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    All Forums | Politics

    EPA head dumbfounded by climate analysis.

    «First Previous 12
    dl36
    thirdperson
    Raiders22
    djbrow
    nature1970
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    dl36
    dl36
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    Posted: May. 16, 2016 - 2:33 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    According to wikipedia, 97% of scientists agree that human activity contributes to global warming especially climate experts.  In 2015, 195 countries agree to limit greenhouse gas emissions in United Nations conference.

    Yes I don't think anyone in their right mind would be ignorant to the facts to the scientific evidence.  The issue is what do we do about it, both on a local and global level.  That's the real debate.

    This thread is a good example that ignorance often needs to be a product of and supported by "group think".  The fear of science is a funny theme.  But im sure there those who said the earth was flat and the center of the universe.   The difference is that they did not have the technology to post the ignorance on the Internet to make fools of themselves.

    It's hard to discern who to take seriously on this thread considering reputations.  And who actually believes what they are saying and who is just rushing in to defend a prescribed view.

    Funny stuff either way.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    According to wikipedia, 97% of scientists agree that human activity contributes to global warming especially climate experts.  In 2015, 195 countries agree to limit greenhouse gas emissions in United Nations conference.

    Yes I don't think anyone in their right mind would be ignorant to the facts to the scientific evidence.  The issue is what do we do about it, both on a local and global level.  That's the real debate.

    This thread is a good example that ignorance often needs to be a product of and supported by "group think".  The fear of science is a funny theme.  But im sure there those who said the earth was flat and the center of the universe.   The difference is that they did not have the technology to post the ignorance on the Internet to make fools of themselves.

    It's hard to discern who to take seriously on this thread considering reputations.  And who actually believes what they are saying and who is just rushing in to defend a prescribed view.

    Funny stuff either way.  
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: May. 16, 2016 - 2:52 PM ET #27

    Mostly non-experts deny global warming exists. Many myths have been debunked by skepticalscience and others. Continued greenhouse effect has been confirmed by empirical evidence from worldwide measurements over standard 30-year intervals of temperatures, sea level, glacier, tree line, species migration, less energy escaping into space, etc.  

    Long term climate is different from temporary weather variations. Climate models are built to estimate broad trends rather than rare events. Since 1990, models successfully reproduced temperatures globally for air, land and sea. 

    People may not notice global warming because 90% goes into oceans while 3% heat air and land. Also negative impacts of warming on agriculture, health and environment outweigh any positives.
    Reply
    Mostly non-experts deny global warming exists. Many myths have been debunked by skepticalscience and others. Continued greenhouse effect has been confirmed by empirical evidence from worldwide measurements over standard 30-year intervals of temperatures, sea level, glacier, tree line, species migration, less energy escaping into space, etc.  

    Long term climate is different from temporary weather variations. Climate models are built to estimate broad trends rather than rare events. Since 1990, models successfully reproduced temperatures globally for air, land and sea. 

    People may not notice global warming because 90% goes into oceans while 3% heat air and land. Also negative impacts of warming on agriculture, health and environment outweigh any positives.
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: May. 16, 2016 - 3:34 PM ET #28

    Quote Originally Posted by DogbiteWilliams:

    https://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/what-scientists-say/are-polar-bear-populations-booming

    There was an increase in the polar bear population due to limits set on mankind's predatory behavior.  The future decline in habitat area will have devastating consequences.
    'Will have' ?  So far this is another example of exaggerating and presumption to fit the agenda. How is this even assumed?  Every few degrees? They are carnivores. They will eat more animals that wander into the warmer climates.  You could easily assume they would do better in warmer weather --- if that would fit the agenda.  Do the alarmist assume polar bears do better the colder it gets?  Would they do better if the climate got more frigid and food became scarce?  Why is it assumed that this one particular time in the earths history has the ideal temperature for polar bears?  What if it is the ideal temp for bears?  But warmer is actually better for 90% of other species?  Is that okay?  Or do we care more for the bears than all other animals?  We simply don't even know the answer to that.  We presume and we use it because it fits the current agenda is all. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by DogbiteWilliams:

    https://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/what-scientists-say/are-polar-bear-populations-booming

    There was an increase in the polar bear population due to limits set on mankind's predatory behavior.  The future decline in habitat area will have devastating consequences.
    'Will have' ?  So far this is another example of exaggerating and presumption to fit the agenda. How is this even assumed?  Every few degrees? They are carnivores. They will eat more animals that wander into the warmer climates.  You could easily assume they would do better in warmer weather --- if that would fit the agenda.  Do the alarmist assume polar bears do better the colder it gets?  Would they do better if the climate got more frigid and food became scarce?  Why is it assumed that this one particular time in the earths history has the ideal temperature for polar bears?  What if it is the ideal temp for bears?  But warmer is actually better for 90% of other species?  Is that okay?  Or do we care more for the bears than all other animals?  We simply don't even know the answer to that.  We presume and we use it because it fits the current agenda is all. 
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: May. 16, 2016 - 3:44 PM ET #29

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Mostly non-experts deny global warming exists. Many myths have been debunked by skepticalscience and others. Continued greenhouse effect has been confirmed by empirical evidence from worldwide measurements over standard 30-year intervals of temperatures, sea level, glacier, tree line, species migration, less energy escaping into space, etc.  

    Long term climate is different from temporary weather variations. Climate models are built to estimate broad trends rather than rare events. Since 1990, models successfully reproduced temperatures globally for air, land and sea. 

    People may not notice global warming because 90% goes into oceans while 3% heat air and land. Also negative impacts of warming on agriculture, health and environment outweigh any positives.
    I simply say, please research more on the other side. Please do this with an open mind. Sure, the current anomaly is blamed on the alarmists lack of foresight on exactly how much of the warming is held by the oceans.  So ---now --- they are having to redo the models to account for this. And it always begs the question of how they didn't account for this more to start with?  The ocean is huge!  The sun is enormous!  Two of the variables that have much, much, much more to do with fluctuation that CO2. 
    There are many scientists and writings on the other side with very good research.  It is just the current media state of the fear and liberal agenda selling their point of view is so much more prevalent. The models have not been that accurate --- that is the whole point of the thread here. So, now they will find something else to add to the model or tweak to make them come out the way they want.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    Mostly non-experts deny global warming exists. Many myths have been debunked by skepticalscience and others. Continued greenhouse effect has been confirmed by empirical evidence from worldwide measurements over standard 30-year intervals of temperatures, sea level, glacier, tree line, species migration, less energy escaping into space, etc.  

    Long term climate is different from temporary weather variations. Climate models are built to estimate broad trends rather than rare events. Since 1990, models successfully reproduced temperatures globally for air, land and sea. 

    People may not notice global warming because 90% goes into oceans while 3% heat air and land. Also negative impacts of warming on agriculture, health and environment outweigh any positives.
    I simply say, please research more on the other side. Please do this with an open mind. Sure, the current anomaly is blamed on the alarmists lack of foresight on exactly how much of the warming is held by the oceans.  So ---now --- they are having to redo the models to account for this. And it always begs the question of how they didn't account for this more to start with?  The ocean is huge!  The sun is enormous!  Two of the variables that have much, much, much more to do with fluctuation that CO2. 
    There are many scientists and writings on the other side with very good research.  It is just the current media state of the fear and liberal agenda selling their point of view is so much more prevalent. The models have not been that accurate --- that is the whole point of the thread here. So, now they will find something else to add to the model or tweak to make them come out the way they want.  
     
    djbrow
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    Posted: May. 16, 2016 - 4:28 PM ET #30

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    I simply say, please research more on the other side. Please do this with an open mind. 

    Why are you asking someone else to do something you would never do? 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

    I simply say, please research more on the other side. Please do this with an open mind. 

    Why are you asking someone else to do something you would never do? 
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: May. 18, 2016 - 8:03 PM ET #31

    Furthermore, academies of science in 80 nations agreed on global warming.  Top experts tend to agree on global warming more than lesser experts.  There is a myth that climate models are unreliable.  Actually, models have done a good job according to phys.org and science daily. 

    However according to Techinsider, climate scientists examined 38 studies that deny global warming but found major flaws.  Deniers cherry-picked data, ignored basic science and contradicted each other.


    Reply
    Furthermore, academies of science in 80 nations agreed on global warming.  Top experts tend to agree on global warming more than lesser experts.  There is a myth that climate models are unreliable.  Actually, models have done a good job according to phys.org and science daily. 

    However according to Techinsider, climate scientists examined 38 studies that deny global warming but found major flaws.  Deniers cherry-picked data, ignored basic science and contradicted each other.


     
    nature1970
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    Posted: May. 18, 2016 - 10:12 PM ET #32

    So it warms. It has before it is again Greenland will be green again.
    So. When this happened in 1000 ad and Leif ericjkoson of Norway planted grapes in new vvinyard and planted crops in Greenland to harvest for his group back to Norway the polar bear err ice bear didn't die off. This natural warming or cooling is sunn made if the sun gets warmer earth gets warmer and the Mars ice melts when the sun gets cooler we get cooler. Stop checking our weather and start to focus on what that big bright nuclear fusion object does.

    That being said with no real way to change this warming up to Jurassic times. So no blame ggaame what are we the people of the marble do to prevent the out come say it so in so fault or start building tidal damns such as the Dutch did in Netherlands. Or start to think of canals and leveies as the citizens of Venice did or we going to blame others in a non agreement endless CO itee debate and fall as the cities of Greece into the mederteranian. Who fault really it's the sun's fault so what cha going to do?
    Reply
    So it warms. It has before it is again Greenland will be green again.
    So. When this happened in 1000 ad and Leif ericjkoson of Norway planted grapes in new vvinyard and planted crops in Greenland to harvest for his group back to Norway the polar bear err ice bear didn't die off. This natural warming or cooling is sunn made if the sun gets warmer earth gets warmer and the Mars ice melts when the sun gets cooler we get cooler. Stop checking our weather and start to focus on what that big bright nuclear fusion object does.

    That being said with no real way to change this warming up to Jurassic times. So no blame ggaame what are we the people of the marble do to prevent the out come say it so in so fault or start building tidal damns such as the Dutch did in Netherlands. Or start to think of canals and leveies as the citizens of Venice did or we going to blame others in a non agreement endless CO itee debate and fall as the cities of Greece into the mederteranian. Who fault really it's the sun's fault so what cha going to do?
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: May. 18, 2016 - 10:16 PM ET #33

    If you all start the nonsense of what will it cost. Does it freaking matter we have a bank that makes money using digits on a computer screen no clam shells needed. We have a credit card that has no limit. And we never really ever need to square with so money is to the USA no object.
    Reply
    If you all start the nonsense of what will it cost. Does it freaking matter we have a bank that makes money using digits on a computer screen no clam shells needed. We have a credit card that has no limit. And we never really ever need to square with so money is to the USA no object.
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: May. 18, 2016 - 10:46 PM ET #34

    And crickets well I'll leave y'all be for a spell maybe I don't have to be last word here and one of you fine gentlemen like to debate the heat of or big bright fusion reactor in the sky and it's arrest on this beautiful marble in his heavens we call earth.
    Reply
    And crickets well I'll leave y'all be for a spell maybe I don't have to be last word here and one of you fine gentlemen like to debate the heat of or big bright fusion reactor in the sky and it's arrest on this beautiful marble in his heavens we call earth.
     
    mainman11111
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    Posted: May. 20, 2016 - 5:17 AM ET #35

    most people are just too understand
    Reply
    most people are just too understand
     
    nature1970
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    Posted: May. 20, 2016 - 10:57 AM ET #36

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:

    anyone here know why oil is deep in the ground? anyone here know why our bones are on the inside not outside?
    earth crust folded. Folded the crust was driven up into spikes of mountain ranges it the suurcumbed to gravity and flopped over burying the Eco system underneath the rock. This prehistoric eco system became the oil. We drill for under the sea. Gulf oil has another story. A large asteroid hit near the yucan tan pennisula and drove this region do the ddeep. The remaining balance of this folded and left the oil beneath the sea floor. These events happened in a very short window only thing in the Bible to summarize this was I will make mountains oceans and oceans mountains.

    As for our internal bone structure we are not incects they have an exoskeleton..
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:

    anyone here know why oil is deep in the ground? anyone here know why our bones are on the inside not outside?
    earth crust folded. Folded the crust was driven up into spikes of mountain ranges it the suurcumbed to gravity and flopped over burying the Eco system underneath the rock. This prehistoric eco system became the oil. We drill for under the sea. Gulf oil has another story. A large asteroid hit near the yucan tan pennisula and drove this region do the ddeep. The remaining balance of this folded and left the oil beneath the sea floor. These events happened in a very short window only thing in the Bible to summarize this was I will make mountains oceans and oceans mountains.

    As for our internal bone structure we are not incects they have an exoskeleton..
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: May. 20, 2016 - 7:29 PM ET #37

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:

    most people are just too understand


    Man mainman you really need to assimilate........
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:

    most people are just too understand


    Man mainman you really need to assimilate........
     
    bowlslit
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    Posted: May. 29, 2016 - 12:58 AM ET #38

    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/white-house-global-warming-climate-change-judge/2016/05/10/id/728098/

    The Obama administration was handed a defeat in court for the third time this year in a case involving the Freedom of Information Act, when a federal judge ruled the White House showed bad faith in holding back data about global warming to an organization seeking it, The Washington Times reports. 

     
    Judge Amit Mehta granted legal discovery in a case brought by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, an NGO that seeks to advance the principles of limited government, free enterprise, and individual liberty.

    The NGO said the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy refused to release documents to back up director John Holdren's claim that global warming was making winters colder, a statement refuted by most scientists.

    After the government agency initially said it could not find any such documents, it changed its story several times in an attempt to avoid making them public as required by law.
    Mehta wrote in his ruling, 
    "At some point, the government's inconsistent representations about the scope and completeness of its searches must give way to the truth-seeking function of the adversarial process, including the tools available through discovery. This case has crossed that threshold." 

     



    Hmmm so the data didn't support claims for global warming....you could surely bet that if the data supported the claims they would've been dropping leaflets out of C 130's.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

    https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/white-house-global-warming-climate-change-judge/2016/05/10/id/728098/

    The Obama administration was handed a defeat in court for the third time this year in a case involving the Freedom of Information Act, when a federal judge ruled the White House showed bad faith in holding back data about global warming to an organization seeking it, The Washington Times reports. 

     
    Judge Amit Mehta granted legal discovery in a case brought by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, an NGO that seeks to advance the principles of limited government, free enterprise, and individual liberty.

    The NGO said the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy refused to release documents to back up director John Holdren's claim that global warming was making winters colder, a statement refuted by most scientists.

    After the government agency initially said it could not find any such documents, it changed its story several times in an attempt to avoid making them public as required by law.
    Mehta wrote in his ruling, 
    "At some point, the government's inconsistent representations about the scope and completeness of its searches must give way to the truth-seeking function of the adversarial process, including the tools available through discovery. This case has crossed that threshold." 

     



    Hmmm so the data didn't support claims for global warming....you could surely bet that if the data supported the claims they would've been dropping leaflets out of C 130's.
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: May. 29, 2016 - 10:26 AM ET #39

    No report doesn't disprove climate change.  Previously, Bush and Obama administrations - governments that deny or recognize climate change have missed deadlines to submit reports required every 4 years since 1990.

    According to wikipedia, the Competitive Enterprise Institute mislead the public about global warming and misrepresent research to inflate claims.
    Reply
    No report doesn't disprove climate change.  Previously, Bush and Obama administrations - governments that deny or recognize climate change have missed deadlines to submit reports required every 4 years since 1990.

    According to wikipedia, the Competitive Enterprise Institute mislead the public about global warming and misrepresent research to inflate claims.
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: May. 29, 2016 - 3:15 PM ET #40

    I find very few people who think the climate is not changing..but many that do not believe the cause is made by humans...

    I have not seen any proof that global warming aka., climate change aka.,global climate change is directly caused by anthropogenic activity...but rather caused by the earths orbital pattern around the sun and the tilt of the earths axis...
    Reply
    I find very few people who think the climate is not changing..but many that do not believe the cause is made by humans...

    I have not seen any proof that global warming aka., climate change aka.,global climate change is directly caused by anthropogenic activity...but rather caused by the earths orbital pattern around the sun and the tilt of the earths axis...
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: May. 29, 2016 - 7:26 PM ET #41

    The sun isn't causing global warming according to United Nations Intergovernmental Panel for climate change.  For decades, satellites show the sun has been cooler while global temperatures have increased. 

    If the sun is the cause, then the whole atmosphere should be warmer.  Instead there is a greenhouse effect where heat is trapped to warm lower atmophere and less heat escapes which cools upper stratosphere.
    Reply
    The sun isn't causing global warming according to United Nations Intergovernmental Panel for climate change.  For decades, satellites show the sun has been cooler while global temperatures have increased. 

    If the sun is the cause, then the whole atmosphere should be warmer.  Instead there is a greenhouse effect where heat is trapped to warm lower atmophere and less heat escapes which cools upper stratosphere.
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: May. 29, 2016 - 11:45 PM ET #42

    It is way more complicated than that. Surely we don't completely understand all of the factors. We as, folks with limited knowledge, will always try to find a simple answer one way or the other. It is not just man-made pollution or sun warmth. It can be the ultra-violet rays and cloud cover connection. It can be a compensation factor with the fluctuation in the sun temperature causing the clouds to react the way they do --- almost as a fail safe against too much cooling. It can be the lagging effect of the sun cooling and warming.  Almost how the temperatures are way warmer even as the days are shorter during the season and cooler as the days get longer. Obviously it takes time to catch up to the actual tilt of the earth during the seasons. So there may be some of that with the sun also. So you certainly cannot dismiss it altogether. Along with the lagging effect of the oceans warming and cooling along with this. It is just too simple to say this or that is a direct cause --- when way too many factors go into it. 
    These two links touch on some of this: 

    https://wakeup-world.com/2011/09/02/c-e-r-n-scientific-study-concludes-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-sun/

    https://m.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/SORCE/sorce_04.php
    Reply
    It is way more complicated than that. Surely we don't completely understand all of the factors. We as, folks with limited knowledge, will always try to find a simple answer one way or the other. It is not just man-made pollution or sun warmth. It can be the ultra-violet rays and cloud cover connection. It can be a compensation factor with the fluctuation in the sun temperature causing the clouds to react the way they do --- almost as a fail safe against too much cooling. It can be the lagging effect of the sun cooling and warming.  Almost how the temperatures are way warmer even as the days are shorter during the season and cooler as the days get longer. Obviously it takes time to catch up to the actual tilt of the earth during the seasons. So there may be some of that with the sun also. So you certainly cannot dismiss it altogether. Along with the lagging effect of the oceans warming and cooling along with this. It is just too simple to say this or that is a direct cause --- when way too many factors go into it. 
    These two links touch on some of this: 

    https://wakeup-world.com/2011/09/02/c-e-r-n-scientific-study-concludes-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-sun/

    https://m.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/SORCE/sorce_04.php
     
    thirdperson
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 2:09 AM ET #43

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:



    https://wakeup-world.com/2011/09/02/c-e-r-n-scientific-study-concludes-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-sun/


    CERN is a european organization for nuclear research.  They are not climate scientists. Their director admits that the experiment says nothing about effect of cosmic rays on clouds and climate.  Their study is denounced by UN intergovernmental panel on climate change.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:



    https://wakeup-world.com/2011/09/02/c-e-r-n-scientific-study-concludes-global-warming-is-caused-by-the-sun/


    CERN is a european organization for nuclear research.  They are not climate scientists. Their director admits that the experiment says nothing about effect of cosmic rays on clouds and climate.  Their study is denounced by UN intergovernmental panel on climate change.
     
    Raiders22
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 5:13 AM ET #44

    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    CERN is a european organization for nuclear research.  They are not climate scientists. Their director admits that the experiment says nothing about effect of cosmic rays on clouds and climate.  Their study is denounced by UN intergovernmental panel on climate change.
    Of course the panel denounces it. Why wouldn't they?  It goes against their agenda. That was not the point. It is a study by scientists On cosmic ray effect on clouds.  You can't just dismiss the study because they aren't from a group that you prefer.  They are legitimate scientists that did a legitimate study is all I'm saying. Read up on the study and what other peers said about it is all.  I'm just pointing out that sun, oceans, clouds, etc also play a huge factor in climate.  It is not as clear cut and dry as some people would have you believe. It is not like there wasn't climate change in pre-industrial times. So, quite obviously, there are other factors.  That is my point. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdperson:

    CERN is a european organization for nuclear research.  They are not climate scientists. Their director admits that the experiment says nothing about effect of cosmic rays on clouds and climate.  Their study is denounced by UN intergovernmental panel on climate change.
    Of course the panel denounces it. Why wouldn't they?  It goes against their agenda. That was not the point. It is a study by scientists On cosmic ray effect on clouds.  You can't just dismiss the study because they aren't from a group that you prefer.  They are legitimate scientists that did a legitimate study is all I'm saying. Read up on the study and what other peers said about it is all.  I'm just pointing out that sun, oceans, clouds, etc also play a huge factor in climate.  It is not as clear cut and dry as some people would have you believe. It is not like there wasn't climate change in pre-industrial times. So, quite obviously, there are other factors.  That is my point. 
     
    mainman11111
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 11:27 AM ET #45

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    I find very few people who think the climate is not changing..but many that do not believe the cause is made by humans...

    I have not seen any proof that global warming aka., climate change aka.,global climate change is directly caused by anthropogenic activity...but rather caused by the earths orbital pattern around the sun and the tilt of the earths axis...


    you do not get out much thats why. 23000 post?

    the coral reef is dying at a fast pace
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

    I find very few people who think the climate is not changing..but many that do not believe the cause is made by humans...

    I have not seen any proof that global warming aka., climate change aka.,global climate change is directly caused by anthropogenic activity...but rather caused by the earths orbital pattern around the sun and the tilt of the earths axis...


    you do not get out much thats why. 23000 post?

    the coral reef is dying at a fast pace
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 12:55 PM ET #46

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:



    the coral reef is dying at a fast pace



    Prospect,

     The coral reef dying is caused in part by coral bleaching from El Nino..

    Also sedimentation from dredging, land-based pollution from discharge of industrial waste, domestic waste and agricultural runoff are key threats that impact coral reefs. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by mainman11111:



    the coral reef is dying at a fast pace



    Prospect,

     The coral reef dying is caused in part by coral bleaching from El Nino..

    Also sedimentation from dredging, land-based pollution from discharge of industrial waste, domestic waste and agricultural runoff are key threats that impact coral reefs. 
     
    SportsFan9698
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 5:29 PM ET #47

    I see dl got boxed... interesting lol I wonder what he did?

    maybe there is a chance for some justice on this forum... I will try to keep the faith!
    Reply
    I see dl got boxed... interesting lol I wonder what he did?

    maybe there is a chance for some justice on this forum... I will try to keep the faith!
     
     
    SarasotaSlim
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    Posted: May. 30, 2016 - 5:44 PM ET #48

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan9698:

    I see dl got boxed... interesting lol I wonder what he did?

    maybe there is a chance for some justice on this forum... I will try to keep the faith!


    dl36 stepped over the line ....
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SportsFan9698:

    I see dl got boxed... interesting lol I wonder what he did?

    maybe there is a chance for some justice on this forum... I will try to keep the faith!


    dl36 stepped over the line ....
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