Posted:
#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_1wUwzVuIs
No words. 
The party needs to go.
2018 and 2020 can't get here soon enough.
I've had enough of this...
How is the GOP not the party of dipshi*, lunatic, farcical, wingnuts when they say things like this?
Posted:
#3
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_1wUwzVuIs
No words.
The party needs to go.
2018 and 2020 can't get here soon enough.
I've had enough of this...
I will reserve comment on the video, and not start a counter argument by adding literally millions of video's of liberals saying some of the dumbest things ever recorded, but I will pose a question ...
When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
If your response is "Obamacare" you are not intelligent enough for any discussion on the subject.
Please spare me the default line of "millions of more people have health insurance under Obamacare"
That's the equivalent of saying that your boy Bernie would have fixed the cost of higher education by making college free for everyone.
So I will ask again ... When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
bigreds daddy
Posted:
#5
Paul Ryan stumbling through his interview on This Week was too funny... 'but Obamacare' was used a dozen times at least.
He was almost a sympathetic figure after the first failed attempt, now he's just fallen in line with the 'anything but this' crowd. His reply about the video of him bashing ACA from 2009 and how it pertains to this current plan was comical.
Posted:
#6
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:
I will reserve comment on the video, and not start a counter argument by adding literally millions of video's of liberals saying some of the dumbest things ever recorded, but I will pose a question ...
When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
If your response is "Obamacare" you are not intelligent enough for any discussion on the subject.
Please spare me the default line of "millions of more people have health insurance under Obamacare"
That's the equivalent of saying that your boy Bernie would have fixed the cost of higher education by making college free for everyone.
So I will ask again ... When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
Well, the Republicans didn't want Obamacare to work and have done everything in almost all of the states they govern to prevent its implementation to the fullest, along with attempting to block the execution of it in the courts. We don't really know how successful it might have been because Republicans wanted it to fail. They never even wanted to discuss with the Democrats with specific things they believe may have made Obamacare work better. Maybe that might have been useful.
This was the first real attempt at overhauling a system that needs everyone in the risk pool like the other major countries with their healthcare models, along with giving everyone the opportunity to receive care before things spiral and cause people to end up in an emergency room. Don't give me the garbage narrative that the U.S. has a better system than these countries. The U.S. has some of the best doctors in the world but the actual system is not superior.
Instead of focusing on the party whose job it is to actually cobble together a real plan and govern, since I don't know, I would assume that's the current state of affairs given the Republican majorities and president, you're trying to tell us it's the Democrats' fault and don't even want to talk about that Republicans are passing a version of healthcare that'll kill people.
I think that unless the Republicans start putting together an agenda that looks like they can pass bills and solve problems, I'm beginning to suspect my hunch was correct in the past that all they can do is complain, but they really don't know what to do when they're in charge of all the problems. Oh well. GOOD LUCK!
Posted:
#7
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:
I will reserve comment on the video, and not start a counter argument by adding literally millions of video's of liberals saying some of the dumbest things ever recorded, but I will pose a question ...
When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
If your response is "Obamacare" you are not intelligent enough for any discussion on the subject.
Please spare me the default line of "millions of more people have health insurance under Obamacare"
That's the equivalent of saying that your boy Bernie would have fixed the cost of higher education by making college free for everyone.
So I will ask again ... When it comes to healthcare, what has the left done that has worked?
to answer this, i would say a few things. obamacare has been a net benefit for me. i can't imagine i'm the only one.
secondly, i'm not sure why many more people having insurance isn't a good thing, at least for them. if the question is, what have democrats done in healthcare that is good, i think that's a thing that is good. if the question is have they solved it, that doesn't solve it.
but sickness really has the right answer. trump may not have known that healthcare is complicated, as he's said, but everyone else who isn't a f*cking idiot does and to actually make some real progress, both sides have to work together to help with the problem. not only did republicans not help obama, they obstructed him at every opportunity and have been lying and shitting on everything he's done ever since.
the good news (actually it's the bad news, but you get my meaning) is that one party now has complete control of government. they can pass whatever they want. i don't think the right question is what have democrats done that worked. what could they do with the obstruction they faced. the question is what will the party that has total control of government do since they don't have to worry about the same obstruction.
Posted:
#8
Quote Originally Posted by sicknesscity:
Well, the Republicans didn't want Obamacare to work and have done everything in almost all of the states they govern to prevent its implementation to the fullest, along with attempting to block the execution of it in the courts. We don't really know how successful it might have been because Republicans wanted it to fail. They never even wanted to discuss with the Democrats with specific things they believe may have made Obamacare work better. Maybe that might have been useful.
This was the first real attempt at overhauling a system that needs everyone in the risk pool like the other major countries with their healthcare models, along with giving everyone the opportunity to receive care before things spiral and cause people to end up in an emergency room. Don't give me the garbage narrative that the U.S. has a better system than these countries. The U.S. has some of the best doctors in the world but the actual system is not superior.
Instead of focusing on the party whose job it is to actually cobble together a real plan and govern, since I don't know, I would assume that's the current state of affairs given the Republican majorities and president, you're trying to tell us it's the Democrats' fault and don't even want to talk about that Republicans are passing a version of healthcare that'll kill people.
I think that unless the Republicans start putting together an agenda that looks like they can pass bills and solve problems, I'm beginning to suspect my hunch was correct in the past that all they can do is complain, but they really don't know what to do when they're in charge of all the problems. Oh well. GOOD LUCK!
Well, the Republicans didn't want Obamacare to work and have done everything in almost all of the states they govern to prevent its implementation to the fullest, along with attempting to block the execution of it in the courts. We don't really know how successful it might have been because Republicans wanted it to fail. They never even wanted to discuss with the Democrats with specific things they believe may have made Obamacare work better. Maybe that might have been useful.
This was the first real attempt at overhauling a system that needs everyone in the risk pool like the other major countries with their healthcare models, along with giving everyone the opportunity to receive care before things spiral and cause people to end up in an emergency room. Don't give me the garbage narrative that the U.S. has a better system than these countries. The U.S. has some of the best doctors in the world but the actual system is not superior.
Instead of focusing on the party whose job it is to actually cobble together a real plan and govern, since I don't know, I would assume that's the current state of affairs given the Republican majorities and president, you're trying to tell us it's the Democrats' fault and don't even want to talk about that Republicans are passing a version of healthcare that'll kill people.
I think that unless the Republicans start putting together an agenda that looks like they can pass bills and solve problems, I'm beginning to suspect my hunch was correct in the past that all they can do is complain, but they really don't know what to do when they're in charge of all the problems. Oh well. GOOD LUCK!
Thats too rich!
Obama and the dems screwed up when they set up Obamacare from behind closed doors. He said a number of things that were out and out LIES or just didn't materialize.
I If you like your doctor you can keep him.
2. ACA will lower premiums.
3. By the end of my first term I will have passed Universal Health Care.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president and the sentiment from the country would finally agree to allow One Payer System (UHC)
I can't believe the density I'm seeing here.
I hope none of you are trying to become detectives because Helen Keller would make a better one than most in here.
Posted:
#9
setting aside the hillary conspiracy theory stuff, where does this idea come from that obamacare was passed behind closed doors? sounds like a fox news thing?
According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill.
this explains the differences in the two bills as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/politics/obamacare-repeal-of-health-law-republicans.html?_r=1
According to a HELP Committee document about bipartisan aspects of the health reform bill the committee passed July 15, 2009, its final bill included "161 Republican amendments," including "several amendments from Senators [Mike] Enzi [R-WY], [Tom] Coburn [R-OK], [Pat] Roberts [R-KS] and others [that] make certain that nothing in the legislation will allow for rationing of care," and reflected the efforts of "six bipartisan working groups" that "met a combined 72 times" in 2009 as well as "30 bipartisan hearings on health care reform" since 2007, half of which were held in 2009 [HELP Committee document, 7/09]. And according to the Senate Finance Committee's September 22, 2009, document detailing the amendments to the Chairman's Mark considered, at least 13 amendments sponsored by one or more Republican senators were included in the bill.
this explains the differences in the two bills as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/politics/obamacare-repeal-of-health-law-republicans.html?_r=1
Posted:
#10
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
to answer this, i would say a few things. obamacare has been a net benefit for me. i can't imagine i'm the only one.
secondly, i'm not sure why many more people having insurance isn't a good thing, at least for them. if the question is, what have democrats done in healthcare that is good, i think that's a thing that is good. if the question is have they solved it, that doesn't solve it.
to answer this, i would say a few things. obamacare has been a net benefit for me. i can't imagine i'm the only one.
secondly, i'm not sure why many more people having insurance isn't a good thing, at least for them. if the question is, what have democrats done in healthcare that is good, i think that's a thing that is good. if the question is have they solved it, that doesn't solve it.
The ACA has worked for you and others, but to counter that Obamacare has been a significant negative for myself.
For every ying there's a yang.
I never suggested that more people having insurance is a negative.
I am of the opinion that everyone should have affordable health care.
The question is not what have Dems done with healthcare that is good, the question posed is what have they done that has worked?
Obamacare has not worked. Yes, there are some positives, but the fact remains that from a financial perspective it has been a failure.
Of course the left blames the right for this, and vice versa.
That's just politics as usual. Nothing new.
IMO, healthcare reform needs to start with the big Pharms, and work its way down through the entire system. If the starting costs don't lessen, neither party has a prayer of fixing healthcare.
Unfortunately, BOTH parties are beholden to big business. Pharmaceuticals are big business ... they are making the rules, not the imbeciles that we are all voting for.
bigreds daddy
Posted:
#11
The video is so embarrassing no GOP acolyte wants to comment on it.
The only counter is "Yeah wel OCare S UCKS!" to which Club and Sickness have eloquently responded to, saving me the trouble.
If you want to compare videos, show me the videos where a Democrat is speaking to HIS OWN CONSITUENTS and set the world on fire with perhaps one of the most asinine statements ever made (and not only that, but having the lead in of the fact that lack of health care does lead to death is "INDEFENSIBLE". LOL!
At this point you all have to go before your massive corporate giveaways in the face of your own consituents who voted for you keep over and die right in front of the podium.
Both parties are corporately owned but Dems will leave in place and preserve longstanding social welfare programs (and that's not "welfare" in the traditional sense). The GOP with Rip them right out from under you and mock you with lies they didn't.
Give me a fu coming break.
You are all fuc king gone 2020 and will get a nice hammering in 2018 (not a majority because of your gerrymandering but a big takeback).
See ya!!!
Now does any GOP supporter want to comment on the video??? Lol!
Posted:
#12
also, this seems to be illogical at best and borderline insanity at worst.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
Posted:
#14
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
also, this seems to be illogical at best and borderline insanity at worst.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
also, this seems to be illogical at best and borderline insanity at worst.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
You can't argue here. Show them their party is one of complete jack as ses and then just go cap a game.
Posted:
#15
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:
The ACA has worked for you and others, but to counter that Obamacare has been a significant negative for myself.
For every ying there's a yang.
I never suggested that more people having insurance is a negative.
I am of the opinion that everyone should have affordable health care.
The question is not what have Dems done with healthcare that is good, the question posed is what have they done that has worked?
Obamacare has not worked. Yes, there are some positives, but the fact remains that from a financial perspective it has been a failure.
Of course the left blames the right for this, and vice versa.
That's just politics as usual. Nothing new.
IMO, healthcare reform needs to start with the big Pharms, and work its way down through the entire system. If the starting costs don't lessen, neither party has a prayer of fixing healthcare.
Unfortunately, BOTH parties are beholden to big business. Pharmaceuticals are big business ... they are making the rules, not the imbeciles that we are all voting for.
i guess i misunderstood the question. obamacare works for some in some ways. but did it solve the problem? certainly not.
i don't understand this area enough to say exactly where blame goes but yes i certainly blame republicans more because i do know enough to know it's a massive problem and the onlt way to solve it is to have all parts of government working together to fix it. the opposite of that happened with obama in charge. now, that's no longer a problem, or at least it shouldn't be.
big companies are definitely a big part of the problem but i don't think we can rely on them to help. their job is to maximize profits for their owners/shareholders. maximizing profits and making sure all citizens get the proper healthcare they need are not compatible positions. the government needs to step in or companies will keep doing what they've always done.
Posted:
#16
Quote Originally Posted by sicknesscity:
Well, the Republicans didn't want Obamacare to work and have done everything in almost all of the states they govern to prevent its implementation to the fullest, along with attempting to block the execution of it in the courts. We don't really know how successful it might have been because Republicans wanted it to fail. They never even wanted to discuss with the Democrats with specific things they believe may have made Obamacare work better. Maybe that might have been useful.
Well, the Republicans didn't want Obamacare to work and have done everything in almost all of the states they govern to prevent its implementation to the fullest, along with attempting to block the execution of it in the courts. We don't really know how successful it might have been because Republicans wanted it to fail. They never even wanted to discuss with the Democrats with specific things they believe may have made Obamacare work better. Maybe that might have been useful.
As in my previous post, the dems blame the repubs, and vice versa.
This goes for everything and anything. While there might be a little merit in what you wrote, it is still a cop out.
IMO the ACA was going to fail regardless of what the republicans did.
Your comment that the repubs didn't want to discuss with the dems ways to make Obamacare better is exactly what is happening now, only the roles are reversed.
The republican way is not a road to ruin, nor is the democratic way ... it is our political system that is messed up. (and of course the MSM which is making many of you hysterical)
One side blames the other side, there is nothing new to this as it relates to politics ... but when the left starts screaming about all the innocent babies that will die because of republicans, everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath.
The last I checked, republicans were not against healthy babies
bigreds daddy
Posted:
#17
i just watched the video. there 's a dude in your general discussion forum arguing the same thing, or something similar. it might actually be the same person.
also, i posted this in another thread, but you guys don't have a problem with this?
https://www.vox.com/2017/4/25/15429982/gop-exemption-ahca-amendment
basically, these guys are telling us obamacare is the worst thing ever but they create an amendment making sure they get to keep it. now, they are saying they are going to get rid of this amendment, but just the fact that they did it has to tell you something. this thing is the worst thing ever, but we are going to write an amendment making sure we get to keep it even though we know we are going to get blasted for it in the media. because it's just that good, i mean terrible, but we like it.
now, i understand that congress and staff keeping the benefit of obamacare doesn't come with the cost and logistical issues of everyone in the country having it, but it's hard for reasonable people to believe obamacare is so bad when congress goes out of its way to keep at least part of it for themselves.
also, i posted this in another thread, but you guys don't have a problem with this?
https://www.vox.com/2017/4/25/15429982/gop-exemption-ahca-amendment
basically, these guys are telling us obamacare is the worst thing ever but they create an amendment making sure they get to keep it. now, they are saying they are going to get rid of this amendment, but just the fact that they did it has to tell you something. this thing is the worst thing ever, but we are going to write an amendment making sure we get to keep it even though we know we are going to get blasted for it in the media. because it's just that good, i mean terrible, but we like it.
now, i understand that congress and staff keeping the benefit of obamacare doesn't come with the cost and logistical issues of everyone in the country having it, but it's hard for reasonable people to believe obamacare is so bad when congress goes out of its way to keep at least part of it for themselves.
Posted:
#18
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:
You can't argue here. Show them their party is one of complete jack as ses and then just go cap a game.
You can't argue here. Show them their party is one of complete jack as ses and then just go cap a game.Ahh yes, spoken as the man blinded by bias that you are.
"your party wants the poor to perish, while my party wants what is best for all"
It matters not which party you support, when this is your viewpoint, your viewpoint is born from ignorance.
bigreds daddy
Posted:
#19
Your comment that the repubs didn't want to discuss with the dems ways
to make Obamacare better is exactly what is happening now, only the
roles are reversed.
this is true but i don't think it matters. republicans are in complete control of the process to create and pass laws. democrats didn't want anything to do with gorsuch but we saw how much that mattered. they should be able to do whatever they want. the question is do they have any idea what they are doing.
this is true but i don't think it matters. republicans are in complete control of the process to create and pass laws. democrats didn't want anything to do with gorsuch but we saw how much that mattered. they should be able to do whatever they want. the question is do they have any idea what they are doing.
Posted:
#20
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
also, this seems to be illogical at best and borderline insanity at worst.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
also, this seems to be illogical at best and borderline insanity at worst.
Obamacare didn't fail because Republicans wanted it to fail. It failed because Democrats wanted it to fail and when it did, Hillary would be president
so you're saying democrats went through that entire process for more than a year (involving republicans who added various amendments) and the entire purpose of it all was to make it fail to help hillary?
the idea being- democrats are going to spend all this time, energy and political capital creating a healthcare plan that intentionally fails and makes matters worse so people will vote democrat in 2016? that's not insane??
Yes, its kinda like sending assault rifles into Mexico so they make it into the hands of the cartels and end up killing Americans so as to change American Sentiment towards the second amendment.
You are a lawyer...you should know better than to take EVERYTHING at face value.
How else would Obama and Hillary get the sentiment to change about One Payer systems? He's been saying he is a proponent of it since the early 2000s.
Posted:
#21
Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Jorgan:
As in my previous post, the dems blame the repubs, and vice versa.
This goes for everything and anything. While there might be a little merit in what you wrote, it is still a cop out.
IMO the ACA was going to fail regardless of what the republicans did.
Your comment that the repubs didn't want to discuss with the dems ways to make Obamacare better is exactly what is happening now, only the roles are reversed.
The republican way is not a road to ruin, nor is the democratic way ... it is our political system that is messed up. (and of course the MSM which is making many of you hysterical)
One side blames the other side, there is nothing new to this as it relates to politics ... but when the left starts screaming about all the innocent babies that will die because of republicans, everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath.
The last I checked, republicans were not against healthy babies
Well, we agree on the pharmaceutical issue and that most of these politicans aren't doing anything to fix the costs. I believe the Democrats have probably decided that if the Republicans didn't want to help them before, they're going to do the same thing now and let the Republicans deal with it. It's not mature but they'd rather make political gains than have Trump and the Republicans be able to take credit for a success.
Posted:
#22
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
big companies are definitely a big part of the problem but i don't think we can rely on them to help. their job is to maximize profits for their owners/shareholders. maximizing profits and making sure all citizens get the proper healthcare they need are not compatible positions. the government needs to step in or companies will keep doing what they've always done.
big companies are definitely a big part of the problem but i don't think we can rely on them to help. their job is to maximize profits for their owners/shareholders. maximizing profits and making sure all citizens get the proper healthcare they need are not compatible positions. the government needs to step in or companies will keep doing what they've always done.
CD, I'm not the brightest guy here (but probably in the top 1% 
)
)but I think I have the root of the problem figured out.
The problem is not Obamacare, nor Trumpcare, nor is it liberal or conservative, right or left, or anything else party related.
The main issue is big business is making the decisions, and we have gotten to this point because ALL politicians sold out the american people. This has happened over generations and generations. To fix it we need politicians to change/enact laws ... those same politicians who won't change/enact laws because they work for big business.
Now we could delve into which party is more of a cuckold to big business, but that just gets us back to each side pointing fingers at the other. Both parties are immensely guilty in this regard.
As an analogy, if one man kills 8 people and another man kills 10 people, they are both equally guilty of being murderers.
Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty as it relates to political misgivings.
bigreds daddy
Posted:
#23
Quote Originally Posted by wordsmyth:
Yes, its kinda like sending assault rifles into Mexico so they make it into the hands of the cartels and end up killing Americans so as to change American Sentiment towards the second amendment.
You are a lawyer...you should know better than to take EVERYTHING at face value.
How else would Obama and Hillary get the sentiment to change about One Payer systems? He's been saying he is a proponent of it since the early 2000s.
Yes, its kinda like sending assault rifles into Mexico so they make it into the hands of the cartels and end up killing Americans so as to change American Sentiment towards the second amendment.
You are a lawyer...you should know better than to take EVERYTHING at face value.
How else would Obama and Hillary get the sentiment to change about One Payer systems? He's been saying he is a proponent of it since the early 2000s.
i can buy the idea that politicians want to get to a single payer system at some point but obamacare was the largest legislation we've had in a while and the biggest thing that happened during obama's 8 years. saying he intended it to be a failure seems odd. a stepping stone maybe.
Posted:
#24
Quote Originally Posted by sicknesscity:
Well, we agree on the pharmaceutical issue and that most of these politicans aren't doing anything to fix the costs. I believe the Democrats have probably decided that if the Republicans didn't want to help them before, they're going to do the same thing now and let the Republicans deal with it. It's not mature but they'd rather make political gains than have Trump and the Republicans be able to take credit for a success.
Well, we agree on the pharmaceutical issue and that most of these politicans aren't doing anything to fix the costs. I believe the Democrats have probably decided that if the Republicans didn't want to help them before, they're going to do the same thing now and let the Republicans deal with it. It's not mature but they'd rather make political gains than have Trump and the Republicans be able to take credit for a success.
Very true
bigreds daddy
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