i'm not interested in getting into all that and i'm not arguing for an increased minimum wage. i am curious about those questions i asked if anyone has some greater economics knowledge.
to ask it another way, assuming wages have been mostly stagnant over the years, adjusted for inflation, and consumer spending is the biggest factor that drives our economy, isn't that a serious conflict that will seriously impair the economy at some point?
Maybe the economy needs to be reset more than needs to be stoked stimulated.
If more people can afford to buy houses the cost for houses goes up. If more people can afford to rent an apartment the price goes up.
Is that not what drives inflation at some level?
If everybody wants to ride a 3 legged unicorn, the price for unicorn rides goes up or 4 legged unicorns get a leg amputated.
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
i'm not interested in getting into all that and i'm not arguing for an increased minimum wage. i am curious about those questions i asked if anyone has some greater economics knowledge.
to ask it another way, assuming wages have been mostly stagnant over the years, adjusted for inflation, and consumer spending is the biggest factor that drives our economy, isn't that a serious conflict that will seriously impair the economy at some point?
Maybe the economy needs to be reset more than needs to be stoked stimulated.
If more people can afford to buy houses the cost for houses goes up. If more people can afford to rent an apartment the price goes up.
Is that not what drives inflation at some level?
If everybody wants to ride a 3 legged unicorn, the price for unicorn rides goes up or 4 legged unicorns get a leg amputated.
Most analysts that say that the more effective way to help the minimum wage earner is with tax incentives...those analyst have to be rainbow and unicorn anal-ysts...because you cant put more money into the pay checks of people that don't pay income tax in the first place,,
This is just another liberal redistributed of wealth scheme,,and what we don't need is another government entitlement program ..
I realize that because you are on SSDI, you may not understand this. When one earns a paycheck, there are monies that are taken out. They are called payroll taxes and include state tax, federal tax, and social security taxes.
So people are actually paying taxes. And since we are talking about the minimum wage, we are talking about people working and paying taxes. The idea of tax incentives to increase a paycheck, much like ObamaCare, is derivative from Republicans.
Most analysts that say that the more effective way to help the minimum wage earner is with tax incentives...those analyst have to be rainbow and unicorn anal-ysts...because you cant put more money into the pay checks of people that don't pay income tax in the first place,,
This is just another liberal redistributed of wealth scheme,,and what we don't need is another government entitlement program ..
I realize that because you are on SSDI, you may not understand this. When one earns a paycheck, there are monies that are taken out. They are called payroll taxes and include state tax, federal tax, and social security taxes.
So people are actually paying taxes. And since we are talking about the minimum wage, we are talking about people working and paying taxes. The idea of tax incentives to increase a paycheck, much like ObamaCare, is derivative from Republicans.
DJ, I'll be the first to say, I lean more right in terms of fiscal responsibility. What I didn't do in that post was say backup FOX, I was simply making it a point that what one might say about a single outlet, might also be applied to absolute left leaning outlets. You'll have to forgive me, It's just that I don't see the same reaction to the left leaning posters who reference their links to admitted left leaning sights. If I have missed it, I would be the first to admit it. Regardless this is simply a site for opinion and full of to many people that take themselves way too seriously.
It is interesting that you responded to me, so curiously, you must have taken something serious.
I spent the last two years of the Bush presidency advocating for his foreign policies and debating with posters in here on those. Similarly, I have called the Reagan/Haig foreign policies great for America. These are just two examples.
Quote Originally Posted by potter36:
DJ, I'll be the first to say, I lean more right in terms of fiscal responsibility. What I didn't do in that post was say backup FOX, I was simply making it a point that what one might say about a single outlet, might also be applied to absolute left leaning outlets. You'll have to forgive me, It's just that I don't see the same reaction to the left leaning posters who reference their links to admitted left leaning sights. If I have missed it, I would be the first to admit it. Regardless this is simply a site for opinion and full of to many people that take themselves way too seriously.
It is interesting that you responded to me, so curiously, you must have taken something serious.
I spent the last two years of the Bush presidency advocating for his foreign policies and debating with posters in here on those. Similarly, I have called the Reagan/Haig foreign policies great for America. These are just two examples.
I couldn't be more opposed to a minimum wage, much less an increase to the one we already have. Minimum wages once had a role, like unions. Today, both are unnecessary and financial burdens to employers. I own a restaurant and the only employees I have making minimum wage are teenagers. In 15 years of running my business, I have had very few teenagers who were worth more than minimum wage when they started. Kids working their first job need more training and direction than adults working the same position. Forcing me to pay my employees more per hour will result in there being less hours available. It's simple math. Either I take a pay cut, or we run with fewer hours on the clock. If we lived in Fantasy Land, I would double everyone's pay just to be nice. However we don't, so who do these guys think is supposed to come up with the extra cash? Anyone can be benevolent when they are using someone else's money! I love how the rich politicians who sit on the boards of tax friendly corporations come up with these ideas. Those guys don't have employees making the minimum. All this does is squeeze the small business owner, who already takes it in the seat from a tax point of view. I'll end with something I have observed first hand in my business. If you are an adult making minimum wage, there are a multitude of decisions you have made in life that are more responsible for your situation than me! That same decision making process will prohibit any wage increase from raising that person's quality of life in the long run. You don't have to agree with me, but the sample size I have seen is big enough for me to say that with confidence.
I couldn't be more opposed to a minimum wage, much less an increase to the one we already have. Minimum wages once had a role, like unions. Today, both are unnecessary and financial burdens to employers. I own a restaurant and the only employees I have making minimum wage are teenagers. In 15 years of running my business, I have had very few teenagers who were worth more than minimum wage when they started. Kids working their first job need more training and direction than adults working the same position. Forcing me to pay my employees more per hour will result in there being less hours available. It's simple math. Either I take a pay cut, or we run with fewer hours on the clock. If we lived in Fantasy Land, I would double everyone's pay just to be nice. However we don't, so who do these guys think is supposed to come up with the extra cash? Anyone can be benevolent when they are using someone else's money! I love how the rich politicians who sit on the boards of tax friendly corporations come up with these ideas. Those guys don't have employees making the minimum. All this does is squeeze the small business owner, who already takes it in the seat from a tax point of view. I'll end with something I have observed first hand in my business. If you are an adult making minimum wage, there are a multitude of decisions you have made in life that are more responsible for your situation than me! That same decision making process will prohibit any wage increase from raising that person's quality of life in the long run. You don't have to agree with me, but the sample size I have seen is big enough for me to say that with confidence.
It is refreshing when someone with real life experience explains how economics actually work. Saying that, it won't change anyone's mind.
At least a year ago in a thread similar to this one I asked the people (who were for raising the min wage) if they worked in the private sector and were responsible for employees and a budget. I was almost banned from Covers for asking that question.
Kid:
It is refreshing when someone with real life experience explains how economics actually work. Saying that, it won't change anyone's mind.
At least a year ago in a thread similar to this one I asked the people (who were for raising the min wage) if they worked in the private sector and were responsible for employees and a budget. I was almost banned from Covers for asking that question.
It is refreshing when someone with real life experience explains how economics actually work. Saying that, it won't change anyone's mind.
At least a year ago in a thread similar to this one I asked the people (who were for raising the min wage) if they worked in the private sector and were responsible for employees and a budget. I was almost banned from Covers for asking that question.
If you want a real clear understanding of the falsities of the argument above, reread post five and check the associative links.
Warning though..its not for the feeble minded.
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:
Kid:
It is refreshing when someone with real life experience explains how economics actually work. Saying that, it won't change anyone's mind.
At least a year ago in a thread similar to this one I asked the people (who were for raising the min wage) if they worked in the private sector and were responsible for employees and a budget. I was almost banned from Covers for asking that question.
If you want a real clear understanding of the falsities of the argument above, reread post five and check the associative links.
I came to a couple of conclusions. To say that a price setting scheme will have no resulting effect in the overall market is silly. Just not possible.
Setting the price of labor is a great way to create real inflation to adjust to the new market forces.
If you want to spur inflation it is a great idea. Shinzo Abe of Japan knows this well, and that is why he announced wage hikes. He has been trying to fight off deflation and spur inflation since he took office.
That being said, there are markets where a higher minimum wage would work. New York CITY, Washington DC and most metropolitan areas. The new price of goods and services can be easily absorbed into areas with a higher average income.
The wage hike in Seattle can be easily absorbed by people that can pay a little bit more for goods and services. It would not fare as well in Detroit Michigan, Sparta WI or throughout Appalachia.
People that are in favor of across the board raises in minimum wage will take the example of very affluent areas, or special case to help their point.
There is a stronger demand for fast food workers in some parts of North Dakota. Because of the gas/oil business that is booming there is a huge draw on local labor markets to man the equipment and work on rigs, these jobs pay quite well. It is a gold rush 6 figure salaries for people with a high school education. I actually almost left WV last year to go to a job out there, but decided to go back to school. That being said, the fast food workers make more, because they can not find help due to the prosperity in the community.
I am sure it is the same in Beverly Hills. (if they have fast food).
the point I am trying to make is that there are some communities that could bear a rise in the price of labor. I think many of these communities have already found that they will not get labor for minmum wage. Here in Morgantown, WV I have found that most fast food workers make either $8.50 or $9.00/hr. The market has dictated that the lowest jobs be raised from minimum wage because of other opportunities etc.
If we must have a minimum wage in this country it should be dictated by more than the arbitrary whims of what people would LIKE to be paid. There has to be some economic soundness to price distribution, especially in the labor market.
I read your links in post five.
I came to a couple of conclusions. To say that a price setting scheme will have no resulting effect in the overall market is silly. Just not possible.
Setting the price of labor is a great way to create real inflation to adjust to the new market forces.
If you want to spur inflation it is a great idea. Shinzo Abe of Japan knows this well, and that is why he announced wage hikes. He has been trying to fight off deflation and spur inflation since he took office.
That being said, there are markets where a higher minimum wage would work. New York CITY, Washington DC and most metropolitan areas. The new price of goods and services can be easily absorbed into areas with a higher average income.
The wage hike in Seattle can be easily absorbed by people that can pay a little bit more for goods and services. It would not fare as well in Detroit Michigan, Sparta WI or throughout Appalachia.
People that are in favor of across the board raises in minimum wage will take the example of very affluent areas, or special case to help their point.
There is a stronger demand for fast food workers in some parts of North Dakota. Because of the gas/oil business that is booming there is a huge draw on local labor markets to man the equipment and work on rigs, these jobs pay quite well. It is a gold rush 6 figure salaries for people with a high school education. I actually almost left WV last year to go to a job out there, but decided to go back to school. That being said, the fast food workers make more, because they can not find help due to the prosperity in the community.
I am sure it is the same in Beverly Hills. (if they have fast food).
the point I am trying to make is that there are some communities that could bear a rise in the price of labor. I think many of these communities have already found that they will not get labor for minmum wage. Here in Morgantown, WV I have found that most fast food workers make either $8.50 or $9.00/hr. The market has dictated that the lowest jobs be raised from minimum wage because of other opportunities etc.
If we must have a minimum wage in this country it should be dictated by more than the arbitrary whims of what people would LIKE to be paid. There has to be some economic soundness to price distribution, especially in the labor market.
I came to a couple of conclusions. To say that a price setting scheme will have no resulting effect in the overall market is silly. Just not possible.
Setting the price of labor is a great way to create real inflation to adjust to the new market forces.
If you want to spur inflation it is a great idea. Shinzo Abe of Japan knows this well, and that is why he announced wage hikes. He has been trying to fight off deflation and spur inflation since he took office.
That being said, there are markets where a higher minimum wage would work. New York CITY, Washington DC and most metropolitan areas. The new price of goods and services can be easily absorbed into areas with a higher average income.
The wage hike in Seattle can be easily absorbed by people that can pay a little bit more for goods and services. It would not fare as well in Detroit Michigan, Sparta WI or throughout Appalachia.
People that are in favor of across the board raises in minimum wage will take the example of very affluent areas, or special case to help their point.
There is a stronger demand for fast food workers in some parts of North Dakota. Because of the gas/oil business that is booming there is a huge draw on local labor markets to man the equipment and work on rigs, these jobs pay quite well. It is a gold rush 6 figure salaries for people with a high school education. I actually almost left WV last year to go to a job out there, but decided to go back to school. That being said, the fast food workers make more, because they can not find help due to the prosperity in the community.
I am sure it is the same in Beverly Hills. (if they have fast food).
the point I am trying to make is that there are some communities that could bear a rise in the price of labor. I think many of these communities have already found that they will not get labor for minmum wage. Here in Morgantown, WV I have found that most fast food workers make either $8.50 or $9.00/hr. The market has dictated that the lowest jobs be raised from minimum wage because of other opportunities etc.
If we must have a minimum wage in this country it should be dictated by more than the arbitrary whims of what people would LIKE to be paid. There has to be some economic soundness to price distribution, especially in the labor market.
You should teach your right wing brethren how to forumulate a cohesive argument. Well done. I'm surprinsingly impressed.
The issue you raise is one that could exist for anything involving finances. As always, some communities/people/businesses could withstand the rate increase, some could not. The question, and the article, point to the overall impact/effect.
This is my point as well, and it cuts both ways. The overall positive impact of raising the minimum wage would seem to have little affect on the dire financial straits of the employee.
One of the telling statistics, however, is who is actually paying minimum wage. It is not the mom/pop outfits that likely would struggle with the wage increase.
Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
I read your links in post five.
I came to a couple of conclusions. To say that a price setting scheme will have no resulting effect in the overall market is silly. Just not possible.
Setting the price of labor is a great way to create real inflation to adjust to the new market forces.
If you want to spur inflation it is a great idea. Shinzo Abe of Japan knows this well, and that is why he announced wage hikes. He has been trying to fight off deflation and spur inflation since he took office.
That being said, there are markets where a higher minimum wage would work. New York CITY, Washington DC and most metropolitan areas. The new price of goods and services can be easily absorbed into areas with a higher average income.
The wage hike in Seattle can be easily absorbed by people that can pay a little bit more for goods and services. It would not fare as well in Detroit Michigan, Sparta WI or throughout Appalachia.
People that are in favor of across the board raises in minimum wage will take the example of very affluent areas, or special case to help their point.
There is a stronger demand for fast food workers in some parts of North Dakota. Because of the gas/oil business that is booming there is a huge draw on local labor markets to man the equipment and work on rigs, these jobs pay quite well. It is a gold rush 6 figure salaries for people with a high school education. I actually almost left WV last year to go to a job out there, but decided to go back to school. That being said, the fast food workers make more, because they can not find help due to the prosperity in the community.
I am sure it is the same in Beverly Hills. (if they have fast food).
the point I am trying to make is that there are some communities that could bear a rise in the price of labor. I think many of these communities have already found that they will not get labor for minmum wage. Here in Morgantown, WV I have found that most fast food workers make either $8.50 or $9.00/hr. The market has dictated that the lowest jobs be raised from minimum wage because of other opportunities etc.
If we must have a minimum wage in this country it should be dictated by more than the arbitrary whims of what people would LIKE to be paid. There has to be some economic soundness to price distribution, especially in the labor market.
You should teach your right wing brethren how to forumulate a cohesive argument. Well done. I'm surprinsingly impressed.
The issue you raise is one that could exist for anything involving finances. As always, some communities/people/businesses could withstand the rate increase, some could not. The question, and the article, point to the overall impact/effect.
This is my point as well, and it cuts both ways. The overall positive impact of raising the minimum wage would seem to have little affect on the dire financial straits of the employee.
One of the telling statistics, however, is who is actually paying minimum wage. It is not the mom/pop outfits that likely would struggle with the wage increase.
You should teach your right wing brethren how to forumulate a cohesive argument. Well done. I'm surprinsingly impressed.
The issue you raise is one that could exist for anything involving finances. As always, some communities/people/businesses could withstand the rate increase, some could not. The question, and the article, point to the overall impact/effect.
This is my point as well, and it cuts both ways. The overall positive impact of raising the minimum wage would seem to have little affect on the dire financial straits of the employee.
One of the telling statistics, however, is who is actually paying minimum wage. It is not the mom/pop outfits that likely would struggle with the wage increase.
bullpucky!
You're so full of it.
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
You should teach your right wing brethren how to forumulate a cohesive argument. Well done. I'm surprinsingly impressed.
The issue you raise is one that could exist for anything involving finances. As always, some communities/people/businesses could withstand the rate increase, some could not. The question, and the article, point to the overall impact/effect.
This is my point as well, and it cuts both ways. The overall positive impact of raising the minimum wage would seem to have little affect on the dire financial straits of the employee.
One of the telling statistics, however, is who is actually paying minimum wage. It is not the mom/pop outfits that likely would struggle with the wage increase.
bullpucky!
You're so full of it.
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Speaking of the feeble minded.... . I have to give you credit though. You actually make Canovsp seem like an intellectual.
The funny thing is my post doesn't really differ from the point you are trying to make, except for it being articulate, citing sources and facts and all.
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
bullpucky!
You're so full of it.
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Speaking of the feeble minded.... . I have to give you credit though. You actually make Canovsp seem like an intellectual.
The funny thing is my post doesn't really differ from the point you are trying to make, except for it being articulate, citing sources and facts and all.
Speaking of the feeble minded.... . I have to give you credit though. You actually make Canovsp seem like an intellectual.
The funny thing is my post doesn't really differ from the point you are trying to make, except for it being articulate, citing sources and facts and all.
Since you made the claim, please show all examples in my last post that are inarticulate and give a reason why.
Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
Speaking of the feeble minded.... . I have to give you credit though. You actually make Canovsp seem like an intellectual.
The funny thing is my post doesn't really differ from the point you are trying to make, except for it being articulate, citing sources and facts and all.
Since you made the claim, please show all examples in my last post that are inarticulate and give a reason why.
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Is it a fact that minimum wage jobs are intended for young workers and students or is that a lie?
Where in your post did you answer my question about whether or not you will see people work harder when they get a pay increase?
Do you believe it is a good idea to add costs to the production of goods or services that do not add VALUE? Where is your post in which you deal with that idea?
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:
bullpucky!
You're so full of it.
Rick does a masterful job of expounding in his argument.
However, making the case that minimum wage jobs are only intended for young people and students is plenty good enough.
Advocates for raising minimum wage, including any potential republicans, are clueless as to the impact of goods and services in terms of price and value.
Anyone who thinks its harmless to add ANY cost to produce goods or services that don't add value is an idiot!
Will the people that will get the pay increase suddenly work harder?
What value will employers get for their extra expense?
As Rick stated, that the market in some areas dictated the higher wage for low skilled jobs. The market worked properly!
Is it a fact that minimum wage jobs are intended for young workers and students or is that a lie?
Where in your post did you answer my question about whether or not you will see people work harder when they get a pay increase?
Do you believe it is a good idea to add costs to the production of goods or services that do not add VALUE? Where is your post in which you deal with that idea?
Just as an increase in fuel affects the business cycle so to does a mandated rise in the price of labor. That is not disputed...... I don't think it is.
Just as an increase in fuel affects the business cycle so to does a mandated rise in the price of labor. That is not disputed...... I don't think it is.
The worker- temporarily better off, though benefits will diminish as prices raise to equilibrate the new cost of doing business (more on that later)
The State (Govt Local and FED), Larger take on taxation, we will leave up to debate whether employment rolls will go up or down ( I believe they would necessarily go down, but that is disputed, so I wont take it for granted. People are happy at what they see as positive change, politicians can tout that they "care about the people" (even though they have done nothing but mandated that businesses do not have the right to set their own wages)
The overall economy GDP goes up, Inflation goes Up, Interest rates should go up accordingly. It is harder to borrow money, investment in new ventures goes down, and we pay more for imported goods (mostly all of our goods).
Prices/ inflation Inflation (in all reality) is not really an issue right now. Inflation is kind of a scary boogey monster because our economy is no longer afixed to anything that is rational or sane. the 85 billion dollars we were printing to buy off bad debt never even made it's way into the inflation picture, but something of this magnitude would definitely increase prices and spur inflation. When taking the aggregate CPI and PPI you can not hide the fact that the price of goods is going up across the board. During the WWII era they discounted certain food goods because there were shortages and rations. In the 70's they discounted all energy because of the same reason. Unless they take every single thing out of the picture there will be severe inflation.
If wages were to rise across the board based on the peg of a $15 minimum wage, someone making 50K this year could expect to make 90-110K after the rise.
Don't think that is possible?
Think about a guy that makes 30K today working long hours in a very high stress job. Police officers median pay is about 32-35K (starting out). Now imagine that he could make the same living working 9-5 as a Wal Mart greeter.
There is a pull to lower intensity jobs. To stay competitive all jobs will have to raise wages.
Imagine the burden on the federal government as they realize that they have to adjust not only their lowest paying jobs, but their senior and skilled jobs to relate to the new dictates.
There is a world of unintended consequences. these are just a few.
There is not just one consideration.
The worker- temporarily better off, though benefits will diminish as prices raise to equilibrate the new cost of doing business (more on that later)
The State (Govt Local and FED), Larger take on taxation, we will leave up to debate whether employment rolls will go up or down ( I believe they would necessarily go down, but that is disputed, so I wont take it for granted. People are happy at what they see as positive change, politicians can tout that they "care about the people" (even though they have done nothing but mandated that businesses do not have the right to set their own wages)
The overall economy GDP goes up, Inflation goes Up, Interest rates should go up accordingly. It is harder to borrow money, investment in new ventures goes down, and we pay more for imported goods (mostly all of our goods).
Prices/ inflation Inflation (in all reality) is not really an issue right now. Inflation is kind of a scary boogey monster because our economy is no longer afixed to anything that is rational or sane. the 85 billion dollars we were printing to buy off bad debt never even made it's way into the inflation picture, but something of this magnitude would definitely increase prices and spur inflation. When taking the aggregate CPI and PPI you can not hide the fact that the price of goods is going up across the board. During the WWII era they discounted certain food goods because there were shortages and rations. In the 70's they discounted all energy because of the same reason. Unless they take every single thing out of the picture there will be severe inflation.
If wages were to rise across the board based on the peg of a $15 minimum wage, someone making 50K this year could expect to make 90-110K after the rise.
Don't think that is possible?
Think about a guy that makes 30K today working long hours in a very high stress job. Police officers median pay is about 32-35K (starting out). Now imagine that he could make the same living working 9-5 as a Wal Mart greeter.
There is a pull to lower intensity jobs. To stay competitive all jobs will have to raise wages.
Imagine the burden on the federal government as they realize that they have to adjust not only their lowest paying jobs, but their senior and skilled jobs to relate to the new dictates.
There is a world of unintended consequences. these are just a few.
The worker- temporarily better off, though benefits will diminish as prices raise to equilibrate the new cost of doing business (more on that later)
The State (Govt Local and FED), Larger take on taxation, we will leave up to debate whether employment rolls will go up or down ( I believe they would necessarily go down, but that is disputed, so I wont take it for granted. People are happy at what they see as positive change, politicians can tout that they "care about the people" (even though they have done nothing but mandated that businesses do not have the right to set their own wages)
The overall economy GDP goes up, Inflation goes Up, Interest rates should go up accordingly. It is harder to borrow money, investment in new ventures goes down, and we pay more for imported goods (mostly all of our goods).
Prices/ inflation Inflation (in all reality) is not really an issue right now. Inflation is kind of a scary boogey monster because our economy is no longer afixed to anything that is rational or sane. the 85 billion dollars we were printing to buy off bad debt never even made it's way into the inflation picture, but something of this magnitude would definitely increase prices and spur inflation. When taking the aggregate CPI and PPI you can not hide the fact that the price of goods is going up across the board. During the WWII era they discounted certain food goods because there were shortages and rations. In the 70's they discounted all energy because of the same reason. Unless they take every single thing out of the picture there will be severe inflation.
If wages were to rise across the board based on the peg of a $15 minimum wage, someone making 50K this year could expect to make 90-110K after the rise.
Don't think that is possible?
Think about a guy that makes 30K today working long hours in a very high stress job. Police officers median pay is about 32-35K (starting out). Now imagine that he could make the same living working 9-5 as a Wal Mart greeter.
There is a pull to lower intensity jobs. To stay competitive all jobs will have to raise wages.
Imagine the burden on the federal government as they realize that they have to adjust not only their lowest paying jobs, but their senior and skilled jobs to relate to the new dictates.
There is a world of unintended consequences. these are just a few.
I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. Again, however, this fails to denote that the majority of minimum wage jobs were one would see an increase are not companies that would be detrmentally impacted by the increase in wages.
As for post 40, the subjective motivations of the employee are not the issue at play. It is the financial pros and cons of increasing wage.
Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
There is not just one consideration.
The worker- temporarily better off, though benefits will diminish as prices raise to equilibrate the new cost of doing business (more on that later)
The State (Govt Local and FED), Larger take on taxation, we will leave up to debate whether employment rolls will go up or down ( I believe they would necessarily go down, but that is disputed, so I wont take it for granted. People are happy at what they see as positive change, politicians can tout that they "care about the people" (even though they have done nothing but mandated that businesses do not have the right to set their own wages)
The overall economy GDP goes up, Inflation goes Up, Interest rates should go up accordingly. It is harder to borrow money, investment in new ventures goes down, and we pay more for imported goods (mostly all of our goods).
Prices/ inflation Inflation (in all reality) is not really an issue right now. Inflation is kind of a scary boogey monster because our economy is no longer afixed to anything that is rational or sane. the 85 billion dollars we were printing to buy off bad debt never even made it's way into the inflation picture, but something of this magnitude would definitely increase prices and spur inflation. When taking the aggregate CPI and PPI you can not hide the fact that the price of goods is going up across the board. During the WWII era they discounted certain food goods because there were shortages and rations. In the 70's they discounted all energy because of the same reason. Unless they take every single thing out of the picture there will be severe inflation.
If wages were to rise across the board based on the peg of a $15 minimum wage, someone making 50K this year could expect to make 90-110K after the rise.
Don't think that is possible?
Think about a guy that makes 30K today working long hours in a very high stress job. Police officers median pay is about 32-35K (starting out). Now imagine that he could make the same living working 9-5 as a Wal Mart greeter.
There is a pull to lower intensity jobs. To stay competitive all jobs will have to raise wages.
Imagine the burden on the federal government as they realize that they have to adjust not only their lowest paying jobs, but their senior and skilled jobs to relate to the new dictates.
There is a world of unintended consequences. these are just a few.
I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. Again, however, this fails to denote that the majority of minimum wage jobs were one would see an increase are not companies that would be detrmentally impacted by the increase in wages.
As for post 40, the subjective motivations of the employee are not the issue at play. It is the financial pros and cons of increasing wage.
By the way DJ, I choose to believe the people directly effected, like the examples I provided in Post #1 (I don't know if you opened the link or not) or The Kid's example in post #29, as opposed to your examples, who are university professors and government bureaucrats.
I equate this argument to the Affordable Care Act argument. You say Obamacare is good policy because Obama, Democrats, and economics professors say it is good policy. I say Obamacare is bad policy because doctors, business owners, and the people losing their coverage (you know, the people effected) say it is bad policy.
By the way DJ, I choose to believe the people directly effected, like the examples I provided in Post #1 (I don't know if you opened the link or not) or The Kid's example in post #29, as opposed to your examples, who are university professors and government bureaucrats.
I equate this argument to the Affordable Care Act argument. You say Obamacare is good policy because Obama, Democrats, and economics professors say it is good policy. I say Obamacare is bad policy because doctors, business owners, and the people losing their coverage (you know, the people effected) say it is bad policy.
By the way DJ, I choose to believe the people directly effected, like the examples I provided in Post #1 (I don't know if you opened the link or not) or The Kid's example in post #29, as opposed to your examples, who are university professors and government bureaucrats.
I equate this argument to the Affordable Care Act argument. You say Obamacare is good policy because Obama, Democrats, and economics professors say it is good policy. I say Obamacare is bad policy because doctors, business owners, and the people losing their coverage (you know, the people effected) say it is bad policy.
So a study completed by analyzing business profits in correlation to expenditures is trumped by some dude who posts something on a gambling website that you happen to agree with.
As for ObamaCare, I can also link thousands doctors, business owners, and people who will report that the past health insurance policy was not sustainable. Just as you rely upon Faux for all your news, you ignore any other possible points of view. Its called feeble mind syndrome.
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:
By the way DJ, I choose to believe the people directly effected, like the examples I provided in Post #1 (I don't know if you opened the link or not) or The Kid's example in post #29, as opposed to your examples, who are university professors and government bureaucrats.
I equate this argument to the Affordable Care Act argument. You say Obamacare is good policy because Obama, Democrats, and economics professors say it is good policy. I say Obamacare is bad policy because doctors, business owners, and the people losing their coverage (you know, the people effected) say it is bad policy.
So a study completed by analyzing business profits in correlation to expenditures is trumped by some dude who posts something on a gambling website that you happen to agree with.
As for ObamaCare, I can also link thousands doctors, business owners, and people who will report that the past health insurance policy was not sustainable. Just as you rely upon Faux for all your news, you ignore any other possible points of view. Its called feeble mind syndrome.
Who are those business owners that love Minimum wage or Obamacare?
Who are those doctors that love Obamacare? Is it the ones that were standing behind him in the Rose Garden the day he had that press conference? They were in such a rush to get to the White House they didn't have time to take off their lab coats?
Wait until he reads the thread I just made about Socialism Doesn't Work. His Pampers are going to get spoiled.
Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
# 6. ) You heard that on Faux News.
You beat me to it.
I'm going to talk to you Slim in place of DJ.
Who are those business owners that love Minimum wage or Obamacare?
Who are those doctors that love Obamacare? Is it the ones that were standing behind him in the Rose Garden the day he had that press conference? They were in such a rush to get to the White House they didn't have time to take off their lab coats?
Wait until he reads the thread I just made about Socialism Doesn't Work. His Pampers are going to get spoiled.
Who are those business owners that love Minimum wage or Obamacare?
Who are those doctors that love Obamacare? Is it the ones that were standing behind him in the Rose Garden the day he had that press conference? They were in such a rush to get to the White House they didn't have time to take off their lab coats?
Wait until he reads the thread I just made about Socialism Doesn't Work. His Pampers are going to get spoiled.
As for ObamaCare, it is more about the system that existed before. It will be years before there is any determination as to the effectiveness of the changes. The sole factor will be if unpaid medical expenses were reduced.
I realize that anyone who would not share your view must be biased.
I don't read your cut and paste threads. Just as reading your posts, there is nothing I can learn from you.
Quote Originally Posted by canovsp:
You beat me to it.
I'm going to talk to you Slim in place of DJ.
Who are those business owners that love Minimum wage or Obamacare?
Who are those doctors that love Obamacare? Is it the ones that were standing behind him in the Rose Garden the day he had that press conference? They were in such a rush to get to the White House they didn't have time to take off their lab coats?
Wait until he reads the thread I just made about Socialism Doesn't Work. His Pampers are going to get spoiled.
As for ObamaCare, it is more about the system that existed before. It will be years before there is any determination as to the effectiveness of the changes. The sole factor will be if unpaid medical expenses were reduced.
I realize that anyone who would not share your view must be biased.
I don't read your cut and paste threads. Just as reading your posts, there is nothing I can learn from you.
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