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    All Forums | Politics

    Taking a sober look at the 2016 election

    zelo123
    SarasotaSlim
    thirdperson
    sundance
    dl36
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 229
    Posts: 8
     
    zelo123
    zelo123
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: May, 2014
    Posts: 5289
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 6:29 AM ET #1

    The 2016 elections are exciting, fast changing, complex and volatile. We need constant updating and a sober estimate of developments and trends. This includes an accurate assessment of the class and social balance of forces, the motion of the electorate overall and the dynamics within both the Democratic and Republican Parties.

    I want to raise a few cautions and challenges.

    Strategic policy
    First, we can’t ever lose sight of the strategic policy guiding our work: defeat the extreme right and GOP, its oligarchic backers, defend the presidency and break the GOP grip on Congress, statehouses and governorships.

    In addition we must work at ensuring attempts to appointment extremist, pro-segregationist justices to the U.S. Supreme Court are blocked.

    Whatever the outcome in the Democratic primaries we will contribute to building unity of a broad left-center, multi-class, multi-racial, male-female, multi-generational alliance of forces for the general election.

    Building such a multi-class alliance that includes the Democratic Party establishment or corporate wing will be a greater challenge if Sanders is nominated, but not impossible.

    We have to continue to convey our anti-extreme right strategy to the broader movement, especially the first time and young voters, so that no matter the nominee, all will join in the general election mobilization.

    Without question there are serious problems and weaknesses with the Clinton campaign. Clinton carries a lot of historic baggage including her ties to Wall Street, hawkishness on foreign policy, etc. It is so obviously unseemly and tone deaf to accept such large “speaking” fees from Wall Street. But we know this already.

    In addition, there are the new low-level red-baiting attacks coming from Democratic National Committee and Clinton surrogates.

    But this doesn’t reflect everything. On all the major democratic issues and demands, i.e. collective bargaining rights, racial and gender equity, climate change, immigration reform, etc., Clinton is on the right side.

    On the other hand, among some of Sanders’s supporters there is a “Bernie or Bust” mentality. They have declared they will sit out the elections if Clinton is the nominee. This is not the dominant trend but it’s a problem among those who see the Sanders campaign as a way to bash the Democratic Party.

    Sanders doesn’t share this view and has handled the efforts to turn him against Hillary very well. Sanders also appreciates the right danger and will be part of the anti-right coalition even if he loses, as will President Obama. This is important because there are pressures on us to abandon our balanced strategic approach.

    Strengthening the progressive forces
    In addition, we should be part of ensuring the broad people’s coalition led by labor and its allies, has a decisive impact on the depth of understanding of what’s at stake, shaping the key issues and organizing the grassroots mobilization.

    This will have a decisive impact on the election outcome, one that puts this movement in a strengthened position to fight in the post election period under more favorable circumstances.

    This includes building the size and influence of the left and progressive forces within the coalition. The Sanders campaign can play a key role in strengthening the influence of the left.

    Emphasizing the issues
    We have to continue to emphasize the issues, promoting the best of both Sanders and Clinton, especially the most advanced positions. For example, there is growing discussion among the candidates about a financial transaction tax on Wall Street.

    We will continue to raise differences with and criticisms of both candidates.

    Anyone who viewed the debates sees radically different directions for the country. There are big differences between the Clinton and Sanders campaigns: Clinton’s program is within the traditional bounds of the Democratic Party. Sanders’s program is transformational and radical.

    Yet, to the extent the election is fought out on the economic and social issues advanced by Sanders, Clinton, O’Malley and President Obama, the outcome will be more favorable.

    Unpredictability
    We should avoid getting carried away with momentary developments. We shouldn’t see trends based solely on what’s happening in Iowa and New Hampshire and extrapolate.

    Once the race moves on to South Carolina, Nevada and beyond the dynamics could change because the demographics are different. On the other hand, if Clinton loses both IA and NH and Sanders gains new momentum, the race could take a new turn.

    Many unforeseen events can intrude fundamentally altering the dynamics, i.e. a terrorist attack, economic downturn or the entrance of a new candidate into the race (e.g. Michael Bloomberg).

    We should beware of polls. They are being cherry picked by each campaign and their supporters.

    Certainly Bernie Sanders is surging. There is a growing and energetic movement backing this 74-year-old rumpled self-described democratic socialist. This is an extraordinary moment.

    The Clinton campaign foresees a national campaign lasting into April.

    Can Sanders beat Trump by larger margin? Maybe, but he hasn’t been subject to same vilification as Clinton for last 30 years and the subject of an all out assault by the GOP and right-wing media.

    There are some indications the GOP would prefer to face Sanders in the general election. In Iowa, Karl Rove’s PAC American Crossroads has played up Clinton’s Wall Street ties with the hope of weakening her. Another right-wing PAC is highlighting Sanders’s tax the rich proposals.

    https://www.cpusa.org/article/taking-a-sober-look-at-the-2016-election/

    The Dallas Morning News joins the Communist Party in endorsing Hillary Clinton.

    You can't make this stuff up!                        

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    The 2016 elections are exciting, fast changing, complex and volatile. We need constant updating and a sober estimate of developments and trends. This includes an accurate assessment of the class and social balance of forces, the motion of the electorate overall and the dynamics within both the Democratic and Republican Parties.

    I want to raise a few cautions and challenges.

    Strategic policy
    First, we can’t ever lose sight of the strategic policy guiding our work: defeat the extreme right and GOP, its oligarchic backers, defend the presidency and break the GOP grip on Congress, statehouses and governorships.

    In addition we must work at ensuring attempts to appointment extremist, pro-segregationist justices to the U.S. Supreme Court are blocked.

    Whatever the outcome in the Democratic primaries we will contribute to building unity of a broad left-center, multi-class, multi-racial, male-female, multi-generational alliance of forces for the general election.

    Building such a multi-class alliance that includes the Democratic Party establishment or corporate wing will be a greater challenge if Sanders is nominated, but not impossible.

    We have to continue to convey our anti-extreme right strategy to the broader movement, especially the first time and young voters, so that no matter the nominee, all will join in the general election mobilization.

    Without question there are serious problems and weaknesses with the Clinton campaign. Clinton carries a lot of historic baggage including her ties to Wall Street, hawkishness on foreign policy, etc. It is so obviously unseemly and tone deaf to accept such large “speaking” fees from Wall Street. But we know this already.

    In addition, there are the new low-level red-baiting attacks coming from Democratic National Committee and Clinton surrogates.

    But this doesn’t reflect everything. On all the major democratic issues and demands, i.e. collective bargaining rights, racial and gender equity, climate change, immigration reform, etc., Clinton is on the right side.

    On the other hand, among some of Sanders’s supporters there is a “Bernie or Bust” mentality. They have declared they will sit out the elections if Clinton is the nominee. This is not the dominant trend but it’s a problem among those who see the Sanders campaign as a way to bash the Democratic Party.

    Sanders doesn’t share this view and has handled the efforts to turn him against Hillary very well. Sanders also appreciates the right danger and will be part of the anti-right coalition even if he loses, as will President Obama. This is important because there are pressures on us to abandon our balanced strategic approach.

    Strengthening the progressive forces
    In addition, we should be part of ensuring the broad people’s coalition led by labor and its allies, has a decisive impact on the depth of understanding of what’s at stake, shaping the key issues and organizing the grassroots mobilization.

    This will have a decisive impact on the election outcome, one that puts this movement in a strengthened position to fight in the post election period under more favorable circumstances.

    This includes building the size and influence of the left and progressive forces within the coalition. The Sanders campaign can play a key role in strengthening the influence of the left.

    Emphasizing the issues
    We have to continue to emphasize the issues, promoting the best of both Sanders and Clinton, especially the most advanced positions. For example, there is growing discussion among the candidates about a financial transaction tax on Wall Street.

    We will continue to raise differences with and criticisms of both candidates.

    Anyone who viewed the debates sees radically different directions for the country. There are big differences between the Clinton and Sanders campaigns: Clinton’s program is within the traditional bounds of the Democratic Party. Sanders’s program is transformational and radical.

    Yet, to the extent the election is fought out on the economic and social issues advanced by Sanders, Clinton, O’Malley and President Obama, the outcome will be more favorable.

    Unpredictability
    We should avoid getting carried away with momentary developments. We shouldn’t see trends based solely on what’s happening in Iowa and New Hampshire and extrapolate.

    Once the race moves on to South Carolina, Nevada and beyond the dynamics could change because the demographics are different. On the other hand, if Clinton loses both IA and NH and Sanders gains new momentum, the race could take a new turn.

    Many unforeseen events can intrude fundamentally altering the dynamics, i.e. a terrorist attack, economic downturn or the entrance of a new candidate into the race (e.g. Michael Bloomberg).

    We should beware of polls. They are being cherry picked by each campaign and their supporters.

    Certainly Bernie Sanders is surging. There is a growing and energetic movement backing this 74-year-old rumpled self-described democratic socialist. This is an extraordinary moment.

    The Clinton campaign foresees a national campaign lasting into April.

    Can Sanders beat Trump by larger margin? Maybe, but he hasn’t been subject to same vilification as Clinton for last 30 years and the subject of an all out assault by the GOP and right-wing media.

    There are some indications the GOP would prefer to face Sanders in the general election. In Iowa, Karl Rove’s PAC American Crossroads has played up Clinton’s Wall Street ties with the hope of weakening her. Another right-wing PAC is highlighting Sanders’s tax the rich proposals.

    https://www.cpusa.org/article/taking-a-sober-look-at-the-2016-election/

    The Dallas Morning News joins the Communist Party in endorsing Hillary Clinton.

    You can't make this stuff up!                        

     
    SarasotaSlim
    SarasotaSlim
    Covers Rehab
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2007
    Posts: 35543
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 7:05 AM ET #2

    Communist Party in endorsing Hillary Clinton ?

    How can this happen, I haven't hear a word about it on ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC ,CNN,political.com,Washington Post,Fastcheck .org,The Dailybeast,Crooksandliars,TheRoot, USNews,USAToday,Bloomberg.com ,NPR,NewYorker.com and The NYTimes...................but they All reported when David Duke endorsed Donald Trump for president.....

    Example of contradictory standards in the media...
    Reply
    Communist Party in endorsing Hillary Clinton ?

    How can this happen, I haven't hear a word about it on ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC ,CNN,political.com,Washington Post,Fastcheck .org,The Dailybeast,Crooksandliars,TheRoot, USNews,USAToday,Bloomberg.com ,NPR,NewYorker.com and The NYTimes...................but they All reported when David Duke endorsed Donald Trump for president.....

    Example of contradictory standards in the media...
     
    thirdperson
    thirdperson
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2005
    Posts: 9499
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 10:40 AM ET #3

    Historically, Dallas morning newspaper favors republicans.  But this is the first time that a democrat is endorsed  since 1940 because Trump is unfit to be president.  Dallas news mirror Texas which is increasingly becoming more pro democrat.
    Reply
    Historically, Dallas morning newspaper favors republicans.  But this is the first time that a democrat is endorsed  since 1940 because Trump is unfit to be president.  Dallas news mirror Texas which is increasingly becoming more pro democrat.
     
    sundance
    sundance
    MVP
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2002
    Posts: 16806
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 12:51 PM ET #4

    Make America Great Again! Tired of being embarrassed.
    Reply
    Make America Great Again! Tired of being embarrassed.
     
    dl36
    dl36
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2003
    Posts: 27850
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 3:10 PM ET #5

    Wow, why is this about democratic primaries and sanders? Can this be more disconnected with actual reality?  Perhaps this a product of a bad cut-paste job?  Maybe the OP is still thinking we are in the primaries.  But the disconnect between his mentality and reality is concerning to say the least.  Always interesting to see how people like this actually think and put together their views and reality. 

    The fact of the matter is that I do not think that Texas and this Dallas news publication is going progressive nor do I even entertain the idea that because they do not endorse trump they must be communist.  

    They have a tradition of being conservative and do not support trump because trump is not a conservative. 

    Trump is the Biggest and Most Sucessful RINO ever. 

    Zelo, if you can tell me a bigger and more successful RINO, please let me know.  You lack of a response or someone else answering will be interpreted as you agreeing with my statements. 

    The issue here is principles. That trump's principles or lack there of is not what this conservative Dallas publication stands for.  The problem is that the GOP majority voting base communicated with their votes that they do not believe in these conservative values as they had more than one historically conservative candidate that would have brought conservative values to the Oval Office and the GOP majority voting base communicated with their ballot that they do not want a conservative with conservative values in the White House.  

    And that is when conservatism died.  Not that the dems or theories of biased media killed it as they never could no matter what they tried.  In the end the only people that could kill conservatism was the GOP majority voting base itself communicating with their votes that conservatism does not work and they don't want it. And rather than completly abandoning the principles of conservatism this Dallas publication is holding to them rather than following the herd of the GOP majority that rejected conservatism. 

    So this is an issue of principles, and not communism.  I don't get how this publication is linked with communism in any way, please explain the logic behind that.  
    Reply
    Wow, why is this about democratic primaries and sanders? Can this be more disconnected with actual reality?  Perhaps this a product of a bad cut-paste job?  Maybe the OP is still thinking we are in the primaries.  But the disconnect between his mentality and reality is concerning to say the least.  Always interesting to see how people like this actually think and put together their views and reality. 

    The fact of the matter is that I do not think that Texas and this Dallas news publication is going progressive nor do I even entertain the idea that because they do not endorse trump they must be communist.  

    They have a tradition of being conservative and do not support trump because trump is not a conservative. 

    Trump is the Biggest and Most Sucessful RINO ever. 

    Zelo, if you can tell me a bigger and more successful RINO, please let me know.  You lack of a response or someone else answering will be interpreted as you agreeing with my statements. 

    The issue here is principles. That trump's principles or lack there of is not what this conservative Dallas publication stands for.  The problem is that the GOP majority voting base communicated with their votes that they do not believe in these conservative values as they had more than one historically conservative candidate that would have brought conservative values to the Oval Office and the GOP majority voting base communicated with their ballot that they do not want a conservative with conservative values in the White House.  

    And that is when conservatism died.  Not that the dems or theories of biased media killed it as they never could no matter what they tried.  In the end the only people that could kill conservatism was the GOP majority voting base itself communicating with their votes that conservatism does not work and they don't want it. And rather than completly abandoning the principles of conservatism this Dallas publication is holding to them rather than following the herd of the GOP majority that rejected conservatism. 

    So this is an issue of principles, and not communism.  I don't get how this publication is linked with communism in any way, please explain the logic behind that.  
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Joined: Jan, 2015
    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 8:34 PM ET #6

    Texas and it's electorate will be in trumps column trump must retake Virginia to not end with Romney's fate.
    He can lose the popular or possible both trump and Hillary have less than a majority. Only thing matters is the electoral college. Trump needs Ohio and Virginia and another small state
    Or Ohio Florida texas Virginia the south west and Midwest farm belt and Trump will win. He needs everything Romney won and Virginia and or Florida or Ohio.
    ......
    Reply
    Texas and it's electorate will be in trumps column trump must retake Virginia to not end with Romney's fate.
    He can lose the popular or possible both trump and Hillary have less than a majority. Only thing matters is the electoral college. Trump needs Ohio and Virginia and another small state
    Or Ohio Florida texas Virginia the south west and Midwest farm belt and Trump will win. He needs everything Romney won and Virginia and or Florida or Ohio.
    ......
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 8:41 PM ET #7

    To logistical take this based on the odds given in European gambling Hillary win with hundred point lead the closest odds lie within these states if 50 electoral votes shifted trump could win within the smallest margin.
    Reply
    To logistical take this based on the odds given in European gambling Hillary win with hundred point lead the closest odds lie within these states if 50 electoral votes shifted trump could win within the smallest margin.
     
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
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    Posted: Sep. 10, 2016 - 9:31 PM ET #8

    Sorry miscalculated. Trump needs Ohio. Virginia Florida and either new mexico or Nevada to turn red.
    Reply
    Sorry miscalculated. Trump needs Ohio. Virginia Florida and either new mexico or Nevada to turn red.
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