Obama economic recovery plans starting to work

why you guys put the need of huge corporations ahead of the needs of the workers is beyond me....

o wait, no it's not...it's the new 'American Dream'

[Quote: Originally Posted by KOAJ] the only thing that works is a true free market. no fed, no invisible hand of government...just buyers and sellers deciding on a price for a good or service using sound money minted and coined by congressional order...not federal reserve notes printed from thin air.

true free markets never have booms or busts. those are caused by expansion and contraction in money supplies (rate fluctuations)...fed lowers rates, money is cheaper. fed raises, money is more expensive.

the free market can decide rates better than government or the fed. of course some regulation would be needed to prevent collusion but beyond that, people dont need much. self regulation or peer regulation will work fine.

dont think we've ever had a free market either. more corporatism than anything else

end the fed, get yourself a free market. keep the fed, endless inflation, currency devaluation, and income taxes to fund the Federal Reserve

i beg any of you...find a flaw in my arguments; on the merits of course...name calling shows me nothing. i dont answer to neo-con or republican...im neither

[/Quote]

I'll play..... could spend a week on this but your whole "outlook" actually seems like it comes from a little old lady clipping coupons or something...... It's like the goal is to drive prices and the economy into the ground so you can save a few bucks on a house or something????

Mikael99 started off with a very good point.  The "temporary" government intervention "appears" to stop a complete free fall in the system.

Pretty sure most banks on Tarp money don't want anybody else to report to and will find a way to pay those funds back ASAP.  Q1 profits are a little shockingly high and I doubt they would "want" to show high profits in the middle of this bailout mess.

The big picture is that a smart and well run Gov will know when to step in and when to step out.  In this case, it clearly looks like they did the right thing.

All of what Hugo said is spot on... and Disco.

The "new" point that Hugo brought up is that GOP supporters are hard to find these days.  They are all libertarians or something.  Kinda funny actually.

Think I even caught Glen Beck pretending to be a libertarian the other day

 

 

 

kinda like the Republicans "Regulations? WE Don't Need NO Stinking Regulations!!!" ( with a HUGE assist from Clinton's "economic" team)

 

THAT really worked out GREAT!!!

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Nice to see some new faces here in the politics forum.
Please don't be a stranger

Well, I know for fact that I am 100% correct about the housing market, and KOAJ is usually the first in my threads to give a handshake and a tidbit or personal perspective.

As far as betting that by September or October that foreclosure filings will be down, You set some solid parameters and i will bet you that, save anymore bullshit from the government and it's entiteies that foreclosures will increase YOY sept 09 vs. 08 and YOY oct 09 vs 08.

Dime on each ?

ONLY way i lose that bet is if the powers that be come to their senses sooner than later and start the healing process NOW, which would mean too many foreclosures are purged come this Fall

...and who's alias is this now?

Why are the Lefties so paranoid about aliases? Isn't the president an empty suit too?

Well said Hugo.. you are right about Neocons.

Lets go back to Koaj and others argument about the truly free market.

The problem with that argument is that it is based on fantasy. It is an idea that may work on paper but it has never been tried in true life.

Why because it is not very easily done. Same with Pure capitalism and communism it is noble ideas on paper but in reality it does not work.

Why you might say.. because when you have to enforce an ideology to real life it demands you have the same perfect conditions as on paper and that does not happen.

Lets say one try to have a true free market, then there will me factors who interfere with it one way or the other.

There might be criminal acts involved, cartels, price hiking, monopoles, backroom door deals , outside events, politics etc.

Therefore what i would like to know from Koaj and his friends is what you suggest to deal with those problems outside just suggesting an idea/ideology that does not work.

Obama are doing something that historically have shown to work. Which is social liberalism. It creates a system that takes into account that unexpected things can happen and that the market are not perfect.

Well that is Koaj's core argument. He only cares about profit and the almighty dollar and nothing else. Like you say the free market is a fantasy.

Which again underscores that the neocons does not have a clue about what to do to fix the problems. They do not have any ideas except something that is not viable.

what else is there?

would you rather hire a man to work for you or pay more to the government to keep this man on the dole?

what good are regulations when the banks own the government, when regulators are asleep, and when government is complicit in the collapse (fed, fannie, freddie, burdonsome taxes, entitlements)?

you should give him 2-1 odds....seriously. i know maybe more than you how wacky things are given where i live v where you live. not as much of a boom in central PA compared to nyc metro/nj shore areas. wife and i do well and with 20% down, these houses are not affordable.

still no luck in my house search be easy. fyi...the short sales are just starting to hit my area's market area as well. will be very fun in 6 months to offer someone 150k below their list and be dead serious. my wife finds my offers insulting so i tell her to stay home when i negotiate

hugo - as someone who just sold their townhouse in a top 20 school area in my state in a very good location, we had 60 showings and 1 offer in 6 weeks. this market is FUCKED! we have a long way to go to find true price discovery nationwide...another 20% at least

the house we looked at saturday was priced at the top of our range...inside was perfect but i would have to level 20+ trees in the backyard, re-sod, re do the driveway, put in a fence. i figure thats 80k worth of work to do it right. we discounted 10% of their list for our starting point offer then deducted what we would have to do to the house. sellers were insulted. i told the seller's agent "when you havent sold in 6 more months, please call me. this is what im willing to pay" and walked out. sellers were crushed b/c they were told they were getting a good offer by my agent. i didnt put that idea in his head

funny thing is that i know some agents in my area and all of their buyers are doing this as well and the sellers are not aggressive enough....our problems will be prolonged. we dont have a real estate problem in this country. we have a problem of "unrealistic sellers"

Be easy, you want to bet me a dime that foreclosures will be up 6 months from now. Yet your proviso is that there be no more government " b-s***" involved. You again prove my point about Neo-Cons, they fail to read and grasp obvious fact in favor of stale ,passe ideology. My whole premise that foreclosures will be down in 6 months is that there will be more government involvement in trying to prevent them. If I wanted to agree with the rest of your free market oligarchs there would be no dispute about a future increase in foreclosures, due to a do nothing philosophy favored by the Neo-Cons.
           Please , I would be happy to wager with you. But your condition is I cant win if there is more government participation in this endeavor, I am betting against myself. Now if you want to bet that there will be more foreclosures in 6 months if the Feds do nothing and leave it to your beloved free market system I would agree with you. But it is obvious, even to the Walter Mitty's of the world that Obama will at least try to not let that happen.

good post