the host of troubles this country has. I think everyone should be insured but Obamacare is a pretty big mess in my humble opinion.
    I don't know the law inside and out so I may have assumptions or interpretations that are wrong just like others around here. Like I said, a debate would be nice so we can ALL learn as discus in a civil manner
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    A debate would be nice. I blame both parties for the host of troubles this country has. I think everyone should be insured but Obamacare is a pretty big mess in my humble opinion.
    I don't know the law inside and out so I may have assumptions or interpretations that are wrong just like others around here. Like I said, a debate would be nice so we can ALL learn as discus in a civil manner
     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:15 PM ET #86

    Ok, I thought you said employees should no cost burden.
    That's why I brought it up...there can be a cost burden for employers under the law even if they offer a plan.
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    Ok, I thought you said employees should no cost burden.
    That's why I brought it up...there can be a cost burden for employers under the law even if they offer a plan.
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:19 PM ET #87

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Ok, I thought you said employees should no cost burden.
    That's why I brought it up...there can be a cost burden for employers under the law even if they offer a plan.


    How is the freeloader issue a cost burden for employers?

    If I own a business and work out a plan for my employees but do not participate in reducing premiums, what is my cost exactly?

    Now if you want to toss in admin costs if the might exist, I consider that the same as if the biz owner farmed out his own policy, any "cost" from an admin perspective is not in this equation as they do not need to exist and even if they do exist it is akin to the savings from having a group policy. Meaning if a group of employees have a plan, it would STILL cost less if the admin fee was added to premiums vs going out in the private sector to find comparable plan coverage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Ok, I thought you said employees should no cost burden.
    That's why I brought it up...there can be a cost burden for employers under the law even if they offer a plan.


    How is the freeloader issue a cost burden for employers?

    If I own a business and work out a plan for my employees but do not participate in reducing premiums, what is my cost exactly?

    Now if you want to toss in admin costs if the might exist, I consider that the same as if the biz owner farmed out his own policy, any "cost" from an admin perspective is not in this equation as they do not need to exist and even if they do exist it is akin to the savings from having a group policy. Meaning if a group of employees have a plan, it would STILL cost less if the admin fee was added to premiums vs going out in the private sector to find comparable plan coverage.
     
    UberDog
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    Posted: Jan. 9, 2013 - 10:53 PM ET #88

    It's interesting how so many posters seem to know how the ACA is going to work when all of the rules are not promulgated and the governors of states are looking for information from DHHS. Many if not most governors let the deadlines for health exchanges pass and have not decided whether they're going for the optional Medicaid expansion. Much of this talk here is premature, misinformed and without any basis in fact.  
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    It's interesting how so many posters seem to know how the ACA is going to work when all of the rules are not promulgated and the governors of states are looking for information from DHHS. Many if not most governors let the deadlines for health exchanges pass and have not decided whether they're going for the optional Medicaid expansion. Much of this talk here is premature, misinformed and without any basis in fact.  
     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 8:30 AM ET #89

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    14,

    Employers are not required to subsidize insurance for employees under "Obamacare"..do you understand that concept?

    Employers CAN subsidize and offer it as a benefit, but they are not required to. They can offer a health insurance plan, just as people can go find independent insurance if they were self employed.

    Having a group policy can positively lower costs vs an indy plan..

    So what part of this simple concept is not coming across the plate to you?

    No comment I made addressed this or brought it up.

    But since you did:

    The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) requires businesses with 50 or more full-time employees — with “full time” defined as working at least 30 hours per week — to offer “affordable” health insurance to those employees. Insurance is deemed affordable if it costs an employee no more than 9.5 percent of his total household income.

    If an employee finds that his employer-sponsored insurance is unaffordable as defined by law, he may decline to participate in it and instead obtain insurance on a state insurance exchange, where, depending on his income level, his premiums may be subsidized by the government. (Having no insurance, of course, is not an option in the “land of the free”: Uninsured individuals face a tax penalty of $695 or 2.5 percent of their income, whichever is higher.) For every one of his employees who turns down “unaffordable” employer-sponsored insurance in favor of insurance on an exchange, an employer will be fined up to $3,000.

    For firms which do not offer employees any insurance, have more than 50 employees, and have at least one employee receiving insurance subsidies, they must pay a tax of $2000 per subsidized employee. The tax is applied to all of a firm’s employees (after excluding the first 30), not just those that are subsidized. For example a firm with 51 employees would pay $42,000 in new annual taxes, and an additional $2,000 tax for every new hire.

    ==============

    So I guess you're pretending that "required" is a term you can simply make up or change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    14,

    Employers are not required to subsidize insurance for employees under "Obamacare"..do you understand that concept?

    Employers CAN subsidize and offer it as a benefit, but they are not required to. They can offer a health insurance plan, just as people can go find independent insurance if they were self employed.

    Having a group policy can positively lower costs vs an indy plan..

    So what part of this simple concept is not coming across the plate to you?

    No comment I made addressed this or brought it up.

    But since you did:

    The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) requires businesses with 50 or more full-time employees — with “full time” defined as working at least 30 hours per week — to offer “affordable” health insurance to those employees. Insurance is deemed affordable if it costs an employee no more than 9.5 percent of his total household income.

    If an employee finds that his employer-sponsored insurance is unaffordable as defined by law, he may decline to participate in it and instead obtain insurance on a state insurance exchange, where, depending on his income level, his premiums may be subsidized by the government. (Having no insurance, of course, is not an option in the “land of the free”: Uninsured individuals face a tax penalty of $695 or 2.5 percent of their income, whichever is higher.) For every one of his employees who turns down “unaffordable” employer-sponsored insurance in favor of insurance on an exchange, an employer will be fined up to $3,000.

    For firms which do not offer employees any insurance, have more than 50 employees, and have at least one employee receiving insurance subsidies, they must pay a tax of $2000 per subsidized employee. The tax is applied to all of a firm’s employees (after excluding the first 30), not just those that are subsidized. For example a firm with 51 employees would pay $42,000 in new annual taxes, and an additional $2,000 tax for every new hire.

    ==============

    So I guess you're pretending that "required" is a term you can simply make up or change.

     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 8:32 AM ET #90

    So as we see, employers are indeed required to offer insurance or pay a fine.

    And in fact when employers offer insurance they do indeed subsidize it.

    So once again, Wall Street Cappers shows that the sweeping grand statements he likes to make have no foundation in fact.

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    So as we see, employers are indeed required to offer insurance or pay a fine.

    And in fact when employers offer insurance they do indeed subsidize it.

    So once again, Wall Street Cappers shows that the sweeping grand statements he likes to make have no foundation in fact.

     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 11:02 AM ET #91

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



    How is the freeloader issue a cost burden for employers?

    If I own a business and work out a plan for my employees but do not participate in reducing premiums, what is my cost exactly?

    Now if you want to toss in admin costs if the might exist, I consider that the same as if the biz owner farmed out his own policy, any "cost" from an admin perspective is not in this equation as they do not need to exist and even if they do exist it is akin to the savings from having a group policy. Meaning if a group of employees have a plan, it would STILL cost less if the admin fee was added to premiums vs going out in the private sector to find comparable plan coverage.

    “Free-Rider” Provision

    ObamaCare does not impose a straight-forward requirement that employers offer health insurance to workers. Proponents of the new law wanted to avoid the charge that the new law was directly imposing new costs on American business. So, instead, they created a back-door mandate, what they call the “free-rider” provision.

    If a firm with at least 50 workers has a full-time employee who is getting federally-subsided insurance through an ”exchange,” then that employer must pay a penalty for failing to offer that worker acceptable insurance on the job. (Workers that are offered qualified coverage by an employer are ineligible for the new insurance subsidies provided in the exchanges.)

    The tax is scheduled to begin in 2014 and the Congressional Budget Office estimates it will bring in approximately $10 billion in annual revenue once it’s fully implemented.

    Penalties For Failure To Insure

    For firms which do not offer insurance any insurance, have more than 50 employees, and have at least one employee receiving insurance subsidies, they must pay a tax of $2000 per subsidized employee. The tax is applied to all of a firm’s employees (after excluding the first 30), not just those that are subsidized. For example a firm with 51 employees would pay $42,000 in new annual taxes, and an additional $2,000 tax for every new hire.

    For firms that do offer insurance, the penalty is the lesser of $2,000 for every employee (after exempting the first 30) or $3,000) for every employee receiving a subsidy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



    How is the freeloader issue a cost burden for employers?

    If I own a business and work out a plan for my employees but do not participate in reducing premiums, what is my cost exactly?

    Now if you want to toss in admin costs if the might exist, I consider that the same as if the biz owner farmed out his own policy, any "cost" from an admin perspective is not in this equation as they do not need to exist and even if they do exist it is akin to the savings from having a group policy. Meaning if a group of employees have a plan, it would STILL cost less if the admin fee was added to premiums vs going out in the private sector to find comparable plan coverage.

    “Free-Rider” Provision

    ObamaCare does not impose a straight-forward requirement that employers offer health insurance to workers. Proponents of the new law wanted to avoid the charge that the new law was directly imposing new costs on American business. So, instead, they created a back-door mandate, what they call the “free-rider” provision.

    If a firm with at least 50 workers has a full-time employee who is getting federally-subsided insurance through an ”exchange,” then that employer must pay a penalty for failing to offer that worker acceptable insurance on the job. (Workers that are offered qualified coverage by an employer are ineligible for the new insurance subsidies provided in the exchanges.)

    The tax is scheduled to begin in 2014 and the Congressional Budget Office estimates it will bring in approximately $10 billion in annual revenue once it’s fully implemented.

    Penalties For Failure To Insure

    For firms which do not offer insurance any insurance, have more than 50 employees, and have at least one employee receiving insurance subsidies, they must pay a tax of $2000 per subsidized employee. The tax is applied to all of a firm’s employees (after excluding the first 30), not just those that are subsidized. For example a firm with 51 employees would pay $42,000 in new annual taxes, and an additional $2,000 tax for every new hire.

    For firms that do offer insurance, the penalty is the lesser of $2,000 for every employee (after exempting the first 30) or $3,000) for every employee receiving a subsidy.

     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 11:12 AM ET #92

    wall, there are so many unintended consequences of this law that it is laughable to really call them unintended.

    I just noticed 14 posted something similar above.

    Would appreciate your feedback as I think this is an important debate to have.

    One thing we should ALL remember is that not all biz with 50 or more employees is some multinational conglomerate. Quite the opposite actually. Also, just because someone is in business doesnt mean they sleep on a bed stuffed with $100 bills.

     

     

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    wall, there are so many unintended consequences of this law that it is laughable to really call them unintended.

    I just noticed 14 posted something similar above.

    Would appreciate your feedback as I think this is an important debate to have.

    One thing we should ALL remember is that not all biz with 50 or more employees is some multinational conglomerate. Quite the opposite actually. Also, just because someone is in business doesnt mean they sleep on a bed stuffed with $100 bills.

     

     

     
    djbrow
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 11:52 AM ET #93

    I'll be interested if anyone can post a link to a provison in ObamaCare that requires employers to both provide and PAY for health insurance of employees.

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    I'll be interested if anyone can post a link to a provison in ObamaCare that requires employers to both provide and PAY for health insurance of employees.

     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 12:19 PM ET #94

    dj

    it doesnt require an employer with 50+ employees do provide a plan. BUT if that employer does not then they pay a fine.

    Whats your point by the way?

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    dj

    it doesnt require an employer with 50+ employees do provide a plan. BUT if that employer does not then they pay a fine.

    Whats your point by the way?

     
    bunny651
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 12:31 PM ET #95

    We've known the issue since Clinton years, then 8 more years for Bush and still nothing ever gets done about it. Right, just blame the other side.....

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    We've known the issue since Clinton years, then 8 more years for Bush and still nothing ever gets done about it. Right, just blame the other side.....

     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 12:52 PM ET #96

    14,

    Sarcastic swing and miss as usual.

    You did not refute what I said in any fashion, you can quote what you did but that does not change my remarks or the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    I dont see why we should be mad that companies are actually required to offer access to a healthcare plan that really provides a service.
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    14,

    Sarcastic swing and miss as usual.

    You did not refute what I said in any fashion, you can quote what you did but that does not change my remarks or the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    I dont see why we should be mad that companies are actually required to offer access to a healthcare plan that really provides a service.
     
    lordspoint
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 1:15 PM ET #97

    wall

    they may not be required to pay for premiums but they are required to pay a penalty if

    1) they dont provide a plan

    2) someone cannot afford the plan they offer (plans that actually provide a service are not exactly cheap so many low wage earners may find themselves unable to afford the premiums in which case they go to fed subsidized plan and the employer has to pay a fine) Now the employer can offer a cheap garbage plan that the employee can afford but then they dont get the real services you want them to get.

    why should a business be responsible for a persons healthcare? Is that the role that must be thrust open business? or is there another solution that is out there??

     

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    wall

    they may not be required to pay for premiums but they are required to pay a penalty if

    1) they dont provide a plan

    2) someone cannot afford the plan they offer (plans that actually provide a service are not exactly cheap so many low wage earners may find themselves unable to afford the premiums in which case they go to fed subsidized plan and the employer has to pay a fine) Now the employer can offer a cheap garbage plan that the employee can afford but then they dont get the real services you want them to get.

    why should a business be responsible for a persons healthcare? Is that the role that must be thrust open business? or is there another solution that is out there??

     

     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 1:17 PM ET #98

     the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    Please list a company that provides employer sponsored health insuracne but does not pay any premiums as a part of the compensation package or plan arrangement.

    Just one.

    Thanks.


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     the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    Please list a company that provides employer sponsored health insuracne but does not pay any premiums as a part of the compensation package or plan arrangement.

    Just one.

    Thanks.


     
    14daroad
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 1:20 PM ET #99

    did but that does not change my remarks or the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    Oh, and that's great. Because nobody was arguing any such thing by the way. So you've spend a bunch of posts making a point about ObamaCare nobody really discussed.

    And of course since ObamaCare is driving up premiums, of course you'll do that as a diversion.

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    did but that does not change my remarks or the fact that employers are not required to PAY for healthcare premiums.

    Oh, and that's great. Because nobody was arguing any such thing by the way. So you've spend a bunch of posts making a point about ObamaCare nobody really discussed.

    And of course since ObamaCare is driving up premiums, of course you'll do that as a diversion.

     
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Jan. 10, 2013 - 1:25 PM ET #100

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    wall

    they may not be required to pay for premiums but they are required to pay a penalty if

    1) they dont provide a plan

    2) someone cannot afford the plan they offer (plans that actually provide a service are not exactly cheap so many low wage earners may find themselves unable to afford the premiums in which case they go to fed subsidized plan and the employer has to pay a fine) Now the employer can offer a cheap garbage plan that the employee can afford but then they dont get the real services you want them to get.

    why should a business be responsible for a persons healthcare? Is that the role that must be thrust open business? or is there another solution that is out there??

     



    There is a solution, people opt out and get their own plan.

    The need for coverage that actually covers is vital. Of course there is a corresponding cost to have coverage, but medical insurance is a life long part of existence. Why are we as a society against covering our medical needs yet we will pay for an IPhone or going out to eat and not even blink?

    People crying about medical premiums are most often those that do not need the coverage..need is an interesting term, it changes and evolves and when it does our thinking changes and that need shifts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    wall

    they may not be required to pay for premiums but they are required to pay a penalty if

    1) they dont provide a plan

    2) someone cannot afford the plan they offer (plans that actually provide a service are not exactly cheap so many low wage earners may find themselves unable to afford the premiums in which case they go to fed subsidized plan and the employer has to pay a fine) Now the employer can offer a cheap garbage plan that the employee can afford but then they dont get the real services you want them to get.

    why should a business be responsible for a persons healthcare? Is that the role that must be thrust open business? or is there another solution that is out there??

     



    There is a solution, people opt out and get their own plan.

    The need for coverage that actually covers is vital. Of course there is a corresponding cost to have coverage, but medical insurance is a life long part of existence. Why are we as a society against covering our medical needs yet we will pay for an IPhone or going out to eat and not even blink?

    People crying about medical premiums are most often those that do not need the coverage..need is an interesting term, it changes and evolves and when it does our thinking changes and that need shifts.


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