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    All Forums | Politics

    Lech Wałęsa‘s open letter to Donald Trump

    joe pockets
    kcblitzkrieg
    Raiders22
    spockgato
    KellyM_1964
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 169
    Posts: 8
     
    joe pockets
    joe pockets
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2000
    Posts: 5544
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 2:15 PM ET #1

     

    Dear Mr. President,

    We look upon the relations [interactions] in your meeting with President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky with anger and distaste. We see your waiting for him to show respect and gratitude for material help given by USA in exchange for Ukraine fighting Russia as insulting. Gratitute is due to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who spilt their blood in the cause of fighting for a free world. For over eleven years, they fell on the front in the name of these values and for the freedom of their fatherland, which was attacked by Putinite Russia. We don’t understand how a leader of a nation which is the symbol of the free world is unable to see that.

    Us being insulted brought back to us, that the atmosphere in the Oval Office at the time of this conversation reminded us of [the kind of discussions] that the SB [Soviet-era Polish secret police] held in interrogation rooms and Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, on the orders of the Communist political police also explained to us, that they held all the cards and we held none. They demanded for us to stop our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people are suffering due to us [the activities of the Solidarity opposition in the 70ies and 80ies]. They took away our freedom and citizens’ rights, since we didn’t agree to work with the authorities and we didn’t show them gratitude. We are shocked that [Trump] treated Mr. President Vladimir Zelensky similarly.

    The history of 20th century shows that every time when the USA wanted to show distance from democratic values and its European allies, it ended with a threat to [the USA] itself. Woodrow Wilson understood that; he decided to enter the USA into WW I in 1917. FDR also understood that, deciding after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 that the war in defense of the USA won’t be only in the Pacific, but also in Europe [in support of] allies who were attacked by the Third Reich nations.

    We remember that without Pres. Ronald Reagan and American financial involvement, the collapse of the USSR empire [wouldn’t have happened]. Reagan had the understanding that in Soviet Russia and countries colonized by it, millions of enslaved people were suffering, among them thousands of political prisoners, which for their sacrifice in the defense of democratic values, paid with their freedom. His greatness comes from, among other things, that without wavering, he called the USSR the “Evil Empire” and he brought a forthright fight. We won, and a monument to Pres. Reagan stands in near the US Embassy in Warsaw today.

    Mr. President, material help - military and financial - cannot be the equivalent of blood spilt in the name of freedom and independence of Ukraine, Europe, and the entire free world. Human life is priceless, and it cannot be measured financially. Gratitude is needed for those who sacrificed their blood and freedom. For us, the people of “Solidarity”, former Communist political prisoners of the regime serving Soviet Russia, this is clear.

    We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don’t contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits.

    This was the only full, uninterrupted translation I could find but here is one of the many stories about the letter:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/polish-cold-war-hero-walesa-writes-trump-expressing-horror-zelenskiy-spat-2025-03-03/

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

     

    Dear Mr. President,

    We look upon the relations [interactions] in your meeting with President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky with anger and distaste. We see your waiting for him to show respect and gratitude for material help given by USA in exchange for Ukraine fighting Russia as insulting. Gratitute is due to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who spilt their blood in the cause of fighting for a free world. For over eleven years, they fell on the front in the name of these values and for the freedom of their fatherland, which was attacked by Putinite Russia. We don’t understand how a leader of a nation which is the symbol of the free world is unable to see that.

    Us being insulted brought back to us, that the atmosphere in the Oval Office at the time of this conversation reminded us of [the kind of discussions] that the SB [Soviet-era Polish secret police] held in interrogation rooms and Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, on the orders of the Communist political police also explained to us, that they held all the cards and we held none. They demanded for us to stop our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people are suffering due to us [the activities of the Solidarity opposition in the 70ies and 80ies]. They took away our freedom and citizens’ rights, since we didn’t agree to work with the authorities and we didn’t show them gratitude. We are shocked that [Trump] treated Mr. President Vladimir Zelensky similarly.

    The history of 20th century shows that every time when the USA wanted to show distance from democratic values and its European allies, it ended with a threat to [the USA] itself. Woodrow Wilson understood that; he decided to enter the USA into WW I in 1917. FDR also understood that, deciding after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 that the war in defense of the USA won’t be only in the Pacific, but also in Europe [in support of] allies who were attacked by the Third Reich nations.

    We remember that without Pres. Ronald Reagan and American financial involvement, the collapse of the USSR empire [wouldn’t have happened]. Reagan had the understanding that in Soviet Russia and countries colonized by it, millions of enslaved people were suffering, among them thousands of political prisoners, which for their sacrifice in the defense of democratic values, paid with their freedom. His greatness comes from, among other things, that without wavering, he called the USSR the “Evil Empire” and he brought a forthright fight. We won, and a monument to Pres. Reagan stands in near the US Embassy in Warsaw today.

    Mr. President, material help - military and financial - cannot be the equivalent of blood spilt in the name of freedom and independence of Ukraine, Europe, and the entire free world. Human life is priceless, and it cannot be measured financially. Gratitude is needed for those who sacrificed their blood and freedom. For us, the people of “Solidarity”, former Communist political prisoners of the regime serving Soviet Russia, this is clear.

    We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don’t contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits.

    This was the only full, uninterrupted translation I could find but here is one of the many stories about the letter:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/polish-cold-war-hero-walesa-writes-trump-expressing-horror-zelenskiy-spat-2025-03-03/

     
    kcblitzkrieg
    kcblitzkrieg
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2008
    Posts: 8009
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 2:38 PM ET #2

    Leah who??  

    Time is a flat circle....
    Reply

    Leah who??  

     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 34784
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 3:10 PM ET #3

    Lea Wagner

    zoom_Lea_Wagner__2020__SWR_Sport.[kleines_Bild__zoombar_200x400_max._].jpg

    peace_5

    Reply

    Lea Wagner

    zoom_Lea_Wagner__2020__SWR_Sport.[kleines_Bild__zoombar_200x400_max._].jpg

    peace_5

     
    spockgato
    spockgato
    Banned
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    Joined: Apr, 2005
    Posts: 15326
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 3:21 PM ET #4

    I thought he meant that Lech Poznan soccer team . I wasn’t gonna say nothin’ bad about them . They came through for me the last two times . And got both overs too . But the other person I don’t know who he’s talking about . I’ll check it out . 

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
    Reply

    I thought he meant that Lech Poznan soccer team . I wasn’t gonna say nothin’ bad about them . They came through for me the last two times . And got both overs too . But the other person I don’t know who he’s talking about . I’ll check it out . 

     
    Raiders22
    Raiders22
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 34784
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 3:25 PM ET #5

    @spockgato

     Started slow.  But now in clear first!

    an_cheers 

    Reply

    @spockgato

     Started slow.  But now in clear first!

    an_cheers 

     
    KellyM_1964
    KellyM_1964
    MVP
    Participation Meter
    Joined: May, 2009
    Posts: 16793
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 4:42 PM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets:

    Dear Mr. President, We look upon the relations [interactions] in your meeting with President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky with anger and distaste. We see your waiting for him to show respect and gratitude for material help given by USA in exchange for Ukraine fighting Russia as insulting. Gratitute is due to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who spilt their blood in the cause of fighting for a free world. For over eleven years, they fell on the front in the name of these values and for the freedom of their fatherland, which was attacked by Putinite Russia. We don’t understand how a leader of a nation which is the symbol of the free world is unable to see that. Us being insulted brought back to us, that the atmosphere in the Oval Office at the time of this conversation reminded us of [the kind of discussions] that the SB [Soviet-era Polish secret police] held in interrogation rooms and Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, on the orders of the Communist political police also explained to us, that they held all the cards and we held none. They demanded for us to stop our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people are suffering due to us [the activities of the Solidarity opposition in the 70ies and 80ies]. They took away our freedom and citizens’ rights, since we didn’t agree to work with the authorities and we didn’t show them gratitude. We are shocked that [Trump] treated Mr. President Vladimir Zelensky similarly. The history of 20th century shows that every time when the USA wanted to show distance from democratic values and its European allies, it ended with a threat to [the USA] itself. Woodrow Wilson understood that; he decided to enter the USA into WW I in 1917. FDR also understood that, deciding after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 that the war in defense of the USA won’t be only in the Pacific, but also in Europe [in support of] allies who were attacked by the Third Reich nations. We remember that without Pres. Ronald Reagan and American financial involvement, the collapse of the USSR empire [wouldn’t have happened]. Reagan had the understanding that in Soviet Russia and countries colonized by it, millions of enslaved people were suffering, among them thousands of political prisoners, which for their sacrifice in the defense of democratic values, paid with their freedom. His greatness comes from, among other things, that without wavering, he called the USSR the “Evil Empire” and he brought a forthright fight. We won, and a monument to Pres. Reagan stands in near the US Embassy in Warsaw today. Mr. President, material help - military and financial - cannot be the equivalent of blood spilt in the name of freedom and independence of Ukraine, Europe, and the entire free world. Human life is priceless, and it cannot be measured financially. Gratitude is needed for those who sacrificed their blood and freedom. For us, the people of “Solidarity”, former Communist political prisoners of the regime serving Soviet Russia, this is clear. We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don’t contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits. This was the only full, uninterrupted translation I could find but here is one of the many stories about the letter: https://www.reuters.com/world/polish-cold-war-hero-walesa-writes-trump-expressing-horror-zelenskiy-spat-2025-03-03/

     

    peace_5

     

    "I'm the MOST HONEST human being that GOD EVER created!" - Donald "the felon" Trump
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by joe pockets:

    Dear Mr. President, We look upon the relations [interactions] in your meeting with President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky with anger and distaste. We see your waiting for him to show respect and gratitude for material help given by USA in exchange for Ukraine fighting Russia as insulting. Gratitute is due to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who spilt their blood in the cause of fighting for a free world. For over eleven years, they fell on the front in the name of these values and for the freedom of their fatherland, which was attacked by Putinite Russia. We don’t understand how a leader of a nation which is the symbol of the free world is unable to see that. Us being insulted brought back to us, that the atmosphere in the Oval Office at the time of this conversation reminded us of [the kind of discussions] that the SB [Soviet-era Polish secret police] held in interrogation rooms and Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, on the orders of the Communist political police also explained to us, that they held all the cards and we held none. They demanded for us to stop our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people are suffering due to us [the activities of the Solidarity opposition in the 70ies and 80ies]. They took away our freedom and citizens’ rights, since we didn’t agree to work with the authorities and we didn’t show them gratitude. We are shocked that [Trump] treated Mr. President Vladimir Zelensky similarly. The history of 20th century shows that every time when the USA wanted to show distance from democratic values and its European allies, it ended with a threat to [the USA] itself. Woodrow Wilson understood that; he decided to enter the USA into WW I in 1917. FDR also understood that, deciding after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 that the war in defense of the USA won’t be only in the Pacific, but also in Europe [in support of] allies who were attacked by the Third Reich nations. We remember that without Pres. Ronald Reagan and American financial involvement, the collapse of the USSR empire [wouldn’t have happened]. Reagan had the understanding that in Soviet Russia and countries colonized by it, millions of enslaved people were suffering, among them thousands of political prisoners, which for their sacrifice in the defense of democratic values, paid with their freedom. His greatness comes from, among other things, that without wavering, he called the USSR the “Evil Empire” and he brought a forthright fight. We won, and a monument to Pres. Reagan stands in near the US Embassy in Warsaw today. Mr. President, material help - military and financial - cannot be the equivalent of blood spilt in the name of freedom and independence of Ukraine, Europe, and the entire free world. Human life is priceless, and it cannot be measured financially. Gratitude is needed for those who sacrificed their blood and freedom. For us, the people of “Solidarity”, former Communist political prisoners of the regime serving Soviet Russia, this is clear. We appeal to the USA to hold itself to the guarantees, that they gave along with Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which is written an obligation to defend the immovable borders of Ukraine, in exchange for [Ukraine] giving up its nuclear arms. Those guarantees are without conditions: they don’t contain a single word about treating such help as an exchange for commercial benefits. This was the only full, uninterrupted translation I could find but here is one of the many stories about the letter: https://www.reuters.com/world/polish-cold-war-hero-walesa-writes-trump-expressing-horror-zelenskiy-spat-2025-03-03/

     

    peace_5

     

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58436
    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 4:48 PM ET #7

    That entire episode was a nightmare embarrassment to this country. It is not shocking but it is disgusting seeing the leaders of our country spit and stomp on someone and assert that they need to bow down for what has been done in the past. Vance is such a smug stupid punk, he needs to be muzzled and taught some lessons about basic decorum regarding the position and how there is a time and place for shooting off your mouth. Neither he or Trump have a clue about respect and consideration and what is proper with regards to representing the country.

    Even if you feel strongly that Ukraine took from the US (which they did) that is not the venue for trash talking and insulting someone and that is the way a middle school bully acts not the leader of this country.

    Reply

    That entire episode was a nightmare embarrassment to this country. It is not shocking but it is disgusting seeing the leaders of our country spit and stomp on someone and assert that they need to bow down for what has been done in the past. Vance is such a smug stupid punk, he needs to be muzzled and taught some lessons about basic decorum regarding the position and how there is a time and place for shooting off your mouth. Neither he or Trump have a clue about respect and consideration and what is proper with regards to representing the country.

    Even if you feel strongly that Ukraine took from the US (which they did) that is not the venue for trash talking and insulting someone and that is the way a middle school bully acts not the leader of this country.

     
     
    spockgato
    spockgato
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    Posted: Mar. 4, 2025 - 5:21 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    That entire episode was a nightmare embarrassment to this country. It is not shocking but it is disgusting seeing the leaders of our country spit and stomp on someone and assert that they need to bow down for what has been done in the past. Vance is such a smug stupid punk, he needs to be muzzled and taught some lessons about basic decorum regarding the position and how there is a time and place for shooting off your mouth. Neither he or Trump have a clue about respect and consideration and what is proper with regards to representing the country. Even if you feel strongly that Ukraine took from the US (which they did) that is not the venue for trash talking and insulting someone and that is the way a middle school bully acts not the leader of this country.

    fuck yeah you’re right . I thought they handled it incorrectly . You can get the same message across without having to resort to such odd and awkward advances towards conversation . My man Z was spellbound . He looked like DannyBoy trying to get out of his contract with Suge Knight and Death Row Records .

    wallstreetcappers craps in his draws and pees fuckin backwards from his vaj with a squirt.
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    That entire episode was a nightmare embarrassment to this country. It is not shocking but it is disgusting seeing the leaders of our country spit and stomp on someone and assert that they need to bow down for what has been done in the past. Vance is such a smug stupid punk, he needs to be muzzled and taught some lessons about basic decorum regarding the position and how there is a time and place for shooting off your mouth. Neither he or Trump have a clue about respect and consideration and what is proper with regards to representing the country. Even if you feel strongly that Ukraine took from the US (which they did) that is not the venue for trash talking and insulting someone and that is the way a middle school bully acts not the leader of this country.

    fuck yeah you’re right . I thought they handled it incorrectly . You can get the same message across without having to resort to such odd and awkward advances towards conversation . My man Z was spellbound . He looked like DannyBoy trying to get out of his contract with Suge Knight and Death Row Records .

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